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Old 13-01-2014, 05:13 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage meaning
that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is almost
the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is a
small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece of
wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive either
of our vehicles into it.

So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and saw
rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any rate,
he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some point
that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They also
had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the top.
Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space because
the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also redid
the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this. Whatever
this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
never seen anything like it.

A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a lot
of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3 month
intervals, then more like every few weeks.

When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut to
fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand that
the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space with
the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.

My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there. Which
I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of the
tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a small
sized pan for the middle.

Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having to
relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may have
caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as the
problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.

The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that looked
right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one other
part in there. Can't remember what that was.

Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6 times in
one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And it
seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.

Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call them
right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out in
the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a half an
hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are pretty
much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.

So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns out
that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the garage
watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day off.
No problems so far as I could see.

Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went off.
But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But now?
We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the point
where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before I go
to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber did
say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This last
time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before it
would light. And of course in the middle of the night.

So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and online
searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the thermocouple
should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the problems
do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.

Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the outside
open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water and I
don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with those
thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for each
sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks? Also
not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my blood so
not an option.

Anyone have any suggestions?


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Old 13-01-2014, 06:04 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of stuff about a water heater.


Anyone have any suggestions?


Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent goes to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough fumes enter the house that should be going OUT.
===

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Old 13-01-2014, 07:08 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!


"Roy" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
stuff about a water heater.


Anyone have any suggestions?


Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and
bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent goes
to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this
problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough fumes
enter the house that should be going OUT.
===

---

Thanks! If it were only twice a year, I could handle it but it's getting to
where it is once or twice a week now and many times seems to happen after
I've gone to bed. Another problem I have is that the other two who live
here love to take long showers and allow the water to run a lot to get it
super hot before they get in. As you can imagine, these things don't work
well when the pilot light is out. They also don't tell me if the water is
only warm and not hot and then the next person in the shower will get barely
warm to cold water. *sigh*

I will see if they can somehow change the way it is vented to prevent the
problem. I think the last time the plumber did say something about
downdrafting but thought it had to do with the tank itself. He had ordered
a part for this but they sent him the wrong part and due to a weekend or
holiday or something (can't remember) it was going to take several days to
get here so... He just gave me a new tank.

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Old 13-01-2014, 11:48 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:08:28 -0800, "Julie Bove"
wrote:


"Roy" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
stuff about a water heater.


Anyone have any suggestions?


Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and
bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent goes
to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this
problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough fumes
enter the house that should be going OUT.
===

---

Thanks! If it were only twice a year, I could handle it but it's getting to
where it is once or twice a week now and many times seems to happen after
I've gone to bed. Another problem I have is that the other two who live
here love to take long showers and allow the water to run a lot to get it
super hot before they get in. As you can imagine, these things don't work
well when the pilot light is out. They also don't tell me if the water is
only warm and not hot and then the next person in the shower will get barely
warm to cold water. *sigh*

I will see if they can somehow change the way it is vented to prevent the
problem. I think the last time the plumber did say something about
downdrafting but thought it had to do with the tank itself. He had ordered
a part for this but they sent him the wrong part and due to a weekend or
holiday or something (can't remember) it was going to take several days to
get here so... He just gave me a new tank.


Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.
--
Mr.E
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Old 13-01-2014, 01:21 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!


"Mr.E" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:08:28 -0800, "Julie Bove"
wrote:


"Roy" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
stuff about a water heater.


Anyone have any suggestions?


Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and
bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent
goes
to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this
problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough
fumes
enter the house that should be going OUT.
===

---

Thanks! If it were only twice a year, I could handle it but it's getting
to
where it is once or twice a week now and many times seems to happen after
I've gone to bed. Another problem I have is that the other two who live
here love to take long showers and allow the water to run a lot to get it
super hot before they get in. As you can imagine, these things don't work
well when the pilot light is out. They also don't tell me if the water is
only warm and not hot and then the next person in the shower will get
barely
warm to cold water. *sigh*

I will see if they can somehow change the way it is vented to prevent the
problem. I think the last time the plumber did say something about
downdrafting but thought it had to do with the tank itself. He had
ordered
a part for this but they sent him the wrong part and due to a weekend or
holiday or something (can't remember) it was going to take several days to
get here so... He just gave me a new tank.


Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.


Yes it does. They may well have replaced that on the first one. The last
plumber said that the slowness or quickness of the flashing meant something.
But I can't remember what. Thanks for reminding me though. Mayhaps I can
find something when I look that up. I think when I relight it, it blinks
quickly but then some time later, it blinks slowly. And then it will go
out.



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Old 13-01-2014, 02:17 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:21:34 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
"Mr.E" wrote in message

Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.


Yes it does. They may well have replaced that on the first one. The last
plumber said that the slowness or quickness of the flashing meant something.
But I can't remember what. Thanks for reminding me though. Mayhaps I can
find something when I look that up. I think when I relight it, it blinks
quickly but then some time later, it blinks slowly. And then it will go
out.


The control box seems like a good culprit. It's worth checking its electricity supply. Spikes or brown outs may be causing damage that gets worse over time.

A way out possibility is damage from mice. Any signs of rodent damage?

http://www.richardfisher.com
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Old 13-01-2014, 02:40 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:


Anyone have any suggestions?

I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair

Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
heating.

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Old 13-01-2014, 03:08 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!


"Helpful person" wrote in message
...
On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:21:34 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
"Mr.E" wrote in message

Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.


Yes it does. They may well have replaced that on the first one. The
last
plumber said that the slowness or quickness of the flashing meant
something.
But I can't remember what. Thanks for reminding me though. Mayhaps I
can
find something when I look that up. I think when I relight it, it blinks
quickly but then some time later, it blinks slowly. And then it will go
out.


The control box seems like a good culprit. It's worth checking its
electricity supply. Spikes or brown outs may be causing damage that gets
worse over time.

A way out possibility is damage from mice. Any signs of rodent damage?

http://www.richardfisher.com


I don't think any part of it is electric. It's a gas water heater. And no
rodents currently that I know of. Terminex is coming in a few days though.
We have had rats. They used to come monthly but no activity for several
years so they only come every three months now.

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Old 13-01-2014, 03:09 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:


Anyone have any suggestions?

I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair

Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
heating.


Thanks!

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Old 13-01-2014, 03:18 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Monday, January 13, 2014 10:08:01 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:

I don't think any part of it is electric. It's a gas water heater. And no
rodents currently that I know of. Terminex is coming in a few days though.
We have had rats. They used to come monthly but no activity for several
years so they only come every three months now.


I'm not too familiar with water heaters, however I wouldn't be too quick to
rule out an electric cause for the problem. The control box may be turning
off the pilot light, part of a modern safety feature. This may also
explain way it gets more and more difficult to relight. Your plumber will
know.

http://www.richardfisher.com


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Old 13-01-2014, 05:14 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On 2014-01-13 9:40 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:


Anyone have any suggestions?

I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair

Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
heating.


She will probably get some poor sucker to offer some good advice here,
and then her little mind will start coming up with excuses for why that
advice is bad.
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Old 13-01-2014, 05:39 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:13:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
wrote:

We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage meaning
that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is almost
the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is a
small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece of
wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive either
of our vehicles into it.

So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and saw
rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any rate,
he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some point
that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They also
had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the top.
Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space because
the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also redid
the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this. Whatever
this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
never seen anything like it.

A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a lot
of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3 month
intervals, then more like every few weeks.

When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut to
fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand that
the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space with
the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.

My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there. Which
I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of the
tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a small
sized pan for the middle.

Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having to
relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may have
caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as the
problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.

The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that looked
right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one other
part in there. Can't remember what that was.

Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6 times in
one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And it
seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.

Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call them
right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out in
the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a half an
hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are pretty
much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.

So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns out
that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the garage
watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day off.
No problems so far as I could see.

Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went off.
But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But now?
We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the point
where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before I go
to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber did
say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This last
time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before it
would light. And of course in the middle of the night.

So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and online
searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the thermocouple
should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the problems
do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.

Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the outside
open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water and I
don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with those
thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for each
sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks? Also
not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my blood so
not an option.

Anyone have any suggestions?


Couldn't you keep it to 100 woids or less?

Anyway your plumber is a MOROON... installed the same POS!

Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
already have the gas set up.
I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
wall:
http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg




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Old 13-01-2014, 05:42 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:08:28 -0800, "Julie Bove"
wrote:


"Roy" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
stuff about a water heater.


Anyone have any suggestions?


Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind.


In your case it's a long wind.
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Old 13-01-2014, 05:47 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
already have the gas set up.
I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
wall:

http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg


For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been the ideal setup.

http://www.richardfisher.com
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Old 13-01-2014, 06:08 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default OT Water Heater Help!

On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 09:47:37 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
already have the gas set up.
I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
wall:

http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg


For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been the ideal setup.


Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.


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