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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.

YECCCHHH!

It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
drunk, provided you can keep it down.

If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
change my views, please let me know.

Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.


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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

Confused wrote:
> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
> change my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.
>
>


Rosemount Estate Diamond Label Shiraz/Cab
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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

Confused wrote:
> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
> change my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.
>
>


There is a world of difference between "Old World" and "New World"
wines, with the former being less fruit-driven than the latter. But the
fact that you like Chilean Cabs and Californian wines would seem to
indicate that that isn't where your problems arise. Also, your
description of what you encounter in them would tend to suggest other
explanations, too. Since you appear to be in the UK, what Aussie wines
have you based this conclusion on? Is it possible that you've only been
exposed to their plonk and haven't yet had one of the better examples?
I am not a big fan of many Aussie wines, either, because I find them too
"gobby" (jammy fruit and lacking in acidity) to pair with food.
However, I have enjoyed certain of Penfolds wines, especially their Bin
389 Cab-Shiraz and their Bin 28 Kalimna Shiraz, so maybe try one if you
haven't already.

Good luck!
Mark Lipton

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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

Mark

More like a troll from this side of the pond.

BTW, had Penfolds RWT 2001 on Friday night. Thick as port, oaky syrah nose
which was complex and subdued, huge fruit entry with tannins ++, yet very
drinkable. The boss said not her kind of wine, but after an hour had opened
up, spice and toothpaste, Drinking now but will try again 3 years,


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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

Claifornia, France, Chile, and Spain produce their fair share of swill
as well. I suspect you've been limiting yourself to the 'swill' end of
the Australian market.
Try some of these -
D'Arenberg (Coppermine, Dead Arm, etc at the high end, but also some
of the Marsanne blends, and mid-range reds) Torbreck - from the Cuvee
Juveniles GSM, to their higher end Syrah blends.

In article >
> wrote:

> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French,
> Italian,Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except
> Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets
> youdrunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that
> mightchange my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja
> orChilean Cabernet Sauvignon.
>
>
>


--
I'm trying a new usenet client for Mac, Nemo OS X.
You can download it at http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo



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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

John T wrote:
> Mark
>
> More like a troll from this side of the pond.


I wondered about that, but didn't do the research to establish one way
or another. The question seemed sincere, though.
>
> BTW, had Penfolds RWT 2001 on Friday night. Thick as port, oaky syrah nose
> which was complex and subdued, huge fruit entry with tannins ++, yet very
> drinkable. The boss said not her kind of wine, but after an hour had opened
> up, spice and toothpaste, Drinking now but will try again 3 years,


Spice and toothpaste: what a gustatory "image." I don't know the RWT,
but a recent (ca. '06) taste of the Penfolds lineup left me quite let
down: across the board, too minty and/or oaky for my tastes. No St.
Henri, Kamlimna or 389, though, and they are usually my favorites of the
lineup.

Mark Lipton
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On Jun 18, 3:03 pm, "Confused" > wrote:
> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
> change my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.


Well, "Confused", I guess it's a matter of taste - I liked most of the
Aussie wines I tried BECAUSE they were on the acidic side. As a Yank,
I get American produce most of the time, but I sometimes venture into
other countries' wines.

Dan-O

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On Jun 18, 3:03 pm, "Confused" > wrote:
> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
> change my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.


Monty Python's Flying Circus -
"Australian Table Wines"

[ from the album Monty Python's Previous Record, 1972 ]

The Players:
Eric Idle - Wine Expert;
The Scene:
Soft introduction music plays .....

WINE EXPERT:
A lot of people in this country pooh-pooh Australian table wines.
This is a pity as many fine Australian wines appeal not only to the
Australian palate but also to the cognoscenti of Great Britain.

Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured
Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's
best sugary wines.

Chteau Blue, too, has won many prizes; not least for its taste,
and its lingering afterburn.

Old Smokey 1968 has been compared favourably to a Welsh claret,
whilst the Australian Wino Society thoroughly recommends a 1970 Coq du
Rod Laver, which, believe me, has a kick on it like a mule: eight
bottles of this and you're really finished. At the opening of the
Sydney Bridge Club, they were fishing them out of the main sewers
every half an hour.

Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a
bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a
wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

Another good fighting wine is Melbourne Old-and-Yellow, which is
particularly heavy and should be used only for hand-to-hand combat.

Quite the reverse is true of Chteau Chunder, which is an
appellation contrôlée, specially grown for those keen on
regurgitation; a fine wine which really opens up the sluices at both
ends.

Real emetic fans will also go for a Hobart Muddy, and a prize
winning Cuivre Reserve Chteau Bottled Nuit San Wogga Wogga, which has
a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit.

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On Jun 18, 3:03 pm, "Confused" > wrote:
> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
> change my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.


It's OK to give it another go -- another last shot; and it's OK to
just drink other wines from other countries. But there are so many
other countries to choose from; why waste your time on Australian
wines? Price? Availability?

I've decided not to spend my money or time and energy looking for
another Australian wine. I gave up that ghost a while ago. (Although
I did write down Mark's recommendation, I'll probably use the money
for a bottle from another country.)
Dee Dee



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>UC wrote:
>
>> Monty Python's Flying Circus -
>> "Australian Table Wines"
>>
>> [ from the album Monty Python's Previous Record, 1972 ]
>>
>> Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured
>> Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's
>> best sugary wines.


Black Stump actually exists

The Black Stump Durif Shiraz 2005

http://www.laithwaites.co.uk/product...ode~37894.pasp

James
James Dempster

You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.


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It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad blender.
As an Aussie, I'll be the first to accept that our wine industry exports a
lot of crap where it thinks it will be accepted just because of the label.
Of the bulk-produced labels exported, Rosemount diamond label (already
mentioned) is a good starting point for an acceptable brand. Work upwards
from there!
Beware of phrases on the bottle such as "Produce of South Eastern
Australia". Its not a specific wine region and usually means "cobbled
together from what we could buy cheap".
Buy wine from well accepted specific regions, such as Hunter Valley, Yarra
Valley, Mornington Peninsula, Eden Valley, Clare Valley, Barrossa Valley,
Margaret River, Swan Valley.
Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the bottom of the
barrel.

"Confused" > wrote in message
...
>I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
> YECCCHHH!
>
> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
> change my views, please let me know.
>
> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.
>
>



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On Jun 20, 5:59 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
> It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad blender.


> Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the bottom of the
> barrel.


Thanks for your thoughtful reply. However, I've tried more than my
share. Not all were cork tainted nor have I been connned -- as far as
I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.
Dee Dee


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I have always found the vast majority of Aussie wines have the same
"cooked" flavor that is common with wines which were produced from
central California valley grapes. I have also noted the flavor in
bottles that have been shown the oven in some way - maybe it is the
shipping methods of the more "inexpensive" Aussie wineries.


On 2007-06-20 14:59:43 -0700, "Potblak" > said:

> It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad blender.
> As an Aussie, I'll be the first to accept that our wine industry exports a
> lot of crap where it thinks it will be accepted just because of the label.
> Of the bulk-produced labels exported, Rosemount diamond label (already
> mentioned) is a good starting point for an acceptable brand. Work upwards
> from there!
> Beware of phrases on the bottle such as "Produce of South Eastern
> Australia". Its not a specific wine region and usually means "cobbled
> together from what we could buy cheap".
> Buy wine from well accepted specific regions, such as Hunter Valley, Yarra
> Valley, Mornington Peninsula, Eden Valley, Clare Valley, Barrossa Valley,
> Margaret River, Swan Valley.
> Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the bottom of the
> barrel.
>
> "Confused" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
>> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>>
>> YECCCHHH!
>>
>> It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
>> drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>>
>> If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
>> change my views, please let me know.
>>
>> Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
>> Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.



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On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
wrote:

> On Jun 20, 5:59 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
> > It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad blender.

>
> > Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the bottom of the
> > barrel.

>
> Thanks for your thoughtful reply. However, I've tried more than my
> share. Not all were cork tainted nor have I been connned -- as far as
> I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.



Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.

To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
being able to do this consistently.

--
Ken Blake
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I second the motion! Try a Pinot Noir from the Yarra Valley. It
won't be the big jammy Shiraz style you seem to be running into and
not enjoying.



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On Jun 20, 10:53 pm, Ken Blake >
wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 20, 5:59 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
> > > It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad blender.

>
> > > Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the bottom of the
> > > barrel.

>
> > Thanks for your thoughtful reply. However, I've tried more than my
> > share. Not all were cork tainted nor have I been connned -- as far as
> > I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.

>
> Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
> they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.
>
> To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
> blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
> pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
> pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
> pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
> being able to do this consistently.
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup


I agree with you. Because my guess is that I will not come close to
being able to do this with wines from Chile & Portugal; etc. etc. I
applaud people that can. I've seen experts do taste testing, and I'm
no expert. I appreciate your advice, tho. I hear what you're
saying.

DH just came home with 11 bottles of wine from Gary's in New Jersey.
8 were from Spain, 2 from France, 1 from Italy. We used to drink
Spanish wines in the 70's, so we thought we'd go thru some again. His
preference is France, then Italian; mine Italian, though we do try
others.

Dee





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On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:45:26 -0700, Dee Dee >
wrote:

> On Jun 20, 10:53 pm, Ken Blake >
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
> > wrote:


> > > I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.

> >
> > Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
> > they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.
> >
> > To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
> > blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
> > pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
> > pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
> > pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
> > being able to do this consistently.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Blake
> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

>
> I agree with you. Because my guess is that I will not come close to
> being able to do this with wines from Chile & Portugal; etc. etc. I
> applaud people that can. I've seen experts do taste testing, and I'm
> no expert. I appreciate your advice, tho. I hear what you're
> saying.



If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment, but
my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that you
don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are not able
to identify that a wine is from Australia.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Jun 21, 4:45 am, Dee Dee > wrote:
> On Jun 20, 10:53 pm, Ken Blake >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
> > wrote:

>
> > > On Jun 20, 5:59 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
> > > > It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad blender.

>
> > > > Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the bottom of the
> > > > barrel.

>
> > > Thanks for your thoughtful reply. However, I've tried more than my
> > > share. Not all were cork tainted nor have I been connned -- as far as
> > > I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.

>
> > Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
> > they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.

>
> > To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
> > blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
> > pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
> > pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
> > pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
> > being able to do this consistently.

>
> > --
> > Ken Blake
> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

>
> I agree with you. Because my guess is that I will not come close to
> being able to do this with wines from Chile & Portugal; etc. etc. I
> applaud people that can. I've seen experts do taste testing, and I'm
> no expert. I appreciate your advice, tho. I hear what you're
> saying.
>
> DH just came home with 11 bottles of wine from Gary's in New Jersey.
> 8 were from Spain, 2 from France, 1 from Italy. We used to drink
> Spanish wines in the 70's, so we thought we'd go thru some again. His
> preference is France, then Italian; mine Italian, though we do try
> others.



Dee Dee what were the French wines please? tonight at dinner I had a
Beaune, it was superb and i don't like reds too much!!!

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On Jun 21, 3:08 pm, Ken Blake >
wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:45:26 -0700, Dee Dee >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 10:53 pm, Ken Blake >
> > wrote:
> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.

>
> > > Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
> > > they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.

>
> > > To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
> > > blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
> > > pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
> > > pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
> > > pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
> > > being able to do this consistently.

>
> > > --
> > > Ken Blake
> > > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

>
> > I agree with you. Because my guess is that I will not come close to
> > being able to do this with wines from Chile & Portugal; etc. etc. I
> > applaud people that can. I've seen experts do taste testing, and I'm
> > no expert. I appreciate your advice, tho. I hear what you're
> > saying.

>
> If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment, but
> my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that you
> don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are not able
> to identify that a wine is from Australia.
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


You win!
Dee

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On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:31:42 -0700, Dee Dee >
wrote:

> On Jun 21, 3:08 pm, Ken Blake >
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:45:26 -0700, Dee Dee >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 20, 10:53 pm, Ken Blake >
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.

> >
> > > > Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
> > > > they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.

> >
> > > > To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
> > > > blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
> > > > pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
> > > > pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
> > > > pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
> > > > being able to do this consistently.

> >
> > > > --
> > > > Ken Blake
> > > > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

> >
> > > I agree with you. Because my guess is that I will not come close to
> > > being able to do this with wines from Chile & Portugal; etc. etc. I
> > > applaud people that can. I've seen experts do taste testing, and I'm
> > > no expert. I appreciate your advice, tho. I hear what you're
> > > saying.

> >
> > If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment, but
> > my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that you
> > don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are not able
> > to identify that a wine is from Australia.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Blake
> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> You win!



I wasn't trying to win, but just trying to help.


--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


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Confused wrote:
> I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
> Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.


The only Aussie wines I enjoy are Shiraz and Shiraz blends. Aussie
knows how to make them far better than California. Try Penfolds Grange
if you can afford it.

I used to enjoy Penfolds 707 Cab but its gotten expensive and not as
good as it was in earlier years.
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Default Am I the only person who hates Australian wine?

Ken Blake wrote:

> If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment, but
> my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that you
> don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are not able
> to identify that a wine is from Australia.


That is simply not true. An Aussie winery can produce a wine that is
nearly identical in characteristics of a California wine and both are
horrible swill. It may very well be that it isn't a particular common
style inherent in most Aussie wines thats at issue. It's trying to find
one that fits the OP's tastes.

I don't care for most French reds as I prefer up front fruit thats more
common with California wines. However, there are California reds that
aren't fruit forward and there are some French reds that are.
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"Ken Blake" wrote .....
>
> If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment,
> but my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that
> you don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are
> not able to identify that a wine is from Australia.
>


Ken I must agree totally.

For a start, how on earth can anyone lump together all the wines produced in
that country as "Australian"!!

That is the same as grouping all wines produced in the USA as "American" -
not allowing any latitude for regional differences, or the size and

Firstly, for all you geographically challenges contributors, did you know
that mainland Australia is actually larger in area than mainland USA?

Once you accept this very minor fact, are you now bleating that you don't
like US wines because you don't like wines from the Finger Lakes region out
East?

If you shout from the highest hills that you don't like US wine, based on
the fact that your experience is based on shitty jug wines from an
industrial producer in Ca., then you have absolutely no credibility: and
arguing with such a person is a waste of time and energy.

As previously mentioned, Australia is larger than the USA; the wine
producing regions of Hunter Valley (NSW) and Yarra Valley (Victoria) are
just as far from Margaret River (Western Australia) as Boston is from San
Francisco.

So, for anyone to just lump the whole Australian wine industry into one
general heading just proves the OPs ignorance.

Trying to compare Shiraz from Heathcote (Vic) vs Hunter Valley vs McLaren
Vale requires more than buying some cheap crap with a colourful label in
Ohio.

Until one has tried some 25 year old aged Semillon from the Hunter Valley;
or a 50 year old Muscat from Rutherglen; or a serious Pinot Noir from
Mornington; or some sensational Chardonnay from Western Australia - or
worked through a vertical of Grange or Hill of Grace (or any other very
serious red from South Australia) covering 15-20 years, then you know
jackshit about Australian wines.

And if the sum total of your experience amounts to wines of the ilk of Two
Buck Chuck or some industrial plonk from the Languedoc - I need say no
more.

--

st.helier


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st.helier wrote:

> "Ken Blake" wrote .....
>>
>> If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need
>> to add this comment, but my point is simply
>> that it doesn't make much sense to say that you
>> don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace
>> else) if you are not able to identify that a
>> wine is from Australia.
>>

>
> Ken I must agree totally.
>
> For a start, how on earth can anyone lump
> together all the wines produced in that country
> as "Australian"!!
>
> That is the same as grouping all wines produced
> in the USA as "American" - not allowing any
> latitude for regional differences, or the size
> and
>
> Firstly, for all you geographically challenges
> contributors, did you know that mainland
> Australia is actually larger in area than
> mainland USA?
>
> Once you accept this very minor fact, are you
> now bleating that you don't like US wines
> because you don't like wines from the Finger
> Lakes region out East?
>
> If you shout from the highest hills that you
> don't like US wine, based on the fact that your
> experience is based on shitty jug wines from an
> industrial producer in Ca., then you have
> absolutely no credibility: and arguing with such
> a person is a waste of time and energy.
>
> As previously mentioned, Australia is larger
> than the USA; the wine
> producing regions of Hunter Valley (NSW) and
> Yarra Valley (Victoria) are just as far from
> Margaret River (Western Australia) as Boston is
> from San Francisco.
>
> So, for anyone to just lump the whole Australian
> wine industry into one general heading just
> proves the OPs ignorance.
>
> Trying to compare Shiraz from Heathcote (Vic) vs
> Hunter Valley vs McLaren
> Vale requires more than buying some cheap crap
> with a colourful label in Ohio.
>
> Until one has tried some 25 year old aged
> Semillon from the Hunter Valley; or a 50 year
> old Muscat from Rutherglen; or a serious Pinot
> Noir from Mornington; or some sensational
> Chardonnay from Western Australia - or worked
> through a vertical of Grange or Hill of Grace
> (or any other very serious red from South
> Australia) covering 15-20 years, then you know
> jackshit about Australian wines.
>
> And if the sum total of your experience amounts
> to wines of the ilk of Two
> Buck Chuck or some industrial plonk from the
> Languedoc - I need say no more.
>
> --
>
> st.helier


AGREE

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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:58:12 +1200, "st.helier"
> wrote:

>"Ken Blake" wrote .....
>>
>> If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment,
>> but my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that
>> you don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are
>> not able to identify that a wine is from Australia.
>>

>
>Ken I must agree totally.
>
>For a start, how on earth can anyone lump together all the wines produced in
>that country as "Australian"!!
>
>That is the same as grouping all wines produced in the USA as "American" -
>not allowing any latitude for regional differences, or the size and
>
>Firstly, for all you geographically challenges contributors, did you know
>that mainland Australia is actually larger in area than mainland USA?
>
>Once you accept this very minor fact, are you now bleating that you don't
>like US wines because you don't like wines from the Finger Lakes region out
>East?
>
>If you shout from the highest hills that you don't like US wine, based on
>the fact that your experience is based on shitty jug wines from an
>industrial producer in Ca., then you have absolutely no credibility: and
>arguing with such a person is a waste of time and energy.
>
>As previously mentioned, Australia is larger than the USA; the wine
>producing regions of Hunter Valley (NSW) and Yarra Valley (Victoria) are
>just as far from Margaret River (Western Australia) as Boston is from San
>Francisco.
>
>So, for anyone to just lump the whole Australian wine industry into one
>general heading just proves the OPs ignorance.
>
>Trying to compare Shiraz from Heathcote (Vic) vs Hunter Valley vs McLaren
>Vale requires more than buying some cheap crap with a colourful label in
>Ohio.
>
>Until one has tried some 25 year old aged Semillon from the Hunter Valley;
>or a 50 year old Muscat from Rutherglen; or a serious Pinot Noir from
>Mornington; or some sensational Chardonnay from Western Australia - or
>worked through a vertical of Grange or Hill of Grace (or any other very
>serious red from South Australia) covering 15-20 years, then you know
>jackshit about Australian wines.
>
>And if the sum total of your experience amounts to wines of the ilk of Two
>Buck Chuck or some industrial plonk from the Languedoc - I need say no
>more.


I think I love you...:>)

hooroo....


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On Jun 22, 3:58 am, "st.helier" > wrote:

>
> So, for anyone to just lump the whole Australian wine industry into one
> general heading just proves the OPs ignorance.
>
> And if the sum total of your experience amounts to wines of the ilk of Two
> Buck Chuck or some industrial plonk from the Languedoc - I need say no
> more.
>
> --
>
> st.helier


Je deteste Americano vino, tambien.
he he he
Dee


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Here's one to look for, Dee Dee,

I just came across a South Australian Cabernet clealry labeled for export to
USA.
Its called, "Bootleg" from Lopresti Wines, and to my mind, tasted almost
Californian!

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jun 22, 3:58 am, "st.helier" > wrote:
>
>>
>> So, for anyone to just lump the whole Australian wine industry into one
>> general heading just proves the OPs ignorance.
>>
>> And if the sum total of your experience amounts to wines of the ilk of
>> Two
>> Buck Chuck or some industrial plonk from the Languedoc - I need say no
>> more.
>>
>> --
>>
>> st.helier

>
> Je deteste Americano vino, tambien.
> he he he
> Dee
>
>



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" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 21, 4:45 am, Dee Dee > wrote:
>> On Jun 20, 10:53 pm, Ken Blake >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:14:41 -0700, Dee Dee >
>> > wrote:

>>
>> > > On Jun 20, 5:59 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
>> > > > It sounds like you've been drinking cork tainted wine from a bad
>> > > > blender.

>>
>> > > > Don't give up because you've been conned into buying from the
>> > > > bottom of the
>> > > > barrel.

>>
>> > > Thanks for your thoughtful reply. However, I've tried more than my
>> > > share. Not all were cork tainted nor have I been connned -- as far as
>> > > I know ;-)) Just don't like Australian wines that I've tried.

>>
>> > Australia, just like other places in the world, makes fine wines and
>> > they make cheap poor wines. And others in between.

>>
>> > To verify this, I would suggest that you get someone to arrange a
>> > blind tasting for you of decent wines (don't choose cheap ones), in
>> > pairs--one from Australia and the other from elsewhere, each of the
>> > pair made from the same grape. See if you can pick out which of each
>> > pair is from Australia. My guess is that you will not come close to
>> > being able to do this consistently.

>>
>> > --
>> > Ken Blake
>> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

>>
>> I agree with you. Because my guess is that I will not come close to
>> being able to do this with wines from Chile & Portugal; etc. etc. I
>> applaud people that can. I've seen experts do taste testing, and I'm
>> no expert. I appreciate your advice, tho. I hear what you're
>> saying.
>>
>> DH just came home with 11 bottles of wine from Gary's in New Jersey.
>> 8 were from Spain, 2 from France, 1 from Italy. We used to drink
>> Spanish wines in the 70's, so we thought we'd go thru some again. His
>> preference is France, then Italian; mine Italian, though we do try
>> others.

>
>
> Dee Dee what were the French wines please? tonight at dinner I had a
> Beaune, it was superb and i don't like reds too much!!!
>

Ah! Cotes de Beaune!
A perfect entry level to French Reds.
I remember it well!



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<Ronin> wrote in message ...
>I have always found the vast majority of Aussie wines have the same
>"cooked" flavor that is common with wines which were produced from central
>California valley grapes. I have also noted the flavor in bottles that
>have been shown the oven in some way - maybe it is the shipping methods of
>the more "inexpensive" Aussie wineries.
>


That's a very typical flavour of the Hunter Valley and some other regions
(Riverland, Western New South Wales, etc) which simply get too hot at the
height of summer.



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On Jun 24, 7:30 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
> Here's one to look for, Dee Dee,
>
> I just came across a South Australian Cabernet clealry labeled for export to
> USA.
> Its called, "Bootleg" from Lopresti Wines, and to my mind, tasted almost
> Californian!


Thanks, I'll add it to my list and keep a look-out for it. Quite a
name!
Dee Dee




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On Jun 24, 7:31 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:

>
> >> DH just came home with 11 bottles of wine from Gary's in New Jersey.
> >> 8 were from Spain, 2 from France, 1 from Italy. We used to drink
> >> Spanish wines in the 70's, so we thought we'd go thru some again. His
> >> preference is France, then Italian; mine Italian, though we do try
> >> others.

>
> > Dee Dee what were the French wines please? tonight at dinner I had a
> > Beaune, it was superb and i don't like reds too much!!!

>
> Ah! Cotes de Beaune!
> A perfect entry level to French Reds.
> I remember it well!
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


One was
http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10702551
- we haven't opened.

The other one was one that DH drank, not at home, so I didn't share.
http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10183452
He is undecided as to whether he would recommend.

DH likes Gary's
http://www.wineaccess.com/store/garyswine/
a little better than
MacArthur Beverages in Washington, D.C.

Here is one we will try next trip to Gary's, an Australian Shiraz.
http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...tter_id=124381


A local young man who did some landscaping and patio work for us
recentley whose surname is Beaune says that his ancestors have been
traced to France. Here in the country, in Virginia, it is pronounced
"Bow in." (like bow and arrow). :-))

Dee Dee










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In article >,
says...
>
>I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
>Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>
>YECCCHHH!
>
>It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
>drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>
>If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
>change my views, please let me know.
>
>Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
>Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.


Unfortunately, in the UK, you are limited in you selections of OZ and US
wines. OTOH, you DO get some great FR, ES and other European wines. Based on
the OZ offerings, that I have had in the UK, I tend to agree with you. Based
on what I have encountered from the US, I understand why folk in the UK might
think that all US wine is dreck!

There is a great world of wine out there, but a lot of the "better stuff,"
just does not make it to all markets. This is too bad, as one only can judge
by what they are exposed to.

As for Chilean wines, the ONLY one that I would buy, is one that I encountered
in Shepard's Market (Le Boudin Blanc, Mayfair). I have attended a dozen high-
end Chilean wine dinners, sitting at the right (or left) hand of the
winemakers, or winery owners, only to find the wines insipid and not worth the
$, or £. I usually get "comp'ed" bottles, as most retailers and distributors
in my area know how I feel. I do not have to pay for most of these, but would
not buy most, even on sale. Still, the sommelier in Mayfair changed my mind,
even though the conversation was concerning his nice Bdx. offerings, many of
which were highly allocated in the US.

It all depends on what one is exposed to. Please do not attempt to judge ALL
OZ and US wines, by what you encounter. I will do the same for the Chileans,
and one day hope to find a second, that I would pay any money for.

Hunt

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On 25 Jun 2007 05:21:23 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

>In article >,

>says...
>>
>>I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
>>Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>>
>>YECCCHHH!
>>
>>It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
>>drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>>
>>If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
>>change my views, please let me know.
>>
>>Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
>>Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.

>
>Unfortunately, in the UK, you are limited in you selections of OZ and US
>wines. OTOH, you DO get some great FR, ES and other European wines. Based on
>the OZ offerings, that I have had in the UK, I tend to agree with you. Based
>on what I have encountered from the US, I understand why folk in the UK might
>think that all US wine is dreck!
>

Yes, we are limited if you only shop in supermarkets where most of the
Australian wine these days is made down to a price, but I can easily
source Grange, St Henri, RWT, 707, 389, Wynn's Michael and John
Riddoch all from Tesco.

Majestic can do Torbreck "The Descendant" if you have the cash.
Oddbins have 707 and Dead Arm (and most of Chester's other offerings)

The traditional UK wine merchants aren't at all averse to stocking
good Australian wine either. I've got some 2004 Yarra Yering Dry Red
No1 (Parker 95-100) sitting in storage at a UK wine merchant.
Thankfully bought en primeur before Mr P scored it. It's also possible
to find some interesting Australian boutique wines if you look.

James
James Dempster

You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.
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On Jun 25, 12:31 am, "Potblak" > wrote:

> Ah! Cotes de Beaune!
> A perfect entry level to French Reds.
> I remember it well!


It was Hospice de Beaune. The one waiting now, to warm up a bit, is
Gevrey-Chambertin 2000 Domaine Maume but I will only have a small
glass as I prefer a very dry white wine.

Judith

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On Jun 25, 3:06 am, Dee Dee > wrot

> A local young man who did some landscaping and patio work for us
> recentley whose surname is Beaune says that his ancestors have been
> traced to France. Here in the country, in Virginia, it is pronounced
> "Bow in." (like bow and arrow). :-))


I pronounce it Bone. Woof woof!!

Judith



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For a review of the Mitolo Jester, go
http://www.mitolowines.com.au/wines_...iraz_2005.html

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 24, 7:31 pm, "Potblak" > wrote:
>
>>
>> >> DH just came home with 11 bottles of wine from Gary's in New Jersey.
>> >> 8 were from Spain, 2 from France, 1 from Italy. We used to drink
>> >> Spanish wines in the 70's, so we thought we'd go thru some again. His
>> >> preference is France, then Italian; mine Italian, though we do try
>> >> others.

>>
>> > Dee Dee what were the French wines please? tonight at dinner I had a
>> > Beaune, it was superb and i don't like reds too much!!!

>>
>> Ah! Cotes de Beaune!
>> A perfect entry level to French Reds.
>> I remember it well!
>> - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> One was
> http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10702551
> - we haven't opened.
>
> The other one was one that DH drank, not at home, so I didn't share.
> http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10183452
> He is undecided as to whether he would recommend.
>
> DH likes Gary's
> http://www.wineaccess.com/store/garyswine/
> a little better than
> MacArthur Beverages in Washington, D.C.
>
> Here is one we will try next trip to Gary's, an Australian Shiraz.
> http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...tter_id=124381
>
>
> A local young man who did some landscaping and patio work for us
> recentley whose surname is Beaune says that his ancestors have been
> traced to France. Here in the country, in Virginia, it is pronounced
> "Bow in." (like bow and arrow). :-))
>
> Dee Dee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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The Australian's can produce some fantastic wines, but regretfully their
biggest brands (i.e.: Yellow Tail, among others) tastes horrible. Where as
the better and smaller wineries get buried in the mix. Take a look at Hope
Vineyards. Very good and not expensive.

TS


--
For private messages please reply using PGP Security Key 0x99C221A5.

"miles" > wrote in message
...
> Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> If you "hear what I'm saying," I may not need to add this comment, but
>> my point is simply that it doesn't make much sense to say that you
>> don't like wines from Australia (or anyplace else) if you are not able
>> to identify that a wine is from Australia.

>
> That is simply not true. An Aussie winery can produce a wine that is
> nearly identical in characteristics of a California wine and both are
> horrible swill. It may very well be that it isn't a particular common
> style inherent in most Aussie wines thats at issue. It's trying to find
> one that fits the OP's tastes.
>
> I don't care for most French reds as I prefer up front fruit thats more
> common with California wines. However, there are California reds that
> aren't fruit forward and there are some French reds that are.



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In article >,
says...
>
>On 25 Jun 2007 05:21:23 GMT,
(Hunt) wrote:
>
>>In article >,


>>says...
>>>
>>>I am not a wine snob. I like all kinds of wine: French, Italian,
>>>Spanish, Californian, Bulgarian, Chilean... all except Australian.
>>>
>>>YECCCHHH!
>>>
>>>It always has this rancid, "sweet and sour" taste. OK, it gets you
>>>drunk, provided you can keep it down.
>>>
>>>If anyone out there knows of a really good Ossie wine that might
>>>change my views, please let me know.
>>>
>>>Until then, I'll stick with Chateauneuf du Pape, Spanish Rioja or
>>>Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon.

>>
>>Unfortunately, in the UK, you are limited in you selections of OZ and US
>>wines. OTOH, you DO get some great FR, ES and other European wines. Based on
>>the OZ offerings, that I have had in the UK, I tend to agree with you. Based
>>on what I have encountered from the US, I understand why folk in the UK

might
>>think that all US wine is dreck!
>>

>Yes, we are limited if you only shop in supermarkets where most of the
>Australian wine these days is made down to a price, but I can easily
>source Grange, St Henri, RWT, 707, 389, Wynn's Michael and John
>Riddoch all from Tesco.
>
>Majestic can do Torbreck "The Descendant" if you have the cash.
>Oddbins have 707 and Dead Arm (and most of Chester's other offerings)
>
>The traditional UK wine merchants aren't at all averse to stocking
>good Australian wine either. I've got some 2004 Yarra Yering Dry Red
>No1 (Parker 95-100) sitting in storage at a UK wine merchant.
>Thankfully bought en primeur before Mr P scored it. It's also possible
>to find some interesting Australian boutique wines if you look.
>
>James
>James Dempster
>
>You know you've had a good night
>when you wake up
>and someone's outlining you in chalk.


James, 99% of my exposure to wines (OZ and US) in the UK, has been limited to
restaurants and VinExpo. Now, I do pass by an Odd-Bins, or two, in Mayfair,
but usually am not looking to pick up my wines retail. I'm certain that there
are many great wine shops in London, let alone the rest of the UK. Just for
kicks, I should visit a few, on my next trip.

What I find at UK restaurants, however, is that US wines are most often poorly
represented and are very, very expensive. Pretty much the same for the wines
of OZ. A lot probably has to do with what each sommelier preceives as that
restaurant's market. OTOH, I do find wonderful FR wines, that do not make it
to much of the US, and, if one doesn't get too hung up on "exchange rates,"
and the like, are not bad values.

If one is exposed to JUST the swill of a particular country, and charged
unfairly for it, they will likely decide that THAT country does not produce
good wines.

I have not had any luck finding more than one Chilean wine, that I liked, and
felt that maybe I was falling into the same trap. I do not even accept gifts
of Chilean wines from retailers, or distributors, unless they are at the upper
end, now. Still, only one, that I would actually buy. When someone offers me a
Chilean under, say US$50, I respectfully decline, and opt for something that I
feel certain, that I will like. I would imagine that this happens alot in the
UK, if all one tries are Robert Mondavi Coastal, or many of the lower-end OZ
wines - they assume that that is all there is and stay with FR, or IT. Can't
say that I blame them.

No, next trip, I'll make sure to do a tour of the better wine retailers, just
to educate myself.

Thanks for the comment,
Hunt

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On Jun 25, 6:21 am, (Hunt) wrote:
>
> It all depends on what one is exposed to. Please do not attempt to judge ALL
> OZ and US wines, by what you encounter. I will do the same for the Chileans,
> and one day hope to find a second, that I would pay any money for.
>


When you do, would you be kind enough to post on it?

Judith


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