Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 18-11-2003, 09:33 PM
 
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Default Wine vinegar - need advice

I want to turn some of my wine into wine vinegar.

I have seen 'mother' available from the local wine store for reds and
whites. Is there a real difference? A friend of mine has mother that
works just fine on his wine and he makes a it with a blend of red and
white grapes.

Can I use kit wine that has been stopped with sulfates?

Can I use kit wine that has sorbate added?

What is the best way to store mother, to keep it active?

Thanks

Boatman





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Old 18-11-2003, 09:59 PM
Ken Vale
 
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Default Wine vinegar - need advice

wrote:

I want to turn some of my wine into wine vinegar.

I have seen 'mother' available from the local wine store for reds and
whites. Is there a real difference? A friend of mine has mother that
works just fine on his wine and he makes a it with a blend of red and
white grapes.

Mother of Vinegar is like yeast, it will work to turn alcohol (and
sometimes sugar) into vinegar, any type of mother will work with any
type of alcohol, some just work "better" (flavour, alcohol level, etc.)
with certain types of alcohol plus the mother comes convently
pre-packaged in a base of whatever it is suppossed to work best in (red
wine base for red wine, etc) so if you don't mind contaminating your
white wine with a red wine base (and the less optimal vinegar strain),
or vise versa, don't worry about it.

Can I use kit wine that has been stopped with sulfates?

Maybe, depends on the sulfate levels and the mother in question. Ask
the supplier.

Can I use kit wine that has sorbate added?

Probablely not, but again it would depend on the sorbate level and
the mother in question. Again ask the supplier.

What is the best way to store mother, to keep it active?

When purchased from a supplier it comes in small glass jars (about
jam sized) seems to store ok in those at or below room temperature, I
have heard of people using mother from organic apple cider vinegar with
great success (I have no idea how old said vinegar was) but I would
guess that mother lasts as long or longer than yeast.
Ken

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Old 19-11-2003, 11:46 AM
Joe Sallustio
 
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Default Wine vinegar - need advice

I make vinegar; I use my wines for the base and all of them are
sulfited to 0.8 ppm molecular. As long as you follow the normal
process there should not be an issue with normally sulfited wines. Red
or white, it's acetobacter that does the work.

You don't need to buy a mother if your friend gives you some vinegar.
Just use 1 part vinegar, two parts wine, 1 part water. That reduces
the sulfite and the alcohol content. Most store bought vinegar is dead
as an FYI.

I would not use sorbated wine, but have no idea if it's an issue or
not...

That 'clump' you see is often called the mother around here but it's
only celulose, a byproduct of the bacteria at work. The bacteria are
present in the actual vinegar, you do not need the clump.

It's pretty hard to kill a mother, they can live longer than any of
us. Some use high sulfite levels, some heat to 160 F for 5 minutes to
kill them. There is no good reason to kill them that I can think of.
Vinegar prefers warmer temps to cold when converting, but room
temperature is fine. It can take several month to convert though.

Storage at home temperatures is not an issue, mine are several years
old.

Just DO NOT make wine and vinegar in the same area, and do not mix up
equipment. If you must use it on both, use a bleach solution to kill
the acetobacter before reusing equipment on wine. It does not take a
lot of acetobacter to turn a wine to vinegar.
Regards,
Joe

wrote in message ...
I want to turn some of my wine into wine vinegar.

I have seen 'mother' available from the local wine store for reds and
whites. Is there a real difference? A friend of mine has mother that
works just fine on his wine and he makes a it with a blend of red and
white grapes.

Can I use kit wine that has been stopped with sulfates?

Can I use kit wine that has sorbate added?

What is the best way to store mother, to keep it active?

Thanks

Boatman

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Old 19-11-2003, 04:35 PM
Ray
 
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Default Wine vinegar - need advice

I think the main difference between red and white mother is the color of the
end product. If you use white to start a batch of red it will just dilute
the color a little. If you use red to start a white, it will never end up
white but will end as a Rose' which is not what you were aiming for. Now if
you want a Rose' vinegar ...

Ray

wrote in message
...
I want to turn some of my wine into wine vinegar.

I have seen 'mother' available from the local wine store for reds and
whites. Is there a real difference? A friend of mine has mother that
works just fine on his wine and he makes a it with a blend of red and
white grapes.

Can I use kit wine that has been stopped with sulfates?

Can I use kit wine that has sorbate added?

What is the best way to store mother, to keep it active?

Thanks

Boatman






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Old 19-11-2003, 11:20 PM
[email protected]
 
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Default Wine vinegar - need advice

Joe,

Thanks for your guidance.

Does the vinegar get better with age?

Is barrel aging better than glass?

Have you tried making any herbal vinegars?

Boatman

On 19 Nov 2003 03:46:43 -0800, (Joe
Sallustio) wrote:

I make vinegar; I use my wines for the base and all of them are
sulfited to 0.8 ppm molecular. As long as you follow the normal
process there should not be an issue with normally sulfited wines. Red
or white, it's acetobacter that does the work.

You don't need to buy a mother if your friend gives you some vinegar.
Just use 1 part vinegar, two parts wine, 1 part water. That reduces
the sulfite and the alcohol content. Most store bought vinegar is dead
as an FYI.

I would not use sorbated wine, but have no idea if it's an issue or
not...

That 'clump' you see is often called the mother around here but it's
only celulose, a byproduct of the bacteria at work. The bacteria are
present in the actual vinegar, you do not need the clump.

It's pretty hard to kill a mother, they can live longer than any of
us. Some use high sulfite levels, some heat to 160 F for 5 minutes to
kill them. There is no good reason to kill them that I can think of.
Vinegar prefers warmer temps to cold when converting, but room
temperature is fine. It can take several month to convert though.

Storage at home temperatures is not an issue, mine are several years
old.

Just DO NOT make wine and vinegar in the same area, and do not mix up
equipment. If you must use it on both, use a bleach solution to kill
the acetobacter before reusing equipment on wine. It does not take a
lot of acetobacter to turn a wine to vinegar.
Regards,
Joe

wrote in message ...
I want to turn some of my wine into wine vinegar.

I have seen 'mother' available from the local wine store for reds and
whites. Is there a real difference? A friend of mine has mother that
works just fine on his wine and he makes a it with a blend of red and
white grapes.

Can I use kit wine that has been stopped with sulfates?

Can I use kit wine that has sorbate added?

What is the best way to store mother, to keep it active?

Thanks

Boatman




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Old 20-11-2003, 11:23 AM
Joe Sallustio
 
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Default Wine vinegar - need advice

Does the vinegar get better with age?

I doubt it, it's pretty good at 6 months. It never sits around long
enough for me to find out. I have 9 liters I just pulled off and it
will be probably gone in 4 months. A lot of people want the vinegar.
I buy the 375 ml bottles to give it away in.

Is barrel aging better than glass?


Probably. My wines are pretty oakey to begin with; I also throw all
of the spent Stavin Beans from a years winemaking into the vinegar
crock.

If I had a spent 5 or 12 gallon barrel I would use it. I used to use
carboys but getting that cellulose out can be a real pain. I now use
new 3 gallon crocks.

Have you tried making any herbal vinegars?


Not yet, I'm making the 'rose' vinegar Ray refered to right now to do
that with.
Regards,
Joe


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