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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Retard wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:34:05 GMT, usual suspect > wrote: > > >>Retard wrote: >> >>>explain how "learning from your own mistakes" >>>changed your tastes for certain foods. >> >>Strawman. > > > You've claimed that your change in stance was > because you learned something from your mistakes, Correct. > yet part of this change seems Seems? Is that the best you can do, fatso? > to have altered your > taste for certain foods as well, Which foods would those be, Nash? I'd already noted in afv, aaev, and tpa that I'd probably consume fish again. Other than the fish I ate last week, my diet is virtually unchanged. I consume dairy only when my girlfriend cooks something with it (non-fat yogurt or skim milk), and I've had processed foods (e.g., fake Italian sausage) with egg whites maybe three times in the last year. > so it's clear you're The only thing that's clear is you cannot get past shit-stirring. |
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:51:51 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:
>Reynard wrote: >> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:34:05 GMT, usual suspect > wrote: >>>Reynard wrote: >>> >>>>explain how "learning from your own mistakes" >>>>changed your tastes for certain foods. >>> >>>Strawman. >> >> You've claimed that your change in stance was >> because you learned something from your mistakes, > >Correct. > >> yet part of this change seems > >Seems? Is that the best you can do, fatso? I wrote 'seems' because I don't believe one's taste in foods can change by learning something from one's mistakes. >> to have altered your >> taste for certain foods as well, > >Which foods would those be The foods I mentioned which are in your quotes that you keep snipping away. In these quotes below you state that you dislike flesh, so how does learning from your mistakes suddenly change your tastes for food items? You also state that you believe the consumption of meat, dairy and eggs are bad for you, animals, your environment, and the whole World, but you sing a different tune now you've become a meat pusher, so how did learning from mistakes do that? <restore> "I dislike flesh, though my reasons for being vegan are overwhelmingly health-oriented: I want to live a long, healthy life, and I think the consumption of meat, dairy, and eggs is bad for me, animals, my environment, and the whole world. Is that first part selfish? Perhaps to some people. Do the other, more selfless consequences of my diet (no animal must die for my nourishment or enjoyment, less pollution and less harm to the environment, etc.) mitigate the selfish notion of wanting to live long and without serious health problems associated with an animal-based diet?" usual suspect Date: 2002-09-09 and "Veganism costs less regardless of socio-economic environs. Indeed, lesser well-off people are far more likely to subsist on vegetarian diets; meat and dairy are a product of 'advanced' society. It costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables, legumes; indeed, you must first raise the latter to fatten the former. Skip the former entirely and you have much more of the latter to feed the world." usual suspect Date: 2002-12-26 Those quotes belie your current pusher's position, and no amount of regret will ever undo the hypocrisy of it. The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it. Omar Khayyam |
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"Reynard" > wrote
> > The Moving Finger writes; Yawn, same old tactics eh Derek? Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar or a hypocrite. |
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On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote:
>"Reynard" > wrote >> >> The Moving Finger writes; > >Yawn, same old tactics eh Derek? > >Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >or a hypocrite. In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? He also states that he believes the consumption of meat, dairy and eggs are bad for him, animals, his environment, and the whole World, but he sings a different tune now he's become a meat pusher, so how did learning from his mistakes do that? <restore> "I dislike flesh, though my reasons for being vegan are overwhelmingly health-oriented: I want to live a long, healthy life, and I think the consumption of meat, dairy, and eggs is bad for me, animals, my environment, and the whole world. Is that first part selfish? Perhaps to some people. Do the other, more selfless consequences of my diet (no animal must die for my nourishment or enjoyment, less pollution and less harm to the environment, etc.) mitigate the selfish notion of wanting to live long and without serious health problems associated with an animal-based diet?" usual suspect Date: 2002-09-09 and "Veganism costs less regardless of socio-economic environs. Indeed, lesser well-off people are far more likely to subsist on vegetarian diets; meat and dairy are a product of 'advanced' society. It costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables, legumes; indeed, you must first raise the latter to fatten the former. Skip the former entirely and you have much more of the latter to feed the world." usual suspect Date: 2002-12-26 Those quotes belie his current pusher's position, and no amount of regret will ever undo the hypocrisy of it. The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it. Omar Khayyam |
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![]() "Derek" > wrote > On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: >>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>or a hypocrite. > > In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, > so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he > claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. Once he starting examining veganism objectively those statements no longer rang true, so he discarded them. When you speak from your own mind you say different things than when you are acting as a mouthpiece. > He also states that he believes the consumption of > meat, dairy and eggs are bad for him, animals, his > environment, and the whole World, but he sings a > different tune now he's become a meat pusher, so > how did learning from his mistakes do that? See above.. |
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On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:04:24 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote >> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > >>>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>>or a hypocrite. >> >> In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, >> so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he >> claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? > >Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. Are you asserting that he lied about his tastes in foods when pretending to be a vegan, or, like you, was he intentionally deluding himself during that time? He clearly stated he dislikes flesh, yet now he eats it. How does learning from one's mistakes, as he claims to have done, 1) change his tastes for certain foods? 2) change his perception that it was bad for him? 3) change his perception that it was bad for animals? 4) change his perception that it was bad for his environment? 5) change his perception that it was bad for the World? 6) change his perception that veganism costs less, regardless of socio-economic environs? 7) change his perception that it costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables and legumes? Look at his quotes you snipped away and explain how "learning from his mistakes" changed every position his once held, including his dislike for flesh. <restore> "I dislike flesh, though my reasons for being vegan are overwhelmingly health-oriented: I want to live a long, healthy life, and I think the consumption of meat, dairy, and eggs is bad for me, animals, my environment, and the whole world. Is that first part selfish? Perhaps to some people. Do the other, more selfless consequences of my diet (no animal must die for my nourishment or enjoyment, less pollution and less harm to the environment, etc.) mitigate the selfish notion of wanting to live long and without serious health problems associated with an animal-based diet?" usual suspect Date: 2002-09-09 and "Veganism costs less regardless of socio-economic environs. Indeed, lesser well-off people are far more likely to subsist on vegetarian diets; meat and dairy are a product of 'advanced' society. It costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables, legumes; indeed, you must first raise the latter to fatten the former. Skip the former entirely and you have much more of the latter to feed the world." usual suspect Date: 2002-12-26 And that's just a start. Since being beaten into submission by Jonathan, he not only changed his stance on veganism and all that went with it, but his interpretation of God's word as well. In response to a comment from "Bart" on whether our dominion over animals meant that we should eat them, 'usual suspect' quoted Genesis 1:29-30 as THE ANSWER to that question. [start - Bart to usual suspect] Bart said: > So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion > over the animal kingdom. Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them? The answer is found immediately following one of the verses you quoted: Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. [end] usual suspect 11 Jun 2002 http://tinyurl.com/4jtz8 From that, 'usual suspect' clearly believed our dominion over animals never meant that we should eat them, but he sings a different tune these days. How did learning by his mistakes change his belief in God's word and the bible? He's also on record as stating; "I also favor humane treatment, which to me means not killing them simply for my own benefit." usual suspect 2002-10-09 But now, since his mesalliance with meat pushers, his view on what he considers humane treatment has changed completely; "THE METHOD OF BURNING THE BIRDS IS *NOT* BARBARIC." usual suspect 2004-02-12 and "A little kindness? They're made for deep-frying." 'usual suspect' 25 July 2003 15:23 The list is endless. In fact I doubt that there's a single position that he hasn't contradicted since his new position as a meat pusher. "I am vegan" usual suspect 2002-05-09 "First, don't EVER call me "a vegan" or even just "vegan." usual suspect 2003-06-10 "No thanks, I'm a vegan." usual suspect 2003-08-14 "You'll find my views have been consistent." usual suspect 2003-09-05 What a joke! And then there's YOUR quotes which show the stark inconsistencies of YOUR stance on the proposition of animal rights over the years to consider as well; "I am an animal rights believer." Dutch Date: 2001-02-12 "My contention is that 'animal rights' have sprouted like branches from the tree of "HUMAN RIGHTS". They are derivative. They reflect from a) what our own rights are b) to what degree and how we value the animal or species." Dutch Date: 2001-02-23 "I recently signed a petition online supporting an 'animal rights' bill in Canadian parliament." Dutch. Date: 2003-09-18 [start ipse dixit] > You've stated now that you believe animals do > in fact hold rights against us and thus must be > treated humanely. [Dutch] Correct [end] Dutch 2004-04-13 "Rights for animals exist because human rights exist. If human rights did not exist, rights for animals would not exist." Dutch Sun, 18 Apr 2004 "Animals are moral agents." Dutch 2001-02-22 From those quotes there's no doubt that you believed animals held certain rights against us, yet your other quote (below) implies you don't believe animals hold rights at all, and that a World of animals holding rights is a laugh. "They have no rights because the very idea of a world of animals with rights is a laugh." Dutch Date: 2001-08-07 Both of you are all over the place, but when the evidence of your quotes are shown to prove it you merely snip them away in embarrassment. What a way to carry on. Why do they even bother? |
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![]() "Derek" > wrote > On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:04:24 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > >"Derek" > wrote > >> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > > > >>>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar > >>>or a hypocrite. > >> > >> In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, > >> so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he > >> claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? > > > >Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. > > Are you asserting that he lied about his tastes in foods No, he believed what he was saying, and since it was a statement of taste, it was completely true, at that time. |
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Claire's Obese Uncle Dreck wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:04:24 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > >>Claire's Obese Uncle > wrote >> >>>On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: >> >>>>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>>>or a hypocrite. >>> >>>In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, >>>so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he >>>claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? >> >>Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. > > > Are you asserting that he lied about his tastes in foods > when pretending to be a vegan, or, like you, was he > intentionally deluding himself during that time? Strawman. My tastes haven't changed. |
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Claire's Obese Uncle Dreck wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:04:24 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > >>Claire's Obese Uncle > wrote >> >>>On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: >> >>>>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>>>or a hypocrite. >>> >>>In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, >>>so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he >>>claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? >> >>Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. > > > Are you asserting that he lied about his tastes in foods > when pretending to be a vegan, or, like you, was he > intentionally deluding himself during that time? Strawman. My tastes haven't changed. |
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![]() "Derek" > wrote > On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:04:24 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > >"Derek" > wrote > >> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > > > >>>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar > >>>or a hypocrite. > >> > >> In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, > >> so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he > >> claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? > > > >Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. > > Are you asserting that he lied about his tastes in foods No, he believed what he was saying, and since it was a statement of taste, it was completely true, at that time. |
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On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:04:24 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote >> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > >>>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>>or a hypocrite. >> >> In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, >> so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he >> claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? > >Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. Are you asserting that he lied about his tastes in foods when pretending to be a vegan, or, like you, was he intentionally deluding himself during that time? He clearly stated he dislikes flesh, yet now he eats it. How does learning from one's mistakes, as he claims to have done, 1) change his tastes for certain foods? 2) change his perception that it was bad for him? 3) change his perception that it was bad for animals? 4) change his perception that it was bad for his environment? 5) change his perception that it was bad for the World? 6) change his perception that veganism costs less, regardless of socio-economic environs? 7) change his perception that it costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables and legumes? Look at his quotes you snipped away and explain how "learning from his mistakes" changed every position his once held, including his dislike for flesh. <restore> "I dislike flesh, though my reasons for being vegan are overwhelmingly health-oriented: I want to live a long, healthy life, and I think the consumption of meat, dairy, and eggs is bad for me, animals, my environment, and the whole world. Is that first part selfish? Perhaps to some people. Do the other, more selfless consequences of my diet (no animal must die for my nourishment or enjoyment, less pollution and less harm to the environment, etc.) mitigate the selfish notion of wanting to live long and without serious health problems associated with an animal-based diet?" usual suspect Date: 2002-09-09 and "Veganism costs less regardless of socio-economic environs. Indeed, lesser well-off people are far more likely to subsist on vegetarian diets; meat and dairy are a product of 'advanced' society. It costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables, legumes; indeed, you must first raise the latter to fatten the former. Skip the former entirely and you have much more of the latter to feed the world." usual suspect Date: 2002-12-26 And that's just a start. Since being beaten into submission by Jonathan, he not only changed his stance on veganism and all that went with it, but his interpretation of God's word as well. In response to a comment from "Bart" on whether our dominion over animals meant that we should eat them, 'usual suspect' quoted Genesis 1:29-30 as THE ANSWER to that question. [start - Bart to usual suspect] Bart said: > So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion > over the animal kingdom. Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them? The answer is found immediately following one of the verses you quoted: Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. [end] usual suspect 11 Jun 2002 http://tinyurl.com/4jtz8 From that, 'usual suspect' clearly believed our dominion over animals never meant that we should eat them, but he sings a different tune these days. How did learning by his mistakes change his belief in God's word and the bible? He's also on record as stating; "I also favor humane treatment, which to me means not killing them simply for my own benefit." usual suspect 2002-10-09 But now, since his mesalliance with meat pushers, his view on what he considers humane treatment has changed completely; "THE METHOD OF BURNING THE BIRDS IS *NOT* BARBARIC." usual suspect 2004-02-12 and "A little kindness? They're made for deep-frying." 'usual suspect' 25 July 2003 15:23 The list is endless. In fact I doubt that there's a single position that he hasn't contradicted since his new position as a meat pusher. "I am vegan" usual suspect 2002-05-09 "First, don't EVER call me "a vegan" or even just "vegan." usual suspect 2003-06-10 "No thanks, I'm a vegan." usual suspect 2003-08-14 "You'll find my views have been consistent." usual suspect 2003-09-05 What a joke! And then there's YOUR quotes which show the stark inconsistencies of YOUR stance on the proposition of animal rights over the years to consider as well; "I am an animal rights believer." Dutch Date: 2001-02-12 "My contention is that 'animal rights' have sprouted like branches from the tree of "HUMAN RIGHTS". They are derivative. They reflect from a) what our own rights are b) to what degree and how we value the animal or species." Dutch Date: 2001-02-23 "I recently signed a petition online supporting an 'animal rights' bill in Canadian parliament." Dutch. Date: 2003-09-18 [start ipse dixit] > You've stated now that you believe animals do > in fact hold rights against us and thus must be > treated humanely. [Dutch] Correct [end] Dutch 2004-04-13 "Rights for animals exist because human rights exist. If human rights did not exist, rights for animals would not exist." Dutch Sun, 18 Apr 2004 "Animals are moral agents." Dutch 2001-02-22 From those quotes there's no doubt that you believed animals held certain rights against us, yet your other quote (below) implies you don't believe animals hold rights at all, and that a World of animals holding rights is a laugh. "They have no rights because the very idea of a world of animals with rights is a laugh." Dutch Date: 2001-08-07 Both of you are all over the place, but when the evidence of your quotes are shown to prove it you merely snip them away in embarrassment. What a way to carry on. Why do they even bother? |
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Claire's Stupid Uncle Dreck wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: > > >>"Retard" > wrote >> >>>The Moving Finger writes; >> >>Yawn, same old tactics eh Derek? >> >>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>or a hypocrite. > > In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, > so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he > claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? Strawman. When did my tastes ever change? I ate two servings of spicy tuna. Other than that, my diet is unchanged for the same reasons given in the past, you fat ****. |
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![]() "Derek" > wrote > On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote: >>Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >>or a hypocrite. > > In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, > so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he > claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? Quite easily, he was parroting things that vegans typically say. Once he starting examining veganism objectively those statements no longer rang true, so he discarded them. When you speak from your own mind you say different things than when you are acting as a mouthpiece. > He also states that he believes the consumption of > meat, dairy and eggs are bad for him, animals, his > environment, and the whole World, but he sings a > different tune now he's become a meat pusher, so > how did learning from his mistakes do that? See above.. |
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On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:33:38 -0800, "Dutch" > wrote:
>"Reynard" > wrote >> >> The Moving Finger writes; > >Yawn, same old tactics eh Derek? > >Nobody believes that changing one's position on something makes you a liar >or a hypocrite. In his quotes below he states that he dislikes flesh, so how does learning from one's mistakes, as he claims, suddenly change his tastes for food items? He also states that he believes the consumption of meat, dairy and eggs are bad for him, animals, his environment, and the whole World, but he sings a different tune now he's become a meat pusher, so how did learning from his mistakes do that? <restore> "I dislike flesh, though my reasons for being vegan are overwhelmingly health-oriented: I want to live a long, healthy life, and I think the consumption of meat, dairy, and eggs is bad for me, animals, my environment, and the whole world. Is that first part selfish? Perhaps to some people. Do the other, more selfless consequences of my diet (no animal must die for my nourishment or enjoyment, less pollution and less harm to the environment, etc.) mitigate the selfish notion of wanting to live long and without serious health problems associated with an animal-based diet?" usual suspect Date: 2002-09-09 and "Veganism costs less regardless of socio-economic environs. Indeed, lesser well-off people are far more likely to subsist on vegetarian diets; meat and dairy are a product of 'advanced' society. It costs more to produce dairy, beef, poultry, pork than grains, vegetables, legumes; indeed, you must first raise the latter to fatten the former. Skip the former entirely and you have much more of the latter to feed the world." usual suspect Date: 2002-12-26 Those quotes belie his current pusher's position, and no amount of regret will ever undo the hypocrisy of it. The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it. Omar Khayyam |
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Retard wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:51:51 GMT, usual suspect > wrote: > >>Retard wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:34:05 GMT, usual suspect > wrote: >>> >>>>Retard wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>explain how "learning from your own mistakes" >>>>>changed your tastes for certain foods. >>>> >>>>Strawman. >>> >>>You've claimed that your change in stance was >>>because you learned something from your mistakes, >> >>Correct. >> >> >>>yet part of this change seems >> >>Seems? Is that the best you can do, fatso? > > I wrote 'seems' because I don't believe one's taste in > foods can change Strawman. You're the only one suggesting that my tastes have changed. >>>to have altered your >>>taste for certain foods as well, >> >>Which foods would those be > > The foods I mentioned which are in your quotes > that you keep snipping away. Other than consuming a couple servings of sashimi two weeks ago, how has my diet changed, fatso? <snip strawman and assorted shit-stirring> |
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Retard wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:51:51 GMT, usual suspect > wrote: > >>Retard wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:34:05 GMT, usual suspect > wrote: >>> >>>>Retard wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>explain how "learning from your own mistakes" >>>>>changed your tastes for certain foods. >>>> >>>>Strawman. >>> >>>You've claimed that your change in stance was >>>because you learned something from your mistakes, >> >>Correct. >> >> >>>yet part of this change seems >> >>Seems? Is that the best you can do, fatso? > > I wrote 'seems' because I don't believe one's taste in > foods can change Strawman. You're the only one suggesting that my tastes have changed. >>>to have altered your >>>taste for certain foods as well, >> >>Which foods would those be > > The foods I mentioned which are in your quotes > that you keep snipping away. Other than consuming a couple servings of sashimi two weeks ago, how has my diet changed, fatso? <snip strawman and assorted shit-stirring> |
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