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Old 14-03-2013, 09:37 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:39:38 -0500, jay wrote:

In article ,
Brooklyn1 wrote:


I don't know about the Noritz brand, why did you choose it?


Was here first. Don't know what your installers told you but check this
out... I keep mine set at 115 F degrees. (My dishwasher has a heater)
The hotter the water the faster the scale builds up, and I was told it
increases rapidly over 120 F. I really don't know if it is true but I'm
experimenting. Mine is 6 years old and never been flushed. They tell
you to pump vinegar through the heater annually. I don't... don't
wanna. If it makes another 4 years I'll get a Rinnai if it doesn't I'll
still get a Rinnai. The installation is not that difficult if you are
plumbed for it already. I'm guessing you spent over 3K.


Mine is set at 115 too, they said that's more than adequate and it
certainly was when I tested it showering this morning, even had to add
a bit of cold. The highest it will go is 120 but they said so far no
one needed it that high... depends on how low the cold water
temperature is when it enters the unit. It does take a little longer
for hot water to come out the tap but maybe only a minute and a half
instead of the one minute previously... but still it gets warm much
quicker than it did before, probably because the unit is now placed
about halfway between bathrooms, the old system was close to the
laundry room. And now it's still winter temperatures here, it's in
the 20s today, so my cold water is pretty cold... I bet things will be
different in summer. I asked about maintenence, I have my own well, I
have a water softener and a particulate filter, they said I may never
need to flush it, but it's no big deal and they will be happy to
oblige... one of the nice things is I buy propane from them so service
is usually free or very minimal, except for special parts. They
charged me $2,400, that was for the unit, all the parts, and all the
labor... and there was a lot of parts and plenty of labor needed after
removing the storage tanks, circulators, electricals and all the
extraneous plumbing. The thing I can tell you is that Rinnai doesn't
warranty the unit unless a qualified installer does the install. It's
too soon to tell but so far I love it.

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Old 14-03-2013, 09:57 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:06:11 -0400, Brooklyn1
wrote:

Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
installed yesterday:
http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg

http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us


Would be good as a back-up for solar hot water in mid-winter...
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Old 14-03-2013, 09:58 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'mIn Hot Water!

On 3/14/2013 3:24 PM, Ophelia wrote:
"S Viemeister" wrote
On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.


I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
boiler?


Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

Not where I am (NY metro area), although my in-laws on Long Island had
an oil-fired system which did both central heating and hot water.
Everyone else I know in the area has separate units. The hot water is
typically provided by a large cylinder in the basement or integral
garage, heated by either gas or electricity (ours is gas). I much prefer
the system we have in Scotland, even with the inconvenience of oil
deliveries (no gas mains within a hundred miles of our house).
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Old 14-03-2013, 10:25 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:42:32 -0700, sf wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:25:06 -0500, jay wrote:

In article ,
Brooklyn1 wrote:

Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
installed yesterday:
http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg

http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us


Nice clean installation.. and they installed proper flush ports and
installed a sediment trap on the gas line. Good for you! Rinnai is know
to be a good product. Works well if centrally located. Mine has to be
circulated due to location and I don't think it saves that much on the
bill. I have a Noritz.

So these are whole house units? Probably work better in smaller
houses, 1500 sf and under.


That's totally untrue... large hotels are using them now (they save a
lot of money). Naturally the units are available in several sizes,
same as ordinary water heaters... unless you have more than four
showers running all at once you wouldn't need a unit larger than the
one I have. And for large commercial use several units can be used at
once. The unit also needs to be sized based on climate, I live where
it's cold so the water is colder so I need a higher rated unit. But
most of the savings is because of the on-demand feature, it only heats
the water that's needed at the moment, there's no idle large tank of
water to keep hot. I showered a full twenty minutes this morning, the
water was as hot when I started as when I finished. Oh, and
conventional tank type water heaters need service too, of course most
folks neglect them and so they're even less efficient, and they don't
have a very long life.
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Old 14-03-2013, 10:35 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!



"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
On 3/14/2013 3:24 PM, Ophelia wrote:
"S Viemeister" wrote
On 3/14/2013 2:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
Not sure if what he has is the same as ours, but ours has cut costs
hugely. Our serves the whole house (4 floors) with hot water.

I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
boiler?


Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

Not where I am (NY metro area), although my in-laws on Long Island had an
oil-fired system which did both central heating and hot water. Everyone
else I know in the area has separate units. The hot water is typically
provided by a large cylinder in the basement or integral garage, heated by
either gas or electricity (ours is gas). I much prefer the system we have
in Scotland, even with the inconvenience of oil deliveries (no gas mains
within a hundred miles of our house).


Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
does both central heating and hot water

--
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http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/



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Old 14-03-2013, 11:28 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'mIn Hot Water!

On 3/14/2013 12:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:

Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
does both central heating and hot water


My step-mother said that the houses in her town (Gothenburg?) was heated
by water coming in from a hot water factory and distributed by
underground pipes. That was the nuttiest thing that I ever heard. Those
Swedes!
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Old 14-03-2013, 11:55 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:06:11 -0400, Brooklyn1
wrote:

Anyone needs a new hot water heater...


Hey Sheldon!! HOT water does not need heating! What you are talking
about is a water heater!!

DUH!!!

John Kuthe...
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Old 15-03-2013, 12:01 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:15:35 -0500, jay wrote:

In article ,
sf wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:01:04 -0500, jay wrote:

I have a circulation pump that
keeps warm water in the lines and also keeps kicking on the heater to
keep the circ water hot, using fuel. In larger homes you really need a
number of them.. talking serious money now.


Another thing I haven't heard of (probably because my climate is so
moderate). Does that work with regular hot water tanks too or is it
just a tankless add on feature? Water is expensive here too, but the
sewer charge is what really kills you.


You can add a circulation pump to a traditional standing water heater
tank. It's actually a very easy DIY. More difficult plumber job for the
tankless. The pump is installed under a sink furtherest from the tank.
You need an electrical source. It has a thermostat and when water in
the line cools it pulls hot water from the tank and pushes the cooled
water through the cold side back to the tank. I have had one before and
it works well.. not this brand though.

http://tinyurl.com/bnrvhdd

I looked it up immediately after I posted and found this one
http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html Looks like a great idea and not
expensive at all. I wonder why they aren't touted more?


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Old 15-03-2013, 12:19 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 08:17:44 +1100, Jeus wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:38:18 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

On 3/14/2013 11:06 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great... had this
installed yesterday:
http://i48.tinypic.com/ofm8x.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/20p318l.jpg

http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-...-vc2837ffud-us


Why would you need to heat hot water.

Don't you mean a "water heater"?


Glad we're not discussing baby oil right now.


Okay, that made me laugh.

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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'mIn Hot Water!

On 3/14/2013 6:35 PM, Ophelia wrote:

Our unit looks exactly the same as the one Sheldon posted, and of course
does both central heating and hot water

Ours looks different, but it's an oil-fired, _externally_ mounted unit,
with masses of insulation and a weatherproof casing.


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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf wrote:




I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
boiler?


Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
never one that serves as a water heater too.


Right.
Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
incorrectly.

I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.
Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
years ago when better systems were introduced.
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf wrote:




I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
boiler?

Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
never one that serves as a water heater too.


Right.
Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
incorrectly.

I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.
Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
years ago when better systems were introduced.


I don't like the term boiler unless it's really a boiler for steam heat.
That's the only time it boils. Water heaters are not boilers, although I've
seen that happen when they build up stuff in the bottom.

Greg
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf wrote:




I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
boiler?

Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
never one that serves as a water heater too.


Right.
Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
incorrectly.


YES! I know old public buildings and some super old apartment
buildings (and those converted to condos) still operate with a boiler
system - but come on... single family HOUSES? The only "modern"
heating water source I know about is fed by the water heater, not a
boiler (mid-century modern Eichler houses and modern bathrooms with a
floor heating system in the floor). Define the parameters if it's not
a single family house, which is what I think most of the people here
were talking about in generalized terms. I don't know enough about a
whole building boiler systems to know if hot water from a faucet comes
from the same place that provides heat to the buildings or not. What
I do know is that boiler systems are not commonly used in single
family housing here... like Aga stoves, they are out of the ordinary.

I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.


Thanks! Maybe that's the case in old buildings public building or old
multi-story buildings with multiple apartments (or condo converts).
My house was built in the '20s and it has never had a boiler system.
It started off with a coal furnace. My grandparents centennial
farmhouse in rural Michigan (built in the early 1800s) didn't have a
boiler system either - it was another coal furnace and they heated
water on top of their wood burning stove.

Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
years ago when better systems were introduced.


No idea what that would be.

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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

sf wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:49:09 -0700, sf wrote:




I think yours is like mine - central heating and hot water - a combi
boiler?

Yes it is. Is that not usual in US?

I've heard of a central furnace combined with an air-conditioner, but
never one that serves as a water heater too.


Right.
Furnaces heat air, boilers heat water. The terms are often used
incorrectly.


YES! I know old public buildings and some super old apartment
buildings (and those converted to condos) still operate with a boiler
system - but come on... single family HOUSES? The only "modern"
heating water source I know about is fed by the water heater, not a
boiler (mid-century modern Eichler houses and modern bathrooms with a
floor heating system in the floor). Define the parameters if it's not
a single family house, which is what I think most of the people here
were talking about in generalized terms. I don't know enough about a
whole building boiler systems to know if hot water from a faucet comes
from the same place that provides heat to the buildings or not. What
I do know is that boiler systems are not commonly used in single
family housing here... like Aga stoves, they are out of the ordinary.

I've never seen a furnace with domestic hot water, but boilers that
both heat the house and heat the domestic water are very common.


Thanks! Maybe that's the case in old buildings public building or old
multi-story buildings with multiple apartments (or condo converts).
My house was built in the '20s and it has never had a boiler system.
It started off with a coal furnace. My grandparents centennial
farmhouse in rural Michigan (built in the early 1800s) didn't have a
boiler system either - it was another coal furnace and they heated
water on top of their wood burning stove.

Probably 90% of oil boiler are made that way, at leas until a dozen
years ago when better systems were introduced.


No idea what that would be.



I rented out a house in mass. had steam. You only need one pipe to the
radiator. You don't need pumps. Requires a stronger tank. I'm guessing it's
old style. That was 1969. Today that same house probably would cost
hundreds of dollars per month, at today's oil price.

I'm well familiar with coal heat. Coal stoves too. They even used coal in
the fireplaces, often in each room.

Greg
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Default Who Was It That Recently Asked About A Hot Water Heater -- I'm In Hot Water!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:01:04 -0500, jay wrote:

In article
,
Kalmia wrote:

On Mar 14, 12:06*pm, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Anyone needs a new hot water heater or just wants to save a bunch of
money an On-Demand Tankless hot water heater works great..


Can you give us a little 'rithmetic on cost vs. projected savings?


It will be fuzzy. Too many variables and many are not known. Every
installation is different and the costs of services are different and
hot water usage varies etc. The heater is very efficient but you can
buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost of installation in most
cases. I have one and would be just as happy with the old fashion tank.
Its a feel good kind of thing in many instances somewhat like hybrid or
electric vehicles. They cost more to buy and when you need the battery
in your Prius you just spent all that jingle you thought you were saving
at the pump. Like a fancy watch ... some people want this stuff when
they could get the time off their Iphone or Timex. Here, heating water
is cheap but the water isn't.

Also every time you crack the hot spigot open for a couple of seconds
the heater fires up and if you don't run it a while you don't get hot
water. If it is not placed in a very central location in regard to your
kitchen and baths you have to run a lot of water before the hot stuff
arrives. (Same with a standing tank) I have a circulation pump that
keeps warm water in the lines and also keeps kicking on the heater to
keep the circ water hot, using fuel. In larger homes you really need a
number of them.. talking serious money now.

AND.. they require annual maintenance to the tune of a couple hundred
bucks a pop unless you buy a pump and 5 gallons of vinegar and do it
yourself.

jay


Not a feel good thing here. When you have three adults, 2 teenage boys
and two little girls in your household a storage tank hot water system
is just not going to cut it when everyone wants a morning shower.

The closest hot water taps to the unit get hot water within seconds,
the farthest (kitchen) in about 40 seconds. That sink has a gadget to
capture the running water until it gets hot.

JB



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