http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/Science/home

"Some of the U.S. meats contained the hypervirulent C. difficile strain
responsible for severe outbreaks in hospitals in Quebec, Britain and
parts of the U.S. over the past few years, The Canadian Press has
learned. In Quebec alone, the so-called epidemic strain is blamed for
roughly 2,000 deaths in 2003 and 2004."

Make sure ground meats are cooked to high enough temperatures to kill
this bug.

Just 'living' will ALWAYS kill you.

James > wrote

> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/Science/home

> "Some of the U.S. meats contained the hypervirulent C. difficile
> strain responsible for severe outbreaks in hospitals in Quebec,
> Britain and parts of the U.S. over the past few years, The Canadian
> Press has learned. In Quebec alone, the so-called epidemic strain is
> blamed for roughly 2,000 deaths in 2003 and 2004."

Blamed by who ? Some stupid hysterical journo ? No surprises there.

> Make sure ground meats are cooked to
> high enough temperatures to kill this bug.

James wannabe Bond wrote:

> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/Science/home
>
> "Some of the U.S. meats contained the hypervirulent C. difficile strain
> responsible for severe outbreaks in hospitals in Quebec, Britain and
> parts of the U.S. over the past few years, The Canadian Press has
> learned. In Quebec alone, the so-called epidemic strain is blamed for
> roughly 2,000 deaths in 2003 and 2004."
>
> Make sure ground meats are cooked to high enough temperatures to kill
> this bug.

The article cited has been drastically edited to remove a whole lot of
mitigating information. See www.cbc.ca/cp/health/061015/x101520.html for a
more complete version of the story, and pay attention to this quote from an
authority at the Center for Disease Control:

"As far as we know, we're exposed to C. difficile all our life, from early
on in life. And there's not a lot of evidence that being exposed over and
over out in the community hurts you. It may even help you. The exception, of
course, is when you're taking antibiotics and your defences are lowered." -
Dr. Clifford McDonald, the CDC.

In other words, the vast majority of us have nothing to fear. Those with
immuno-compromised digestive systems should be more careful, but that has
ALWAYS been true.

Bob

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> James wannabe Bond wrote:
>
> > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...eat1015/BNStor
> > y/Science/home
> >
> > "Some of the U.S. meats contained the hypervirulent C. difficile strain
> > responsible for severe outbreaks in hospitals in Quebec, Britain and
> > parts of the U.S. over the past few years, The Canadian Press has
> > learned. In Quebec alone, the so-called epidemic strain is blamed for
> > roughly 2,000 deaths in 2003 and 2004."
> >
> > Make sure ground meats are cooked to high enough temperatures to kill
> > this bug.
>
> The article cited has been drastically edited to remove a whole lot of
> mitigating information. See www.cbc.ca/cp/health/061015/x101520.html for a
> more complete version of the story, and pay attention to this quote from an
> authority at the Center for Disease Control:
>
> "As far as we know, we're exposed to C. difficile all our life, from early
> on in life. And there's not a lot of evidence that being exposed over and
> over out in the community hurts you. It may even help you. The exception, of
> course, is when you're taking antibiotics and your defences are lowered." -
> Dr. Clifford McDonald, the CDC.
>
> In other words, the vast majority of us have nothing to fear. Those with
> immuno-compromised digestive systems should be more careful, but that has
> ALWAYS been true.
>
> Bob

Indeed... C. difficile is commonly present in intestinal flora. It's
only a problem when your normal flora gets wiped out and it's allowed to
take over.

This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's an
8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
believe a multi-organism supplement is better.

I had a C. difficile infection several years ago after some long term
antibiotic therapy. That takes Amikacin to get rid of and that kills off
everything else.

Then the yeast takes over.

<sigh>

Since I've started supplementing whenever I have to take antibiotics,
I've never had the problem again. Not even with yeast.
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

James wrote:
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/Science/home
>
> "Some of the U.S. meats contained the hypervirulent C. difficile strain
> responsible for severe outbreaks in hospitals in Quebec, Britain and
> parts of the U.S. over the past few years, The Canadian Press has
> learned. In Quebec alone, the so-called epidemic strain is blamed for
> roughly 2,000 deaths in 2003 and 2004."
>
> Make sure ground meats are cooked to high enough temperatures to kill
> this bug.

I have read that there is a problem with ground meat. When
an unground piece of meat gets contaminated, the
contamination is on the surface. Most methods of cooking
raise the temperature of the surface far more than the
centre. This helps a lot. When ground meat gets contaminated
it is distributed throughout the piece and the heat in the
centre may not be enough to kill the bugs.

I think the motto is that you have to be even more careful
with ground meat than regular.

Noises Off

Noises Off wrote:


> I have read that there is a problem with ground meat. When an
> unground piece of meat gets contaminated, the contamination is on the
> surface. Most methods of cooking raise the temperature of the surface
> far more than the centre. This helps a lot. When ground meat gets
> contaminated it is distributed throughout the piece and the heat in
> the centre may not be enough to kill the bugs.


Yes, yes, I know. I still want my burgers medium-rare. Most of the beef
concerns really aren't a problem for adults with a healthy immune
system, so I'll continue to take my chances.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> Noises Off wrote:
>
>
>> I have read that there is a problem with ground meat. When an
>> unground piece of meat gets contaminated, the contamination is on the
>> surface. Most methods of cooking raise the temperature of the surface
>> far more than the centre. This helps a lot. When ground meat gets
>> contaminated it is distributed throughout the piece and the heat in
>> the centre may not be enough to kill the bugs.
>
>
> Yes, yes, I know. I still want my burgers medium-rare. Most of the beef
> concerns really aren't a problem for adults with a healthy immune
> system, so I'll continue to take my chances.
> Brian

All of this is amazing news, discovered about 30 years ago. :-)

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
...
> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Noises Off wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I have read that there is a problem with ground meat. When an
>>> unground piece of meat gets contaminated, the contamination is on the
>>> surface. Most methods of cooking raise the temperature of the surface
>>> far more than the centre. This helps a lot. When ground meat gets
>>> contaminated it is distributed throughout the piece and the heat in
>>> the centre may not be enough to kill the bugs.
>>
>>
>> Yes, yes, I know. I still want my burgers medium-rare. Most of the beef
>> concerns really aren't a problem for adults with a healthy immune
>> system, so I'll continue to take my chances.
>> Brian
>
> All of this is amazing news, discovered about 30 years ago. :-)
And something is going to get us anyway. Nobody gets out of life alive.

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Default User" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Noises Off wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have read that there is a problem with ground meat. When an
>>>> unground piece of meat gets contaminated, the contamination is on the
>>>> surface. Most methods of cooking raise the temperature of the surface
>>>> far more than the centre. This helps a lot. When ground meat gets
>>>> contaminated it is distributed throughout the piece and the heat in
>>>> the centre may not be enough to kill the bugs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, yes, I know. I still want my burgers medium-rare. Most of the beef
>>> concerns really aren't a problem for adults with a healthy immune
>>> system, so I'll continue to take my chances.
>>> Brian
>>
>> All of this is amazing news, discovered about 30 years ago. :-)

> And something is going to get us anyway. Nobody gets out of life alive.
>

"It's been a rough day. I got up this morning, put on a shirt and a button
fell off. I picked up my briefcase, and the handle came off. I'm afraid to
go to the bathroom."
-Rodney Dangerfield

In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Default User" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Noises Off wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have read that there is a problem with ground meat. When an
> >>> unground piece of meat gets contaminated, the contamination is on the
> >>> surface. Most methods of cooking raise the temperature of the surface
> >>> far more than the centre. This helps a lot. When ground meat gets
> >>> contaminated it is distributed throughout the piece and the heat in
> >>> the centre may not be enough to kill the bugs.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, yes, I know. I still want my burgers medium-rare. Most of the beef
> >> concerns really aren't a problem for adults with a healthy immune
> >> system, so I'll continue to take my chances.
> >> Brian
> >
> > All of this is amazing news, discovered about 30 years ago. :-)
> And something is going to get us anyway. Nobody gets out of life alive.

There is that... ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
>antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's an
>8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
>believe a multi-organism supplement is better.

Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
eat it consistently.

--Blair

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
> will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
> eat it consistently.
--Blair

Are you implying eating too much yoghurt can be harmful? Do
you have a cite for this?

--
Reg

<Alan > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:27:07 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
>>>antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's an
>>>8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
>>>believe a multi-organism supplement is better.
>>
>>Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>>will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>>eat it consistently.
>>
>> --Blair
>
> Which is, of course, touted as a health benefit.
>
> I eat yogurt consistently, and it hasn't taken over my intestinal
> menagerie.
>
> Alan

You'll live to be 138, if you believe those old Dannon commercials. You'll
also have a beard down to your knees, and goats living in the house with
you.

What do you call a cow with no legs...


Ground beef




What do you call a cow with 2 legs...


Lean Beef

<Alan > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:27:07 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
>>>antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's an
>>>8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
>>>believe a multi-organism supplement is better.
>>
>>Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>>will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>>eat it consistently.
>>
>> --Blair
>
> Which is, of course, touted as a health benefit.
>
> I eat yogurt consistently, and it hasn't taken over my intestinal
> menagerie.
>

How do you know?

Alan wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:27:07 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
>>>antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's an
>>>8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
>>>believe a multi-organism supplement is better.
>>
>>Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>>will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>>eat it consistently.
>>
> Which is, of course, touted as a health benefit.
>
> I eat yogurt consistently, and it hasn't taken over my intestinal
> menagerie.

That's what they want you to think, comrade.

--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------
"Give me all your brains or I'll blow your money out!"
--Anonymous Unsuccessful Bank Robber

Just eating can kill you. It almost kills me every Thanksgiving!

nb

Reg > wrote:
>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>
>> Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>> will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>> eat it consistently.
>
>Are you implying eating too much yoghurt can be harmful?

Exactly the opposite. If you've got the stinky farts, a
week or two of eating yogurt twice a day will make you
sociable again.

>Do you have a cite for this?

Look around the net.

--Blair

JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
><Alan > wrote in message
.. .
>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:27:07 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>>>Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>>>will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>>>eat it consistently.
>>
>> Which is, of course, touted as a health benefit.

As was I...doing.

>> I eat yogurt consistently, and it hasn't taken over my intestinal
>> menagerie.
>
>You'll live to be 138, if you believe those old Dannon commercials. You'll
>also have a beard down to your knees, and goats living in the house with
>you.

I don't know about 138, but normalizing your gut has got
to be worth a few extra percent mortality reduction in
the fatal-gastric-event sweepstakes.

--Blair

<-> wrote:
>On 17 Oct 2006 20:06:24 +0200, "cybercat" >
>wrote:
>><Alan > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:27:07 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>>>
>>>>OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>>>This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
>>>>>antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's an
>>>>>8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
>>>>>believe a multi-organism supplement is better.
>>>>
>>>>Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>>>>will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>>>>eat it consistently.
>>>>
>>>> --Blair
>>>
>>> Which is, of course, touted as a health benefit.
>>>
>>> I eat yogurt consistently, and it hasn't taken over my intestinal
>>> menagerie.
>>
>>How do you know?
>
>Well, for other reasons, I've been tested, and my intestinal flora
>were all OK. . . .

"All OK" means you aren't carrying anything bad.

Score one for yogurt.

--Blair

<Alan > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 03:55:04 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>
>> <-> wrote:
>>>On 17 Oct 2006 20:06:24 +0200, "cybercat" >
>>>wrote:
>>>><Alan > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:27:07 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>>>>>This is why it's wise to take a probiotic when you are taking
>>>>>>>antibiotics. One excellent and inexpensive brand I use is PB-8. It's
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>8 organism balanced flora supplement. Yogurt is okay in a pinch but I
>>>>>>>believe a multi-organism supplement is better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Live-culture yogurt has up to 5 different bugs in it and
>>>>>>will take over your current intestinal menagerie if you
>>>>>>eat it consistently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Blair
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is, of course, touted as a health benefit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I eat yogurt consistently, and it hasn't taken over my intestinal
>>>>> menagerie.
>>>>
>>>>How do you know?
>>>
>>>Well, for other reasons, I've been tested, and my intestinal flora
>>>were all OK. . . .
>>
>>"All OK" means you aren't carrying anything bad.
>>
>>Score one for yogurt.
>>
>> --Blair
> Right! I didn't say it yogurt was bad. I just said that it hadn't
> "taken over".. My take is that it 'augmented'.
>
> Alan

Lots of doctors still suggest eating yogurt if you're taking antibiotics and
they whack your digestive system. It works. If it's true that TOO MUCH
yogurt can have adverse effects, I would theorize that it would primarily
happen to people to aren't especially smart. I mean....what does it take to
realize that your diet is dominated by too much of a certain thing?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


>
> Lots of doctors still suggest eating yogurt if you're taking antibiotics and
> they whack your digestive system. It works. If it's true that TOO MUCH
> yogurt can have adverse effects, I would theorize that it would primarily
> happen to people to aren't especially smart. I mean....what does it take to
> realize that your diet is dominated by too much of a certain thing?
>


Just to add an interesting tidbit...I found Yogurt gave me vicious joint
paint...in my hands, wrists, elbows and ankles. It got to the point that
it was painful to walk...then I came across a site written by a dairy
farmer whose wife suffered from the same symptoms. Somehow they
pinpointed the dairy products as the source and she quit everything
dairy (ironic...given she lives on a diary farm) and within a year, she
was completely recovered.

I did the same and within days, the pain had subsided (I had been eating
the Yogurt for only three weeks - one or two little cups a day). I've
experimented with all the dairy products since and found Yogurt to be,
by far, the worst offender. Why? I have no idea.

Six months later, I can drink milk and eat cheese with little problem.

Unfortunately, <sigh> the Yogurt got turfed from my diet. YKMV.

..

MMVIII

"cloud dreamer" > wrote in message
...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Lots of doctors still suggest eating yogurt if you're taking antibiotics
>> and they whack your digestive system. It works. If it's true that TOO
>> MUCH yogurt can have adverse effects, I would theorize that it would
>> primarily happen to people to aren't especially smart. I mean....what
>> does it take to realize that your diet is dominated by too much of a
>> certain thing?
>
>
> Just to add an interesting tidbit...I found Yogurt gave me vicious joint
> paint...in my hands, wrists, elbows and ankles. It got to the point that
> it was painful to walk...then I came across a site written by a dairy
> farmer whose wife suffered from the same symptoms. Somehow they pinpointed
> the dairy products as the source and she quit everything dairy
> (ironic...given she lives on a diary farm) and within a year, she was
> completely recovered.
>
> I did the same and within days, the pain had subsided (I had been eating
> the Yogurt for only three weeks - one or two little cups a day). I've
> experimented with all the dairy products since and found Yogurt to be, by
> far, the worst offender. Why? I have no idea.
>
> Six months later, I can drink milk and eat cheese with little problem.
>
> Unfortunately, <sigh> the Yogurt got turfed from my diet. YKMV.
> MMVIII

That's interesting. Was it any particular kind of yogurt, or various brands
and flavors?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "cloud dreamer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Lots of doctors still suggest eating yogurt if you're taking antibiotics
>>>and they whack your digestive system. It works. If it's true that TOO
>>>MUCH yogurt can have adverse effects, I would theorize that it would
>>>primarily happen to people to aren't especially smart. I mean....what
>>>does it take to realize that your diet is dominated by too much of a
>>>certain thing?
>>
>>
>>Just to add an interesting tidbit...I found Yogurt gave me vicious joint
>>paint...in my hands, wrists, elbows and ankles. It got to the point that
>>it was painful to walk...then I came across a site written by a dairy
>>farmer whose wife suffered from the same symptoms. Somehow they pinpointed
>>the dairy products as the source and she quit everything dairy
>>(ironic...given she lives on a diary farm) and within a year, she was
>>completely recovered.
>>
>>I did the same and within days, the pain had subsided (I had been eating
>>the Yogurt for only three weeks - one or two little cups a day). I've
>>experimented with all the dairy products since and found Yogurt to be, by
>>far, the worst offender. Why? I have no idea.
>>
>>Six months later, I can drink milk and eat cheese with little problem.
>>
>>Unfortunately, <sigh> the Yogurt got turfed from my diet. YKMV.
>>MMVIII
>
>
> That's interesting. Was it any particular kind of yogurt, or various brands
> and flavors?
>
>

I avoided those with artificial sweetners, so my experience is solely
with those that have non-artificial sweetners. I tried different brand
names (except for the local one) and tried both plain and those with
goodies in them (like fruit, chocolate bits etc). I really think it's
the dairy because "a lot" of cheese and milk will give a similar result,
just not as painful as the yogurt. I've reduced my cheese intake so that
I can drink as much milk as my bones need. I've also tried different
milk fat levels on all the products - the result is the same for regular
cheese, yogurt and milk as it is for the low fat varities. I drink skim
milk now.

I even tried calcium supplements to see if I could get away from the
pain, and found a similar result...so to me, I've narrowed it down to
the calcium (or perhaps the Vitamin D...so I plan to try a Vitamin D
supplement now that the season has changed).

Certainly, none of it is very encouraging as I face menopause before
long...when calcium is so important. YKMV.

..

MMVIII

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> Score one for yogurt.

Anybody remember prune yogurt? It was the other flavor (the first
beiing 'plain') back when yogurt was eaten only by health nuts who also
ate wheat germ and did coffee enemas, and it was really good.

--
Cheers,
Bev
************************************************** ***************
"...and then I'll become a veterinarian because I love children."
-- Julie Brown

It' best raw with a little salt.





On 15 Oct 2006 21:42:01 -0700, "James" > wrote:

>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/Science/home
>
>"Some of the U.S. meats contained the hypervirulent C. difficile strain
>responsible for severe outbreaks in hospitals in Quebec, Britain and
>parts of the U.S. over the past few years, The Canadian Press has
>learned. In Quebec alone, the so-called epidemic strain is blamed for
>roughly 2,000 deaths in 2003 and 2004."
>
>Make sure ground meats are cooked to high enough temperatures to kill
>this bug.