http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html

How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo

What with all the vegetarians, vegans and flexitarians around, you might
be surprised to learn that we now consume more animal protein than ever:
200 pounds per person in 2000, up some 40 pounds since the backyard
barbecues of the 1950s. But no longer do we gorge on porterhouses, racks
of lamb, pork roasts or spareribs. Today, much of the animal protein we
eat has been stripped from the bone, doctored with chemicals and
reformed into breakfast patties, lunch nuggets and microwaveable entrees.

Most people would attribute this shift to our squeamishness about
slaughtering, butchering and preparing meat, and to our puerile taste buds.

But consumer preferences are not what led supermarkets to carry
refashioned animal tissue. The Ur-culprit here is the U.S. Army, which
since the early 20th century has been on a relentless quest to reduce
the cost of the meat it feeds soldiers. Demand, in this story, followed
supply.

For centuries, having a bone in our dinner had been an insurance policy
€” an indispensable feature for quick and easy identification of the
animal and body part in question, as well as a vital clue as to its
overall fitness for consumption. Only the poor gnawed on unrecognizable
remnants, mostly in stews and soups.

Then came World War I. The military and its meatpacking friends in
Chicago suddenly found that they needed to supply 4.7 million troops
with a pound of protein a day. Obviously it couldn't send whole
carcasses overseas €” not in such large quantities. Desperate to keep
supplies running, the Army's Quartermaster Corps asked itself: Could it
go against humankind's antipathy to barrels of unidentifiable chunks and
scraps, long disdained as containing tainted meat?

In 1918, the Army €” with the help of Lt. Jay Hormel (doesn't that name
sound familiar?) €” set up a beef processing plant and distribution
system centered in Chicago. The results caused Army bigwigs to do a
little jig: a quarter-carcass weighed 25% less without its bones, fat
and cartilage. When frozen into a rectangular solid, wrapped in burlap
and waxed paper, and stacked, it occupied 60% less space on crowded
trains and ships.

By World War II, the Chicago meatpacking companies Armour and Swift had
gotten in on the act, working with the Navy Veterinary Department to
invent more efficient deboning techniques, sort the meat by class and
flash freeze the flesh so that it maintained a fresh appearance and texture.
Thanks to the military, we no longer demand bodily evidence as to the
origins and wholesomeness of our dinner. -

Crowed the War Department in 1946: "Military advances in beef processing
have made the beef ration a reality almost everywhere our present global
Army may be. The Army has put boneless beef €” frozen fresh and packed €¦
on a basis where further experimentation is not necessary. It is now
ready for civilian use."

Not quite.

In fact, it took the rise of the supermarket, and the replacement of the
old meatpacking business model (traditional butchery by tradesmen in
cities along train lines) with a new one (assembly-line butchery by
unskilled workers near rural feedlots along the federal highway system)
before civilians accepted the economic and practical benefits of boxed,
boneless meat. From 1963 to 2002, the percentage of boxed beef shipped
from the nation's largest slaughterhouses increased from less than 10%
to 60% of total sales, and now accounts for more than 90% of the beef
sold in supermarkets.

The military didn't stop with deboning. As soon as boxed meat was widely
available, Army brass set itself the modest goal of reducing the meat
bill 60%. It would buy the cheapest parts and figure out a way to make
them look and taste like the more desirable whole-muscle cuts.

Military food scientists went into the laboratory and began to fiddle,
as well as to contract with universities and industry for outside
research. They and their collaborators improved meat flaking equipment,
invented meat glue (a mixture of meat ooze, salt and other chemicals),
and discovered that adding phosphate improved juiciness, texture and
flavor. Together, these developments allowed them to paste together bits
and scraps that could then be molded into a chop, cutlet or steak
tasting roughly like the real thing.

By 1972, the Army's fake-muscle-cuts project had successfully
manufactured pilot runs of grill steaks, Swiss steaks, minute steaks and
breakfast steaks. It started serving the troops restructured veal
cutlets in 1976, followed by lamb and pork chops and, somewhat later,
beefsteaks. Soon, these Frankenfoods were standard fare in the MRE
(Meal, Ready to Eat).

Once the military had accomplished its goal, it stepped back, letting
the private sector replace the government as the chief promoter and
developer of restructured meat, its appetite whetted by the value-added
proposition of making something from practically nothing.

University and industry food science departments looked for ways to
further reduce manufacturing costs. This included hot deboning (while
the corpse is still steaming), de-sinewing, mechanical separation
(pushing a carcass through a sieve), blending fat and trim into protein
"sludge," and collection of plasma for use as a plumper. Items produced
using these exotic techniques debuted in fast-food restaurants, and
appeared a bit later in the frozen foods section and then finally in the
supermarket refrigerator case.

Consumption of restructured meat products exploded in the 1990s and the
early years of the 2000s, so much so that in 1997, the Census Bureau had
to add a new industry code €” nonpoultry meat processing €” which that
year generated $24 billion in sales. By 2007, it accounted for $37 billion.

Americans began the 20th century clinging to their T-bones and prime
ribs. But, thanks to the military, we no longer demand bodily evidence
as to the origins and wholesomeness of our dinner. We have even learned
to prefer eating animals in the forms pioneered by the Army: boneless
and restructured. Bon appetit, America.

Anastacia Marx de Salcedo is the author of "Combat-Ready Kitchen: How
the U.S. Military Shaped the Way You Eat."

"Travis McGee" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
>
> How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
> By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo

<read but snipped>

I suspect that the meat consumption went up when people started cutting back
on the carbs. I eat some meat now. Not a lot. I ate little to none for
many years. I might have consumed some animal products like lard in some
dish or chicken broth in Mexican rice, but I didn't eat much at all in terms
of out and out meat. Perhaps maybe once or twice a year at a restaurant or
some such thing.

"Travis McGee" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
>
> How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
> By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo
>
> What with all the vegetarians, vegans and flexitarians around, you might
> be surprised to learn that we now consume more animal protein than ever:
> 200 pounds per person in 2000, up some 40 pounds since the backyard
> barbecues of the 1950s. But no longer do we gorge on porterhouses, racks
> of lamb, pork roasts or spareribs. Today, much of the animal protein we
> eat has been stripped from the bone, doctored with chemicals and reformed
> into breakfast patties, lunch nuggets and microwaveable entrees.
>
> Most people would attribute this shift to our squeamishness about
> slaughtering, butchering and preparing meat, and to our puerile taste
> buds.
>
> But consumer preferences are not what led supermarkets to carry
> refashioned animal tissue. The Ur-culprit here is the U.S. Army, which
> since the early 20th century has been on a relentless quest to reduce the
> cost of the meat it feeds soldiers. Demand, in this story, followed
> supply.
>
> For centuries, having a bone in our dinner had been an insurance policy -
> an indispensable feature for quick and easy identification of the animal
> and body part in question, as well as a vital clue as to its overall
> fitness for consumption. Only the poor gnawed on unrecognizable remnants,
> mostly in stews and soups.
>
> Then came World War I. The military and its meatpacking friends in Chicago
> suddenly found that they needed to supply 4.7 million troops with a pound
> of protein a day. Obviously it couldn't send whole carcasses overseas -
> not in such large quantities. Desperate to keep supplies running, the
> Army's Quartermaster Corps asked itself: Could it go against humankind's
> antipathy to barrels of unidentifiable chunks and scraps, long disdained
> as containing tainted meat?
>
> In 1918, the Army - with the help of Lt. Jay Hormel (doesn't that name
> sound familiar?) - set up a beef processing plant and distribution system
> centered in Chicago. The results caused Army bigwigs to do a little jig: a
> quarter-carcass weighed 25% less without its bones, fat and cartilage.
> When frozen into a rectangular solid, wrapped in burlap and waxed paper,
> and stacked, it occupied 60% less space on crowded trains and ships.
>
> By World War II, the Chicago meatpacking companies Armour and Swift had
> gotten in on the act, working with the Navy Veterinary Department to
> invent more efficient deboning techniques, sort the meat by class and
> flash freeze the flesh so that it maintained a fresh appearance and
> texture.
> Thanks to the military, we no longer demand bodily evidence as to the
> origins and wholesomeness of our dinner. -
>
> Crowed the War Department in 1946: "Military advances in beef processing
> have made the beef ration a reality almost everywhere our present global
> Army may be. The Army has put boneless beef - frozen fresh and packed . on
> a basis where further experimentation is not necessary. It is now ready
> for civilian use."
>
> Not quite.
>
> In fact, it took the rise of the supermarket, and the replacement of the
> old meatpacking business model (traditional butchery by tradesmen in
> cities along train lines) with a new one (assembly-line butchery by
> unskilled workers near rural feedlots along the federal highway system)
> before civilians accepted the economic and practical benefits of boxed,
> boneless meat. From 1963 to 2002, the percentage of boxed beef shipped
> from the nation's largest slaughterhouses increased from less than 10% to
> 60% of total sales, and now accounts for more than 90% of the beef sold in
> supermarkets.
>
> The military didn't stop with deboning. As soon as boxed meat was widely
> available, Army brass set itself the modest goal of reducing the meat bill
> 60%. It would buy the cheapest parts and figure out a way to make them
> look and taste like the more desirable whole-muscle cuts.
>
> Military food scientists went into the laboratory and began to fiddle, as
> well as to contract with universities and industry for outside research.
> They and their collaborators improved meat flaking equipment, invented
> meat glue (a mixture of meat ooze, salt and other chemicals), and
> discovered that adding phosphate improved juiciness, texture and flavor.
> Together, these developments allowed them to paste together bits and
> scraps that could then be molded into a chop, cutlet or steak tasting
> roughly like the real thing.
>
> By 1972, the Army's fake-muscle-cuts project had successfully manufactured
> pilot runs of grill steaks, Swiss steaks, minute steaks and breakfast
> steaks. It started serving the troops restructured veal cutlets in 1976,
> followed by lamb and pork chops and, somewhat later, beefsteaks. Soon,
> these Frankenfoods were standard fare in the MRE (Meal, Ready to Eat).
>
> Once the military had accomplished its goal, it stepped back, letting the
> private sector replace the government as the chief promoter and developer
> of restructured meat, its appetite whetted by the value-added proposition
> of making something from practically nothing.
>
> University and industry food science departments looked for ways to
> further reduce manufacturing costs. This included hot deboning (while the
> corpse is still steaming), de-sinewing, mechanical separation (pushing a
> carcass through a sieve), blending fat and trim into protein "sludge," and
> collection of plasma for use as a plumper. Items produced using these
> exotic techniques debuted in fast-food restaurants, and appeared a bit
> later in the frozen foods section and then finally in the supermarket
> refrigerator case.
>
> Consumption of restructured meat products exploded in the 1990s and the
> early years of the 2000s, so much so that in 1997, the Census Bureau had
> to add a new industry code - nonpoultry meat processing - which that year
> generated $24 billion in sales. By 2007, it accounted for $37 billion.
>
> Americans began the 20th century clinging to their T-bones and prime ribs.
> But, thanks to the military, we no longer demand bodily evidence as to the
> origins and wholesomeness of our dinner. We have even learned to prefer
> eating animals in the forms pioneered by the Army: boneless and
> restructured. Bon appetit, America.
>
> Anastacia Marx de Salcedo is the author of "Combat-Ready Kitchen: How the
> U.S. Military Shaped the Way You Eat."

"From 1963 to 2002, the percentage of boxed beef shipped
from the nation's largest slaughterhouses increased from less than 10% to
60% of total sales, and now accounts for more than 90% of the beef sold in
supermarkets."

This article makes it sound like "boxed beef" is all mystery meats. Most of
the boxed beef are factory produced standard cuts, such as a box of NY
steaks, etc.

On 8/3/2015 9:26 AM, taxed and spent wrote:
>>What with all the vegetarians, vegans and flexitarians around, you might
>>be surprised to learn that we now consume more animal protein than ever:
>>200 pounds per person in 2000, up some 40 pounds since the backyard

With the opening statement "What with all the vegetarians, vegans and
flexitarians around, you might be surprised to learn that we now consume
more animal protein than ever", you can tell who the author's intended
audience is. Elite northeasterners who shop at Whole Foods, and still
eat a lot of meat, even though it rubs their consciences raw.

This is a hit piece against Big Food and the meat industry, pure and
simple. It's akin to the campaign against "pink slime".

Travis McGee wrote:

>http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
>
>How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
>By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo

<gibberish snipped>

That article was obviously written by someone who never served in the
US military. The US military is served the finast USDA graded beef
possible, they get the best of the best, chosen way ahead of anyone
else, no restaurant on the planet gets better beef, same for pork and
chicken... there is no mystery meat, none. What most altered how we
eat is modern refrigeration.

On 2015-08-03, Travis McGee > wrote:

> This is a hit piece against Big Food and the meat industry, pure and
> simple. It's akin to the campaign against "pink slime".

You seem to be implying this is a bad thing.

I can't think of another food industry that deserves a "hit piece"
more.

nb

On 02/08/2015 10:42 PM, Travis McGee wrote:
> http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
>
>
> How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
> By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo
>

As a side note, one of the largest meat packing facilities in Canada employs
lawyers, doctors and other highly educated people on the killing floor
and production line. They are all immigrants and refugees from the 3rd
world whose qualifications can't be easily accepted by the professional
bodies that rule on such things.
Graham

--
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy wine,
which is kind of the same thing".

On 8/3/2015 8:49 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> The US military is served the finast USDA graded beef
> possible,


Oh?

They eat prime?

Really?

Cite?

On 8/4/2015 2:31 AM, notbob wrote:
Fourteen hundred years ago Islam gave women rights; rights that could
not have been imagined by European counterparts. Bold words! Words
that have been spoken repeatedly, especially in the last two or three
decades by Muslim converts, and Islamic writers, academics and educators
across the globe. Women’s rights, responsibilities, and choices have
been the subject of books, articles, essays, and lectures. Sadly
however, convincing the world that Muslim women are not oppressed by
Islam is a message that is just not getting through. Media headlines
scream oppression and the words Muslim, women, and oppression seem to
have become inextricably linked.

No matter what Muslim women do or say to try to convince the world
otherwise, words like hijab, burka, polygamy, and Sharia seem to do
little but convince people that Islam oppresses women. Even educated,
articulate women fulfilling the modest conditions of hijab can do little
to dispel the myths. Women who conduct themselves with decorum and
grace and function effortlessly in the modern world have their
achievements and successes celebrated. However, if a woman wears a
scarf, covers her hair or puts her religion above worldly pursuits she
is immediately labelled oppressed. One wonders if this is the case for
women of other religious persuasions.

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 10:49:33 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:

>Travis McGee wrote:
>
>>http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
>>
>>How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
>>By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo
>
><gibberish snipped>
>
>That article was obviously written by someone who never served in the
>US military. The US military is served the finast USDA graded beef
>possible, they get the best of the best, chosen way ahead of anyone
>else, no restaurant on the planet gets better beef, same for pork and
>chicken... there is no mystery meat, none. What most altered how we
>eat is modern refrigeration.

So Sheldpon, you're obviously a military brat, how did it get called
Shit On A Shingle if the beef in that ostensibly creamed chipped beef
was such great beef?

John Kuthe...

On 8/3/2015 2:42 PM, Travis McGee wrote:
Fourteen hundred years ago Islam gave women rights; rights that could
not have been imagined by European counterparts. Bold words! Words
that have been spoken repeatedly, especially in the last two or three
decades by Muslim converts, and Islamic writers, academics and educators
across the globe. Womens rights, responsibilities, and choices have
been the subject of books, articles, essays, and lectures. Sadly
however, convincing the world that Muslim women are not oppressed by
Islam is a message that is just not getting through. Media headlines
scream oppression and the words Muslim, women, and oppression seem to
have become inextricably linked.

No matter what Muslim women do or say to try to convince the world
otherwise, words like hijab, burka, polygamy, and Sharia seem to do
little but convince people that Islam oppresses women. Even educated,
articulate women fulfilling the modest conditions of hijab can do little
to dispel the myths. Women who conduct themselves with decorum and
grace and function effortlessly in the modern world have their
achievements and successes celebrated. However, if a woman wears a
scarf, covers her hair or puts her religion above worldly pursuits she
is immediately labelled oppressed. One wonders if this is the case for
women of other religious persuasions.

On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:30:09 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 00:42:53 -0400, Travis McGee wrote:
>
>> Americans began the 20th century clinging to their T-bones and prime
>> ribs. But, thanks to the military, we no longer demand bodily evidence
>> as to the origins and wholesomeness of our dinner. We have even learned
>> to prefer eating animals in the forms pioneered by the Army: boneless
>> and restructured. Bon appetit, America.
>
>Other than lunchmeat/hot dogs and chicken nuggets, I don't see any of
>this "reformed meat" at my grocers except hidden in frozen entrees and
>soups. And of course cans of SPAM.
>
>I know Walmart sells those meat-glued "steaks", but by far the
>majority of meat for sale is whole muscle meat and poultry.
>
>Institutional meat, OTOH - school, hospitals, jails/prisons (and yes,
>the lower-class military) are probably the majority consumers of those
>reformed scraps.
>
>-sw

MalWart. I feel that spelling better reflect's it's corporate
character.

John Kuthe...

On 8/3/2015 11:46 PM, Travis McGee wrote:
Fourteen hundred years ago Islam gave women rights; rights that could
not have been imagined by European counterparts. Bold words! Words
that have been spoken repeatedly, especially in the last two or three
decades by Muslim converts, and Islamic writers, academics and educators
across the globe. Women’s rights, responsibilities, and choices have
been the subject of books, articles, essays, and lectures. Sadly
however, convincing the world that Muslim women are not oppressed by
Islam is a message that is just not getting through. Media headlines
scream oppression and the words Muslim, women, and oppression seem to
have become inextricably linked.

No matter what Muslim women do or say to try to convince the world
otherwise, words like hijab, burka, polygamy, and Sharia seem to do
little but convince people that Islam oppresses women. Even educated,
articulate women fulfilling the modest conditions of hijab can do little
to dispel the myths. Women who conduct themselves with decorum and
grace and function effortlessly in the modern world have their
achievements and successes celebrated. However, if a woman wears a
scarf, covers her hair or puts her religion above worldly pursuits she
is immediately labelled oppressed. One wonders if this is the case for
women of other religious persuasions.

On 8/3/2015 12:30 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> Institutional meat, OTOH -


**** OFF WOMAN STALKER!

>> Omelet wrote:
>
>> He hates me 'cause I never slept with him...
>
> He hates himself because he is all he has to sleep with
> I don't know, sometimes he used to seem normal, then he went petty
> trough vindictive and now I just shun contact. I have enough crazies to
> deal with in my world without encouraging those who refuse to take their
> meds.

For the record, I never once even considered sleeping with you. And
you know that. You're the one who somehow got the idea that I was
going to move in with you - and you posted that to RFC just out of the
total blue.

After having met you twice at casual austin.food gatherings 2 or 3
years ago and not giving you any indication that there was any sort of
romantic interest in the least, you somehow twisted that into MY
MOVING IN WITH YOU?

That was just way too Psycho for me. I sat there at stared at the
screen for at least 15 minutes wondering, WTF? That was just way too
spooky. I've met weird, semi-psycho women before but you win, hands
down. Mapi of austin.general still holds the male title, but at least
he announced his psychosis right there lying on the floor of the bar
at B.D. Reilly's rather than romantically obsessing over me for 2
years.

Needless to say, you need to come to terms with what happened and why
your mind works that way and stop making up excuses for your fixation
and disappointment before we become the next Yoli and Michael. I'd
prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

And Jeremy, I was just tired of your decade of bullshit and visions of
grandeur about all these things you're "working on" or have not done
in the past. Even posting a call for meetings with imaginary people
about imaginary projects of yours at "the normal time and place", as
if you are somebody important with a life. I'm pretty sure you're
manic depressive mixed with habitual liar.

Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw

John Kuthe wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 10:49:33 -0400, Brooklyn1
> > wrote:
>
> > Travis McGee wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...-military-meat
> > > -20150802-story.html
> > >
> > > How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
> > > By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo
> >
> > <gibberish snipped>
> >
> > That article was obviously written by someone who never served in
> > the US military. The US military is served the finast USDA graded
> > beef possible, they get the best of the best, chosen way ahead of
> > anyone else, no restaurant on the planet gets better beef, same for
> > pork and chicken... there is no mystery meat, none. What most
> > altered how we eat is modern refrigeration.
>
> So Sheldpon, you're obviously a military brat, how did it get called
> Shit On A Shingle if the beef in that ostensibly creamed chipped beef
> was such great beef?
>
> John Kuthe...

Hey John,

Sheldon served in Korean war time (1, maybe 2 tours). It changed. We
did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super expensive sorts later on.

Chipped beef done right is actually not only quite good, it's a
tradition and sailors like it (grin).

Carol

--

On 8/3/2015 12:34 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> You're pathetic. You have no clue.
>
> -sw

**** OFF WOMAN STALKER!

>> Omelet wrote:
>
>> He hates me 'cause I never slept with him...
>
> He hates himself because he is all he has to sleep with
> I don't know, sometimes he used to seem normal, then he went petty
> trough vindictive and now I just shun contact. I have enough crazies to
> deal with in my world without encouraging those who refuse to take their
> meds.

For the record, I never once even considered sleeping with you. And
you know that. You're the one who somehow got the idea that I was
going to move in with you - and you posted that to RFC just out of the
total blue.

After having met you twice at casual austin.food gatherings 2 or 3
years ago and not giving you any indication that there was any sort of
romantic interest in the least, you somehow twisted that into MY
MOVING IN WITH YOU?

That was just way too Psycho for me. I sat there at stared at the
screen for at least 15 minutes wondering, WTF? That was just way too
spooky. I've met weird, semi-psycho women before but you win, hands
down. Mapi of austin.general still holds the male title, but at least
he announced his psychosis right there lying on the floor of the bar
at B.D. Reilly's rather than romantically obsessing over me for 2
years.

Needless to say, you need to come to terms with what happened and why
your mind works that way and stop making up excuses for your fixation
and disappointment before we become the next Yoli and Michael. I'd
prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

And Jeremy, I was just tired of your decade of bullshit and visions of
grandeur about all these things you're "working on" or have not done
in the past. Even posting a call for meetings with imaginary people
about imaginary projects of yours at "the normal time and place", as
if you are somebody important with a life. I'm pretty sure you're
manic depressive mixed with habitual liar.

Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw

On 2015-08-03, cshenk > wrote:

> It changed. We did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super
> expensive sorts later on.

I attended a cooking school for 6 mos. It was taught by a Navy cook
retired after a jillion tours. He was actually a very good cook,
until it came to meat. We'd get these awesome roasts. Prime rib,
etc. He'd cook every one of them to death! No kidding. Those
gorgeous choice cut 8-10 lb roasts would not come out of our
commercial convection ovens until they were roasted geezer-shoe-brown
from edge to edge. Our instructor never even heard of "rare" or
"medium".

Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
hamburger.

nb

On 8/4/2015 5:05 AM, TRS wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente FRAUD!


Get the **** out of here, you FAT FRAUD biotch troll!



Get out - stalker!


....dump!

____.-.____
[__Barbara__]
[_J.Llorente _]
(d|||TROLL|||b)
`|||ENABLER|||`
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
`"""""""""'
\\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//

On 8/4/2015 5:01 AM, notbob wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente - A FRAUD!
Get the **** out of here, you FAT FRAUD biotch troll!




Get out - stalker!


....dump!

____.-.____
[__Barbara__]
[_J.Llorente _]
(d|||TROLL|||b)
`|||ENABLER|||`
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
|||||||||||
`"""""""""'
\\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//

On 8/4/2015 5:01 AM, notbob wrote:
Running for the White House, Jeb Bush portrays himself as a man who has
"worked his tail off" to get ahead in life. But in his business
dealings—which involved such diverse fields as real estate, credit card
services, and water pumps—the candidate seemed to benefit from his
father's political power and worked with people who turned out to be
criminals, the Washington Post reports. Bush's business outlook in his
early years was "a little bit of damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead,"
says a professor who wrote about him. "His judgment on who to associate
with is lacking." Unlike his father and brother George, who each made
fortunes as young men, Jeb jumped from one business venture to another,
at times with unsavory characters.

On 8/4/2015 4:44 AM, cshenk wrote:
Running for the White House, Jeb Bush portrays himself as a man who has
"worked his tail off" to get ahead in life. But in his business
dealings—which involved such diverse fields as real estate, credit card
services, and water pumps—the candidate seemed to benefit from his
father's political power and worked with people who turned out to be
criminals, the Washington Post reports. Bush's business outlook in his
early years was "a little bit of damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead,"
says a professor who wrote about him. "His judgment on who to associate
with is lacking." Unlike his father and brother George, who each made
fortunes as young men, Jeb jumped from one business venture to another,
at times with unsavory characters.

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 13:35:39 -0500, John Kuthe >
wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 10:49:33 -0400, Brooklyn1
> wrote:
>
>>Travis McGee wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
>>>
>>>How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
>>>By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo
>>
>><gibberish snipped>
>>
>>That article was obviously written by someone who never served in the
>>US military. The US military is served the finast USDA graded beef
>>possible, they get the best of the best, chosen way ahead of anyone
>>else, no restaurant on the planet gets better beef, same for pork and
>>chicken... there is no mystery meat, none. What most altered how we
>>eat is modern refrigeration.
>
>So Sheldpon, you're obviously a military brat, how did it get called
>Shit On A Shingle if the beef in that ostensibly creamed chipped beef
>was such great beef?
>
>John Kuthe.

You've obviously never bought chipped beef, it's the most expensive
ingredient on the menu... an unemployed loser like you couldn't afford
it.

On 8/4/2015 6:27 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
Running for the White House, Jeb Bush portrays himself as a man who has
"worked his tail off" to get ahead in life. But in his business
dealings—which involved such diverse fields as real estate, credit card
services, and water pumps—the candidate seemed to benefit from his
father's political power and worked with people who turned out to be
criminals, the Washington Post reports. Bush's business outlook in his
early years was "a little bit of damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead,"
says a professor who wrote about him. "His judgment on who to associate
with is lacking." Unlike his father and brother George, who each made
fortunes as young men, Jeb jumped from one business venture to another,
at times with unsavory characters.

On 8/4/2015 6:04 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Running for the White House, Jeb Bush portrays himself as a man who has
"worked his tail off" to get ahead in life. But in his business
dealings—which involved such diverse fields as real estate, credit card
services, and water pumps—the candidate seemed to benefit from his
father's political power and worked with people who turned out to be
criminals, the Washington Post reports. Bush's business outlook in his
early years was "a little bit of damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead,"
says a professor who wrote about him. "His judgment on who to associate
with is lacking." Unlike his father and brother George, who each made
fortunes as young men, Jeb jumped from one business venture to another,
at times with unsavory characters.

On 8/3/2015 2:27 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> I was going to add some parsley
**** OFF WOMAN STALKER!

>> Omelet wrote:
>
>> He hates me 'cause I never slept with him...
>
> He hates himself because he is all he has to sleep with
> I don't know, sometimes he used to seem normal, then he went petty
> trough vindictive and now I just shun contact. I have enough crazies to
> deal with in my world without encouraging those who refuse to take their
> meds.

For the record, I never once even considered sleeping with you. And
you know that. You're the one who somehow got the idea that I was
going to move in with you - and you posted that to RFC just out of the
total blue.

After having met you twice at casual austin.food gatherings 2 or 3
years ago and not giving you any indication that there was any sort of
romantic interest in the least, you somehow twisted that into MY
MOVING IN WITH YOU?

That was just way too Psycho for me. I sat there at stared at the
screen for at least 15 minutes wondering, WTF? That was just way too
spooky. I've met weird, semi-psycho women before but you win, hands
down. Mapi of austin.general still holds the male title, but at least
he announced his psychosis right there lying on the floor of the bar
at B.D. Reilly's rather than romantically obsessing over me for 2
years.

Needless to say, you need to come to terms with what happened and why
your mind works that way and stop making up excuses for your fixation
and disappointment before we become the next Yoli and Michael. I'd
prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

And Jeremy, I was just tired of your decade of bullshit and visions of
grandeur about all these things you're "working on" or have not done
in the past. Even posting a call for meetings with imaginary people
about imaginary projects of yours at "the normal time and place", as
if you are somebody important with a life. I'm pretty sure you're
manic depressive mixed with habitual liar.

Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw

On 8/4/2015 6:52 AM, TRS wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente FRAUD!

Barbara J Llorente 71 Cerritos Ave San Francisco, CA 94127.
Age 65 (Born 1950) (415) 239-7248. Background Check - Available. Record
ID: 47846596.

Your ass has more mass than Jupiter!

No one cares about you.

Get OUT!


_,..._
/__ \
>< `. \
/_ \ |
\-_ /:|
,--'..'. :
,' `.
_,' \
_.._,--'' , |
, ,',, _| _,.'| | |
\\||/,'(,' '--'' | | |
_ ||| | /-' |
| | (- -)<`._ | / /
| | \_\O/_/`-.(<< |____/ /
| | / \ / -'| `--.'|
| | \___/ / /
| | H H / | |
|_|_..-H-H--.._ / ,| |
|-.._"_"__..-| | _-/ | |
| | | | \_ |
Barbara Llorente | | | | |
| The | |____| | |
|Troll Enabler | _..' | |____|
jrei | |_(____..._' _.' |
`-..______..-'"" (___..--'

On 8/4/2015 6:51 AM, TRS wrote:
Barbara J. Llorente FRAUD!

Barbara J Llorente 71 Cerritos Ave San Francisco, CA 94127.
Age 65 (Born 1950) (415) 239-7248. Background Check - Available. Record
ID: 47846596.

Your ass has more mass than Jupiter!

No one cares about you.

Get OUT!


_,..._
/__ \
>< `. \
/_ \ |
\-_ /:|
,--'..'. :
,' `.
_,' \
_.._,--'' , |
, ,',, _| _,.'| | |
\\||/,'(,' '--'' | | |
_ ||| | /-' |
| | (- -)<`._ | / /
| | \_\O/_/`-.(<< |____/ /
| | / \ / -'| `--.'|
| | \___/ / /
| | H H / | |
|_|_..-H-H--.._ / ,| |
|-.._"_"__..-| | _-/ | |
| | | | \_ |
Barbara Llorente | | | | |
| The | |____| | |
|Troll Enabler | _..' | |____|
jrei | |_(____..._' _.' |
`-..______..-'"" (___..--'

On 8/3/2015 3:15 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> Frozen grapes are awesome.
**** OFF WOMAN STALKER!

>> Omelet wrote:
>
>> He hates me 'cause I never slept with him...
>
> He hates himself because he is all he has to sleep with
> I don't know, sometimes he used to seem normal, then he went petty
> trough vindictive and now I just shun contact. I have enough crazies to
> deal with in my world without encouraging those who refuse to take their
> meds.

For the record, I never once even considered sleeping with you. And
you know that. You're the one who somehow got the idea that I was
going to move in with you - and you posted that to RFC just out of the
total blue.

After having met you twice at casual austin.food gatherings 2 or 3
years ago and not giving you any indication that there was any sort of
romantic interest in the least, you somehow twisted that into MY
MOVING IN WITH YOU?

That was just way too Psycho for me. I sat there at stared at the
screen for at least 15 minutes wondering, WTF? That was just way too
spooky. I've met weird, semi-psycho women before but you win, hands
down. Mapi of austin.general still holds the male title, but at least
he announced his psychosis right there lying on the floor of the bar
at B.D. Reilly's rather than romantically obsessing over me for 2
years.

Needless to say, you need to come to terms with what happened and why
your mind works that way and stop making up excuses for your fixation
and disappointment before we become the next Yoli and Michael. I'd
prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

And Jeremy, I was just tired of your decade of bullshit and visions of
grandeur about all these things you're "working on" or have not done
in the past. Even posting a call for meetings with imaginary people
about imaginary projects of yours at "the normal time and place", as
if you are somebody important with a life. I'm pretty sure you're
manic depressive mixed with habitual liar.

Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 2015-08-03, cshenk > wrote:
>
> > It changed. We did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super
> > expensive sorts later on.
>
> I attended a cooking school for 6 mos. It was taught by a Navy cook
> retired after a jillion tours. He was actually a very good cook,
> until it came to meat. We'd get these awesome roasts. Prime rib,
> etc. He'd cook every one of them to death! No kidding. Those
> gorgeous choice cut 8-10 lb roasts would not come out of our
> commercial convection ovens until they were roasted geezer-shoe-brown
> from edge to edge. Our instructor never even heard of "rare" or
> "medium".
>
> Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
> hamburger.
>
> nb

Smile, times change and yes, they don't do rare in the Navy. It has to
do with storage time and food safety with the gear they have. The USAF
were not at sea for months at a time so could get fresh supplies.

Now adays, you eat pretty well on a ship (always didnt really once
refridgeration was added) but you do run out of fresh stuff.

--

On 2015-08-03, cshenk > wrote:

> The USAF were not at sea for months at a time so could get fresh
> supplies.

Not always. I hadda endure powdered milk for 18 mos.

nb

On 3 Aug 2015 19:01:07 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
> hamburger.

My father and grandfather were in the army air corps during WWII and
their version was made with chipped beef, not hamburger.

Army style (creamed chipped beef)
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbo..._beef_on_toast

Navy style (minced beef in tomato sauce)
http://www.seabeecook.com/cookery/co...ooking_sos.htm

Marines style (hamburger in a cream sauce)
http://www.recipegoldmine.com/military/sos.html


--

sf

On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, cshenk wrote:
> John Kuthe wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 10:49:33 -0400, Brooklyn1
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Travis McGee wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...-military-meat
> > > > -20150802-story.html
> > > >
> > > > How we went from beef on the hoof to mystery meat in a box
> > > > By Anastacia Marx de Salcedo
> > >
> > > <gibberish snipped>
> > >
> > > That article was obviously written by someone who never served in
> > > the US military. The US military is served the finast USDA graded
> > > beef possible, they get the best of the best, chosen way ahead of
> > > anyone else, no restaurant on the planet gets better beef, same for
> > > pork and chicken... there is no mystery meat, none. What most
> > > altered how we eat is modern refrigeration.
> >
> > So Sheldpon, you're obviously a military brat, how did it get called
> > Shit On A Shingle if the beef in that ostensibly creamed chipped beef
> > was such great beef?
> >
> > John Kuthe...
>
> Hey John,
>
> Sheldon served in Korean war time (1, maybe 2 tours). It changed. We
> did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super expensive sorts later on.
>
There's nothing horrible about it, and many of us *food slum*, often for
reasons tied up with nostalgia.
>
> Chipped beef done right is actually not only quite good, it's a
> tradition

Again, nostalgia.

> and sailors like it (grin).
>
And you like sailors
>
> Carol
>
--Bryan

On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 2:01:12 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> On 2015-08-03, cshenk > wrote:
>
> > It changed. We did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super
> > expensive sorts later on.
>
> I attended a cooking school for 6 mos. It was taught by a Navy cook
> retired after a jillion tours. He was actually a very good cook,
> until it came to meat. We'd get these awesome roasts. Prime rib,
> etc. He'd cook every one of them to death! No kidding. Those
> gorgeous choice cut 8-10 lb roasts would not come out of our
> commercial convection ovens until they were roasted geezer-shoe-brown
> from edge to edge. Our instructor never even heard of "rare" or
> "medium".
>
> Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
> hamburger.
>
In later years, servicepersons in war zones have gotten better food, which
is a good thing, and I don't mind in the least paying more taxes so that
troops can have better food, but instead of using military personnel to
prepare/serve, they contract out to companies that gouge the taxpayers, and
it is nothing more than "military industrial complex" crony capitalism.
>
> nb

--Bryan

On 8/3/2015 5:39 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> My mom was a WAVE messenger during WWII, and she could make some
>> >really great SOS. I have no idea if there was a connection.
> If you are serious,

\|||/
(o o)
,---ooO--(_)--------.
| Please don't |
| feed the Marty & |
| Sqwerty TROLLS! |
| TNX |
`-------------ooO---'
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo

On 8/3/2015 6:52 PM, MisterDiddyWahDiddy wrote:
>> Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
>> >hamburger.
>> >
> In later years, servicepersons in war zones have gotten better food, which
> is a good thing, and I don't mind in the least paying more taxes so that
> troops can have better food, but instead of using military personnel to
> prepare/serve, they contract out to companies that gouge the taxpayers, and
> it is nothing more than "military industrial complex" crony capitalism.

What anti-capitalistic BULLSHIT!

Here's a clue - the talents and salary of a soldier are FAR better
allocated in actual military duty, and not mere food service, latrine
duty, or any number of things that can be better contracted to specialty
services.

Damn you're dumb!

How do you even manage to lace your shoes each morning?

Oh...velcro...lol....

On 8/3/2015 6:42 PM, MisterDiddyWahDiddy wrote:
>> Chipped beef done right is actually not only quite good, it's a
>> >tradition
> Again, nostalgia.
>

Again, your idiotic belief system.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/weapo...hippedbeef.htm

The main manufacturer of chipped beef in the U.S. is Hormel Foods
Corporation based in Minnesota. In the U.S. military, "chipped beef on
toast" has been served in mess halls since the Second World War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipped_beef

While the common S.O.S. base is typically a white sauce made from a
roux, a variety of meats may take the place of the chipped beef. These
may include tuna, sausage, or ground beef, and may be served over toast,
biscuits, or hash browns.

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 18:50:50 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:

>notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> On 2015-08-03, cshenk > wrote:
>>
>> > It changed. We did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super
>> > expensive sorts later on.
>>
>> I attended a cooking school for 6 mos. It was taught by a Navy cook
>> retired after a jillion tours. He was actually a very good cook,
>> until it came to meat. We'd get these awesome roasts. Prime rib,
>> etc. He'd cook every one of them to death! No kidding. Those
>> gorgeous choice cut 8-10 lb roasts would not come out of our
>> commercial convection ovens until they were roasted geezer-shoe-brown
>> from edge to edge. Our instructor never even heard of "rare" or
>> "medium".
>>
>> Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
>> hamburger.
>>
>> nb
>
>Smile, times change and yes, they don't do rare in the Navy. It has to
>do with storage time and food safety with the gear they have. The USAF
>were not at sea for months at a time so could get fresh supplies.
>
>Now adays, you eat pretty well on a ship (always didnt really once
>refridgeration was added) but you do run out of fresh stuff.

US Navy ships were outfitted with reefers before most homes.
You couldn't have been much of a sailer to not know about
replenishment at sea.... do you really think that when a ship is at
sea for a year all there is to eat are stale saltines? You were
obviously in the land navy, never been to sea. It was very rare not
to have fresh foods, wasn't always store bought baked goods like pies
and cakes due to limited storage and we'd take on maybe a weeks worth
before getting underway, but my baking was better than package
bread anyway... I'd bake 50 loaves of bread every night, 50 pies too,
plus all sorts of cakes and cookies. We hardly ever ran out of fresh
produce, pulling up alongside a huge refrigeration ship is like
pulling up to 50 Super Walmarts... they'd highline far more food than
we could stow, arrived on one side and was deep sixed on the other,
they sent so much food because the sooner they were empty the sooner
they returned to port.
You woulden't have lasted an hour on a tincan in high seas:
http://www.wearethemighty.com/watch-...ts-job-2015-01

On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 21:49:20 -0600, TRS > wrote:

>On 8/3/2015 6:42 PM, MisterDiddyWahDiddy wrote:
>>> Chipped beef done right is actually not only quite good, it's a
>>> >tradition
>> Again, nostalgia.
>>
>
>Again, your idiotic belief system.
>
>http://usmilitary.about.com/od/weapo...hippedbeef.htm
>
>The main manufacturer of chipped beef in the U.S. is Hormel Foods
>Corporation based in Minnesota. In the U.S. military, "chipped beef on
>toast" has been served in mess halls since the Second World War.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipped_beef
>
>While the common S.O.S. base is typically a white sauce made from a
>roux, a variety of meats may take the place of the chipped beef. These
>may include tuna, sausage, or ground beef, and may be served over toast,
>biscuits, or hash browns.

All true... aboard ship all versions were prepared but SOS with dried
chipped beef wasn't served all that often as it was the costliest meal
served... I often added quartered hard cooked eggs as a stretcher...
the crew liked it so much that they requested it without the chipped
beef, they thought I invented the dish, I never told them otherwise.
In 1960 eggs were cheap, dried chipped beef cost the navy $17/lb.

On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 17:52:47 -0700 (PDT), MisterDiddyWahDiddy
> wrote:

>On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 2:01:12 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>> On 2015-08-03, cshenk > wrote:
>>
>> > It changed. We did get decent stuff, but it wasn't the super
>> > expensive sorts later on.
>>
>> I attended a cooking school for 6 mos. It was taught by a Navy cook
>> retired after a jillion tours. He was actually a very good cook,
>> until it came to meat. We'd get these awesome roasts. Prime rib,
>> etc. He'd cook every one of them to death! No kidding. Those
>> gorgeous choice cut 8-10 lb roasts would not come out of our
>> commercial convection ovens until they were roasted geezer-shoe-brown
>> from edge to edge. Our instructor never even heard of "rare" or
>> "medium".
>>
>> Perhaps the Navy would get chipped beef. The USAF always got
>> hamburger.
>>
>In later years, servicepersons in war zones have gotten better food, which
>is a good thing, and I don't mind in the least paying more taxes so that
>troops can have better food, but instead of using military personnel to
>prepare/serve, they contract out to companies that gouge the taxpayers, and
>it is nothing more than "military industrial complex" crony capitalism.

You must be talking shore duty, there were no civilians aboard ship at
sea. But I can't imagine civilian cooks on a naval base.

On 8/4/2015 11:31 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 21:49:20 -0600, TRS > wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/2015 6:42 PM, MisterDiddyWahDiddy wrote:
>>>> Chipped beef done right is actually not only quite good, it's a
>>>>> tradition
>>> Again, nostalgia.
>>>
>>
>> Again, your idiotic belief system.
>>
>> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/weapo...hippedbeef.htm
>>
>> The main manufacturer of chipped beef in the U.S. is Hormel Foods
>> Corporation based in Minnesota. In the U.S. military, "chipped beef on
>> toast" has been served in mess halls since the Second World War.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipped_beef
>>
>> While the common S.O.S. base is typically a white sauce made from a
>> roux, a variety of meats may take the place of the chipped beef. These
>> may include tuna, sausage, or ground beef, and may be served over toast,
>> biscuits, or hash browns.
>
> All true... aboard ship all versions were prepared but SOS with dried
> chipped beef wasn't served all that often as it was the costliest meal
> served... I often added quartered hard cooked eggs as a stretcher...
> the crew liked it so much that they requested it without the chipped
> beef, they thought I invented the dish, I never told them otherwise.
> In 1960 eggs were cheap, dried chipped beef cost the navy $17/lb.
>
>
Never ever take the janitor's word for ANYTHING here.

Ever.