http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...vSP_story.html
(sometimes I think that the WP is the ONLY place you can find
comments for her column....there are several dozen so far.)

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Rarely is it that I find myself in disagreement
with you, dear Miss Manners. However, I take issue with your taking to
task dinner and party guests for bringing “hostess gifts” in the form
of food and beverages. And that you further discourage the “potluck”
practice of everyone bringing something for the meal.

Perhaps being so successful and talented has blinded you to the fact
that many others have not been as fortunate or industrious. Especially
from the vantage point of Washington, D.C., where I presume many
continue to fiddle and entertain lavishly while Rome burns.

Perhaps we common people will be much happier if we can continue to
afford to socialize by bringing along something for everyone to enjoy
rather than everyone sitting and eating alone in their own homes
because they cannot afford to entertain.

Now excuse me, I have to go make a salad to bring to my garden club’s
fall dinner.


GENTLE READER: Must you declare class warfare on cooks whose notion of
hospitality is to provide full meals for their guests?

And anyway, don’t you have the argument upside down? In religious
texts, we learn about the virtue of the poor who freely share what
little they have, while those who can afford more stint on
hospitality.

Cooperative gatherings, such as your garden club dinner, were not
under discussion. When Miss Manners isn’t obliged (it’s a residential
requirement) to accompany the destruction of Our Nation’s Capital on
the violin, she happily participates in such a group.

The issue was dinner parties for which the guests are unpleasantly
surprised by being given catering assignments, or at which hosts are
dismayed at being expected to serve courses replacing those they had
planned.

There is no legitimate financial angle here. Unless we are speaking of
those who always expect others to feed them and never reciprocate, it
costs no more to take an occasional turn serving a full meal than it
does to have to contribute every time one goes out. Presuming a social
circle of five households and meals of three courses, it actually
would cost less.

(end)

For those who find MM's answer too vague, here's another, from an Ask
Amy reader:

"(Those) who object to potluck dinners should be aware that there is a
difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
one to which guests are invited, only to be asked to supply the
hostess's menu. I agree that the latter is inappropriate."

Here's the letter that inspired it:

Dear Amy: I just received yet another invitation to a "party" to which
I am supposed to bring food and drink. I have noticed that over the
years this "potluck" trend is increasing.

I think potlucks are fine for impoverished grad students or committee
meetings, but it seems to me that two gainfully employed adults who
own their home should not expect their guests to provide refreshments
for themselves.

If the excuse is that both are working and have no time to prepare, I
would argue that the same is true for their guests. If cash is short,
a big pot of soup and some crusty bread make fine fare. My
understanding is that hospitality means sharing what you have with
your friends, not asking them to pay for your "party."

I have taken to simply declining without explanation invitations that
require me to provide refreshments as price of admission. I am
wondering if I am the only person who is fed up with this whole thing.
- Tired Of Cooking

Dear Tired: I have also noticed an increase in potlucking and agree
with you that, depending on the event, bringing your own food and
drink to a dinner party hardly seems like hospitality.

Now that you've thrown down the cassoulet, let's see how others
respond.

(end)

Lenona.

On Jan 4, 1:27*pm, Lenona > wrote:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...ers-potluck-is...
> *(sometimes I think that the WP is the ONLY place you can find
> comments for her column....there are several dozen so far.)
>
> DEAR MISS MANNERS: Rarely is it that I find myself in disagreement
> with you, dear Miss Manners. However, I take issue with your taking to
> task dinner and party guests for bringing “hostess gifts” in the form
> of food and beverages. And that you further discourage the “potluck”
> practice of everyone bringing something for the meal.
>
> Perhaps being so successful and talented has blinded you to the fact
> that many others have not been as fortunate or industrious. Especially
> from the vantage point of Washington, D.C., where I presume many
> continue to fiddle and entertain lavishly while Rome burns.
>
> Perhaps we common people will be much happier if we can continue to
> afford to socialize by bringing along something for everyone to enjoy
> rather than everyone sitting and eating alone in their own homes
> because they cannot afford to entertain.
>
> Now excuse me, I have to go make a salad to bring to my garden club’s
> fall dinner.
>
> GENTLE READER: Must you declare class warfare on cooks whose notion of
> hospitality is to provide full meals for their guests?
>
> And anyway, don’t you have the argument upside down? In religious
> texts, we learn about the virtue of the poor who freely share what
> little they have, while those who can afford more stint on
> hospitality.
>
> Cooperative gatherings, such as your garden club dinner, were not
> under discussion. When Miss Manners isn’t obliged (it’s a residential
> requirement) to accompany the destruction of Our Nation’s Capital on
> the violin, she happily participates in such a group.
>
> The issue was dinner parties for which the guests are unpleasantly
> surprised by being given catering assignments, or at which hosts are
> dismayed at being expected to serve courses replacing those they had
> planned.
>
> There is no legitimate financial angle here. Unless we are speaking of
> those who always expect others to feed them and never reciprocate, it
> costs no more to take an occasional turn serving a full meal than it
> does to have to contribute every time one goes out. Presuming a social
> circle of five households and meals of three courses, it actually
> would cost less.
>
> (end)
>
> For those who find MM's answer too vague, here's another, from an Ask
> Amy reader:
>
> "(Those) who object to potluck dinners should be aware that there is a
> difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
> one to which guests are invited, only to be asked to supply the
> hostess's menu. I agree that the latter is inappropriate."
>
> Here's the letter that inspired it:
>
> Dear Amy: I just received yet another invitation to a "party" to which
> I am supposed to bring food and drink. I have noticed that over the
> years this "potluck" trend is increasing.
>
> I think potlucks are fine for impoverished grad students or committee
> meetings, but it seems to me that two gainfully employed adults who
> own their home should not expect their guests to provide refreshments
> for themselves.
>
> If the excuse is that both are working and have no time to prepare, I
> would argue that the same is true for their guests. If cash is short,
> a big pot of soup and some crusty bread make fine fare. My
> understanding is that hospitality means sharing what you have with
> your friends, not asking them to pay for your "party."
>
> I have taken to simply declining without explanation invitations that
> require me to provide refreshments as price of admission. I am
> wondering if I am the only person who is fed up with this whole thing.
> - Tired Of Cooking
>
> Dear Tired: I have also noticed an increase in potlucking and agree
> with you that, depending on the event, bringing your own food and
> drink to a dinner party hardly seems like hospitality.
>
> Now that you've thrown down the cassoulet, let's see how others
> respond.
>
> (end)
>
> Lenona.

I'm waiting for the wedding invite which tells me to bring food - Ha.

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
news:43de64fd-a064-4240-95f1-

I'm waiting for the wedding invite which tells me to bring food - Ha.

=========

What? You haven't received one yet? I think the outdoor weddings at the park
are a prime target for that in the near future, along with telling you how
much to contribute to the honeymoon, the first home etc.

Cheri

On Jan 4, 11:11*am, "Cheri" > wrote:
> "Kalmia" > wrote in message
>
> news:43de64fd-a064-4240-95f1-
>
> I'm waiting for the wedding invite which tells me to bring food - Ha.
>
> =========
>
> What? You haven't received one yet? I think the outdoor weddings at the park
> are a prime target for that in the near future, along with telling you how
> much to contribute to the honeymoon, the first home etc.
>
> Cheri

Sorta like a Potluck Wedding!!

"Chemo the Clown" > ha scritto nel messaggio

Sorta like a Potluck Wedding!!

As they usually were in my era. You didn't know what you were getting until
too late.

On 2012-01-04, Lenona > wrote:

> difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
> one to which guests are invited.......

That's the beauty of invitations, even to potlucks. You can always
decline.

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On Jan 4, 11:53*am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2012-01-04, Lenona > wrote:
>
> > difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
> > one to which guests are invited.......
>
> That's the beauty of invitations, even to potlucks. *You can always
> decline.
>
And if you accept a dinner invitation and then after that the host/ess
calls to turn it into a potluck do you feel free to decline at that
point? That's not happened to me, I hasten to add, but I suppose it
could. I can see declining but it would be awkward. -aem

On 2012-01-04, aem > wrote:

> And if you accept a dinner invitation and then after that the host/ess
> calls to turn it into a potluck do you feel free to decline at that
> point?

Certainly. Why shouldn't I? The hostess can change his/her plans but I
can't? That's absurd.

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On Jan 4, 11:47*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Chemo the Clown" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> Sorta like a Potluck Wedding!!
>
> As they usually were in my era. *You didn't know what you were getting until
> too late.

Like when the parents picked out the groom?

On 04/01/2012 2:58 PM, aem wrote:

> And if you accept a dinner invitation and then after that the host/ess
> calls to turn it into a potluck do you feel free to decline at that
> point? That's not happened to me, I hasten to add, but I suppose it
> could. I can see declining but it would be awkward. -aem

Yes. It would be awkward. It might make you look cheap or lazy... like
the host(ess) that changed its mind to make it a pot luck.

I figure there are times and places for potluck. They are a good idea
for groups of people who aren't all that close, who like to get together
and socialize but don't feel obligated to pay for everyone.

I have friends who host pot luck parties and invite people who like to
cook good food. There are always lots of interesting foods and
interesting people.

We used to have pot luck Boxing Day for my wife's family. We always used
to have my parents and a few others for Christmas Eve and in my parents
later years we had Christmas dinner here. Stores were close, ruling out
last minute shopping, and we simply didn't have time to prepare another
big spread, or the room in the fridge to store more food.

And then there are deals like a friend of mine was "invited" to a few
years ago, previously discussed here..... a neighbour was throwing a
party for her chef husband. Our friend was asked to bring enough roast
beef tenderloin for everyone.... two whole tenderloins, plus two bottles
of wine and the hostess gave her the names of the bottles, and both
expensive. Our friend initially accepted but later called and made an
excuse not to go. Then she later heard from another neighbour who had
been invited and was asked to bring those items.

On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:

>
> Like when the parents picked out the groom?


Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
business associates. Their son came to live in Canada and the in-laws
always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
bride that they had picked out for him.

I've never heard of sending out an invitation to a potluck dinner.
Usually with a potluck everyone involved knows it's a potluck. No one
really does the inviting. You just get a bunch of friends or family
together, decide where to have it, and go from there. When I was
growing up, our Christmas and Easter dinners were always potlucks with
my mom's family. She was one of seven children so there was always a
ton of food.

On the other hand, if I receive an invitation to dinner, whether it's
a written invitation or by phone, and I'm asked to contribute
something I'm definitely turning it down. I also might reconsider
whether I want to socialize with that person anymore.

On 1/4/2012 4:19 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:
>
>>
>> Like when the parents picked out the groom?
>
>
> Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
> business associates. Their son came to live in Canada and the in-laws
> always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
> his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
> a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
> bride that they had picked out for him.

At least the guys I knew flew home to India to be presented
with a few options to choose from, not have the final decision
made for him.

nancy

> wrote:

>I've never heard of sending out an invitation to a potluck dinner.

On some level, an invitation however informal must be issued, otherwise
how would people know to show up at the potluck?

>Usually with a potluck everyone involved knows it's a potluck. No one
>really does the inviting.

Unless it's being held in a free, public space such as a park, someone
agreed to supply the location of the potluck. Said person is by default
the host of the potluck; has in effect invited people over, even if
by word of mouth; and also can set the rules of the event (which
might include micromanaging the potluck items being brought).

Back to Miss Manners, if the event is not a potluck, if the
event is a dinner party, then it is the height of tackiness to
bring over food or beverage with an *absolute expectation* that
said items be consumed during the event. But it's perfectly
okay to bring them as gifts for the host. Who can them decide
whether to serve them. Guests should never try to disrupt a
host's food or beverage or entertainment plans.


Steve

Nancy Young wrote:

>On 1/4/2012 4:19 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Like when the parents picked out the groom?
>>
>>
>> Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
>> business associates. Their son came to live in Canada and the in-laws
>> always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
>> his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
>> a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
>> bride that they had picked out for him.
>
>At least the guys I knew flew home to India to be presented
>with a few options to choose from, not have the final decision
>made for him.
>
>nancy

What a great concept, it's like going to the Buick dealer, a guy gets
to test drive a half dozen models.... I'll take the one with the big
bumpers. LOL

On Jan 4, 4:03*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
> >On 1/4/2012 4:19 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:
>
> >>> Like when the parents picked out the groom?
>
> >> Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
> >> business associates. Their son came to live in Canada and the in-laws
> >> always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
> >> his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
> >> a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
> >> bride that they had picked out for him.
>
> >At least the guys I knew flew home to India to be presented
> >with a few options to choose from, not have the final decision
> >made for him.
>
> >nancy
>
> What a great concept, it's like going to the Buick dealer, a guy gets
> to test drive a half dozen models.... I'll take the one with the big
> bumpers. LOL

I doubt he gets to "test drive" any of them.

--Bryan

On Jan 4, 4:19*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:
>
>
>
> > Like when the parents picked out the groom?
>
> Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
> business associates. Their son came to live in *Canada and the in-laws
> always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
> his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
> a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
> bride that they had picked out for him.

Father Maybe Knows Best.

I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:50:24 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
> wrote:

>On Jan 4, 4:19*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Like when the parents picked out the groom?
>>
>> Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
>> business associates. Their son came to live in *Canada and the in-laws
>> always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
>> his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
>> a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
>> bride that they had picked out for him.
>
>Father Maybe Knows Best.
>
> I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?

Probably less than the murder rate.

In article
>,
Kalmia > wrote:

>
> Father Maybe Knows Best.
>
> I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?

I know of only one arranged marriage (SEAsian immigrants) and it ended
in divorce. The bride was willing because she felt her parents had
only her best interests at heart and would choose well for her. Not so
much.
--
Barb,
http://web.me.com/barbschaller September 5, 2011

On 1/4/2012 2:53 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-01-04, > wrote:
>
>> difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
>> one to which guests are invited.......
>
> That's the beauty of invitations, even to potlucks. You can always
> decline.
>
> nb
>
My daughter's marching band has a potluck for over a thousand, and
charges admission because they buy chicken.

I'm not going next year. It should be one or the other.

--
Yours,
Dan S.

On 1/4/2012 2:58 PM, aem wrote:
> On Jan 4, 11:53 am, > wrote:
>> On 2012-01-04, > wrote:
>>
>>> difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
>>> one to which guests are invited.......
>>
>> That's the beauty of invitations, even to potlucks. You can always
>> decline.
>>
> And if you accept a dinner invitation and then after that the host/ess
> calls to turn it into a potluck do you feel free to decline at that
> point? That's not happened to me, I hasten to add, but I suppose it
> could. I can see declining but it would be awkward. -aem

Just wait till the night of and make an random excuse not to come. It's
not like you're putting her out a place setting.

--
Yours,
Dan S.

"DanS." <>>
> My daughter's marching band has a potluck for over a thousand, and charges
> admission because they buy chicken.
>
> I'm not going next year. It should be one or the other.
>
Awww now, Dan. Don't be that way. Being in a marching band is such an
important part of an education. We'll 'assume' that they learn some music
but they also learn teamwork and struggling until they get it right. And
better. Our schools have taken a lethal hit in funding; support them every
way you can. Bake a cake, put on your best bib and tucker and GO. Wonder
what a tucker is? Polly

On Jan 4, 4:56*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> > wrote:
> >I've never heard of sending out an invitation to a potluck dinner.
>
> On some level, an invitation however informal must be issued, otherwise
> how would people know to show up at the potluck?
> Steve


Not necessarily. You could be with a group of friends or family and
someone could bring up the idea. Then, someone else could say, "Well,
let's have it at our house." I wouldn't call that an invitation.
That's just someone agreeing to host. No one I know issues
invitations to potlucks. You simply take turns.

On 2012-01-05, Polly Esther > wrote:
>>
> Awww now, Dan. Don't be that way. Being in a marching band is such an
> important part of an education. We'll 'assume' that they learn some music
> but they also learn teamwork and struggling until they get it right.

....OR GET BEAT TO DEATH!! .....whichever come first.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...102715,00.html

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On Jan 4, 6:30*pm, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *Kalmia > wrote:
>
> > Father Maybe Knows Best.
>
> > *I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?
>
> I know of only one arranged marriage (SEAsian immigrants) and it ended
> in divorce. * The bride was willing because she felt her parents had
> only her best interests at heart and would choose well for her. *Not so
> much.


I have a coworker from Bangladesh who said this last week when we were
talking about it. She is usually positive when she talks about it, but
I know from various things said over the years that she was
considering leaving him several years ago. She was asking how to
direct deposit part of her paycheck and get cash for some of it so
that she could hide it.

I also know that she must comply whether she wants to or not. She has
a lot of health problems, constant pain issues. She almost died when
her third son was born. She told me she had to have an abortion later
because it was unsafe for her to carry another child. Yet last year,
she wanted help with a pregnancy test, and she was out sick the whole
next week.

Her youngest son is 13 or 14 now, and she still has to cook all their
meals while working full time. She has to get up early and cook their
food for the day so that all they have to do is reheat it in the
microwave. She is a slave in her own home.

I have known her for over 10 years now, and I think things are better
for her than they used to be. Her husband seems to help her a little
bit now with all her health problems. But it doesn't seem like a true
loving relationship. I've never heard about an anniverssary, going
out, or even any sign of loving her husband or being loved by him. It
sounds more like a working relationship.

She also recently asked me if my dad ever pushes me to get married. I
am one year younger than her, and I have never gotten married. Because
of our different cultures, her situation seems very unfair and
horrible to me. Yet she is completely puzzled by my lifestyle. She
recently pointed out that another coworker, from India, will probably
be married within the next year as most ladies are married by then.
That girl is only 22 and she is expected to marry whoever her parents
pick out for her. She just recently got back from a trip to India
where her sister got married as well as 4 others (friends, I assume.
She said she attended 5 weddings).

On Jan 4, 8:17*pm, "DanS." > wrote:
> On 1/4/2012 2:53 PM, notbob wrote:> On 2012-01-04, > *wrote:
>
> >> difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
> >> one to which guests are invited.......
>
> > That's the beauty of invitations, even to potlucks. *You can always
> > decline.
>
> > nb
>
> My daughter's marching band has a potluck for over a thousand, and
> charges admission because they buy chicken.
>
> I'm not going next year. *It should be one or the other.

I went to a fundraiser event that charged $10 per person which
included renting the cabin, paper plates, untensils, fried chicken,
and some door prizes. Everybody was asked to bring a salad or dessert.
There was also an auction that was a lot of fun, and we raised over
$1000 for the event.

If the purpose is a fund raiser as I would assume the marching band
was doing, then I don't see a problem with paying and bringing
something.

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 4, 4:19 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 04/01/2012 3:14 PM, Chemo the Clown wrote:
>
>
>
> > Like when the parents picked out the groom?
>
> Or the bride. My in-laws had some friends from India. The men were
> business associates. Their son came to live in Canada and the in-laws
> always tried to include him in things. One day he got a phone call from
> his family. His mother was deathly ill with a kidney problem. He got on
> a plane and scooted back home to find his mother in good health, and the
> bride that they had picked out for him.

Father Maybe Knows Best.

I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?

My only experience was with my late Mom's neighbour and good friend ( she
was a god-send in my Mom's later years). Her daughter only met her future
husband two weeks before the wedding. They married and moved out west away
from her family. It lasted less than a year. So sad...she is a lovely
girl. However, I'm glad she had the gumption to get out of it when it went
wrong.....Sharon in Canada

" wrote:
>
> another coworker, from India, will probably
> be married within the next year as most ladies are married by then.
> That girl is only 22 and she is expected to marry whoever her parents
> pick out for her.

Yikes. Hope her parents pick well. :-O

That said, with the high divorce rates these days, it probably doesn't
matter who picks your mate. Just enjoy it while it lasts.

Gary

On 1/5/2012 7:58 AM, biig wrote:
>> > wrote

>> I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?
>
> My only experience was with my late Mom's neighbour and good friend ( she
> was a god-send in my Mom's later years). Her daughter only met her future
> husband two weeks before the wedding. They married and moved out west away
> from her family. It lasted less than a year. So sad...she is a lovely
> girl. However, I'm glad she had the gumption to get out of it when it went
> wrong.....Sharon in Canada

I worked with one guy from India who was out of central casting as
the scary guy in an alley in a Disney fairy tale. He had a knife scar
right down his face and an evil glint in his eye. I'm serious. He was
a sadist. He actually inflicted pain me at work, and he later did the
same arm-pinching thing to our (female) boss.

Not knowing about this arranged marriage business at the time, I
marveled that he was married to the most stunningly gorgeous
woman around. How did she get stuck with such a creep?

She waited until they bought a house and she left him. He couldn't
just take all their money and hide it. Nice move, and the other
Indian guys were furious about that, as if she shouldn't get half.
She had a better paying job than he did. I learned later how much
he made her suffer with beatings.

The other guys seemed happy with their wives, but that one made me
think how awful that you could be given to someone you hate.

nancy

On 1/5/2012 6:17 AM, wrote:
> On Jan 4, 8:17 pm, > wrote:
>> On 1/4/2012 2:53 PM, notbob wrote:> On 2012-01-04, > wrote:
>>
>>>> difference between a dinner that everyone agrees will be shared -- and
>>>> one to which guests are invited.......
>>
>>> That's the beauty of invitations, even to potlucks. You can always
>>> decline.
>>
>>> nb
>>
>> My daughter's marching band has a potluck for over a thousand, and
>> charges admission because they buy chicken.
>>
>> I'm not going next year. It should be one or the other.
>
> I went to a fundraiser event that charged $10 per person which
> included renting the cabin, paper plates, untensils, fried chicken,
> and some door prizes. Everybody was asked to bring a salad or dessert.
> There was also an auction that was a lot of fun, and we raised over
> $1000 for the event.
>
> If the purpose is a fund raiser as I would assume the marching band
> was doing, then I don't see a problem with paying and bringing
> something.

You might have a point. They do do a /lot/ of fund raisers, and they
want over $300 a year per kid on top of those. It all gets kind of
ridiculous.

--
Yours,
Dan S.

"Nancy Young" <replyto@inemail> wrote in message
...
> On 1/5/2012 7:58 AM, biig wrote:
>>> > wrote
>
>>> I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?
>>
>> My only experience was with my late Mom's neighbour and good friend
>> ( she
>> was a god-send in my Mom's later years). Her daughter only met her
>> future
>> husband two weeks before the wedding. They married and moved out west
>> away
>> from her family. It lasted less than a year. So sad...she is a lovely
>> girl. However, I'm glad she had the gumption to get out of it when it
>> went
>> wrong.....Sharon in Canada
>
> I worked with one guy from India who was out of central casting as
> the scary guy in an alley in a Disney fairy tale. He had a knife scar
> right down his face and an evil glint in his eye. I'm serious. He was a
> sadist. He actually inflicted pain me at work, and he later did the same
> arm-pinching thing to our (female) boss.
>
> Not knowing about this arranged marriage business at the time, I
> marveled that he was married to the most stunningly gorgeous
> woman around. How did she get stuck with such a creep?
>
> She waited until they bought a house and she left him. He couldn't
> just take all their money and hide it. Nice move, and the other
> Indian guys were furious about that, as if she shouldn't get half.
> She had a better paying job than he did. I learned later how much
> he made her suffer with beatings.
>
> The other guys seemed happy with their wives, but that one made me
> think how awful that you could be given to someone you hate.
>
> nancy

It's scary....The bride's father had died a few years before the
marriage and I think she went through with the wedding to honour him. They
are Indian Muslims and all three children respect their mother enough to do
it, I guess. The whole family were very good to my Mom and were a God-send
since myself and my sisters all live hundreds of miles away. We still keep
in touch especially at the anniversary of Mom's passing and Mother's Day. It
would appear that the women in the family haven't come so far in that
culture. .....Sharon

> wrote:

>On Jan 4, 4:56*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:

>> On some level, an invitation however informal must be issued, otherwise
>> how would people know to show up at the potluck?

>Not necessarily. You could be with a group of friends or family and
>someone could bring up the idea. Then, someone else could say, "Well,
>let's have it at our house." I wouldn't call that an invitation.

I'd call it an invitation on some level.

>No one I know issues invitations to potlucks. You simply take turns.

I only go to one regularly held potluck, and the invitation is blasted
out to an email list of people each time.

I do not myself hold potlucks.

Steve

wrote:
>I have a coworker from Bangladesh who said this last week when we were
>talking about it. She is usually positive when she talks about it, but
>I know from various things said over the years that she was
>considering leaving him several years ago. She was asking how to
>direct deposit part of her paycheck and get cash for some of it so
>that she could hide it.
>Her youngest son is 13 or 14 now, and she still has to cook all their
>meals while working full time. She has to get up early and cook their
>food for the day so that all they have to do is reheat it in the
>microwave. She is a slave in her own home.

I would hardly consider that slavery. How is that different from women who cook
for the week and recycle basic dishes into different meals? She just does it
every day rather than once a week. If she spent a few hours on weekends cooking
and vacuum sealing, she wouldn't have to get up earlier each day.

>I have known her for over 10 years now, and I think things are better
>for her than they used to be. Her husband seems to help her a little
>bit now with all her health problems. But it doesn't seem like a true
>loving relationship. I've never heard about an anniverssary, going
>out, or even any sign of loving her husband or being loved by him. It
>sounds more like a working relationship.

Plenty of American relationships start out romantically and then evolve or
devolve into the kind of working relationship you describe.

>She also recently asked me if my dad ever pushes me to get married. I
>am one year younger than her, and I have never gotten married. Because
>of our different cultures, her situation seems very unfair and
>horrible to me. Yet she is completely puzzled by my lifestyle.

Our Western lifestyle seems great to us when it works as planned, when people
pair up during high school or college and live happily ever after. I'm 39,
divorced and having terrible luck finding a suitable partner who actually wants
to have a family. I find women who want to be just friends or date casually, as
well as a few more who view me as a mere sexual experiment. Each interaction
with a potential partner saps a little more of my self esteem and romantic
energy. How is my life better than an arranged marriage? I have the freedom to
choose, yet I am hardly ever chosen because I'm totally blind and overweight.
Many American women have their heads full of Hollywood-generated romantic
fantasies about their ideal type and relationship trajectory. Fortunately for
them, younger men are all too willing to reinforce all those caricatures in
order to score temporary or permanent relationships. In truth, I would probably
be more valued in Indian culture because of my musical and academic
accomplishments, involvement with Indian classical music and desire to have a
family. Indian and other foreign women are not looking to be swept off their
feet or erotically dazzled all the time. Indian men in turn don't expect their
wives to be housekeepers and mothers during the day and transform into
strippers at night.

Orlando

replyto@inemail wrote:
>The other guys seemed happy with their wives, but that one made me
>think how awful that you could be given to someone you hate.

Many arranged marriages are predicated on mutual consent between bride and
groom. Many are likewise called off because one or both refuse to consent. The
up side is that brides and grooms have perhaps more realistic criteria for
giving consent than Westerners, who tend to go for specific types or courtship
rituals rather than long-range considerations.

Orlando

On Jan 5, 6:14*am, "
> wrote:
>
>
> I have a coworker from Bangladesh who said this last week when we were
> talking about it. She is usually positive when she talks about it, but
> I know from various things said over the years that she was
> considering leaving him several years ago. She was asking how to
> direct deposit part of her paycheck and get cash for some of it so
> that she could hide it.

She'd better think ahead to W-2 time and how she's going to hide THAT.
>
>
> Her youngest son is 13 or 14 now, and she still has to cook all their
> meals while working full time. She has to get up early and cook their
> food for the day so that all they have to do is reheat it in the
> microwave. She is a slave in *her own home.

Shooot, my mother did the same. No mike in those days, but she
managed a full time job and kept the house going, plus cooked most
meals from scratch. Eating out only happened when on a road trip.

>
> I have known her for over 10 years now, and I think things are better
> for her than they used to be. Her husband seems to help her a little
> bit now with all her health problems. But it doesn't seem like a true
> loving relationship. I've never heard about an anniverssary, going
> out, or even any sign of loving her husband or being loved by him. It
> sounds more like a working relationship.
>

Shooot again - for how many of us have the moonlight and roses
continued? If she's not getting beat up, she should consider herself
ahead of the game.

On Jan 5, 8:43*am, Nancy Young <replyto@inemail> wrote:
> On 1/5/2012 7:58 AM, biig wrote:
>
> >> > *wrote
> >> * I wonder what the divorce rate is for these arranged marriages?
>
> > * *My only experience was with my late Mom's neighbour and good friend ( she
> > was a god-send in my Mom's later years). *Her daughter only met her future
> > husband two weeks before the wedding. *They married and moved out west away
> > from her family. *It lasted less than a year. *So sad...she is a lovely
> > girl. *However, I'm glad she had the gumption to get out of it when it went
> > wrong.....Sharon in Canada
>
> I worked with one guy from India who was out of central casting as
> the scary guy in an alley in a Disney fairy tale. *He had a knife scar
> right down his face and an evil glint in his eye. *I'm serious. *He was
> a sadist. *He actually inflicted pain me at work, and he later did the
> same arm-pinching thing to our (female) boss.
>
> Not knowing about this arranged marriage business at the time, I
> marveled that he was married to the most stunningly gorgeous
> woman around. *How did she get stuck with such a creep?
>
> She waited until they bought a house and she left him. *He couldn't
> just take all their money and hide it. *Nice move, and the other
> Indian guys were furious about that, as if she shouldn't get half.
> She had a better paying job than he did. *I learned later how much
> he made her suffer with beatings.
>

Did she have the brute arrested and charged?

On 1/5/2012 5:05 PM, Kalmia wrote:
> On Jan 5, 8:43 am, Nancy Young<replyto@inemail> wrote:

>> I worked with one guy from India who was out of central casting as
>> the scary guy in an alley in a Disney fairy tale. He had a knife scar
>> right down his face and an evil glint in his eye. I'm serious. He was
>> a sadist. He actually inflicted pain me at work, and he later did the
>> same arm-pinching thing to our (female) boss.
>>
>> Not knowing about this arranged marriage business at the time, I
>> marveled that he was married to the most stunningly gorgeous
>> woman around. How did she get stuck with such a creep?
>>
>> She waited until they bought a house and she left him. He couldn't
>> just take all their money and hide it. Nice move, and the other
>> Indian guys were furious about that, as if she shouldn't get half.
>> She had a better paying job than he did. I learned later how much
>> he made her suffer with beatings.
>>
>
> Did she have the brute arrested and charged?

Before I knew what was going on, I was nice to him even though
I just didn't like him or how he looked at me. That's before he
hurt me, of course. He'd ask me what to do, his neighbors in the
apartment complex were calling the cops on him for too much noise.
I never got a straight answer, what are you talking about, do you
play your stereo too loud or something?

Turns out the neighbors were calling because he was beating the
crap out of her. She even lost a baby in a beating. Why he wasn't
arrested, I do not know. I think things would be different these
days. Poor Rosie.

Even at work, he was harassing some of us. He was really disgusting.
Complaints went nowhere until he started requesting personnel reports
on other Indian men who worked for the company. Turns out he was
looking to harass them for dating his now ex. Finally they got rid
of him. I hope he fell into a hole and it closed up after him.

nancy

Kalmia > wrote in

s.com:

> But it doesn't seem like a true
>> loving relationship. I've never heard about an anniverssary,
>> going out, or even any sign of loving her husband or being
>> loved by him. It sounds more like a working relationship.

Of course, many people believe, personally as well as culturally,
that a relationship between a two life partners is private beyond
other meanings of the word. What you haven't heard means nothing.

--

If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t
help the poor, either we’ve got to pretend that Jesus
was just as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge
that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy
without condition, and then admit that we just don’t
want to do it.

Stephen Colbert (via videcormeum)

Sorry, that was not referenced properly. I have backtracked and
this is what you should read:

" >
wrote in news:a622ad3d-f260-4c54-891c-f3a298a98d75
@v13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:

> But it doesn't seem like a true
> loving relationship. I've never heard about an anniverssary,
> going out, or even any sign of loving her husband or being
> loved by him. It sounds more like a working relationship.

Of course, many people believe, personally as well as
culturally, that a relationship between a two life partners is
private beyond other meanings of the word. What you haven't
heard means nothing.

--

If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t
help the poor, either we’ve got to pretend that Jesus
was just as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge
that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy
without condition, and then admit that we just don’t
want to do it.

Stephen Colbert (via videcormeum)

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> ... I learned later how much he made her suffer with beatings.
>
> The other guys seemed happy with their wives, but that one made me
> think how awful that you could be given to someone you hate.

Problem is abusers get married in our system as well. Been there and
have the divorce from my ex who turned abusive after the wedding to show
for it.

At least with an arranged marriage on set of parents have your best
interest in mind and are able to make a more objective judgment. If
they are looking at the possibility of abuse they have a slightly
better chance of avoiding it. There's no way my parents would have
agreed to me marrying my ex if they thought they had a veto in the
process.