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Old 12-08-2005, 11:06 PM
CARP
 
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Default God hates PeTA!

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing
that moveth upon the earth.

There is nothing that indicates equality between man and beast, not here nor
anywhere else in the Scriptures. The idea of equality is insane. Even so, it
is the prevalent teaching, and widely accepted opinion of the day. The new
age people, the green peace folks, and the animal rights movement, would
have us believe that these creatures have intellect, emotion, and will just
like man. They would say that all living things have evolved within a
delicately balanced environment. Then they threaten us with unfounded
predictions of destruction. For that reason, man, beast, and environment are
of equal importance. "Mother Earth" their goddess, must be protected,
preserved, and revered, even at the expense of mankind, because all are
dependent upon Her. Is "Earth Day" a universal day of reverence toward their
god? Today's man does not see himself as superior to animals but rather that
he is himself an animal. This includes his moral and ethical accountability.
If an animal, then why not behave like one.


--
C.A.R.P. Co-founder
Eat more meat!
http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html



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Old 13-08-2005, 11:31 AM
Beach Runner
 
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CARP wrote:
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing
that moveth upon the earth.

There is nothing that indicates equality between man and beast, not here nor
anywhere else in the Scriptures. The idea of equality is insane. Even so, it
is the prevalent teaching, and widely accepted opinion of the day. The new
age people, the green peace folks, and the animal rights movement, would
have us believe that these creatures have intellect, emotion, and will just
like man. They would say that all living things have evolved within a
delicately balanced environment. Then they threaten us with unfounded
predictions of destruction. For that reason, man, beast, and environment are
of equal importance. "Mother Earth" their goddess, must be protected,
preserved, and revered, even at the expense of mankind, because all are
dependent upon Her. Is "Earth Day" a universal day of reverence toward their
god? Today's man does not see himself as superior to animals but rather that
he is himself an animal. This includes his moral and ethical accountability.
If an animal, then why not behave like one.


Can't you read? Dominion. Look it up. Care for. Control. Not Hate.
Go to a dictionary and look up the world. It also the concept
"not to cause any unnecessary pain on animals". It says to give the
animals a day of rest. It says not to muzzle an animal working a field.
It is a book of kindness to animals. If you're going to quote Torah,
know something about it.
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Old 13-08-2005, 12:02 PM
Beach Runner
 
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CARP wrote:

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing
that moveth upon the earth.

There is nothing that indicates equality between man and beast, not here nor
anywhere else in the Scriptures. The idea of equality is insane. Even so, it
is the prevalent teaching, and widely accepted opinion of the day. The new
age people, the green peace folks, and the animal rights movement, would
have us believe that these creatures have intellect, emotion, and will just
like man. They would say that all living things have evolved within a
delicately balanced environment. Then they threaten us with unfounded
predictions of destruction. For that reason, man, beast, and environment are
of equal importance. "Mother Earth" their goddess, must be protected,
preserved, and revered, even at the expense of mankind, because all are
dependent upon Her. Is "Earth Day" a universal day of reverence toward their
god? Today's man does not see himself as superior to animals but rather that
he is himself an animal. This includes his moral and ethical accountability.
If an animal, then why not behave like one.





Dominion does not mean hate. Get a dictionary. The bible says rest
work animals on Sabbath. It says not to cause unnecessary pain.
It says not to muzzle animals working field.

Further, even in killing animals, if the animal suffers unnecessary
pain, it is no longer Kosher. The Shechet must kill in one slice with a
sharp blade and not to cause pain.


Clearly you don't know the meaning of dominion. I hope this free
education is helpful to you.




From
http://ar.vegnews.org/dominion.html

Doesn't the Bible say that humans have dominion over the animals?


Yes, the Bible states this in the story of Genesis after God creates
Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. Although I myself believe in the
theory of evolution, there are some vegetarians and animal rights
activists who do believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible.
These individuals would point out that according to the literal
interpretation of Genesis, no animal ever died in the Garden of Eden.
Therefore, in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve and all the animals were
vegetarians.

In this context, the phrase "dominion over the animals" could not have
referred to killing and eating them. Many would argue that "dominion" is
more accurately interpreted as "stewardship" rather than tyranny.
Furthermore, since the Garden of Eden represents the highest ethical
ideal, some people who believe in the literal interpretation of the
Bible interpret this to mean that vegetarianism is the highest ethical
ideal.


A Jewish View



Weren't people given dominion over animals? Didn't God put them
here for our use?

Dominion does not mean that we have the right to conquer and
exploit animals. Immediately after God gave people dominion over animals
(Genesis 1:26), He prohibited their use for food (Genesis 1:29).
Dominion means guardianship or stewardship - being co-workers with God
in taking care of and improving the world. (Shabbat 119; Sanhedrin 7)

The Talmud interprets "dominion" as the privilege of using
animals for labor only.(Sanhedrin 59b) It is extremely doubtful that the
concept of dominion permits breeding animals and treating them as
machines designed solely to meet our needs. Rav Kook stated that
dominion does not imply the rule of a tyrannical ruler who cruelly
governs in order to satisfy personal desires. He also indicated that he
cannot believe that such a repulsive form of servitude could be forever
sealed in the world of God whose "tender mercies are over all His work."
(Psalm 145:9)

Rabbi Hirsch stressed that people have not been given the right
or the power to have everything subservient to them. In commenting on
Genesis 1:26, he stated, "The earth and its creatures may have other
relationships of which we are ignorant, in which they serve their own
purpose." Hence, people, according to Judaism, do not have an unlimited
right to use and abuse animals and other parts of nature.

Commenting on Genesis 1:26, Rashi stated: "If a person is found
worthy, he has dominion over the animals. If he is not found worthy, he
becomes subservient before them, and the animals rule over him."





http://www.themodernreligion.com/an_main.htm
A Muslim View:

ll of the Koran's 114 chapters except one begins with the phrase "Allah
is merciful and compassionate." A Muslim is expected to recognize the
brotherhood of man and should treat a non-Muslim as a brother. Showing
compassion and charity, Muslims believe, is doing service to God.
Therefore, it is written in the Koran "No man is a true believer unless
he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. God will
not be affectionate to that man who is not affectionate to God's
creatures. Assist any person oppressed whether he is Muslim or non-Muslim."

Mohammed repeatedly forbade cruelty to animals, saying in the Hadith
popular tradition, "Whoever is kind to the creatures of God is kind to
himself."

Similarly, Mohammed taught "A good deed done to a beast is as good as
doing good to a human being; while an act of cruelty to a beast is as
bad as an act of cruelty to a human being."

The Koran (6:38) explains that such benevolence flows directly from God:
"There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings,
but they are communities like you."

The Koran does permit meat-eating, but its also encourages healthful
foods (which, many Muslims conclude, does not include animal products).
Given these traditions, many Shi'ite Muslims and the Islamic mystics,
such as the Sufis, see vegetarianism as the Islamic ideal and choose
this diet.

Extract from "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong

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Old 13-08-2005, 01:42 PM
CARP
 
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Default

Beach Runner spewed incessantly:

Dominion does not mean hate.


Where did I say dominion equals hate, buttmunch?

Clearly you don't know the meaning of dominion. I hope this free
education is helpful to you.


*YOU* are going to educate me???

Furthermore, since the Garden of Eden represents the highest ethical
ideal, some people who believe in the literal interpretation of the
Bible interpret this to mean that vegetarianism is the highest ethical
ideal.


Here you go, ****....
Hallelujah Acres Research Casts Doubt On "Ideal Diet"
By Greg Westbrook
Former Health Minister
If you are a newcomer to the Gen 1:29 Diet, this article may not make much
sense right now. Newcomers to the diet often feel like a frisky colt in the
early going. Some even overcome serious disease on the diet.

But if you've been on the diet for several years like we were, this article
may be a godsend. After only three years on the diet, we sadly admitted to
ourselves that we were losing ground; going backwards in our health, not
forward. If you've experienced new and troubling symptoms in your health on
the Gen 1:29 Diet, take heart. You haven't failed the diet. The diet has
probably failed you.

The Gen 1:29 Biblical Health movement is built on one single verse in the
Bible, and sets itself at odds with the entire spectrum of Biblical teaching
on diet. Although there is no moral harm in personal experimentation with
the vegan diet, there is everything wrong with teaching the vegan diet as
"God's Ideal Diet" that leads to "ultimate health."

In this paper, we will closely examine a research paper by Michael
Donaldson, PhD and highlight the nutritional deficiencies he found in 141
Hallelujah vegetarian dieters. As we shall see, the diet is not "ideal"
because it has several deficiencies. It is:

a.. Too high in carbohydrates
b.. Too low in protein
c.. Low in energy (calories)
d.. Completely missing two essential micronutrients and low in seven
others
e.. Requires eating voluminous amounts of vegetables (over a gallon per
day) if properly done.
In spite of all the rhetoric from vegan diet teachers, there has never been
a civilization in the entire world that has been able to survive on the
vegan diet. Every culture depends on some type of animal products to a
degree, be it eggs, milk, cheese, or meat (even insects in third world
countries). This includes the Hunza people who are often falsely
represented as vegan even though they eat dairy and some meat. [1]

This paper is a bit lengthy, but it is filled with priceless information. I
hope you read it in its entirety and print it out to use as a reference
document. I hope you prayerfully consider all that is written herein.

Sounding the Alarm
For almost a year now, we have been sounding the alarm: The Gen 1:29 Diet
(a vegan diet) is a good short-term healing diet, but inadequate for
long-term use. We have been collecting Health Surveys [2] from long-term
dieters this past year that show a large percentage of people developing
health problems on the Gen 1:29 Diet. Many find that short-term health
gains often give way to long-term loss of vitality on the diet.

Because of potential problems with the Gen 1:29 Diet, we have switched to a
whole-Bible diet called the Plan B DietTM. [3] We call it Plan B because
it is the second diet given to mankind in Gen 9:3 in the context of blessing
Noah. Also, it is based on three B's: Basic foods, the full spectrum of
Bible teaching, and is a Balanced diet including clean animal products.
None of the junk food and junk meats in the Standard American Diet is
included in the Plan B Diet T

As I point out in my book: When Hallelujah Becomes "What Happened?" it is
not wholesome meat, dairy and eggs that has been making people sick, but the
junk foods, junk meats, junk dairy, and junk eggs in the Standard American
Diet. God did NOT give us meat to make us sick and die an early death.
When people clean up their diet, get the sugar and processed foods out, and
eat only "clean", properly grown animal products, the results can be
explosive! (Note: Click here for my book When Hallelujah Becomes "What
Happened?")

We are seeing the same short-term testimonies on the Plan B DietTM that we
used to see on the vegan Hallelujah DietSM [4] ! However, we now have no
fear that our students will hit the wall of deficiency down the road a year
or two as they did on the Hallelujah DietSM.

All that being said, why do people crash on the vegan diet after several
years? A new (2001) research paper coming from Hallelujah Acres Foundation
gives us some great new clues. Even though this study was not designed to
uncover problems with the diet, surprisingly, deficiencies were identified.
I wish I had read it in 2001 when it was first published, as it could have
helped us figure out why we crashed on the diet.

Michael Donaldson, PhD, Exposes Deficiencies In Hallelujah Vegetarians
In his 10-page article entitled Food and Nutrient Intake of Hallelujah
Vegetarians [5] , Michael Donaldson, PhD, explains the results of a study he
did on 141 people on the Hallelujah DietSM (84 women and 54 men). Dr.
Donaldson is the director of the Hallelujah Acres Foundation. You can read
the full article at: http://www.hacres.com/nutrient_intake.pdf .

After evaluating the 7-day food diaries of these Hallelujah vegetarians, Dr.
Donaldson sounds an ominous note of alarm:

"Some modifications of this dietary pattern to provide vitamins B12 and D,
and higher intakes of iron, selenium, zinc and protein may be necessary for
successful long-term health." [6] (emphasis added)

In stark contrast to Dr. Donaldson's warning above, the following summary of
his findings appears on Hallelujah Acres' website:

Source: http://www.hacres.com/articles.asp?artid=114

"What this study reveals is that intakes of most vitamins and minerals are
adequate while following The Hallelujah DietSM.

"Only vitamins B12 and D were extremely low. Hallelujah Acres recommends a
vitamin B12 supplement and sunshine, the natural source of vitamin D, to
make up for these low intakes.

Unfortunately, Hallelujah Acres makes no mention that calcium, iron,
selenium, biotin, zinc, pantothenic acid, iron and protein were also found
deficient in Dr. Donaldson's study. Rather than sweeping this valuable
information under the carpet, it needs to be highlighted in bold neon
lights.

This is a classic case of calling the tank "half full" when it is actually
"half empty." Of the 24 vitamins and minerals tracked by Dr. Donaldson,
there were significant shortages in 9 of them: calcium, vitamin D, vitamin
B12, selenium, biotin, zinc, pantothenic acid, niacin and iron. It was also
low in protein, fats and energy.

How would you like to have enough money to pay all but 9 of your bills out
of 24 bills at the end of the month? You would soon be in debt over your
head. Similarly, when our body fails to get 9 of the essential nutrients,
it is only a matter of time until deficiencies mount up.

Dr. Donaldson agrees that vitamins B12 and D are the "most critical"
deficiencies [7] , but he voices serious concerns about other deficiencies
as well: [8]

"Protein intake was very low in this population." Page 297

"Further studies are planned to evaluate the long-term effects of this low
protein diet." Page 300

"Further studies are needed to ensure that a positive calcium balance is
achieved following this dietary pattern." Page 300

"Further studies are required to determine if zinc status is compromised
following the diet surveyed here." Page 300

"Iron utilization could be impaired by sub-optimal vitamin B12 status."
Page 300

"Vitamin D status of this population has not yet been investigated." Page
301

"On low energy diets, great care must be taken to ensure adequate
nutrition; if energy intake is too low (50% of DRI [Daily Recommended
Intake], one is at risk of seriously compromising their health." Page 301

How serious are these deficiencies? I believe after reading this article,
you will agree they are very serious! We will examine these deficiencies in
detail below and show how our own Health Surveys surprisingly confirm these
deficiencies.

One more topic in this article involves the inability to stick to the diet
(frequent cheating on the diet). Again, from the Hallelujah Acres web site
comes this statement:

"Many times a diet that is lower in calories will result in widespread
deficiencies, causing hunger and inability to stick to the diet." Source:
http://www.hacres.com/articles.asp?artid=114

Indeed, this appears to be exactly what is happening on the Hallelujah
DietSM. If we did nothing but focus on the protein deficit, this alone is
staggering. Dr. Donaldson found that protein intake of the 141 Hallelujah
vegetarians (at .66 grams/day/kg body weight) was only slightly above the
minimum physiological requirement for protein. [9]

This should be considered a glaring red flag. How can a pregnant mother or
growing child or athlete expect to thrive on a protein intake barely above
minimum physiological requirement?

Not surprisingly, Dr. Donaldson found that most of the Hallelujah
vegetarians actually ate animal products during the week. A whopping 58% of
the Hallelujah vegetarians (82 out of 141) ate animal products even though
many of them were health ministers. While they probably felt guilt and
failure over eating animal products, the lack of protein in the diet may
have been a major factor in driving them to cheat.

Let's take an in-depth look at the deficiencies on the Hallelujah DietSM.

The Tank Is 27% Empty!
Low caloric intake by definition means low energy. Dr. Donaldson found the
diet on average only supplied 73% of RDI (Recommended Daily Intake) for
energy. [10] This means the energy tank is 27% empty, just over ¼ tank
low!

At first glance, this doesn't seem too severe, but on second thought, how
would you like to take a 27% cut in pay? Similarly, if you cut 27% out of
your caloric intake, it will have a severe impact on your energy level.

The Gen 1:29 Diet is often presented as a high-energy diet, but there is a
triple whammy working against the typical Hallelujah vegetarian.

First of all, the diet is inherently low in energy intake (calories) at 73%
of RDI. Secondly, as we shall see, deficiencies of zinc, pantothenic acid,
niacin, and iron are common on the diet. Each of these deficiencies can
lead to fatigue in itself. Finally, with protein quite low at only 9% of
calories, [11] there is too little protein to build muscle. (Note:
Nutritionists commonly recommend a 15% protein diet)

Perhaps this triple whammy is why we see a high percentage of people
reporting poor energy and lack of strength on our own WOW Health Surveys:
[12]

a.. Don't feel like exercising or working: 63%
b.. Lack of stamina, endurance and strength: 64%
On top of the above triple whammy comes another blow: The dieter is told
the diet isn't working because he isn't exercising enough. Unfortunately,
exercise is not the silver bullet to correct a deficient diet, and it will
only drive a person further down the deficiency curve, leading to worse
problems.

Vegetarian athletes are often cited as "proof" of high energy on the
vegetarian diet. This is very misleading, because vegetarian athletes
invariably eat dairy and eggs and/or large amounts of soy isolated protein
powders (a highly processed food). Yes, they are lacto-ovo vegetarians
eating milk and eggs, but they are absolutely NOT vegan athletes. To imply
that a vegan can do athletic sports at a world class level is misleading at
best and dishonest at worst.

Lacto-ovo vegetarian athletes are highly competitive, but a vegan athlete is
not, simply because of the low energy in his diet and inability to get
enough protein. A popular vegetarian website warns that vegans will lose
weight if they expend more than 1000 calories in sports activity (roughly
the amount of energy to play a round of golf if you carry your clubs).
Source: http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Vegetarians.htm

Protein Deficiency
As already noted, protein intake was very low, barely above minimum
physiological need for these 141 dieters. On average, men ate an average of
only 47.2 grams per day (Table IV). [13] But the average dieter is not the
one that loses his health; it's the dieters on the lower end of the scale.
How much protein did those on the lower end of the scale eat?

From Table IV, we can estimate that 9 men (16% of the men) consumed less
than 33.8 grams per day (based on standard deviation) [14] . This is
extremely low!

At 55 years of age and 153 pounds, my protein need is approximately 55-73
grams per day [15] depending on physical activity level. If I were only
getting 33.8 grams per day like some of the Hallelujah vegetarians, I would
likely suffer serious long-term problems on the diet including muscle
wasting and lost vitality. In fact, this is exactly what happened to me!

Before my years on the Gen 1:29 Diet, I always had several building and
repair projects going on around the house and farm, but after a few years on
the Gen 1:29 Diet, they all came to a grinding halt for lack of energy.
Eventually, I became so weak and feeble that I couldn't even operate some of
our equipment, such as our trencher. Work around the house became limited
to very light work: changing light bulbs, taking out the trash, sweeping out
the garage, and picking oranges from the orchard.

Muscle loss is a big concern on the Gen 1:29 Diet. A separate study by Dr.
Donaldson: Fibromyalgia syndrome improved using a mostly raw vegetarian
diet: An observational study seems to confirm muscle loss after just 7
months on the diet. In this study, subjects reported that hand strength was
down significantly (by 23%) in the right hand, and down by 17% in the left
hand. [16] With this much muscle loss after only seven months, one can
only wonder how much muscle wasting would occur after several years on the
diet. (Details are in note 16 at the end.)

I have a friend who is very meticulous in recording his workout weights and
repetitions. After a few months on the Gen 1:29 Diet, he realized that he
was losing strength since he could no longer perform at his previous level.
Now that he is no longer on the Gen 1:29 Diet, his strength is coming back
in force, and his muscular build (noticeably absent in long-term Gen 1:29
dieters) is also returning.

Since the data in Dr. Donaldson's study lumps 59 vegans in with the 82
non-vegans who ate animal products, we can only wonder how little protein
the vegans were receiving. It is most disappointing that Dr. Donaldson did
not separate the data for the 59 vegans who participated in the study, as
this surely would have painted a more accurate (probably more grim) picture
of the vegan diet.

Signs of Protein Deficiency
Early signs of protein deficiency include: [17]

a.. Increased secretion from nose and mouth
b.. Edema of hands and feet
c.. Muscle cramps and/or menstrual cramps
d.. Low tolerance for exercise
e.. Bleeding gums
Severe long-term protein deficiency with low carbohydrate intake can lead to
a condition called Failure to Thrive. Symptoms include: [18]

a.. Extreme hunger
b.. Gross weight loss
c.. Growth retardation (in infants)
d.. Wasting of subcutaneous fat
e.. Muscle wasting
f.. Reduced insulin secretion
g.. Reduced thyroid function
h.. Recurring persistent infections
On the other hand, if dietary protein is low, but carbohydrate intake is
relatively high (much like the diet of the 141 subjects), symptoms are
somewhat different:

a.. Edema (water retention, swelling). Edema is much more common in women
than men because of the effect of female hormones on the body's metabolism
and circulation. Edema is deceptive because it gives the appearance of
being "chubby", making a person appear fully nourished. [19]
b.. Chubbiness from overeating on carbohydrates with low protein
c.. "Flaky paint" dermatosis (skin flakes off like bad paint) [20]
d.. Thinning, decoloration, and reddening of the hair
e.. Enlarged fatty liver
f.. Petulant apathy (bad-tempered, cantankerous, cranky)
g.. Retarded growth (in infants)
h.. Impaired immune response
i.. Recurring persistent infections
A number of the symptoms above are fairly common on the Gen 1:29 Diet.
Fortunately, most people begin to cheat on the diet out of necessity as they
slip into deficiency. Those who cheat by eating animal products will tend
to pull out of the deficiency, whereas those who cheat with more fruit will
only fall further into protein deficiency.

Few Gen 1:29 dieters reach this point, but severe prolonged protein
deficiency in a low-energy diet can lead to a serious medical problem called
Protein-Energy Malnutrition (PEM). This condition is common in developing
countries due to deficient diets, but can also be self-inflicted by
adherence to deficient diets.

Food Sources of Protein
Animal products including beef, chicken, turkey, fish, eggs and milk are the
primary source of protein although small amounts can be obtained from fruit
and vegetables. Protein is relatively abundant in nuts, but nuts also
contain large amounts of fat, making them a less desirable source of
protein. For example, almonds are approximately 13% protein, but they are
74% fat. Walnuts are even higher in fat at 81% with only 8% protein.

Grains and legumes, if properly combined, are the best source of protein for
vegans, although they are not a significant part of the Hallelujah DietSM.

Note: As we shall see later, the Hallelujah Diet is not precisely defined
in some areas, yet followers are encouraged to do the diet 100%. Grains and
legumes are somewhat ambiguous since they do not appear at all in the ideal
diet column on page 65 of Recipes For Life [21] , but they do appear in the
food pyramid on page 63 of Recipes For Life in tiny amounts. This, of
course, leaves the dieter without clear direction.

Vegetarians (not to be confused with vegans) commonly eat eggs and dairy to
help get enough protein. Without eggs and dairy, vegans have no significant
source of protein except for soy products. We do not eat soy products since
they are highly processed, far from a basic whole food.

Vitamin And Mineral Deficiency
Several serious deficiencies were identified in the diet of the Hallelujah
Vegetarians. Table 1 shows all the deficient nutrients along with the
approximate daily need for each nutrient. High-risk individuals are
highlighted in yellow, and Extreme-risk are highlighted in red. I strongly
recommend you read this table thoroughly and understand the risks of the
vegan diet.

Calcium:
Referring to Table 1, note that all 87 Hallelujah women were low in calcium
intake. On average, daily calcium intake for the Hallelujah women was 577
mg; about half of normal daily need depending on age. However, some women
received as little calcium as 421 mg per day, placing them at extreme risk.

Calcium deficiencies can lead to brittle nails, cramps, delusions,
depression, insomnia, irritability, osteoporosis, palpitations, periodontal
disease, rickets (can lead to permanent bone deformities in children), and
tooth decay.

**Warning** Pregnant or lactating woman need 1200-1300 mg per day of
calcium and should be highly cautioned to consider the risks in light of the
scant calcium available on the Gen 1:29 Diet.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vitamin B12
Looking again at Table 1, we see an extreme risk for women for vitamin B12,
even more so if pregnant. The average intake of vitamin B12 was 0.51
mcg/day; however, this is due to the fact that over half of the Hallelujah
vegetarians ate animal products. Those who ate no animal products and did
not supplement received no vitamin B12 whatsoever, a nightmare scenario for
repeat vegan pregnancies.

Vitamin B12 deficiencies can lead to anemia, constipation, depression,
dizziness, fatigue, intestinal disturbances, headaches, irritability, loss
of vibration sensation, low stomach acid, mental disturbances, moodiness,
mouth lesions, numbness and spinal cord degeneration.

**Warning** Pregnant women need 2.6 mcg per day of calcium and should be
highly cautioned to consider the risks in light of the scant B12 available
on the Gen 1:29 Diet.

Of all the essential vitamins, B12 is the most interesting one because it
can only be obtained in appreciable amounts from animal products, not plant
sources. Yet it is an essential vitamin! Without B12, we become host to a
number of deficiency symptoms.

The fact that this vitamin is missing altogether in the vegan Hallelujah
DietSM is evidence that the diet is neither "ideal", nor viable for
long-term health maintenance. Of course, the simple "fix" is to take a
synthetic vitamin B12 supplement manufactured in a laboratory. Would God
give us an "ideal" diet that depends upon the existence of laboratories to
manufacture substances that are missing altogether in the diet?


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2005, 03:16 PM
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Beach Runner" wrote in message
. ..


CARP wrote:
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be
fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue
it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the
fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon
the earth.

There is nothing that indicates equality between man and
beast, not here nor anywhere else in the Scriptures. The idea
of equality is insane. Even so, it is the prevalent teaching,
and widely accepted opinion of the day. The new age people,
the green peace folks, and the animal rights movement, would
have us believe that these creatures have intellect, emotion,
and will just like man. They would say that all living things
have evolved within a delicately balanced environment. Then
they threaten us with unfounded predictions of destruction.
For that reason, man, beast, and environment are of equal
importance. "Mother Earth" their goddess, must be protected,
preserved, and revered, even at the expense of mankind,
because all are dependent upon Her. Is "Earth Day" a universal
day of reverence toward their god? Today's man does not see
himself as superior to animals but rather that he is himself
an animal. This includes his moral and ethical accountability.
If an animal, then why not behave like one.


Can't you read? Dominion. Look it up. Care for. Control. Not
Hate.

=====================
Then why do you hate animals so much that you contribute to
killing them by the millions, hypocrite?


Go to a dictionary and look up the world. It also the concept
"not to cause any unnecessary pain on animals".

=====================
Why do you insist on subjecting millions upon millions of animals
with unnecessary pain and death, just for your convenience and
entertainment, killer?


It says to give the
animals a day of rest. It says not to muzzle an animal working
a field.
It is a book of kindness to animals. If you're going to quote
Torah, know something about it.

====================
Unlike you, huh? You apparenetly know nothing about anything. I
suggest you demand your money back for the so-called ivy league
educaztion you claim to have. Did you attend ANY classes?




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2005, 03:19 PM
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"CARP" wrote in message
...
Beach Runner spewed incessantly:

Dominion does not mean hate.


Where did I say dominion equals hate, buttmunch?

==================
You didn't. he just interprets words the way he wants them to
be...



Clearly you don't know the meaning of dominion. I hope this
free
education is helpful to you.


*YOU* are going to educate me???

=================
Of course. Haven't you heard, he has an ivy league education!
Looks like he never attended any classes, but he claims to have
one anyway.






snippage...


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2005, 07:44 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You wrote God hates Peta.

Then justified it by quoting Genesis, and said dominion.
The association was made by you.



Beach Runner wrote:



CARP wrote:

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be
fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and
have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,
and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

There is nothing that indicates equality between man and beast, not
here nor anywhere else in the Scriptures. The idea of equality is
insane. Even so, it is the prevalent teaching, and widely accepted
opinion of the day. The new age people, the green peace folks, and the
animal rights movement, would have us believe that these creatures
have intellect, emotion, and will just like man. They would say that
all living things have evolved within a delicately balanced
environment. Then they threaten us with unfounded predictions of
destruction. For that reason, man, beast, and environment are of equal
importance. "Mother Earth" their goddess, must be protected,
preserved, and revered, even at the expense of mankind, because all
are dependent upon Her. Is "Earth Day" a universal day of reverence
toward their god? Today's man does not see himself as superior to
animals but rather that he is himself an animal. This includes his
moral and ethical accountability. If an animal, then why not behave
like one.


Can't you read? Dominion. Look it up. Care for. Control. Not Hate.
Go to a dictionary and look up the world. It also the concept
"not to cause any unnecessary pain on animals". It says to give the
animals a day of rest. It says not to muzzle an animal working a field.
It is a book of kindness to animals. If you're going to quote Torah,
know something about it.

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2005, 10:10 PM
CARP
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner spewed incessantly:

You wrote God hates Peta.

Then justified it by quoting Genesis, and said dominion.
The association was made by you.


and you must drive from New York to New Jersey by way of California, right?


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2005, 10:29 PM
CARP
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner spewed incessantly:

Can't you read?


absolutely.

Dominion. Look it up. Care for. Control.


You look it up, because your Ivy League definition above is wrong...

1 : DOMAIN
2 : supreme authority : SOVEREIGNTY
3 plural : an order of angels -- see CELESTIAL HIERARCHY
4 often capitalized : a self-governing nation of the Commonwealth of Nations
other than the United Kingdom that acknowledges the British monarch as chief
of state
5 : absolute ownership


Main Entry: do·main
Pronunciation: dO-'mAn, d&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English domayne, from Middle French domaine, demaine, from
Latin dominium, from dominus
1 a : complete and absolute ownership of land -- compare EMINENT DOMAIN b :
land so owned
2 : a territory over which dominion is exercised
3 : a region distinctively marked by some physical feature the domain of
rushing streams, tall trees, and lakes
4 : a sphere of knowledge, influence, or activity the domain of art
5 : the set of elements to which a mathematical or logical variable is
limited; specifically : the set on which a function is defined
6 : any of the small randomly oriented regions of uniform magnetization in a
ferromagnetic substance
7 : INTEGRAL DOMAIN
8 : the highest taxonomic category in biological classification ranking
above the kingdom


Main Entry: sov·er·eign·ty
Variant(s): also sov·ran·ty /-tE/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English soverainte, from Middle French soveraineté, from
Old French, from soverain
1 obsolete : supreme excellence or an example of it
2 a : supreme power especially over a body politic b : freedom from external
control : AUTONOMY c : controlling influence
3 : one that is sovereign; especially : an autonomous state


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 01:07 AM
thiqued
 
Posts: n/a
Default

CARP wrote:
Beach Runner spewed incessantly:


Can't you read?



absolutely.


Dominion. Look it up. Care for. Control.



You look it up, because your Ivy League definition above is wrong...

1 : DOMAIN
2 : supreme authority : SOVEREIGNTY
3 plural : an order of angels -- see CELESTIAL HIERARCHY
4 often capitalized : a self-governing nation of the Commonwealth of Nations
other than the United Kingdom that acknowledges the British monarch as chief
of state
5 : absolute ownership


Main Entry: do·main
Pronunciation: dO-'mAn, d&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English domayne, from Middle French domaine, demaine, from
Latin dominium, from dominus
1 a : complete and absolute ownership of land -- compare EMINENT DOMAIN b :
land so owned
2 : a territory over which dominion is exercised
3 : a region distinctively marked by some physical feature the domain of
rushing streams, tall trees, and lakes
4 : a sphere of knowledge, influence, or activity the domain of art
5 : the set of elements to which a mathematical or logical variable is
limited; specifically : the set on which a function is defined
6 : any of the small randomly oriented regions of uniform magnetization in a
ferromagnetic substance
7 : INTEGRAL DOMAIN
8 : the highest taxonomic category in biological classification ranking
above the kingdom


Main Entry: sov·er·eign·ty
Variant(s): also sov·ran·ty /-tE/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English soverainte, from Middle French soveraineté, from
Old French, from soverain
1 obsolete : supreme excellence or an example of it
2 a : supreme power especially over a body politic b : freedom from external
control : AUTONOMY c : controlling influence
3 : one that is sovereign; especially : an autonomous state



You know, quoting those definitions doesn't really help your case. Even
if man has been given absolute ownership over animals that does not mean
that it is right for man to do whatever he wants to them, only that he
is able to. Using that absolute ownership to hurt them seems pretty
abusive.


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 01:30 AM
CARP
 
Posts: n/a
Default

thiqued spewed incessantly:

You know, quoting those definitions doesn't really help your case


I don't have a case to prove. I was correcting beachboys statement that I
didn't know how to read.

Using that absolute ownership to hurt them
seems pretty abusive.


I don't hurt any animals, unless I am going to eat them. I am a meat
eating, hunting, fishing, fiend. I hate PeTA and every loser that supports
them.


  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 03:13 AM
thiqued
 
Posts: n/a
Default

CARP wrote:
thiqued spewed incessantly:


You know, quoting those definitions doesn't really help your case



I don't have a case to prove. I was correcting beachboys statement that I
didn't know how to read.


Using that absolute ownership to hurt them
seems pretty abusive.



I don't hurt any animals, unless I am going to eat them. I am a meat
eating, hunting, fishing, fiend. I hate PeTA and every loser that supports
them.



Do you hate all people that think meat eating is wrong or just members
of PeTA? They aren't necessarily the same. It's like me assuming that
you are an NRA member. (Which actually seems like a more reliable
assumption to make.) I disagree with PeTA but I have been a vegetarian
for many years.

I guess I really don't understand the point of your posting then. You
started out saying something like veganism is a sign of a general moral
decline but you quickly abandon moral, philosophical, and biblical
arguments in favor of just calling people "****" and asserting that you
"hate" so and so. What kind of background are you coming from? It
seems like your hateful rhetoric is kind of hypocritical for a person
who would base their argument on a bible verse.

It seems to me that the argument of a general moral decline would be
better evidenced by pointing out those who flaunt how much they kill and
who use scripture to back up their hatred.
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 03:44 AM
CARP
 
Posts: n/a
Default

thiqued spewed incessantly:

Do you hate all people that think meat eating is wrong or just members
of PeTA?


PeTA

It's like me assuming that you are an NRA member.


I am not.

I guess I really don't understand the point of your posting then.


I hate PeTA

You started out saying something like veganism is a sign of a general
moral decline


Where?


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 07:41 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't care for Peta's actions. But who are you to say God hates Peta.

CARP wrote:

thiqued spewed incessantly:


Do you hate all people that think meat eating is wrong or just members
of PeTA?



PeTA


It's like me assuming that you are an NRA member.



I am not.


I guess I really don't understand the point of your posting then.



I hate PeTA


You started out saying something like veganism is a sign of a general
moral decline



Where?


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 08:37 PM
thiqued
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You started out saying something like veganism is a sign of a general
moral decline



Where?


From the end of your first post:

"Today's man does not see himself as superior to animals but rather that
he is himself an animal. This includes his moral and ethical
accountability.
If an animal, then why not behave like one."


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