I imagine they're talking about unpasteurized vinegar, here. Takes some
months for US-type vinegar to grow a mother/madre.

http://italianfood.about.com/library...y/aa05100a.htm

B/

On Jan 19, 5:33 pm, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> I imagine they're talking about unpasteurized vinegar, here. Takes some
> months for US-type vinegar to grow a mother/madre.
>
> http://italianfood.about.com/library...y/aa05100a.htm
>
> B/

Hi Brian, I managed to find a supply of mother over there, they didn't
have malt but do have wine. I've been doing a bit of reading about
this, it seems you don't need the mother, you only need the bacteria.
But how can you be sure of getting the bacteria, filtering is supposed
to remove them. I was just given some mother but it's 8 years old and
doesn't look great, one bit might be ok, but it was fed ordinary wine
a while ago, I haven't seen any wine without sulfites in it. I don't
know if this will kill the acetobacter or not. I poured the 'wine'
away and just kept the mother to be sure. Only time will tell I guess.

Jim

TG wrote:

> On Jan 19, 5:33 pm, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>> I imagine they're talking about unpasteurized vinegar, here. Takes
>> some months for US-type vinegar to grow a mother/madre.
>>
>> http://italianfood.about.com/library...y/aa05100a.htm

> Hi Brian, I managed to find a supply of mother over there, they
> didn't have malt but do have wine. I've been doing a bit of reading
> about this, it seems you don't need the mother, you only need the
> bacteria.

That's confusing. That's like saying you don't need starter for
sourdough, just the wild yeast and bacteria.

> But how can you be sure of getting the bacteria, filtering is
> supposed to remove them. I was just given some mother but it's 8
> years old and doesn't look great,

No, it doesn't.

> one bit might be ok, but it was fed ordinary wine a while ago,

Then "feed it" the kind of wine you wish to turn into vinegar.

> I haven't seen any wine without sulfites in it. I don't know if this
> will kill the acetobacter or not. I poured the 'wine' away and just
> kept the mother to be sure. Only time will tell I guess.

I have no idea what you're wishing to accomplish here.

B/

HI Brian,

On 8 Feb, 18:54, Brian Mailman > wrote:


> That's confusing. That's like saying you don't need starter for
> sourdough, just the wild yeast and bacteria.

not quite. Saying you need the mother is like saying you need the
crust that dries on the surface of a sd starter left out to dry, the
acetobacters are all through the vinegar like the lb's and yeast are
all through the dough. I was a bit confused at first but as I thought
about it it started to make sense. Apparently the mother is a big
hindrance to commercial producers and even to the home producer it can
cause problems when it gets too big, it can fall and rot.


> > But how can you be sure of getting the bacteria, filtering is
> > supposed to remove them. I was just given some mother but it's 8
> > years old and doesn't look great,
>
> No, it doesn't.
>
> > one bit might be ok, but it was fed ordinary wine a while ago,
>
> Then "feed it" the kind of wine you wish to turn into vinegar.

commercial wine producers put sulfites into wine, which can kill the
acetobacters I don't know enough about it yet, how much is too much,
but I have found that it can be removed using food grade H2O2. I don't
have room to make wine as well, I have read you don't need to but at
the moment I don't know who to believe, it's like getting into
sourdough there's so much rubbish written.

> I have no idea what you're wishing to accomplish here.
>
> B/

To make vinegar Brian. : -)

Jim

On 8 Feb, 18:54, Brian Mailman > wrote:


> That's confusing. That's like saying you don't need starter for
> sourdough, just the wild yeast and bacteria.



>
> B/

Hi Brian,

still reading,

it seems that some people call the cellulose mass the mother, others
just describe the vinegar containing the bacteria as the mother. We
may have been talking at odds.

Jim

TG wrote:
>> I have no idea what you're wishing to accomplish here.
>
> To make vinegar Brian. : -)

Then you don't need all those words and maybe this and maybe that and
maybe the other thing.

It's not rocket science. This group isn't a debating society like
rec.food.sourdough where you need to win points.

Either obtain your mother or develop your own (takes longer).

Put it in wine.

Let it sit for a while.

Add more wine as you draw off the vinegar.

B/

TG wrote:

> On 8 Feb, 18:54, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
>
>> That's confusing. That's like saying you don't need starter for
>> sourdough, just the wild yeast and bacteria.
>
>
>
>>
>> B/
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> still reading,
>
> it seems that some people call the cellulose mass the mother, others
> just describe the vinegar containing the bacteria as the mother. We
> may have been talking at odds.

Again, this isn't rfs.

There's not a matter of "theories" on how things work and debating how
many angels can dance on the edge of a canner and who calls what which.

It's simple. Do this, this, this, and then that. Anything else is
mental masturbation.

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> It's not rocket science. Either obtain your mother or develop your own
> (takes longer).
> Put it in wine.
> Let it sit for a while.
> Add more wine as you draw off the vinegar.
> B/
Does anyone else see how funny this is? I wondered why I got cranky from
time to time...(gg) You figger it's the wine or the sitting?
Edrena

"The Joneses" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It's not rocket science. Either obtain your mother or develop your own
>> (takes longer).
>> Put it in wine.
>> Let it sit for a while.
>> Add more wine as you draw off the vinegar.
>> B/
> Does anyone else see how funny this is? I wondered why I got cranky from
> time to time...(gg) You figger it's the wine or the sitting?
> Edrena
>
>

teehee Edrena! I'm a mother too...I prefer to drink my wine, not sit in it

;-)

Kathi

On 9 Feb, 21:33, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
....
>
> teehee Edrena! I'm a mother too...I prefer to drink my wine, not sit in it
>
> ;-)
>
> Kathi

Ah, take no notice of Brian, I don't. I don't know what he's on about
either. lol.

Jim

"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 9 Feb, 21:33, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> ...
>>
>> teehee Edrena! I'm a mother too...I prefer to drink my wine, not sit in
>> it
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Kathi
>
> Ah, take no notice of Brian, I don't. I don't know what he's on about
> either. lol.
>
> Jim
>

Hey! Brian's a good guy! I just don't want to let my mother sit in my
wine...;-)
That would be sooooo gross..........

Kathi

"Kathi Jones" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TG" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On 9 Feb, 21:33, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> teehee Edrena! I'm a mother too...I prefer to drink my wine, not sit in
>>> it
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Kathi
>>
>> Ah, take no notice of Brian, I don't. I don't know what he's on about
>> either. lol.
>> Jim
>>
>
> Hey! Brian's a good guy! I just don't want to let my mother sit in my
> wine...;-)
> That would be sooooo gross..........
> Kathi
That's where you obtain a mother from somebody else...
Bought a sixpack of hard pear cider today. Not at all sweet, pretty fizzy,
fakey pear taste, wasted allowance. Drat.
Edrena

On 14 Feb, 22:55, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "TG" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > On 9 Feb, 21:33, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> > ...
>
> >> teehee Edrena! I'm a mother too...I prefer to drink my wine, not sit in
> >> it
>
> >> ;-)
>
> >> Kathi
>
> > Ah, take no notice of Brian, I don't. I don't know what he's on about
> > either. lol.
>
> > Jim
>
> Hey! Brian's a good guy! I just don't want to let my mother sit in my
> wine...;-)
> That would be sooooo gross..........
>
> Kathi

Yeah, he's a good guy, I don't take any notice when he's a bit grumpy.
We're all capable of being grumpy and kind. I assume he's being funny
that way I laugh and not get grumpy myself. The only way to cope with
rfs. lol.

Jim

On 15 Feb, 07:03, "The Joneses" > wrote:
...
> Bought a sixpack of hard pear cider today. Not at all sweet, pretty fizzy,
> fakey pear taste, wasted allowance. Drat.
> Edrena- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Might make good perrigar then. There's probably sulfites in it so you
might need to aerate it first, that'll get rid of the fizz too.

Jim

TG wrote:

> Yeah, he's a good guy, I don't take any notice when he's a bit grumpy.
> We're all capable of being grumpy and kind. I assume he's being funny
> that way I laugh and not get grumpy myself. The only way to cope with
> rfs. lol.

3rd time.... this isn't rec.food.sourdough.

B/

*followup set back to rfp*

Tell ya what, "Jim."

Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
you started.

(I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> *followup set back to rfp*
>
> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>
> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address and
> I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get you
> started.
>
> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> B/

.....good thing too...that would be cruel and unusual punishment.....<VBG>

Kathi

"Kathi Jones" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> *followup set back to rfp*
>>
>> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>>
>> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address and
>> I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get you
>> started.
>>
>> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>>
>> B/
>
> ....good thing too...that would be cruel and unusual punishment.....<VBG>
>
> Kathi
Oh, I dunno, I been accused of bein' potted once or twice...
Edrena

"The Joneses" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Kathi Jones" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> *followup set back to rfp*
>>>
>>> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>>>
>>> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
>>> and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
>>> you started.
>>>
>>> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>>>
>>> B/
>>
>> ....good thing too...that would be cruel and unusual punishment.....<VBG>
>>
>> Kathi
> Oh, I dunno, I been accused of bein' potted once or twice...
> Edrena
>
>

lol!!!

um...ya.....

Kathi

Kathi Jones wrote:

> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> *followup set back to rfp*

>> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address and
>> I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get you
>> started.
>>
>> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> .....good thing too...that would be cruel and unusual punishment.....<VBG>

Dunno... might be turning the tables. She had me contained for nearly
10 months!

B/

On 18 Feb, 20:45, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> *followup set back to rfp*
>
> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>
> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
> and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
> you started.
>
> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> B/

Lol,

I don't think customs would be too happy with you putting your mother
in a jar. : -)

Thanks so much for your kind offer Brian, I got one eventually from
Cellar Homebrew, it cost more to ship than the price of the mother but
it's here now and going well. I really do appreciate your offer
though.

Thanks

Jim

On 18 Feb, 20:45, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> *followup set back to rfp*
>
> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>
> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
> and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
> you started.
>
> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> B/

Hi Brian, sorry I replied earlier I must have clicked on 'reply to
author'.

I already got a mother, I managed to get one from cellar-homebrew.com
it cost more to ship than for the mother though but at least I have it
now.

Thanks for the offer.

Jim

On 18 Feb, 20:45, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> *followup set back to rfp*
>
> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>
> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
> and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
> you started.
>
> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> B/

I'll try to reply one more time.

Thanks for thinking of me Brian, I did manage to get one in the end
from cellar-homebrew.com.

Jim

On 18 Feb, 20:45, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> *followup set back to rfp*
>
> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>
> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
> and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
> you started.
>
> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> B/

Hi Brian,

Thanks so much for your kind offer. I'll get back to you off list.

Thanks

Jim

On Feb 18, 8:45 pm, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> *followup set back to rfp*
>
> Tell ya what, "Jim."
>
> Write to me offgroup (substitute .com for .invalid) with your address
> and I'll send you a small jar of vinegar with the mother in it to get
> you started.
>
> (I was going to say "put my mother in a jar" but thought better of it).
>
> B/

Hi Brian, thanks so much for your very kind offer. I did manage to get
hold of some mother eventually from Cellar-Homebrew.com.

I'll get back to you off list.

Jim