"rosie" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 26, 2:21?am, "Bob Terwilliger" >
wrote:
> sf replied to cyber****:
>
> >>>> Kaiser was a nightmare, at least for patients, while they were in NC.
> >>>> Until they got run out of here.
>
> >>> Fortunately, it has a good reputation here. ?I live in a city where a
> >>> lot of people want to be, so Kaiser skims the cream of the Dr. crop.
>
> >> Hmm, where to start with the shaky assumptions....
>
> > Shaky assumptions? ?I was trying to be nice. ?Well, they do get the
> > cream of the crop at least for my facility. ?How's that for a not
> > shaky assumption?
>
> It's plain to see that cyber**** has some personal grudge against Kaiser.
> They probably ran out of penicillin trying to combat cyber****'s STDs.
> It's
> not like cyber**** was *insured*, anyway. What insurance provider would
> issue a policy for a grossly-obese crack-addicted menopausal AIDS-risky
> subhuman?
>
> Bob

>don't hold back, Bob, let your real feelings out....

Isn't he precious. Lin is so Blessed.

"rosie" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 26, 12:12?am, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:29:05 -0700 (PDT), rosie >
> > wrote:
>
> >>Yes, many times, I lived in Italy and return any time I can..You will
> >>fall in love with it, if not all ready. Just enjoy it all.
>
> > I think I'm going to like the surrounding countryside better than I
> > like Rome.
>
> Tuscany. Trust me.

>oh yes, it is the very very best.

Indeed. Just breathing the soft, sweet air would make ****wiliger's anal
warts fall off and his Obese Leprechaun face stop causing young children to
cry on sight.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:21:26 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>It's plain to see that cyber**** has some personal grudge against Kaiser.
>They probably ran out of penicillin trying to combat cyber****'s STDs. It's
>not like cyber**** was *insured*, anyway. What insurance provider would
>issue a policy for a grossly-obese crack-addicted menopausal AIDS-risky
>subhuman?
>
oh, come on. You two don't like each other... kill file her and get
it over.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message >
> Tuscany is one of the places I want to visit someday, and preferably
> spend some time. I fell in love with the descriptions of it in
> Frances Mayes' books...
>
> A few rfc'ers have talked about maybe doing a semi-foodie vacation in
> Italy somewhe my vote is for Tuscany. The idea was to maybe rent a
> house for a few weeks/month..and make it our base. Plus do a great
> amount of cooking and eating while we are there..shopping from the
> local markets, etc.

You have the right idea. The exchange rate sucks right now, but there are
bargains to be had on renting a villa. Some are going for half price,
others are negotiating the listed prices. Airfare is not all that bad, less
than it was a year ago.

We've have breakfast at the villa, then head out for the day. We'd have or
main meal at a restaurant, then return to have a light dinner of whatever we
bought at the local markets. Usually some combination of: bread, cheese,
fruit, salami, and of course a bottle of wine.

We stayed here on the last trip
http://www.villeinitalia.com/houses/...tHouseNumber=8

I've not checked car rentals recently. In our case, it was about the same
price and faster to fly into Milan and drive to the villa than to lay over a
couple of hours and fly to Florence. The drive down was just part of the
tour and we drove to Venice and stayed for a couple of days before heading
home. .

If you rent the place for a month and have people stat to split costs for a
week or so at a time, it would be a blast. Our first trip was 10 days, our
second was 12 days, our next will be at least two weeks.

Dan Abel wrote:
They just do medicine. They are all on
> salary, so they don't worry about money at all. They get a paycheck
> every month, and it doesn't depend on how they practice medicine.
> Surgeons don't get paid according to how many surgeries they do.
>
That is a great situation for a mediocre practitioner and probably a
little discouraging for the brilliant one who deserves more. <shrug>

On 2009-09-26, Goomba > wrote:

> That is a great situation for a mediocre practitioner and probably a
> little discouraging for the brilliant one who deserves more. <shrug>

OTOH, I had my dermatologist (best one I ever had) give up working for
one of the most prestigious clinics in the SFBA to go work for Kaiser.

Go figure.

nb

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:02:25 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>The doctors I've known in the 30+ years we've belonged to Kaiser seem
>pretty happy practicing medicine. They aren't business people and they
>don't supervise employees. They just do medicine. They are all on
>salary, so they don't worry about money at all. They get a paycheck
>every month, and it doesn't depend on how they practice medicine.
>Surgeons don't get paid according to how many surgeries they do.

It's an excellent practice for people (especially women) who want to
have time to devote to family or just to have a normal "life". I
think their "on call" duty is built into the regular work week too.

I've had some fabulous doctors. In fact, I wouldn't trade the GP I
have now for all the tea in china! She's that good.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:02:25 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>>The doctors I've known in the 30+ years we've belonged to Kaiser seem
>>pretty happy practicing medicine. They aren't business people and they
>>don't supervise employees. They just do medicine. They are all on
>>salary, so they don't worry about money at all. They get a paycheck
>>every month, and it doesn't depend on how they practice medicine.
>>Surgeons don't get paid according to how many surgeries they do.
>
> It's an excellent practice for people (especially women) who want to
> have time to devote to family or just to have a normal "life". I
> think their "on call" duty is built into the regular work week too.
>

I'm sure all this is true, but I don't think it makes sense to make a
blanket statement about how wonderful Kaiser is.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:21:26 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>>It's plain to see that cyber**** has some personal grudge against Kaiser.
>>They probably ran out of penicillin trying to combat cyber****'s STDs.
>>It's
>>not like cyber**** was *insured*, anyway. What insurance provider would
>>issue a policy for a grossly-obese crack-addicted menopausal AIDS-risky
>>subhuman?
>>
> oh, come on. You two don't like each other... kill file her and get
> it over.
>

No no, Dood likes to make himself look like the refined, witty guy he is. I
am happy to oblige.

"Michel Boucher" > wrote
>
> Dan has been touting the benefits of Kaiser so much you'd think he was
> on the payroll ;-)

As it turns out, the NC problem was not my imagination. The quote below is
from Wiki:


"Regional evolution
By 1990, Kaiser Permanente provided coverage for about a third of the
population of the cities of San Francisco and Oakland; total Northern
California membership was over 2.4 million.[32]

Elsewhere, Kaiser Permanente did not do as well, and its geographic
footprint changed significantly in the 1990s. The organization spun off or
closed outposts in Texas, North Carolina, and the Northeast. In 1998, Kaiser
Permanente sold its Texas operations, where reported problems had become so
severe that the organization directed its lawyers to attempt to block the
release of a Texas Department of Insurance report. This prompted the state
attorney general to threaten to revoke the organization's license. In North
Carolina, the Industrial Union Department of the AFL-CIO issued a 1996
report critical of the quality of the care the organization
provided[citation needed]. Kaiser Permanente closed health plans in
Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham in North Carolina four years later. The
organization also sold its unprofitable Northeast division in 2000.

In 1995, Kaiser Permanente celebrated its fiftieth anniversary as a public
health plan. Two years later, national membership reached nine million. In
1997, the organization established an agreement with the AFL-CIO to explore
a new approach to the relationship between management and labor, known as
the Labor Management Partnership."

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:53:33 -0600, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:35:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
>wrote:
>
>
>>You have the right idea. The exchange rate sucks right now, but there are
>>bargains to be had on renting a villa. Some are going for half price,
>>others are negotiating the listed prices. Airfare is not all that bad, less
>>than it was a year ago.
>>
>>We've have breakfast at the villa, then head out for the day. We'd have or
>>main meal at a restaurant, then return to have a light dinner of whatever we
>>bought at the local markets. Usually some combination of: bread, cheese,
>>fruit, salami, and of course a bottle of wine.
>>
>>We stayed here on the last trip
>>http://www.villeinitalia.com/houses/...tHouseNumber=8
>>
>>I've not checked car rentals recently. In our case, it was about the same
>>price and faster to fly into Milan and drive to the villa than to lay over a
>>couple of hours and fly to Florence. The drive down was just part of the
>>tour and we drove to Venice and stayed for a couple of days before heading
>>home. .
>>
>>If you rent the place for a month and have people stat to split costs for a
>>week or so at a time, it would be a blast. Our first trip was 10 days, our
>>second was 12 days, our next will be at least two weeks.
>>
>>
>Oh thanks for that site!!
>
>Now, to start saving my money...and seeing who would be interested in
>a year or so....
>
>Christine

I agree- Tuscany. I have been very lucky to stay in Firenze/Florence
twice. But it is never long enough. The first time we stayed in a 2
Star(Probably) hotel and loved Firenze. The 2nd time, 3 years ago, we
spent a week in an apartment and that was wonderful too. Just looked
up places for rent on the Internet. (Virtual Tourist is a great site
too.) Wish I could go on your trip. It would be such fun but I have
too much family. Tuscany is gorgeous with soft air and unbelievable
light! Just mind blowing. Firenze has wonderful museums and food and
is too good to believe. Glad I have photos.

aloha,
Cea

In article >,
Michel Boucher > wrote:


> Dan has been touting the benefits of Kaiser so much you'd think he was
> on the payroll ;-)

We've been pretty happy with Kaiser. We have been enrolled continually
since 1972.

> What he doesn't say is how often these doctors are told to refuse
> treatment to patients even when the law obliges them to do so (clearly
> they think they are above the law),
>
> http://www.kaiserthrive.org/2008/07/...ers-refusal-to
> -pay-for-autism-treatment/
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5rgnet
>
> and here is another one:
>
> http://www.accessmylibrary.com/artic...-sued-test-law.
> html
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9xyzmd
>
> or again
>
> http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jul/03/news/mn-473
>
> Note the significance: Kaiser, the nation's largest nonprofit HMO,
> announced last month that--with rare exceptions--it would not include
> Viagra in covered benefits because the number of men rushing to obtain
> prescriptions for the drug threatened to drive up Kaiser's costs by $100
> million a year.
>
> Yeah, and?
>
> These people are unprincipled blackhearts.

Some of these are mistakes. Some are things that Kaiser doesn't want to
pay for. Since it is a non-profit, if they pay, then they raise their
rates to cover their costs.

For Viagra, any large group that wants the coverage, can get it. The
costs will be raised to cover it. How many of you women want to pay a
lot of money so that your plan covers Viagra?

Some people wonder what Kaiser covers. Well, Kaiser has more plans than
Carter has pills. I have had numerous plans, depending on who my
employer or my wife's employer was at the time. Sometimes glasses were
covered, sometimes they weren't. The co-pay for prescription drugs
varies.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On 2009-09-27, Michel Boucher > wrote:

> These people are unprincipled blackhearts.

You know spit about Kaiser.

I had Kaiser for many years. I personally knew professionals who
worked at Kaiser. Some were neighbors. I've sometimes had problems
getting the treatment I wanted from Kaiser. I have personal horror
stories about Kaiser. I've seen blatant buffoonery at Kaiser. I've
also had intelligent professional care by people who gave a damn about
my wife's, my daughter's, and mine own health. Knowing all that and
considering my experiences with SEVERAL other health plans I've had
over the years, I wish I was still with Kaiser.

nb

On 2009-09-26, cybercat > wrote:

> ................but his face was red and his hands were
> shaking he was so angry.

I have little doubt that's a response you are all too familiar with.

nb

Dan Abel wrote:


> For Viagra, any large group that wants the coverage, can get it. The
> costs will be raised to cover it. How many of you women want to pay a
> lot of money so that your plan covers Viagra?

Dunno. Maybe. Ask me again a decade or so on down the line. It's a
quality of life thing, and NOT just for the gentlemen swallowing the pills.

"Giddy-up Cowboy!"

sf wrote:

> It's an excellent practice for people (especially women) who want to
> have time to devote to family or just to have a normal "life". I
> think their "on call" duty is built into the regular work week too.
>
> I've had some fabulous doctors. In fact, I wouldn't trade the GP I
> have now for all the tea in china! She's that good.

The first time I ever heard about Kaiser Permanente was in the mid-90s and I
was living in San Diego. A sixty-year-old man living in the northern part of
San Diego County was disgruntled by the fact that his treatment for cancer
had rendered him impotent, so he shot his Kaiser Permanente physician in the
groin.

Bob

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2009-09-27, Michel Boucher > wrote:
>
> > These people are unprincipled blackhearts.
>
> You know spit about Kaiser.

I was having a little problem with Kaiser. I had emergency surgery out
of state. They were very slow about paying, and were incredibly
nitpicky about some "codes". I talked to my doctor. He laughed. He
said to just be patient. If I needed his help, he thought I had done
the right thing and it was emergency surgery. But, he said the bean
counters were all the same. It didn't matter whether it was Kaiser or a
private insurance company, their job was to keep from paying out money.

So, there are problems with Kaiser, but the doctors and medical
personnel are generally great.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"pure kona" > wrote in message
> Tuscany is gorgeous with soft air and unbelievable
> light! Just mind blowing. Firenze has wonderful museums and food and
> is too good to believe. Glad I have photos.
>

Never had a bad meal in Italy. It is best though, to walk a bock away from
the main drag to the little places. Sure, you have to soak up the
atmosphere dining on the piazza, but the same quality can often be had at
20% of that price in places the locals go.

Oh, paying cash can also get you good discounts in many shops if you see the
owner. Tax evasion seems to be a national sport.

sf wrote:

>> It's plain to see that cyber**** has some personal grudge against Kaiser.
>> They probably ran out of penicillin trying to combat cyber****'s STDs.
>> It's not like cyber**** was *insured*, anyway. What insurance provider
>> would issue a policy for a grossly-obese crack-addicted menopausal
>> AIDS-risky subhuman?
>>
> oh, come on. You two don't like each other... kill file her and get
> it over.

We have each other killfiled already. Doesn't stop it from attacking me,
which I see in other's replies to it, so I feel free to retaliate.

Bob

In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> ...

> > Well, the first one would be that conditions were the same in NC as they
> > are in NC (Northern California). I suspect not. Perhaps the medical
> > establishment in NC (North Carolina) was not accepting of Kaiser. Maybe
> > they got the worst patients and poor medical staff. But that's an
> > assumption.

> > The doctors I've known in the 30+ years we've belonged to Kaiser seem
> > pretty happy practicing medicine. They aren't business people and they
> > don't supervise employees. They just do medicine. They are all on
> > salary, so they don't worry about money at all.

> It was not that way when they were in Raleigh, which by the way, is no small
> shakes when it comes to high-income, high-real estate, etc.

> This was in 1994-1997.

I've belonged to Kaiser continuously since 1972. With few exceptions,
the doctors are on straight salary.

> All I wanted was a referral so that I could get an
> allergy test to see if I might avoid some allergens rather than begin
> pumping steroids up my nose, and getting shots and such. I had to fight the
> doctor's evasive tactics, finally saying, after he gave me a list of
> "options" "At what point did we try to identify the source of the
> allergens?" He wrote the referral, but his face was red and his hands were
> shaking he was so angry. He clearly lost money when he referred patients to
> specialists.

How could he "lose money" if he was on salary? If Kaiser there had an
allergist on salary, it should have been no big deal. If they didn't,
then I'm sure doctors get dinged for too many referrals to doctors on
contract, because Kaiser has to pay those doctors. It depends on the
contract, obviously, but still, those referrals represent money out the
door for each referral.

I hope you switched doctors at that point. Kaiser only assigns doctors
if you are new and don't request a specific doctor. They really want
you to pick a primary (and secondary) doctor(s). I have two eye
doctors, an OD for routine eye exams and an OMD for my eye diseases.
I've had the same primary care doctor for many years.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Christine wrote:

> Tuscany is one of the places I want to visit someday, and preferably
> spend some time. I fell in love with the descriptions of it in
> Frances Mayes' books...
>
> A few rfc'ers have talked about maybe doing a semi-foodie vacation in
> Italy somewhe my vote is for Tuscany. The idea was to maybe rent a
> house for a few weeks/month..and make it our base. Plus do a great
> amount of cooking and eating while we are there..shopping from the
> local markets, etc.

The Tuscans appear to be very proud of the traditional unsalted Tuscan
bread, which I don't understand at all. I'm not a salt fiend by any stretch
of the imagination, but Tuscan bread tastes "flat" to me. I suppose if you
only ate it to accompany food which was oversalted, the two might balance
out.

Other than that, I think the food in Tuscany is fantastic. But how could you
*not* want to go to Parma for the food? Or the Amalfi coast, about which
Mario Batali waxes poetic? Or Apulia, from which some of the best and
freshest Italian food is emerging? And let's not forget Venice, which has
centuries of being a major port in the spice trade routes, with a regional
cuisine which reflects that.

Bob

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:59:52 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>We have each other killfiled already.

Ah, ok. Sorry you two have to be in the same room together.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Christine wrote:

>> I think the food in Tuscany is fantastic. But how could you *not* want to
>> go to Parma for the food? Or the Amalfi coast, about which Mario Batali
>> waxes poetic? Or Apulia, from which some of the best and freshest Italian
>> food is emerging? And let's not forget Venice, which has centuries of
>> being a major port in the spice trade routes, with a regional cuisine
>> which reflects that.
>>
>
> I said it would be a base "camp", so to speak. No reason why we
> couldn't go to all of those places.....

If you're going to have a base camp, why not select one more centrally
located, like Umbria? If you consider only the main land mass of Italy
(i.e., disregarding Sicily and Malta), it looks like the most central
location would lie north of Rieti (in Latium) and east of Terni (in Umbria).
If you *do* count Sicily, then the most central location would be east of
Rome, somewhere around Castel Madama.


> Weren't you there in chat the night we were discussing this?

I haven't been in chat for months.

Bob

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:58:04 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>Never had a bad meal in Italy. It is best though, to walk a bock away from
>the main drag to the little places. Sure, you have to soak up the
>atmosphere dining on the piazza, but the same quality can often be had at
>20% of that price in places the locals go.

We always have the good luck of just blundering into good things. So
far, you're right about the food.
>
>Oh, paying cash can also get you good discounts in many shops if you see the
>owner. Tax evasion seems to be a national sport.

Yes! We noticed that too. Some little restaurants don't take credit
cards and write the bill on a plain piece of paper. However I want to
save my discount fairies for something substantial. I saw a
chandelier I want at a nearby shop and will sic hubby on the shop
keeper to bargain for a better price.






--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Christine wrote:

> I think you were in chat the night we talked about this.. And
> it was only a month or two ago...

In that case, it was somebody else. Last time you and I were in chat
together, you were talking about getting together a NoCal foodies society of
sorts. Looking back, I see that was November of last year; you mentioned it
on this list, and I responded.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...3a76b9f35c93c4

I haven't been in chat since that discussion. From what I gather, chatting
now would require me to make some kind of configuration changes or software
changes on the computer I use, and I haven't made those changes.

Bob

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > It's an excellent practice for people (especially women) who want to
> > have time to devote to family or just to have a normal "life". I
> > think their "on call" duty is built into the regular work week too.
> >
> > I've had some fabulous doctors. In fact, I wouldn't trade the GP I
> > have now for all the tea in china! She's that good.
>
> The first time I ever heard about Kaiser Permanente was in the mid-90s and I
> was living in San Diego. A sixty-year-old man living in the northern part of
> San Diego County was disgruntled by the fact that his treatment for cancer
> had rendered him impotent, so he shot his Kaiser Permanente physician in the
> groin.

That's funny, but I'm not laughing. Michel posted something negative
about Kaiser, and the last part was their refusal to cover Viagra. The
claim was that some men were refusing treatment for cancer because of
fears of impotence. It didn't say, but I'm assuming prostate cancer,
since that is common in men. That says something about priorities,
since I believe most untreated prostate cancer leads, in not too long,
to death. So these guys would rather die than become impotent. And
it's not like Kaiser won't give you Viagra, they just won't cover it.
So, according to what Michel posted, you pay US$8 or more each time you
want sex. Sounds a lot cheaper than a prostitute. And, once you die, I
would guess that your corpse would be impotent. With cancer spread
throughout your body, I wouldn't be surprised if those people were
impotent also.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Christine wrote:

> No, I think you were in chat since then. It was one night, when Lin
> and I, Steve Pope and maybe a few other folks were talking. I think
> sf was there. Maybe you weren't there, but I think you came in. I
> think Lin messaged you or something.... It was this year, I am pretty
> sure of it. We started talking about getting a house in Italy for a
> foodie vacation...
>
> It wasn't that long ago....really.
>
> I could swear you came in...
>
> We were having a blast talking about this possibility....


Wasn't me, honest. As I wrote, I haven't been in chat for months. Hmmm... I
wonder who Lin *is* planning to shack up with in Tuscany! :-)

Bob

Dan wrote:

> Michel posted something negative about Kaiser, and the last part was their
> refusal to cover Viagra. The claim was that some men were refusing
> treatment for cancer because of fears of impotence. It didn't say, but
> I'm assuming prostate cancer, since that is common in men. That says
> something about priorities, since I believe most untreated prostate cancer
> leads, in not too long, to death.

I don't think that's correct. In fact, I'm fairly certain that prostate
cancer is pretty slow; I remember reading an article about prostate cancer
patients who were advised not to get treatment because of that.

Lemme see....

OK, here's one such article:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pro...cancer/PC99999

"prostate cancer is usually slow growing, so in most cases there's no need
to rush [into treatment]"

Here's another:


http://familydoctor.org/online/famdo...tment/264.html

"Many prostate cancers are small and grow slowly. Because many men with a
slow-growing tumor have the same life expectancy as men who don't even have
prostate cancer, it may not be necessary to treat very small, very
slow-growing prostate tumors. Also, some men feel that the side effects of
treatment outweigh the benefits. In watchful waiting, you get no treatment,
but you see your doctor often. If there's no sign the cancer is growing, you
continue to get no treatment. Hormone therapy can be started if the cancer
starts to grow."


Bob

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:07:07 -0500, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Note the significance: Kaiser, the nation's largest nonprofit HMO,
>announced last month that--with rare exceptions--it would not include
>Viagra in covered benefits because the number of men rushing to obtain
>prescriptions for the drug threatened to drive up Kaiser's costs by $100
>million a year.
>
>Yeah, and?
>
>These people are unprincipled blackhearts.

Horror of horrors. My heart just bleeds for those poor men who can't
get it up who have and to shell out cold hard cash to pretend a few
more years that they aren't old.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:26:37 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>That sure is my understanding, and my experience supports that. This doctor
>was clearly and visible angry at me because I wanted an allergy test. That
>is a doctor? His argument was that most people are allergic to things they
>cannot avoid. So I should just go ahead and use the steroid spray, maybe get
>allergy shots. As it turns out, I am allergic to things I can avoid. I
>manage my allergies by doing this, except for the cat allergy. Claritin
>works fine on that. Another thing is the very cheap OTC drug store there,
>it's like an incentive to "do it yourself." Unbelievable.

The flip side of that coin is all the allergy doctors selling
unnecessary testing and shots to make themselves a few bucks when all
you needed to do was avoid the allergen or use an inexpensive OTC.

I certainly don't want to be the cash cow who pays some doctor's
country club dues.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
>
> If you're going to have a base camp, why not select one more centrally
> located, like Umbria? If you consider only the main land mass of Italy
> (i.e., disregarding Sicily and Malta), it looks like the most central
> location would lie north of Rieti (in Latium) and east of Terni (in
> Umbria). If you *do* count Sicily, then the most central location would be
> east of Rome, somewhere around Castel Madama.

You may be correct geographically, but no so much "things to see wise", IMO.
Firenze was pretty much the center of the Renaissance and you can spend lots
of time close by. Easy day trips to Pisa, Lucca. Bologna. There is a road
running from Bologna to Firenze that is used for testing Ducati bikes. It
has more turns per mile than any other road.

There is no right or wrong places to stay, just preferences.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:33:05 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>I'm sure all this is true, but I don't think it makes sense to make a
>blanket statement about how wonderful Kaiser is.
>
I don't remember telling anyone to rush out and change their health
coverage just because I like Kaiser. Do what you want. Kaiser isn't
an option for you anyway.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:33:05 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>I'm sure all this is true, but I don't think it makes sense to make a
>>blanket statement about how wonderful Kaiser is.
>>
> I don't remember telling anyone to rush out and change their health
> coverage just because I like Kaiser. Do what you want. Kaiser isn't
> an option for you anyway.

I didn't say you were telling me what to do. I said you were making a
blanket statement about the benefits of Kaiser for both patients and nurses
looking for jobs that is just not accurate. Too broad a generalization. I'd
reather hear about Italy. Rome if that is all you got.

cyber**** wrote:

> I didn't say you were telling me what to do. I said you were making a
> blanket statement about the benefits of Kaiser for both patients and
> nurses looking for jobs that is just not accurate. Too broad a
> generalization. I'd reather hear about Italy. Rome if that is all you got.
>

Stop morphing, whore.

Bob

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:26:37 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>That sure is my understanding, and my experience supports that. This
>>doctor
>>was clearly and visible angry at me because I wanted an allergy test. That
>>is a doctor? His argument was that most people are allergic to things they
>>cannot avoid. So I should just go ahead and use the steroid spray, maybe
>>get
>>allergy shots. As it turns out, I am allergic to things I can avoid. I
>>manage my allergies by doing this, except for the cat allergy. Claritin
>>works fine on that. Another thing is the very cheap OTC drug store there,
>>it's like an incentive to "do it yourself." Unbelievable.
>
> The flip side of that coin is all the allergy doctors selling
> unnecessary testing and shots to make themselves a few bucks when all
> you needed to do was avoid the allergen or use an inexpensive OTC.
>
> I certainly don't want to be the cash cow who pays some doctor's
> country club dues.

You could not have missed the point more completely. He wanted me to just
take a whole lot of systemic steroids to treat a reaction without knowing
what caused it. HE WAS SELLING THE SHOTS AND DRUGS. The drugs were
dangerous. I am allergic to dust, mold, and cats. No plants at all. So I
could ditch all the carpeting, buy hepa filters and a hepa vaccuum, and
begin a bathroom and kitchen cleaning regimen that prevents 90% of the mold.

It's not the end of the world. You are just wrong.

"Kathleen" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
>
>> For Viagra, any large group that wants the coverage, can get it. The
>> costs will be raised to cover it. How many of you women want to pay a
>> lot of money so that your plan covers Viagra?
>
> Dunno. Maybe. Ask me again a decade or so on down the line. It's a
> quality of life thing, and NOT just for the gentlemen swallowing the
> pills.
>
> "Giddy-up Cowboy!"

lol

Dan Abel > wrote:

>The doctors I've known in the 30+ years we've belonged to Kaiser seem
>pretty happy practicing medicine. They aren't business people and they
>don't supervise employees. They just do medicine. They are all on
>salary, so they don't worry about money at all. They get a paycheck
>every month, and it doesn't depend on how they practice medicine.
>Surgeons don't get paid according to how many surgeries they do.

Almost true, but the physician groups within Kaiser are
for-profit and there is therefore a small profit incentive
for the MD's. I do not think this affects things too much.
And the rest of the system is non-profit.

Steve

Dan wrote:

> Michel posted something negative about Kaiser, and the last part was their
> refusal to cover Viagra.

Rubbish. Kaiser covers ED meds. They may not cover Viagra
specifically, but they have others in their formulary.

A quick check shows they cover Levitra, but not Viagra. Bit deal.


Steve

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
>>
>> If you're going to have a base camp, why not select one more centrally
>> located, like Umbria? If you consider only the main land mass of Italy
>> (i.e., disregarding Sicily and Malta), it looks like the most central
>> location would lie north of Rieti (in Latium) and east of Terni (in
>> Umbria). If you *do* count Sicily, then the most central location would
>> be east of Rome, somewhere around Castel Madama.
>
> You may be correct geographically, but no so much "things to see wise",
> IMO. Firenze was pretty much the center of the Renaissance and you can
> spend lots of time close by. Easy day trips to Pisa, Lucca. Bologna.
> There is a road running from Bologna to Firenze that is used for testing
> Ducati bikes. It has more turns per mile than any other road.
>
> There is no right or wrong places to stay, just preferences.
>

You have actually been to Italy. Cool. I miss it. Might be time to go again.
Soon.

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:16:09 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I haven't been in chat since that discussion. From what I gather, chatting
>>now would require me to make some kind of configuration changes or
>>software
>>changes on the computer I use, and I haven't made those changes.
>>
>>Bob
>
> No, I think you were in chat since then. It was one night, when Lin
> and I, Steve Pope and maybe a few other folks were talking. I think
> sf was there. Maybe you weren't there, but I think you came in. I
> think Lin messaged you or something.... It was this year, I am pretty
> sure of it. We started talking about getting a house in Italy for a
> foodie vacation...
>
> It wasn't that long ago....really.
>
> I could swear you came in...
>
> We were having a blast talking about this possibility....
>

Look at his photo on the mugshots page. Bob's got to be blacking out at this
stage.