:-(

13 Dead in New York Shooting


BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.

Dimitri

In article >,
"Dimitri" > wrote:

> :-(
>
> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>
>
> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>
> Dimitri

This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
may have minimized the number of victims.

New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
stop criminals that don't obey laws.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> :-(
>>
>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>
>>
>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>> in
>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.
>
> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.

That wouldn't work for everybody.

If I carried a gun I'd be heading to jail after my first ride home from
work. :-)

Jon

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:52:34 -0400, "Zeppo" >
wrote:

>If I carried a gun I'd be heading to jail after my first ride home from
>work. :-)

But it probably would have been worth it, Jon.

On Apr 3, 3:36*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> *"Dimitri" > wrote:
> > :-(
>
> > 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>
> > BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) *-- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
> > downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>
> > Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.
>
> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> stop criminals that don't obey laws.

In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
end up hitting some other innocents.

We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
ground.

Maxine

maxine wrote:
> On Apr 3, 3:36 pm, Omelet > wrote:
>> In article >,
>>
>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>> :-(
>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>> Dimitri
>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>> may have minimized the number of victims.
>>
>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>
> In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
> quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
> the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
> end up hitting some other innocents.
>
> We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
> concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
> ground.


I am reminded of an incident in the news a few years back about a guy
who went into a bar to pull off an armed robbery. He picked the wrong
bar. This one was full of off duty cops. A bunch of the cops pulled out
their guns and started shooting. The robber was shot and killed before
he got a shot off. ... and 5 or 6 of the cops were hit by friendly <?>
fire.

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> :-(
>>
>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>
>>
>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.
>
> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> stop criminals that don't obey laws.



Sorry Om, but I cannot agree with that. I am not an anti gun nut. I own
a number of rifles, shotguns and handguns, but I live in Canada, where
you have to jump through a lot of hoops to buy a gun, and handguns are
subject to a lot of restrictions. Firearms have to be safely stored.
Handguns have to be locked up and trigger locked, and ammunition has to
be locked up in a separate location or case. Apparently there are a few
permits for citizens to carry a handgun for self defence... about a half
dozen in the whole country. Even off duty cops can't carry them.

If having a lot of armed citizens prepared to hand out street justice,
crime rates in the US, especially homicide, should be lower that here.
They aren't. They are way higher.

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> :-(
>>
>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>
>>
>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.
>
> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
Disagree have a look at Canada and other countries where there is not
the fallacy and bizarre love affair with weapons.

The right to bear arms is a crock and I very much doubt the founding
fathers
meant it to be interpreted as it NOW is by the gun nut lobby of these
times.

Possibly another reason why others when around US forces make novenas to
avoid friendly fire
See below where in part this love affair can [perhaps]lead
then the spin begins and the cover ups are a disgrace

Example " A Pentagon spokeswoman said the US government never released
documents that were part of an investigation.

The Pentagon is understood to have a long standing position of not
letting US servicemen appear before foreign tribunals."
*including their allies*

I bet not many on here are even aware of this cover up which in the
sadest manner indicates the trigger happy propensity along with so many
other breaches communication

It reduces many to almost tears of rage when this is seen
(especially trained flying crew ) who go WTF ! all the way through it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGSyACeY8A
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcGoX

Not only was the investigation knobbled by the septic tanks but they
promoted the main man
A UK investigation found that "procedures were not followed" by the
two pilots.

The UK board singled out "POPOV36" for criticism, stating,

"POPOV36 showed a single-minded pursuit of the UK vehicles.

There is no indication he was sensitive to POPOV35’s (the other A-10
involved) workload

or the difficulties posed by addressing two possible targets at the same
time."[11]

The Sun further stated that because his name was now public, Kohntopp
could now be individually

requested to appear before the British inquest, set to resume on March
12, 2007,

into Matty Hull's death.[12] As of February 9, 2007 Kohntopp was
reported to be "in hiding."[13]

On March 16, 2007, the Oxfordshire assistant deputy coroner Andrew
Walker ruled

that the killing of Matty Hull was, "unlawful and the result of a
criminal attack"

ie the official verdict was one of unlawful killing.

Neither Kohntopp nor any other representative from the U.S. government
appeared

before or provided testimony to the inquest in spite of requests from
the British coroner to do so.[14][15]


Kohntopp is a pro gun lobbyist among other things
and now flies for a Major US Airline

In article >,
Omelet > wrote:

> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
> > :-(
> >
> > 13 Dead in New York Shooting
> >
> >
> > BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
> > downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
> >
> > Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.

Or it may have increased it, as innocents got caught in the crossfire.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article >,
"Zeppo" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "Dimitri" > wrote:
> >
> >> :-(
> >>
> >> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
> >>
> >>
> >> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
> >> in
> >> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
> >>
> >> Dimitri
> >
> > This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> > may have minimized the number of victims.
> >
> > New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> > stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>
> That wouldn't work for everybody.
>
> If I carried a gun I'd be heading to jail after my first ride home from
> work. :-)
>
> Jon

I think that was my point. You, a law abiding citizen, should be allowed
to carry one for self-defense.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article
>,
maxine > wrote:

> On Apr 3, 3:36*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> > *"Dimitri" > wrote:
> > > :-(
> >
> > > 13 Dead in New York Shooting
> >
> > > BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) *-- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
> > > downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
> >
> > > Dimitri
> >
> > This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> > may have minimized the number of victims.
> >
> > New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> > stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>
> In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
> quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
> the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
> end up hitting some other innocents.

That's always the worry of those that don't agree with this concept.

>
> We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
> concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
> ground.
>
> Maxine

It's all good. :-) I'm not a militant pro-RKBA'er.
We can agree to disagree!

What would you suggest as the solution to this problem?
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> maxine wrote:
> > On Apr 3, 3:36 pm, Omelet > wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >>
> >> "Dimitri" > wrote:
> >>> :-(
> >>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
> >>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
> >>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
> >>> Dimitri
> >> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> >> may have minimized the number of victims.
> >>
> >> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> >> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
> >
> > In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
> > quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
> > the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
> > end up hitting some other innocents.
> >
> > We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
> > concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
> > ground.
>
>
> I am reminded of an incident in the news a few years back about a guy
> who went into a bar to pull off an armed robbery. He picked the wrong
> bar. This one was full of off duty cops. A bunch of the cops pulled out
> their guns and started shooting. The robber was shot and killed before
> he got a shot off. ... and 5 or 6 of the cops were hit by friendly <?>
> fire.

Cops are notoriously bad shots. <g>
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article >,
"phil..c" > wrote:

> Disagree have a look at Canada and other countries where there is not
> the fallacy and bizarre love affair with weapons.

So, what would be your solution to stopping massacres by crazies?

States where there are strict gun laws don't seem to stop it...
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Omelet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>>> in downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>
>>> Dimitri
>>
>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back may
>> have minimized the number of victims.
>>
>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't stop
>> criminals that don't obey laws.
>
>
>
> Sorry Om, but I cannot agree with that. I am not an anti gun nut. I own a
> number of rifles, shotguns and handguns, but I live in Canada, where you
> have to jump through a lot of hoops to buy a gun, and handguns are subject
> to a lot of restrictions. Firearms have to be safely stored. Handguns
> have to be locked up and trigger locked, and ammunition has to be locked
> up in a separate location or case. Apparently there are a few permits for
> citizens to carry a handgun for self defence... about a half dozen in the
> whole country. Even off duty cops can't carry them.
>
> If having a lot of armed citizens prepared to hand out street justice,
> crime rates in the US, especially homicide, should be lower that here.
> They aren't. They are way higher.

The last lot of reliable stats I came accross, the US per capita rate of
gun homicides was 15 times higher than Canada.

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> :-(
>>
>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>
>>
>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>> in
>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.

Assuming that they were all good shots!

>
> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
> --

Was this murderer a criminal BEFORE this incident?

boulanger wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> :-(
>>>>
>>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>>>> in downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri
>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back may
>>> have minimized the number of victims.

Not everybody needs to be armed. Everybody needs the opportunity to be
armed. (there's a difference) Only enough ppl need to be armed to keep
the criminals guessing.

>>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't stop
>>> criminals that don't obey laws.
>>

Upstate New York isn't so bad. That's mostly just NYC, and maybe some
of the NYC wannabes.

>>
>> Sorry Om, but I cannot agree with that. I am not an anti gun nut. I own a
>> number of rifles, shotguns and handguns, but I live in Canada, where you
>> have to jump through a lot of hoops to buy a gun, and handguns are subject
>> to a lot of restrictions. [snip]
>> If having a lot of armed citizens prepared to hand out street justice,
>> crime rates in the US, especially homicide, should be lower that here.
>> They aren't. They are way higher.
>
> The last lot of reliable stats I came accross, the US per capita rate of
> gun homicides was 15 times higher than Canada.


That *might* be true, but what other violent crimes? Robberies?
Assaults? Knife homicides? (How about compare the per capita rate of
buggy-whip crimes of the Amish vs. that of citizens of Oakland,
California. What kind of conclusions could you draw from that?)

Bob

It seems like all of the latest mass murderers were law abiding
citizens when they bought their guns. I wonder how this one will be
portrayed.

```````````````````````````````

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:44:16 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>:-(
>
>13 Dead in New York Shooting
>
>
>BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>
>Dimitri



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:36:02 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>may have minimized the number of victims.
>
>New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>stop criminals that don't obey laws.

That's total BS.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:11 -0500, zxcvbob >
wrote:

>(How about compare the per capita rate of
>buggy-whip crimes of the Amish vs. that of citizens of Oakland,
>California. What kind of conclusions could you draw from that?)

I'd say you're comparing apples and oranges.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:00:30 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> "phil..c" > wrote:
>
>> Disagree have a look at Canada and other countries where there is not
>> the fallacy and bizarre love affair with weapons.
>
>So, what would be your solution to stopping massacres by crazies?

Don't sell them guns.
>
>States where there are strict gun laws don't seem to stop it...

And how is selling more guns going to stop a crazy person? It's just
arming more crazy people.



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "phil..c" > wrote:
>
>> Disagree have a look at Canada and other countries where there is not
>> the fallacy and bizarre love affair with weapons.
>
> So, what would be your solution to stopping massacres by crazies?
>
> States where there are strict gun laws don't seem to stop it...

WHY DID YOU TRIM MY POST yet you do not do that to others ?


There will always be crazies ( you talk to one all the time )

However, it is a question that has exercised many better minds than
perhaps ours over decades .



In simple terms it will be horrendously difficult to obtain common
sense re this issue within the USA because of the manner in which the
constitution is used or misused .
Other jurisdictions do not have a bill of rights

Thus first it is an issue for the majority of citizens and jurists
to begin a process of where is the common good and the duty of care
,public interest etc .

Compounding this is the fact of the zillions of weapons that are out in
the community bot licensed and unlicensed

Along with this is the problem of how you break both the philosophical
cycle of learned behaviour of the myth expounded re the right to bear
arms .

Then you have Federal rights over riding state rights .

And this is just the beginning in road mapping on how one deals with
this problem .

However, it is a problem you bought on yourselves then held yourselves
up as a freedom loving democracy to the rest of the world .

Your freedoms were wiped out by GW Bush so live with it .


now add to this matrix the vested interests of the free market
I doubt that Colt S & w and Winchester would just sit idle and allow a
segment of the market to be wiped out even if common sense prevailed .


On another machine I have many papers and studies relating to this VERY
complex issue .There is no one problem and thus no one answer .


It is beyond the scope of a cooking group but even cooks get blown
away . on average 16 a quarter in 2001 stats (latest I have to hand on
this machine)


Then you have the lawlessness of across the border in Mexico
that is seeping into factions within the States The crims are armed
better than some small countries

To cut to the chase history teaches us (does not mean we learn)

Every civilisation eventually falls into ruin or chaos


Looks like it is your turn sadly you took the rest of the western world
and Japan with you both morally ethically financially and spiritually .

It Started in 1959 and now time to pay the piper ---------

However sooner or later the majority will wake up from the self
delusion under the banner of the right to bear arms
and say enough is enough ban ALL hand guns and military type weapons
introduce strict monitoring programs (that you now can not afford)

Or continue culling your own citizens .



Other countries have got it right in particular Scandinavia and Even
Australia & NZ


Lets see how saint Obama deals with this (poor *******) having
inherited a poisoned chalice from accumulated toxins sent down by at
LEAST 5 previous administrations



Good luck but I wont hold my breath for seeing it fixed in my life time

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:11 -0500, zxcvbob >
> wrote:
>
>> (How about compare the per capita rate of
>> buggy-whip crimes of the Amish vs. that of citizens of Oakland,
>> California. What kind of conclusions could you draw from that?)
>
> I'd say you're comparing apples and oranges.
>
>


That was my point.

I don't know about Canada, but in England and Australia they got rid of
handguns and surprisingly enough crimes committed with guns went down
(but not to zero) and other crimes went way up to fill the vacuum.
Overall, crime went up as criminals didn't have to worry about their
victims possibly being able to fight back.

Bob

With 13 million unemployed and the prospects of employment getting worse and
worse I FEAR we are going to see more and more of people who snap and hurt
others.

I sincerely hope I am worng.

Dimitri

Child who was with father during Ellensburg robbery returns home

Seattle Times staff and news services

A 9-year-old girl who was at her father's side during a convenience-store
holdup near Ellensburg has returned to Washington state from California.

Police on Friday were still looking for 42-year-old Robert Daniel Webb, of
Everett, who was last seen eluding officers Wednesday night in Fortuna,
Calif. He left his 9-year-old daughter at the home of an acquaintance there,
and the girl's mother went to California to pick her up.

As she arrived Friday at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, the girl told
KING-TV News that the situation has been hard and has made her sad.

On Tuesday, the robber told the clerk at an AM-PM minimart that he had lost
his job and needed money for his daughter. Store video showed the girl in a
pink coat watching as the man beside her pulls a gun and takes about $200.

Copyright © 2009 The Seattle Times Company

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:36:02 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> :-(
>>
>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>
>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
> may have minimized the number of victims.
>
> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
> stop criminals that don't obey laws.

jesus.

every time something like this happens, some people say it means more
people should have guns. it makes zero sense.

blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:56:18 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "Zeppo" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> In article >,
>>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> :-(
>>>>
>>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>>>> in
>>>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri
>>>
>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>>> may have minimized the number of victims.
>>>
>>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>>> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>>
>> That wouldn't work for everybody.
>>
>> If I carried a gun I'd be heading to jail after my first ride home from
>> work. :-)
>>
>> Jon
>
> I think that was my point. You, a law abiding citizen, should be allowed
> to carry one for self-defense.

should you be allowed to have a semi-automatic? how long does it take to
shoot 13 people? will one of your ace citizen-markmen have time to squeeze
off a perfectly placed shot to defend himself?

or is your thesis that if everyone is armed, no one would be crazy enough
to start shooting people for no reason?

blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:58:42 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> maxine wrote:
>>> On Apr 3, 3:36 pm, Omelet > wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>>
>>>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>>>> :-(
>>>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>>>>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>>> Dimitri
>>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>>>> may have minimized the number of victims.
>>>>
>>>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>>>> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>>>
>>> In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
>>> quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
>>> the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
>>> end up hitting some other innocents.
>>>
>>> We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
>>> concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
>>> ground.
>>
>> I am reminded of an incident in the news a few years back about a guy
>> who went into a bar to pull off an armed robbery. He picked the wrong
>> bar. This one was full of off duty cops. A bunch of the cops pulled out
>> their guns and started shooting. The robber was shot and killed before
>> he got a shot off. ... and 5 or 6 of the cops were hit by friendly <?>
>> fire.
>
> Cops are notoriously bad shots. <g>

obviously, the well-armed citizenry will be much better.

blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:58:02 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article
> >,
> maxine > wrote:
>
>> On Apr 3, 3:36*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>>
>>> *"Dimitri" > wrote:
>>> > :-(
>>>
>>> > 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>
>>> > BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) *-- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>>> > downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>
>>> > Dimitri
>>>
>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>>> may have minimized the number of victims.
>>>
>>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>>> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>>
>> In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
>> quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
>> the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
>> end up hitting some other innocents.
>
> That's always the worry of those that don't agree with this concept.
>
>>
>> We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
>> concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
>> ground.
>>
>> Maxine
>
> It's all good. :-) I'm not a militant pro-RKBA'er.
> We can agree to disagree!
>
> What would you suggest as the solution to this problem?

gosh, how about we only let the police and army have guns?

blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:53:35 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>
>>>
>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>
>>> Dimitri
>>
>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>> may have minimized the number of victims.
>>
>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>
> Sorry Om, but I cannot agree with that. I am not an anti gun nut. I own
> a number of rifles, shotguns and handguns, but I live in Canada, where
> you have to jump through a lot of hoops to buy a gun, and handguns are
> subject to a lot of restrictions. Firearms have to be safely stored.
> Handguns have to be locked up and trigger locked, and ammunition has to
> be locked up in a separate location or case. Apparently there are a few
> permits for citizens to carry a handgun for self defence... about a half
> dozen in the whole country. Even off duty cops can't carry them.
>
> If having a lot of armed citizens prepared to hand out street justice,
> crime rates in the US, especially homicide, should be lower that here.
> They aren't. They are way higher.

to say nothing of suicide. someone gets drunk and depressed and eats a gun
barrel.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:11 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

> boulanger wrote:
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>>>>> in downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dimitri
>>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back may
>>>> have minimized the number of victims.
>
> Not everybody needs to be armed. Everybody needs the opportunity to be
> armed. (there's a difference) Only enough ppl need to be armed to keep
> the criminals guessing.
>

come on. you think this guy was rational? do you think he was thinking,
'ha ha, those poor unarmed dummies. i'll just go in there and shoot a
bunch of random people and i'll be having a beer in the corner bar ten
minutes later'?

most of these people end up shooting themselves afterwards. they're not
going to be 'deterred' by your citizen-soldiers.

blake

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:11 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
>
> That *might* be true, but what other violent crimes? Robberies?
> Assaults? Knife homicides? (How about compare the per capita rate of
> buggy-whip crimes of the Amish vs. that of citizens of Oakland,
> California. What kind of conclusions could you draw from that?)
>
> Bob

i'll start worrying about buggy-whip crimes when someone kills thirteen
people in a few minutes using a buggy-whip.

blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:56:18 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
>
> or is your thesis that if everyone is armed, no one would be crazy enough
> to start shooting people for no reason?
>

That appears to be the wierd and blinkered view that the NRA takes.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:00:30 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "phil..c" > wrote:
>
>> Disagree have a look at Canada and other countries where there is not
>> the fallacy and bizarre love affair with weapons.
>
> So, what would be your solution to stopping massacres by crazies?
>
> States where there are strict gun laws don't seem to stop it...

here's a clue: there's no stopping crazy people. it might be a good idea
to keep efficient killing machines out of their hands, though. let them
bite people to death.

blake

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:00 -0700, sf wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:36:02 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
>>This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>>may have minimized the number of victims.
>>
>>New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>>stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>
> That's total BS.

i've already seen one wingnut blame the incident on the obama
administration.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:16:41 -0700, sf wrote:

> It seems like all of the latest mass murderers were law abiding
> citizens when they bought their guns. I wonder how this one will be
> portrayed.
>

you know, it would be almost refreshing if *just once* they talked to the
dead assailant's neighbors and instead of saying 'he was a quiet type guy,'
they would say 'jesus, yes! the man was a ****ing nut case! he poisoned
my dog!'

your pal,
blake

> On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:44:16 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>>:-(
>>
>>13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>
>>
>>BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>>downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>
>>Dimitri

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:41:27 GMT, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:00 -0700, sf wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:36:02 -0600, Omelet >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>>>may have minimized the number of victims.
>>>
>>>New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>>>stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>>
>> That's total BS.
>
>i've already seen one wingnut blame the incident on the obama
>administration.
>
They showed their hand too soon. Everything was Obama's fault two
full weeks before he took office.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:47:50 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:00:30 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "phil..c" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Disagree have a look at Canada and other countries where there is not
>> >> the fallacy and bizarre love affair with weapons.
>> >
>> > So, what would be your solution to stopping massacres by crazies?
>> >
>> > States where there are strict gun laws don't seem to stop it...
>>
>> here's a clue: there's no stopping crazy people. it might be a good idea
>> to keep efficient killing machines out of their hands, though. let them
>> bite people to death.
>>
>> blake
>
>And how do you proposed to do THAT by passing more laws when, by
>definition, criminals do not obey laws?

These people were not criminals until they lost it and pulled out
their gun to solve a problem. The majority of people who are killed
by gunshot are killed with a legal weapon bought by someone they know.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Omelet wrote:

> Blake, I work in Health care. We see suicide attempts every single
> night! It's part of working the night shift. (The average workups are 1
> to 3 per night with more on weekends).
>
> Any idea how many of those attempts involve guns?
>
> I've seen only THREE in 22 years on my watch.

But, you are only seeing the attempts ... I don't think the dead ones
are making it to the triage counter.

--Lin

blake murphy wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:58:02 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
>> In article
>> >,
>> maxine > wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 3, 3:36 pm, Omelet > wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>>
>>>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>>>> :-(
>>>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center in
>>>>> downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>>> Dimitri
>>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back
>>>> may have minimized the number of victims.
>>>>
>>>> New York has draconian anti-gun laws and as you can see, those don't
>>>> stop criminals that don't obey laws.
>>> In a situation like that, the best you could hope for would be someone
>>> quick enough to take out the gunman before he ran out of ammo. But
>>> the other six folks who pull out their piece and miss the gunman may
>>> end up hitting some other innocents.
>> That's always the worry of those that don't agree with this concept.
>>
>>> We will have to agree to disagree on this topic, Om. Where food is
>>> concerned, caring for relatives, or health, we can find more common
>>> ground.
>>>
>>> Maxine
>> It's all good. :-) I'm not a militant pro-RKBA'er.
>> We can agree to disagree!
>>
>> What would you suggest as the solution to this problem?
>
> gosh, how about we only let the police and army have guns?
>
> blake


You mean like in Mexico?

blake murphy wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:18:11 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
>
>> boulanger wrote:
>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13 Dead in New York Shooting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BINGHAMTON, NY (AP) -- A gunman entered an immigration services center
>>>>>> in downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing 13 and injuring others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dimitri
>>>>> This is why the victims needed to be ARMED. The ability to shoot back may
>>>>> have minimized the number of victims.
>> Not everybody needs to be armed. Everybody needs the opportunity to be
>> armed. (there's a difference) Only enough ppl need to be armed to keep
>> the criminals guessing.
>>
>
> come on. you think this guy was rational? do you think he was thinking,
> 'ha ha, those poor unarmed dummies. i'll just go in there and shoot a
> bunch of random people and i'll be having a beer in the corner bar ten
> minutes later'?
>
> most of these people end up shooting themselves afterwards. they're not
> going to be 'deterred' by your citizen-soldiers.
>
> blake


He may have been crazy, but he wasn't stupid.

blake murphy wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:16:41 -0700, sf wrote:
>
>> It seems like all of the latest mass murderers were law abiding
>> citizens when they bought their guns. I wonder how this one will be
>> portrayed.
>>
>
> you know, it would be almost refreshing if *just once* they talked to the
> dead assailant's neighbors and instead of saying 'he was a quiet type guy,'
> they would say 'jesus, yes! the man was a ****ing nut case! he poisoned
> my dog!'
>
> your pal,
> blake
>


I think we can agree on that point :-)

Bob