We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage meaning
that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is almost
the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is a
small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece of
wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive either
of our vehicles into it.

So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and saw
rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any rate,
he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some point
that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They also
had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the top.
Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space because
the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also redid
the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this. Whatever
this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
never seen anything like it.

A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a lot
of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3 month
intervals, then more like every few weeks.

When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut to
fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand that
the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space with
the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.

My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there. Which
I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of the
tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a small
sized pan for the middle.

Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having to
relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may have
caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as the
problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.

The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that looked
right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one other
part in there. Can't remember what that was.

Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6 times in
one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And it
seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.

Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call them
right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out in
the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a half an
hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are pretty
much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.

So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns out
that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the garage
watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day off.
No problems so far as I could see.

Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went off.
But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But now?
We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the point
where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before I go
to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber did
say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This last
time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before it
would light. And of course in the middle of the night.

So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and online
searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the thermocouple
should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the problems
do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.

Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the outside
open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water and I
don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with those
thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for each
sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks? Also
not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my blood so
not an option.

Anyone have any suggestions?

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of stuff about a water heater.
>
>
> Anyone have any suggestions?

Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent goes to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough fumes enter the house that should be going OUT.
===

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
stuff about a water heater.
>
>
> Anyone have any suggestions?

Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.

I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and
bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent goes
to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this
problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough fumes
enter the house that should be going OUT.
===

---

Thanks! If it were only twice a year, I could handle it but it's getting to
where it is once or twice a week now and many times seems to happen after
I've gone to bed. Another problem I have is that the other two who live
here love to take long showers and allow the water to run a lot to get it
super hot before they get in. As you can imagine, these things don't work
well when the pilot light is out. They also don't tell me if the water is
only warm and not hot and then the next person in the shower will get barely
warm to cold water. *sigh*

I will see if they can somehow change the way it is vented to prevent the
problem. I think the last time the plumber did say something about
downdrafting but thought it had to do with the tank itself. He had ordered
a part for this but they sent him the wrong part and due to a weekend or
holiday or something (can't remember) it was going to take several days to
get here so... He just gave me a new tank.

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:08:28 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
>stuff about a water heater.
>>
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
>vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.
>
>I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and
>bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent goes
>to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this
>problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough fumes
>enter the house that should be going OUT.
>===
>
>---
>
>Thanks! If it were only twice a year, I could handle it but it's getting to
>where it is once or twice a week now and many times seems to happen after
>I've gone to bed. Another problem I have is that the other two who live
>here love to take long showers and allow the water to run a lot to get it
>super hot before they get in. As you can imagine, these things don't work
>well when the pilot light is out. They also don't tell me if the water is
>only warm and not hot and then the next person in the shower will get barely
>warm to cold water. *sigh*
>
>I will see if they can somehow change the way it is vented to prevent the
>problem. I think the last time the plumber did say something about
>downdrafting but thought it had to do with the tank itself. He had ordered
>a part for this but they sent him the wrong part and due to a weekend or
>holiday or something (can't remember) it was going to take several days to
>get here so... He just gave me a new tank.

Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.
--
Mr.E

"Mr.E" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:08:28 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>>On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
>>stuff about a water heater.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>>Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
>>vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.
>>
>>I have had this problem when a strong wind comes from the north here and
>>bounces off my roof and down the chimney. Since the hot water tank vent
>>goes
>>to the chimney the downdraft floods over the tank. I usually have this
>>problem once or twice a year...no biggy but can be dangerous if enough
>>fumes
>>enter the house that should be going OUT.
>>===
>>
>>---
>>
>>Thanks! If it were only twice a year, I could handle it but it's getting
>>to
>>where it is once or twice a week now and many times seems to happen after
>>I've gone to bed. Another problem I have is that the other two who live
>>here love to take long showers and allow the water to run a lot to get it
>>super hot before they get in. As you can imagine, these things don't work
>>well when the pilot light is out. They also don't tell me if the water is
>>only warm and not hot and then the next person in the shower will get
>>barely
>>warm to cold water. *sigh*
>>
>>I will see if they can somehow change the way it is vented to prevent the
>>problem. I think the last time the plumber did say something about
>>downdrafting but thought it had to do with the tank itself. He had
>>ordered
>>a part for this but they sent him the wrong part and due to a weekend or
>>holiday or something (can't remember) it was going to take several days to
>>get here so... He just gave me a new tank.
>
> Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
> A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
> in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
> module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
> failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.

Yes it does. They may well have replaced that on the first one. The last
plumber said that the slowness or quickness of the flashing meant something.
But I can't remember what. Thanks for reminding me though. Mayhaps I can
find something when I look that up. I think when I relight it, it blinks
quickly but then some time later, it blinks slowly. And then it will go
out.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:21:34 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Mr.E" > wrote in message
>
> > Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
> > A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
> > in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
> > module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
> > failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.
>
> Yes it does. They may well have replaced that on the first one. The last
> plumber said that the slowness or quickness of the flashing meant something.
> But I can't remember what. Thanks for reminding me though. Mayhaps I can
> find something when I look that up. I think when I relight it, it blinks
> quickly but then some time later, it blinks slowly. And then it will go
> out.

The control box seems like a good culprit. It's worth checking its electricity supply. Spikes or brown outs may be causing damage that gets worse over time.

A way out possibility is damage from mice. Any signs of rodent damage?

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:

>
> Anyone have any suggestions?
>
I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair

Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
heating.

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:21:34 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Mr.E" > wrote in message
>>
>> > Does this tank have a blinking light on the control box?
>> > A neighbor had one of these types and it took the fifth control module
>> > in two years to finally stop the shutdowns. They would replace the
>> > module and the tank would stay lit for awhile then start random
>> > failure and was extremely hard to get a stable relight.
>>
>> Yes it does. They may well have replaced that on the first one. The
>> last
>> plumber said that the slowness or quickness of the flashing meant
>> something.
>> But I can't remember what. Thanks for reminding me though. Mayhaps I
>> can
>> find something when I look that up. I think when I relight it, it blinks
>> quickly but then some time later, it blinks slowly. And then it will go
>> out.
>
> The control box seems like a good culprit. It's worth checking its
> electricity supply. Spikes or brown outs may be causing damage that gets
> worse over time.
>
> A way out possibility is damage from mice. Any signs of rodent damage?
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com

I don't think any part of it is electric. It's a gas water heater. And no
rodents currently that I know of. Terminex is coming in a few days though.
We have had rats. They used to come monthly but no activity for several
years so they only come every three months now.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
> I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair
>
> Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
> heating.

Thanks!

On Monday, January 13, 2014 10:08:01 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> I don't think any part of it is electric. It's a gas water heater. And no
> rodents currently that I know of. Terminex is coming in a few days though.
> We have had rats. They used to come monthly but no activity for several
> years so they only come every three months now.

I'm not too familiar with water heaters, however I wouldn't be too quick to
rule out an electric cause for the problem. The control box may be turning
off the pilot light, part of a modern safety feature. This may also
explain way it gets more and more difficult to relight. Your plumber will
know.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 2014-01-13 9:40 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
> I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair
>
> Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
> heating.
>

She will probably get some poor sucker to offer some good advice here,
and then her little mind will start coming up with excuses for why that
advice is bad.

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:13:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage meaning
>that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is almost
>the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
>slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
>part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is a
>small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece of
>wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
>The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive either
>of our vehicles into it.
>
>So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and saw
>rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
>immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any rate,
>he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some point
>that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They also
>had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the top.
>Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space because
>the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also redid
>the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
>Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this. Whatever
>this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
>off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
>never seen anything like it.
>
>A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
>hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a lot
>of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3 month
>intervals, then more like every few weeks.
>
>When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut to
>fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand that
>the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space with
>the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.
>
>My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
>getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there. Which
>I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of the
>tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a small
>sized pan for the middle.
>
>Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having to
>relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may have
>caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as the
>problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.
>
>The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that looked
>right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one other
>part in there. Can't remember what that was.
>
>Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
>worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6 times in
>one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
>though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And it
>seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.
>
>Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call them
>right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out in
>the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
>claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a half an
>hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are pretty
>much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.
>
>So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns out
>that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
>side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the garage
>watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day off.
>No problems so far as I could see.
>
>Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went off.
>But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But now?
>We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the point
>where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before I go
>to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber did
>say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
>Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This last
>time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before it
>would light. And of course in the middle of the night.
>
>So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and online
>searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the thermocouple
>should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the problems
>do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
>frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.
>
>Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
>Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the outside
>open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water and I
>don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with those
>thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
>house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
>sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for each
>sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks? Also
>not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my blood so
>not an option.
>
>Anyone have any suggestions?

Couldn't you keep it to 100 woids or less?

Anyway your plumber is a MOROON... installed the same POS!

Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
already have the gas set up.
I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
wall:
http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:08:28 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13:01 PM UTC-7, Julie Bove wrote:A bunch of
>stuff about a water heater.
>>
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>Julie, I would say you have a "downdraft" problem. Wind is coming down the
>vent pipe and floods down around the pilot light and blows it out.
>
>I have had this problem when a strong wind.

In your case it's a long wind.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
> already have the gas set up.
> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
> wall:
>
> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg

For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been the ideal setup.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 09:47:37 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
> wrote:

>On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
>> already have the gas set up.
>> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
>> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
>> wall:
>>
>> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg
>
>For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been the ideal setup.

Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 1:08:24 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
> produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.

There's no need to be rude. The size of the
house is very important. The rating for a
tankless all house hot water system can be
measured in water flow per second. The required
value is usually based on the number of
bathrooms and other high flow areas. As the
required flow rate increases the cost starts
escalating. For a one bathroom house the cost
is comparatively low.

http://www.richardfisher.com

Helpful person wrote:
>
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 1:08:24 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >
> > Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
> > produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.
>
> There's no need to be rude. The size of the

That's like telling a dog there's no need to bark.

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 10:08:01 AM UTC-5, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> I don't think any part of it is electric. It's a gas water heater. And
>> no
>> rodents currently that I know of. Terminex is coming in a few days
>> though.
>> We have had rats. They used to come monthly but no activity for several
>> years so they only come every three months now.
>
> I'm not too familiar with water heaters, however I wouldn't be too quick
> to
> rule out an electric cause for the problem. The control box may be
> turning
> off the pilot light, part of a modern safety feature. This may also
> explain way it gets more and more difficult to relight. Your plumber will
> know.
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com

An electric problem wouldn't surprise me given all of the other weird
electrical problems we have had. An electrician used to own this house.
Apparently a bad electrician!

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2014-01-13 9:40 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/13/2014 12:13 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestions?
>>>
>> I have two. If you don't get help here. try alt.home.repair
>>
>> Check out www.heatinghelp.com as they have a section for domestic water
>> heating.
>>
>
> She will probably get some poor sucker to offer some good advice here, and
> then her little mind will start coming up with excuses for why that advice
> is bad.

You just want me to do that. Don't you Dave? And yet I haven't done that.
Have I?

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:13:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage
>>meaning
>>that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is almost
>>the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
>>slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
>>part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is a
>>small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece of
>>wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
>>The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive
>>either
>>of our vehicles into it.
>>
>>So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and saw
>>rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
>>immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any rate,
>>he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some point
>>that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They
>>also
>>had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the
>>top.
>>Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space
>>because
>>the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also
>>redid
>>the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
>>Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this.
>>Whatever
>>this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
>>off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
>>never seen anything like it.
>>
>>A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
>>hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a lot
>>of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3
>>month
>>intervals, then more like every few weeks.
>>
>>When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut to
>>fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand
>>that
>>the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space with
>>the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.
>>
>>My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
>>getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there.
>>Which
>>I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of the
>>tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a small
>>sized pan for the middle.
>>
>>Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having to
>>relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may have
>>caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as the
>>problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.
>>
>>The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that
>>looked
>>right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one
>>other
>>part in there. Can't remember what that was.
>>
>>Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
>>worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6 times
>>in
>>one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
>>though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And it
>>seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.
>>
>>Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call
>>them
>>right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out
>>in
>>the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
>>claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a half
>>an
>>hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are
>>pretty
>>much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.
>>
>>So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns out
>>that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
>>side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the garage
>>watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day
>>off.
>>No problems so far as I could see.
>>
>>Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went off.
>>But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But now?
>>We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the
>>point
>>where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before I
>>go
>>to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber
>>did
>>say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
>>Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This
>>last
>>time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before
>>it
>>would light. And of course in the middle of the night.
>>
>>So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and
>>online
>>searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the thermocouple
>>should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the
>>problems
>>do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
>>frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.
>>
>>Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
>>Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the outside
>>open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water and
>>I
>>don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with
>>those
>>thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
>>house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
>>sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for each
>>sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks?
>>Also
>>not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my blood
>>so
>>not an option.
>>
>>Anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Couldn't you keep it to 100 woids or less?
>
> Anyway your plumber is a MOROON... installed the same POS!
>
> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
> already have the gas set up.
> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
> wall:
> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg

I was just looking at tankless. My bro had just gotten them prior but...
Theirs were very expensive and they had to get several of them. I thought
that I needed one for each room of the house and looking online, some
sources even said that I would need one for each sink, shower, tub,
dishwasher, etc. That would be too expensive for me! But looking at sites
that sell them, like Home Depot, it looks like I might only need the one and
I don't think they are more expensive than what I have. I think my tank was
somewhere around $1,000 and it was another $1,000 for installation. But I
could be wrong on that. Only remember that the total was something like
$2,200. I do have the bill but don't want to look it up.

The tank I have is not considered to be a bad one. It's a good brand. And
the next time I need a new one I will likely go tankless. I will at least
ask about it.

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
>> already have the gas set up.
>> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
>> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
>> wall:
>>
>> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg
>
> For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been
> the ideal setup.
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com

This house is small but due to a remodel is an odd design. Two bathrooms,
one rather far from where the water heater is. So this house might require
more than one tank. Not sure. I also have an oversized bathtub. Not that
we use it for bathing. We don't. We have fallen too many times trying to
get in and out of it. It's a very bad design.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 09:47:37 -0800 (PST), Helpful person
> > wrote:
>
>>On Monday, January 13, 2014 12:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
>>> already have the gas set up.
>>> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
>>> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
>>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>>> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
>>> wall:
>>>
>>> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg
>>
>>For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been
>>the ideal setup.
>
> Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
> produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.

I don't know about that. I was reading online reviews. One guy said he was
using one at a camp. Just a sink, shower and a kitchen sink. Said if you
had more than that, it might not work. And I know that my bro had to get
more than one unit. His house is larger than mine though with 3 full baths.
..

On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:11:47 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:13:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage
>>>meaning
>>>that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is almost
>>>the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
>>>slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
>>>part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is a
>>>small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece of
>>>wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
>>>The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive
>>>either
>>>of our vehicles into it.
>>>
>>>So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and saw
>>>rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
>>>immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any rate,
>>>he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some point
>>>that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They
>>>also
>>>had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the
>>>top.
>>>Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space
>>>because
>>>the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also
>>>redid
>>>the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
>>>Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this.
>>>Whatever
>>>this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
>>>off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
>>>never seen anything like it.
>>>
>>>A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
>>>hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a lot
>>>of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3
>>>month
>>>intervals, then more like every few weeks.
>>>
>>>When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut to
>>>fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand
>>>that
>>>the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space with
>>>the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.
>>>
>>>My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
>>>getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there.
>>>Which
>>>I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of the
>>>tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a small
>>>sized pan for the middle.
>>>
>>>Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having to
>>>relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may have
>>>caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as the
>>>problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.
>>>
>>>The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that
>>>looked
>>>right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one
>>>other
>>>part in there. Can't remember what that was.
>>>
>>>Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
>>>worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6 times
>>>in
>>>one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
>>>though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And it
>>>seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.
>>>
>>>Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call
>>>them
>>>right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out
>>>in
>>>the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
>>>claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a half
>>>an
>>>hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are
>>>pretty
>>>much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.
>>>
>>>So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns out
>>>that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
>>>side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the garage
>>>watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day
>>>off.
>>>No problems so far as I could see.
>>>
>>>Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went off.
>>>But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But now?
>>>We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the
>>>point
>>>where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before I
>>>go
>>>to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber
>>>did
>>>say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
>>>Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This
>>>last
>>>time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before
>>>it
>>>would light. And of course in the middle of the night.
>>>
>>>So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and
>>>online
>>>searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the thermocouple
>>>should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the
>>>problems
>>>do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
>>>frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.
>>>
>>>Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
>>>Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the outside
>>>open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water and
>>>I
>>>don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with
>>>those
>>>thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
>>>house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
>>>sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for each
>>>sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks?
>>>Also
>>>not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my blood
>>>so
>>>not an option.
>>>
>>>Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>> Couldn't you keep it to 100 woids or less?
>>
>> Anyway your plumber is a MOROON... installed the same POS!
>>
>> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
>> already have the gas set up.
>> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
>> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
>> wall:
>> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg
>
>I was just looking at tankless. My bro had just gotten them prior but...
>Theirs were very expensive and they had to get several of them. I thought
>that I needed one for each room of the house and looking online, some
>sources even said that I would need one for each sink, shower, tub,
>dishwasher, etc. That would be too expensive for me! But looking at sites
>that sell them, like Home Depot, it looks like I might only need the one and
>I don't think they are more expensive than what I have. I think my tank was
>somewhere around $1,000 and it was another $1,000 for installation. But I
>could be wrong on that. Only remember that the total was something like
>$2,200. I do have the bill but don't want to look it up.
>
>The tank I have is not considered to be a bad one. It's a good brand. And
>the next time I need a new one I will likely go tankless. I will at least
>ask about it.

Julie Bove epitomizes ****ING IDIOT.
Pinheads the likes of Julie Bove should by law be euthanized.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

I researched tankless before I bought a new tank a couple years ago, but it would have required either
one new hole in the "skin" of the house in an inaccessible portion of wall under my deck, which is 30 inches
off the ground, because of the building code saying the vent had to be x number
of feet away from my furnace vent, or two new holes, one in the wall of the laundry room and another
in the outside skin through the garage wall.

It would have cost three times as much as a regular tank, and
I just didn't want any more holes in the outside walls. My water heater vents up and through the roof. Space
for it is no problem in my laundry room. Tankless would have been perfect for me, being the only one living
here, but installation requirements were the problem.

But never have I heard that one would need multiple units of tankless, unless someone is living in a mansion
or castle, in which case I suppose it would be possible.

N.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 6:30:38 PM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote: Some stuff.
<some deletion of material>

> On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:11:47 -0800, "Julie Bove"

>
>
> Julie Bove epitomizes ****ING IDIOT.
>
> Pinheads the likes of Julie Bove should by law be euthanized.
>
> Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

Your intolerance is showing Brooky...and it doesn't look good
on you.
===

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:11:47 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:13:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>We bought this house in 2004. Gas water heater in "garage". Garage
>>>>meaning
>>>>that this room has no heat and has a garage type door. The door is
>>>>almost
>>>>the width of my van, minus the side mirrors. The inside does extend
>>>>slightly beyond the door but not by much. It does go slightly deeper on
>>>>part of the one side where the small work bench is. Then beyond that is
>>>>a
>>>>small piece of wall, then the water heater set back between that piece
>>>>of
>>>>wall and a utility sink. Water heater is on a metal, elevated platform.
>>>>The rest of the room is used for storage as it is too small to drive
>>>>either
>>>>of our vehicles into it.
>>>>
>>>>So... Dec. 31 at midnight, I went out there to get some soda pop and
>>>>saw
>>>>rusty water beginning to trickle out of the water heater. Husband
>>>>immediately shut something off. The water to it? Not sure. At any
>>>>rate,
>>>>he did the right thing according to Day and Nite Plumbing. At some
>>>>point
>>>>that day, they came out and installed a new Bradford White tank. They
>>>>also
>>>>had to retrofit it and put one of those little tanks (overflow?) at the
>>>>top.
>>>>Plumber had a super hard time getting the new one in the tight space
>>>>because
>>>>the newer tanks are not quite as tall and much bigger around. He also
>>>>redid
>>>>the silver things (pipes?) at the top because he said they were comical.
>>>>Past owner remodeled this house and badly so likely they did this.
>>>>Whatever
>>>>this pipe/tube thing was, it was far too long and rather than cutting it
>>>>off, they just put a bizarre series of loops in it. Plumber said he had
>>>>never seen anything like it.
>>>>
>>>>A few months went by. No problems. Then the pilot light went out. We
>>>>hadn't had a windy day and I was baffled. I relit it although I had a
>>>>lot
>>>>of problems getting it to light. This kept happening, at first at 2-3
>>>>month
>>>>intervals, then more like every few weeks.
>>>>
>>>>When we bought the house, there had been a small piece of pegboard cut
>>>>to
>>>>fit that had been sitting loose and propped at the bottom of the stand
>>>>that
>>>>the tank is on. Plumber took that out as it would not fit the space
>>>>with
>>>>the new tank, sticking out off of the stand as it is.
>>>>
>>>>My dad surmised that somehow the pegboard was preventing the wind from
>>>>getting up under the tank and advised me to put something else there.
>>>>Which
>>>>I did. Three baking pans in assorted sizes. You see in the middle of
>>>>the
>>>>tank at the bottom, some parts jut downwards which is why I needed a
>>>>small
>>>>sized pan for the middle.
>>>>
>>>>Problems continued and got more frequent. When I found myself having
>>>>to
>>>>relight weekly, I called the plumber again. This time he said I may
>>>>have
>>>>caused the problem by putting the baking pans there. Obviously not as
>>>>the
>>>>problem had occurred prior and that is why I put them there.
>>>>
>>>>The wires on the front had been hanging loose. I never thought that
>>>>looked
>>>>right. He wound up replacing those, the thermocoupler and all but one
>>>>other
>>>>part in there. Can't remember what that was.
>>>>
>>>>Tank was fine for about 2 months then the problems began again. Getting
>>>>worse and worse with annoying frequency until I had to relight it 6
>>>>times
>>>>in
>>>>one day! So I called again. Had been putting off calling because even
>>>>though it is under warranty, the warranty does not include labor. And
>>>>it
>>>>seems to cost me a minimum of $250 each time they come out.
>>>>
>>>>Plumber said that he needed for me not to relight the tank and to call
>>>>them
>>>>right away to get a code from it. The problem there? It often goes out
>>>>in
>>>>the middle of the night. They can't come out right away despite them
>>>>claiming to offer 24/7 service. And that code is gone after about a
>>>>half
>>>>an
>>>>hour. So because they can never seem to get the error code, they are
>>>>pretty
>>>>much shooting in the dark as to what is wrong with it.
>>>>
>>>>So on Sept. 15, 2012, they wound up just giving me a new tank. Turns
>>>>out
>>>>that the one they had installed prior was totally dented up on the back
>>>>side. I thought perhaps this was the problem. I sat there in the
>>>>garage
>>>>watching this other plumber like a hawk. My normal plumber had the day
>>>>off.
>>>>No problems so far as I could see.
>>>>
>>>>Can't remember how long this tank lasted before the pilot light went
>>>>off.
>>>>But it did. And at first it was like 2-3 months between times. But
>>>>now?
>>>>We are down to about once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's to the
>>>>point
>>>>where I find myself checking it hourly when home and always just before
>>>>I
>>>>go
>>>>to bed. Sometimes it is windy when this happens but often not. Plumber
>>>>did
>>>>say that the only other thing that could be a problem is the roof vent.
>>>>Which when I do call them again, I will have them check. But... This
>>>>last
>>>>time I played hell relighting it. Tried for about a half an hour before
>>>>it
>>>>would light. And of course in the middle of the night.
>>>>
>>>>So... Any clues? People keep telling me it is the thermocouple and
>>>>online
>>>>searches say the same but... Searches also tell me that the
>>>>thermocouple
>>>>should last longer than that. And the weird part is that once the
>>>>problems
>>>>do start, they seem to follow the same pattern of coming with increasing
>>>>frequency. Also weird that the old tank never had to be relit.
>>>>
>>>>Could it be just because this one sticks out further into the room?
>>>>Sometimes when I am working out there with the garage door to the
>>>>outside
>>>>open, it does go out. I am just getting frustrated! I want hot water
>>>>and
>>>>I
>>>>don't want to keep calling the plumber. Also can't afford to go with
>>>>those
>>>>thankless things. Not sure how many we'd have to get. This is a small
>>>>house but we do have two bathrooms. Also a laundry room and that garage
>>>>sink. I think if I have read this correctly, I would need a tank for
>>>>each
>>>>sink. Not sure how the laundry room factors in so... Maybe 4 tanks?
>>>>Also
>>>>not sure where those tanks would be located but... Too rich for my
>>>>blood
>>>>so
>>>>not an option.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone have any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Couldn't you keep it to 100 woids or less?
>>>
>>> Anyway your plumber is a MOROON... installed the same POS!
>>>
>>> Should have installed a new tankless on-demand water heater... and you
>>> already have the gas set up.
>>> I love mine, should have done it years ago... in less than a year it
>>> has already paid for itself. Watch the short video:
>>> http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
>>> No tank, about the size of a carry on bag, sits out of the way on a
>>> wall:
>>> http://i43.tinypic.com/34slb7l.jpg
>>
>>I was just looking at tankless. My bro had just gotten them prior but...
>>Theirs were very expensive and they had to get several of them. I thought
>>that I needed one for each room of the house and looking online, some
>>sources even said that I would need one for each sink, shower, tub,
>>dishwasher, etc. That would be too expensive for me! But looking at
>>sites
>>that sell them, like Home Depot, it looks like I might only need the one
>>and
>>I don't think they are more expensive than what I have. I think my tank
>>was
>>somewhere around $1,000 and it was another $1,000 for installation. But I
>>could be wrong on that. Only remember that the total was something like
>>$2,200. I do have the bill but don't want to look it up.
>>
>>The tank I have is not considered to be a bad one. It's a good brand.
>>And
>>the next time I need a new one I will likely go tankless. I will at least
>>ask about it.
>
> Julie Bove epitomizes ****ING IDIOT.
> Pinheads the likes of Julie Bove should by law be euthanized.
> Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

Sheldon, you just don't know what you're talking about.

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
...
>I researched tankless before I bought a new tank a couple years ago, but it
>would have required either
> one new hole in the "skin" of the house in an inaccessible portion of wall
> under my deck, which is 30 inches
> off the ground, because of the building code saying the vent had to be x
> number
> of feet away from my furnace vent, or two new holes, one in the wall of
> the laundry room and another
> in the outside skin through the garage wall.
>
> It would have cost three times as much as a regular tank, and
> I just didn't want any more holes in the outside walls. My water heater
> vents up and through the roof. Space
> for it is no problem in my laundry room. Tankless would have been perfect
> for me, being the only one living
> here, but installation requirements were the problem.
>
> But never have I heard that one would need multiple units of tankless,
> unless someone is living in a mansion
> or castle, in which case I suppose it would be possible.

I'm no expert on this. But it could well be that installation would be a
problem here too.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>
>
> >>For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have been
> >>the ideal setup.
>
> > Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
> > produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.
>
> I don't know about that. I was reading online reviews. One guy said he was
> using one at a camp. Just a sink, shower and a kitchen sink. Said if you
> had more than that, it might not work. And I know that my bro had to get
> more than one unit. His house is larger than mine though with 3 full baths.
>

We still have a passive solar panel that helps keep our water heater water warm.
I don't think running cold water through a solar panel will heat it more than
a few degrees, so the tankless coil is out.

One of the advantages of a tankless coil is putting it near the point of use.
Then you don't waste gallon after gallon waiting for the water to warm up.
I have seen tiny ones under the sink in public restrooms.

In Europe, washing machines heat the water they use, to reduce the load on
the tankless heaters. You can boil your laundry if you so choose.

> wrote in message
...
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> >>For a small house with presumably just one bathroom that would have
>> >>been
>> >>the ideal setup.
>>
>> > Huh? WTF does a small house have to do with it? That unit will out
>> > produce a half dozen tank type water heaters.
>>
>> I don't know about that. I was reading online reviews. One guy said he
>> was
>> using one at a camp. Just a sink, shower and a kitchen sink. Said if
>> you
>> had more than that, it might not work. And I know that my bro had to get
>> more than one unit. His house is larger than mine though with 3 full
>> baths.
>>
>
> We still have a passive solar panel that helps keep our water heater water
> warm.
> I don't think running cold water through a solar panel will heat it more
> than
> a few degrees, so the tankless coil is out.

Solar panels don't work well here as we get so little sun.
>
> One of the advantages of a tankless coil is putting it near the point of
> use.
> Then you don't waste gallon after gallon waiting for the water to warm up.
> I have seen tiny ones under the sink in public restrooms.

I gather that is how they are used in some countries. My friend in Maylasia
has one for her bathtub. There is no other hot water in her apartment. I
asked her how she washed dishes and she said in cold water.
>
> In Europe, washing machines heat the water they use, to reduce the load on
> the tankless heaters. You can boil your laundry if you so choose.

There is some sort of heater in my washer because there are two settings.
Cold and tap cold. Difference being that in the winter, the tap cold could
be super cold. The cold setting will heat up that icy water just slightly.
I almost always wash everything in cold water. After living in military
housing all those years, we were required to do it so I got used to doing
that. Clothes are just fine. Only time I would use warm or hot water is if
for whatever reason certain bodily fluids got onto something but... In many
cases I would do a prewash in the sink in hot water and still use cold in
the washing machine.

Julie, I have a tankless water heater, one for the whole house. Mostly I love it, a minor drawback is it takes a minute or two before the hot water reaches the faucet, so I usually wash my hands in cold water. Once the hot water reaches the faucet, it's limitless. I can do laundry, dishwasher, then take a shower and not run out of hot water. The other drawback is if your electricity goes out, no more hot water. The tank is attached to a wall in the cellar and is about the size of a little flat screen tv.

On 1/13/2014 10:01 PM, Nancy2 wrote:

>
> But never have I heard that one would need multiple units of tankless, unless someone is living in a mansion
> or castle, in which case I suppose it would be possible.
>
> N.
>

Like any product, one size does not fit all. In a very large or very
long house, it can take a while for hot water to reach the faucet so a
point of use type heater is ideal and the tankless take up little space.

In my house, the points of use are not far from the tank, and indirect
fired water system that is very efficient and provides more than we can
use under even heavy household use.

While the tankless are efficient, they do need a large amount of heating
capability when they are in use, thus heavy wires or burners and vents.
Much easier to do with new construction.

On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:04:14 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> While the tankless are efficient, they do need a large amount of heating
> capability when they are in use, thus heavy wires or burners and vents.
> Much easier to do with new construction.

If I was building a new house I would give serious consideration to a central
tankless system with continuous circulation around the hot water supply pipes.

http://www.richardfisher.com

In article >,
wrote:

> Julie, I have a tankless water heater, one for the whole house. Mostly I
> love it, a minor drawback is it takes a minute or two before the hot water
> reaches the faucet, so I usually wash my hands in cold water. Once the hot
> water reaches the faucet, it's limitless. I can do laundry, dishwasher, then
> take a shower and not run out of hot water. The other drawback is if your
> electricity goes out, no more hot water. The tank is attached to a wall in
> the cellar and is about the size of a little flat screen tv.

so your tank water heater didn't take a minute or two before the hot
water reached the faucet?

so your tank water heater didn't stop producing hot water when the
electricity went out? (one would think that you had an electric water
heater)

the biggest drawback is when the water provider stops providing water,
you run out of water

> wrote in message
...
Julie, I have a tankless water heater, one for the whole house. Mostly I
love it, a minor drawback is it takes a minute or two before the hot water
reaches the faucet, so I usually wash my hands in cold water. Once the hot
water reaches the faucet, it's limitless. I can do laundry, dishwasher,
then take a shower and not run out of hot water. The other drawback is if
your electricity goes out, no more hot water. The tank is attached to a
wall in the cellar and is about the size of a little flat screen tv.

Takes a minute or two to get hot water here too. And since ours is gas, we
have hot water when the electricity goes out. Now that I think about it...
There is no electrical plug where the tank is. Which could be why tankless
is not an option. Not sure...

On 1/14/2014 3:08 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

>
> so your tank water heater didn't stop producing hot water when the
> electricity went out? (one would think that you had an electric water
> heater)
>
> the biggest drawback is when the water provider stops providing water,
> you run out of water
>

She stated before she has a gas water heater. No electricity required,
a nice feature.

I've had town water all my life. Never had a water loss in my life so
it is not much concern. If you have a well and pump, you are SOL
without a generator.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/14/2014 3:08 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>
>>
>> so your tank water heater didn't stop producing hot water when the
>> electricity went out? (one would think that you had an electric water
>> heater)
>>
>> the biggest drawback is when the water provider stops providing water,
>> you run out of water
>>
>
> She stated before she has a gas water heater. No electricity required, a
> nice feature.
>
> I've had town water all my life. Never had a water loss in my life so it
> is not much concern. If you have a well and pump, you are SOL without a
> generator.

The only time I had no water, or had water but was instructed not to use it
was in military housing. We were also instructed to keep jugs of it for the
toilet but I never needed it for that. When they did shut off the water it
was only for perhaps 2 hours and they did notify us in advance.

Malcolm,

The hot water from my tankless water heater takes longer to reach the faucet than the old tank did because with the old tank the water was already hot. Therefore, it gets to the sink sooner. With a tankless, it takes a little longer.

With my old tank (natural gas) if we lost electricity, we still had hot water for showers, dishes, etc. The tankless is electric, so no power, no water.

In article >,
Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>On 1/14/2014 3:08 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>
>>
>> so your tank water heater didn't stop producing hot water when the
>> electricity went out? (one would think that you had an electric water
>> heater)
>>
>> the biggest drawback is when the water provider stops providing water,
>> you run out of water
>>
>
>She stated before she has a gas water heater. No electricity required,
>a nice feature.

I've got a high-efficiency gas-fired tank water heater.
No electricity, no hot water. Its controller won't work on generator
power (too "dirty"). Luckily, we rarely have long power outages.
If we had a sustained power outage, DH would figure out some way
to condition the power.

>I've had town water all my life. Never had a water loss in my life so
>it is not much concern. If you have a well and pump, you are SOL
>without a generator.

After the Great Eastern Power Failure of 2003, we had a boil order
due to low pressure in the system, but at least we had water. I
was really glad I'd hooked up to city water and sewer in 2001.

Cindy Hamilton
--

In article >,
wrote:

> Malcolm,
>
> The hot water from my tankless water heater takes longer to reach the faucet
> than the old tank did because with the old tank the water was already hot.
> Therefore, it gets to the sink sooner. With a tankless, it takes a little
> longer.
>
> With my old tank (natural gas) if we lost electricity, we still had hot water
> for showers, dishes, etc. The tankless is electric, so no power, no water.

if it were I, I'd never go electric tankless, but sometimes you must.

but I've never understood the "showers, dishes, etc" argument for a tank
water heater. if you can't go a few days with navy baths and cold water
dish washing, you are much too fastidious for me

On Tue, 14 Jan 2014 22:38:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 1/14/2014 3:08 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>
>>
>> so your tank water heater didn't stop producing hot water when the
>> electricity went out? (one would think that you had an electric water
>> heater)
>>
>> the biggest drawback is when the water provider stops providing water,
>> you run out of water
>>
>
>She stated before she has a gas water heater. No electricity required,
>a nice feature.

Gas water heaters I've had still needed electricity for the thermostat
and igniter, same as a gas oven, without electricity the solinoid
closes and no gas flows. Even my new tankless on-demand gas water
heater needs 110V for the controls to operate, without electricity it
won't ignite, same as my pilotless gas stove top burners won't ignite
lest I use a match... but without electricity the oven can't operate.
All the above reasons are why I had a ventless gas heater installed,
it needs no electric and needs no chimney... it heats my house during
a power outage in winter so my pipes won't freeze.