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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
to brain shrinkage.

According to researchers, vegans and vegetarians are the most likely
to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are meat,
particularly liver, milk and fish.

Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause anaemia and inflammation of the
nervous system.

Yeast extracts are one of the few vegetarian foods which provide good
levels of the vitamin, reports Courier Mail.

The finding was made by Oxford University scientists who used memory
tests, physical checks and brain scans to examine 107 people between
the ages of 61 and 87.

When the volunteers were retested five years later the medics found
those with the lowest levels of vitamin B12 were also the most likely
to have brain shrinkage.

It confirms earlier research showing a link between brain atrophy and
low levels of B12.

Also, in a new study it was found that drinking too much alcohol can
lead to brain shrinkage.

Brain scans of more than 1,800 people found that people who downed 14
drinks or more a week had 1.6 per cent more brain shrinkage than
teetotallers.

Women in their seventies were the most at risk.

http://www.medindia.net/news/Study-S...ge-41809-1.htm
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

"Dragonblaze" > wrote in message ...

> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
> to brain shrinkage.


No they haven't.

'Commenting on the findings, Vogiatzoglou said:

"Many factors that affect brain health are thought to be out of our control,
but this study suggests that simply adjusting our diets to consume more
vitamin B12 through eating meat, fish, fortified cereals or milk may be
something we can easily adjust to prevent brain shrinkage and so perhaps
save our memory."
...
Vitamin B12 deficiency is a recognized public health problem, particularly
among older people, so increasing B12 intake could help to reduce the
problem.
...
Read the abstract: http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/71/11/826

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/120899.php

> According to researchers, vegans and vegetarians are the most likely


Where do the researchers say this? Show us an actual quote.

> to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are meat,
> particularly liver, milk and fish.


'Are You Vitamin B12 Deficient?

Nearly two-fifths of the U.S. population may be flirting with marginal
vitamin B12 status - that is, if a careful look at nearly 3,000 men and
women in the ongoing Framingham (Massachusetts) Offspring Study
is any indication. Researchers found that 39 percent of the volunteers
have plasma B12 levels in the "low normal" range - below 258
picomoles per liter (pmol/L).
...
The researchers found no association between plasma B12 and meat,
poultry, and fish intake, even though these foods supply the bulk of B12
in the diet. "It's not because people aren't eating enough meat," Tucker
says. "The vitamin isn't getting absorbed."

The vitamin is tightly bound to proteins in meat and dairy products and
requires high acidity to cut it loose. As we age, we lose the acid-secreting
cells in the stomach.
...'
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archiv...0/vita0800.htm

'Shrinkage is usually associated with the development of dementia.
...
- 1 in 3 people over 65 will die with dementia.

- 700,000 people in the UK have a form of dementia, more than half have
Alzheimer's disease. In less than 20 years nearly a million people will be
living with dementia. This will soar to 1.7 million people by 2051.
...'
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/120797.php

Are these "1 in 3 people" veg*n?

'Studies have shown that risk for AD is greater in people who consume
diets high in cholesterol, saturated fats, and total calories and low in fiber,
vegetables, and fruits.3,4,5 Such diets seem to play a role in the formation
of beta-amyloid plaques and in causing oxidative damage to neurons.6,7,
8,9 This is also supported by data demonstrating a decreased risk of AD
with use of lipid-lowering medications10,11 and by preliminary findings
in one study, which showed an increased incidence in dementia in heavy
meat eaters compared with vegetarians.12
...'
http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/diet_alzheimers.html


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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:18 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:

>"Dragonblaze" > wrote in message ...
>
>> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
>> to brain shrinkage.

>
>No they haven't.


You have in the past explained how you think non-existent
frogs survive the draining of rice fields, etc. Think about that...
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Dragonblaze wrote:
> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
> to brain shrinkage.


That is a lie.

Q.Where in the ORIGINAL study does it come to that conclusion?

snipped BS.
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
>>> to brain shrinkage.

>>
>> That is a lie.
>>
>> Q.Where in the ORIGINAL study does it come to that conclusion?

>

snipped BS (again)
>
> Conclusion: Low vitamin B12 status should be further investigated as a
> modifiable cause of brain atrophy and of likely subsequent cognitive
> impairment in the elderly.
>
>
> It isn't being vegetarian per se;


Well done, go to top of the class, now FOAD.

>it's being deficient in B12, something
> vegetarians *commonly* are unless they take supplements.


The study, bum-breath, was about the elderly, the elderly are *commonly*
deficient of B12, if they eat meat or not.

There was NO evidence of a link between vegetarian and brain waisting, NONE.



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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
>>>>> to brain shrinkage.
>>>>
>>>> That is a lie.
>>>>
>>>> Q.Where in the ORIGINAL study does it come to that conclusion?
>>>

>> snipped BS (again)
>>>
>>> Conclusion: Low vitamin B12 status should be further investigated as
>>> a modifiable cause of brain atrophy and of likely subsequent
>>> cognitive impairment in the elderly.
>>>
>>>
>>> It isn't being vegetarian per se;

>>
>> Well done, go to top of the class, now FOAD.

>
> YOU **** off and die, 2nd Jizzstain of Chris or Marks de Shitbag or
> whatever sucky nym of yours I've forgotten.
>
>
>>> it's being deficient in B12, something vegetarians *commonly* are
>>> unless they take supplements.

>>
>> The study, bum-breath, was about the elderly, the elderly are
>> *commonly* deficient of B12, if they eat meat or not.

>
> Prove it, jizzstain.


You can look as well as I can; lazy boy.

Here's a few:

(1) Vitamin B-12 deficiency in the elderly: current dilemmas

SP Stabler, J Lindenbaum and RH Allen
Department of Medicine, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center,
Denver 80220, USA.

Vitamin B-12 deficiency is present in up to 15% of the elderly
population as documented by elevated methylmalonic acid with or without
elevated total homocysteine concentrations in combination with low or
low-normal vitamin B-12 concentrations.

(2) Metabolic evidence that deficiencies of vitamin B-12 (cobalamin),
folate, and vitamin B-6 occur commonly in elderly people [published
erratum appears in Am J Clin Nutr 1994 Jul;60(1):147]

E Joosten, A van den Berg, R Riezler, HJ Naurath, J Lindenbaum, SP
Stabler and RH Allen
Department of Internal Medicine, University Hospitals KU Leuven, Belgium.

Measurements of the serum concentrations of the metabolites
homocysteine, cystathionine, methylmalonic acid, and 2-methylcitric
acid, which accumulates when vitamin B-12-, folate-, and vitamin B-6-
dependent enzymatic reactions are impaired, should provide a better
indication of intracellular deficiency of these vitamins.

(3) Prevalence of cobalamin deficiency in the Framingham elderly population

J Lindenbaum, IH Rosenberg, PW Wilson, SP Stabler and RH Allen
Department of Medicine, Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center, New York,
NY 10032.

The prevalence of cobalamin deficiency was > or = 12% in a large sample
of free-living elderly Americans. Many elderly people with "normal"
serum vitamin concentrations are metabolically deficient in cobalamin or
folate.
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Sep 16, 6:03*am, Dragonblaze > wrote:
> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
> to brain shrinkage.


http://www.euroveg.eu/lang/en/news/m...iswanathan.php
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Sep 16, 6:03*am, Dragonblaze > wrote:
> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
> to brain shrinkage.


http://www.naturalnews.com/News_0002...getarians.html
--- [ begin quote] ---
Health Ranger comment: Sometimes the media is so downright stupid, you
gotta wonder if their writers are on crack. This article from
IndiaTimes quotes research about vitamin B12 deficiency to claim that
vegetarians and vegans suffer from "brain shrinkage." Nobody told
them, I guess, that Vitamin B12 is made by bacteria! You can get all
the B12 you need from non-animal sources. It's a no-brainer (ahem!).
But I guess for the journalists who eat a diet of dead meat, processed
cheese and homogenized milk, their brains aren't functioning well
enough to be able to handle a little nutritional logic in the first
place... In the war between the smarts of vegans vs. the smarts of
steak eaters, there's simply no competition...
--- [ end quote ] ---
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 Goo wrote:

>dh pointed out:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:18 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Dragonblaze" > wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
>>>> to brain shrinkage.
>>> No they haven't.

>>
>> You have in the past explained how you think non-existent
>> frogs survive the draining of rice fields, etc. Think about that...

>
>You have in the past blabbered that non-existent animals can be "denied"
>something;


"EVEN WITH the very best animal welfare conditions one
might provide: they STILL might not be as good as the
"pre-existence" state was" - Goo

>how they can experience "unfairness";


"When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the
existence we know, we don't know if that move improves
its welfare." - Goo

>how they can experience "loss"


"Unless we know with certainty that the entity's welfare
improves when it moves from "pre-existence" into the
life we can detect, we cannot conclude that life is a
benefit to it." - Goo

>and "deprivation".


"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them: it does
not make them better off than before" - Goo

>Those are your true thoughts, not "mistakes".


In contrast to that lie: When I made mistakes like that
they were mistakes, but you do OBVIOUSLY believe that
something to do with every being's pre-existence prevents
it from benefitting from life.

"The only way that the concept "benefit from existence"
can begin to make sense semantically is if one assumes
a pre-existent state" - Goo

"coming into existence didn't make me better off than
I was" - Goo

>Think about that


You provide nothing to think about Goob, almost certainly
because of your brain shrinkage. You claim that our own
pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
existence, yet you have absolutely no clue how you think
it manages to do so. It's an extremely stupid idea that you
are clueless to explain, yet you have complete and total
faith in the apparently very stupid concept. I again challenge
you to try to explain the incredibly stupid concept. GO:

(And I again correctly predict the Goober is far too inept
to even make an attempt to explain himself, because we
know from much past experience that he IS too inept.)
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

<dh@.> wrote
> You claim that our own
> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
> existence


That's not even remotely close to a reasonable interpretation of his claim.

The claim is this.. We can assume that either there is a "pre-existent
state" or that there is not, most probably the latter.

If there is no such thing, then coming into existence, while it might be "a
good thing", which I believe is actually your claim, it cannot be a
"benefit" because the meaning of the word benefit implies an improvement to
an existing state.

If there is such a thing as a "pre-existent state", it is of unknown
quality, therefore existence as we know it cannot be concluded to be an
improvement over it and thus a benefit.

Referring to what you said above, in order for something to be called a
benefit you must know the quality of both before and after states. If I said
a man became a millionaire, is that a benefit? Not if he was a billionaire
before and lost most of his fortune.






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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Rudy Canoza wrote:


> You do know that you're wasting time, right? Either:
>
> a) Goo****wit knows all this stuff, and is just engaged in a years-long
> troll
>
> b) Goo****wit is incapable of knowing it
>
>
> There is no third or higher alternative; i.e., it is not possible that
> Goo****wit doesn't yet know the truth of what you just said, but is
> capable of learning it.


I know its 'casting pearls before swine', but its never a complete waste
to confront ignorance and stupidity.
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:59:44 -0700, "Dutch" > wrote:

><dh@.> wrote
>> You claim that our own
>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>> existence

>
>That's not even remotely close to a reasonable interpretation of his claim.


Do you really want people to believe you hadn't noticed
that your own argument is completely dependant on considering
the possibility that something to do with pre-existence is preventing
us from benefitting from our existence now? I seriously doubt you'll
find someone who believes you really are that stupid, considering
the fact that pre-existence is ALWAYS the MOST significant
part of your supposed argument.

>The claim is this.. We can assume that either there is a "pre-existent
>state" or that there is not,


Regardless of which all evidence suggests that many beings
benefit from lives of positive mavlue

>most probably the latter.


It makes no difference either way since all evidence suggest
many beings benefit from lives of positive value. That fact is
very very significant, yet appears to be something else that's
beyond your ability to comprehend.

>If there is no such thing, then coming into existence, while it might be "a
>good thing", which I believe is actually your claim, it cannot be a
>"benefit" because the meaning of the word benefit implies an improvement to
>an existing state.


A benefit is a benefit, which a life of positive value certainly
appears to be REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a state
of pre-existence and REGARDLESS of anything else to do with
pre-existence.

>If there is such a thing as a "pre-existent state", it is of unknown
>quality, therefore existence as we know it cannot be concluded to be an
>improvement over it and thus a benefit.


All evidence suggests that many beings benefit from lives of
positive value REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a state
of pre-existence and REGARDLESS of anything else to do with
pre-existence.

>Referring to what you said above, in order for something to be called a
>benefit you must know the quality of both before and after states.


All evidence suggests that many beings benefit from lives of
positive value REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a state
of pre-existence and REGARDLESS of anything else to do with
pre-existence.

>If I said
>a man became a millionaire, is that a benefit? Not if he was a billionaire
>before and lost most of his fortune.


He would still benefit from the millions in the ways he benefitted
from the millions regardless of how much or little he benefitted from
other things. You can't say you don't benefit from a rice cake simply
because you benefitted more from a big bowl of tofu and a steaming
pile of beets, or whatever you kooks eat. You also can't say how
anything to do with pre-existence--or anything AT ALL for that matter--
is preventing billions of beings from benefitting from lives of positive
value. We know you wish very very badly that you could, and we
know WHY you wish you could, LOL, but you can't...you can't even
pretend to try in fact. I challenge you to try. Go:

(Correct prediction: He can't even make an attempt.)
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Goo lied extremely blatantly:

>dh pointed out AGAIN:
>
>> You claim that our own
>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>> existence,

>
>No, I do not claim that, nor have I said anything that any rational
>person might innocently misapprehend to mean that.


You certainly do here Goo:

"Life is not a gain because there *was* no person to
experience the gain" - Goo

and you most certainly do it with animals here Goo:

"Before being alive, an animal has no well-being to promote.
THEREFORE, ****wit, existence is not benefit to farm animals."
- Goo

and you do it with all entities here Goo:

"Prior to existing, there was no entity, and thus no welfare"
- Goo

and you certainly do it for your own stupid ass in particular
here, Goob:

"coming into existence didn't make me better off than
I was before." - the Goober

Here before us we have 4 examples of you insisting that
something to do with pre-existence is preventing us all
from benefitting from our existence. That much is clear
and obvious Goo. But what you CAN NOT do Goober,
is to explain HOW you think anything to do with
pre-existence prevents us from benefitting. As we can
clearly see you claim that it does, and as we can also
very clearly see you're incapable of even trying to
explain HOW! If you think you can, then try. Go:

(Correct prediction: the Goober can't even make
an attempt, nor can he provide any example(s) of
him having ever made the attempt much less
succeeded.)
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 Goo lied:

>dh pointed out:
>
>> It makes no difference either way

>
>It makes a *HUGE* difference


Try explaining how Goober, or once again be SHOWN to have
no clue what you think you're trying to talk about.

(correct prediction: Goo can't try and AGAIN willl show that he
has no clue what he thinks he's trying to talk about.)
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:03:46 -0700, "Dutch" > wrote:

>
><dh@.> wrote in message ...
>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:59:44 -0700, "Dutch" > wrote:
>>
>>><dh@.> wrote
>>>> You claim that our own
>>>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>>>> existence
>>>
>>>That's not even remotely close to a reasonable interpretation of his
>>>claim.

>>
>> Do you really want people to believe you hadn't noticed
>> that your own argument is completely dependant on considering
>> the possibility that something to do with pre-existence is preventing
>> us from benefitting from our existence now?

>
>Our argument has nothing to do with pre-existence


Then I challenge you to try arguing against the fact that many
beings benefit from lives of positive value without referring to
pre-existence. GO:
.. . .
>>>The claim is this.. We can assume that either there is a "pre-existent
>>>state" or that there is not,

>>
>> Regardless of which all evidence suggests that many beings
>> benefit from lives of positive mavlue

>
>That means it's *better_than* "lives of negative value"


No it does not. What a pathetically blatant lie! You referred specifically
to pre-existence, and I pointed out specifically how meaningless that was.
.. . .
>>>most probably the latter.

>>
>> It makes no difference either way since all evidence suggest
>> many beings benefit from lives of positive value. That fact is
>> very very significant, yet appears to be something else that's
>> beyond your ability to comprehend.

>
>I comprehend that a life of positive value is much better than a life of
>negative value


Now try using that to explain what you think prevents beings from
benefitting from lives of positive value. Go:

(Correct prediction: the stupid Goober can't do it.)

>*for a being that exists*. That is completely different than
>saying that life (regrardless of value)


No one has said that afawk, and if you accuse me of saying it
then that's just another EXTREMELY blatant lie from you, Goo,
and of course another one you can't even attempt to back up.

.. . .
>> You can't say you don't benefit from a rice cake simply
>> because you benefitted more from a big bowl of tofu and a steaming
>> pile of beets, or whatever you kooks eat.

>
>I didn't say that you benefit or don't benefit from *having* anything


Then again you were being dishonest by changing the
subject to something completely different while pretending
it was similar which it's not, so there's no point in going on
with that fantasy. That's often the case with you like when
you try to insist that raising children for sex slaves should be
thought of in the same way as raising livestock for food.


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Default Goo proves too stupid for HIS OWN "argument"...LOL!!!

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 the Goober lied:

>On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 dh@. again pointed out AGAIN:
>
>>On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Goo lied extremely blatantly:
>>
>>>dh pointed out AGAIN:
>>>
>>>> You claim that our own
>>>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>>>> existence,
>>>
>>>No, I do not claim that, nor have I said anything that any rational
>>>person might innocently misapprehend to mean that.

>>
>> You certainly do here Goo:
>>
>>"Life is not a gain because there *was* no person to
>>experience the gain" - Goo
>>
>>and you most certainly do it with animals here Goo:
>>
>>"Before being alive, an animal has no well-being to promote.
>>THEREFORE, ****wit, existence is not benefit to farm animals."
>> - Goo
>>
>>and you do it with all entities here Goo:
>>
>>"Prior to existing, there was no entity, and thus no welfare"
>>- Goo
>>
>>and you certainly do it for your own stupid ass in particular
>>here, Goob:
>>
>>"coming into existence didn't make me better off than
>>I was before." - the Goober
>>
>>Here before us we have 4 examples of you insisting that
>>something to do with pre-existence is preventing us all
>>from benefitting from our existence. That much is clear
>>and obvious Goo.

>
>No


LOL! By saying that, Goober, you prove yourself to be
too stupid for YOUR OWN "argument"...LOL!!!

>>But what you CAN NOT do Goober,
>>is to explain HOW you think anything to do with
>>pre-existence prevents us from benefitting. As we can
>>clearly see you claim that it does, and as we can also
>>very clearly see you're incapable of even trying to
>>explain HOW! If you think you can, then try. Go:
>>
>>(Correct prediction: the Goober can't even make
>>an attempt, nor can he provide any example(s) of
>>him having ever made the attempt much less
>>succeeded.)


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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage


<dh@.> wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:59:44 -0700, "Dutch" > wrote:
>
>><dh@.> wrote
>>> You claim that our own
>>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>>> existence

>>
>>That's not even remotely close to a reasonable interpretation of his
>>claim.

>
> Do you really want people to believe you hadn't noticed
> that your own argument is completely dependant on considering
> the possibility that something to do with pre-existence is preventing
> us from benefitting from our existence now?


Our argument has nothing to do with pre-existence, because we are not
calling coming into existence a benefit, you are.

>I seriously doubt you'll
> find someone who believes you really are that stupid, considering
> the fact that pre-existence is ALWAYS the MOST significant
> part of your supposed argument.


The only reason we mention it is because you are calling coming into
existence a benefit, which implies that it is *better_than* something, it
*improves_on* some something.

>>The claim is this.. We can assume that either there is a "pre-existent
>>state" or that there is not,

>
> Regardless of which all evidence suggests that many beings
> benefit from lives of positive mavlue


That means it's *better_than* "lives of negative value" which is something
definable. Not existing is not definable.

>>most probably the latter.

>
> It makes no difference either way since all evidence suggest
> many beings benefit from lives of positive value. That fact is
> very very significant, yet appears to be something else that's
> beyond your ability to comprehend.


I comprehend that a life of positive value is much better than a life of
negative value *for a being that exists*. That is completely different than
saying that life (regrardless of value) is better than no life, because no
life, never existing, has no meaning.

>
>>If there is no such thing, then coming into existence, while it might be
>>"a
>>good thing", which I believe is actually your claim, it cannot be a
>>"benefit" because the meaning of the word benefit implies an improvement
>>to
>>an existing state.

>
> A benefit is a benefit, which a life of positive value certainly
> appears to be REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a state
> of pre-existence and REGARDLESS of anything else to do with
> pre-existence.


See above.

>
>>If there is such a thing as a "pre-existent state", it is of unknown
>>quality, therefore existence as we know it cannot be concluded to be an
>>improvement over it and thus a benefit.

>
> All evidence suggests that many beings benefit from lives of
> positive value REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a state
> of pre-existence and REGARDLESS of anything else to do with
> pre-existence.


See above
>
>>Referring to what you said above, in order for something to be called a
>>benefit you must know the quality of both before and after states.

>
> All evidence suggests that many beings benefit from lives of
> positive value REGARDLESS of whether or not there is a state
> of pre-existence and REGARDLESS of anything else to do with
> pre-existence.


See above

>>If I said
>>a man became a millionaire, is that a benefit? Not if he was a billionaire
>>before and lost most of his fortune.

>
> He would still benefit from the millions in the ways he benefitted
> from the millions regardless of how much or little he benefitted from
> other things.


I didn't ask if having millions was a benefit, answer this question, was the
act of BECOMING A MILLIONAIRE a "benefit" to this person or not?

> You can't say you don't benefit from a rice cake simply
> because you benefitted more from a big bowl of tofu and a steaming
> pile of beets, or whatever you kooks eat.


I didn't say that you benefit or don't benefit from *having* anything, I
asked if "*BECOMING** A MILLIONAIRE was a benefit or a harm to the person.
Answer the question, yes or no. Correct prediction; you will not even
attempt it.

You also can't say how
> anything to do with pre-existence--or anything AT ALL for that matter--
> is preventing billions of beings from benefitting from lives of positive
> value.


You're not dealing with the arguments against you, you never do. Nobody is
suggesting that life isn't good and that beings don't benefit from good
conditions. Your fundamental position is that it's better to come into
existence than to never exist at all. As much as your devotion to the Logic
of the Larder makes that statement appealing to you, it is a logically
unsupportable statement, because "never existing at all" has no meaning.

>We know you wish very very badly that you could, and we
> know WHY you wish you could, LOL, but you can't...you can't even
> pretend to try in fact. I challenge you to try. Go:
>
> (Correct prediction: He can't even make an attempt.)




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Default Goo proves too stupid for HIS OWN "argument"...LOL!!!

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 the Goober continued to lie:

>On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:54:28 -0100, dh@. pointed out:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 the Goober lied:
>>
>>>On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 dh@. again pointed out AGAIN:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Goo lied extremely blatantly:
>>>>
>>>>>dh pointed out AGAIN:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You claim that our own
>>>>>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>>>>>> existence,
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I do not claim that, nor have I said anything that any rational
>>>>>person might innocently misapprehend to mean that.
>>>>
>>>> You certainly do here Goo:
>>>>
>>>>"Life is not a gain because there *was* no person to
>>>>experience the gain" - Goo
>>>>
>>>>and you most certainly do it with animals here Goo:
>>>>
>>>>"Before being alive, an animal has no well-being to promote.
>>>>THEREFORE, ****wit, existence is not benefit to farm animals."
>>>> - Goo
>>>>
>>>>and you do it with all entities here Goo:
>>>>
>>>>"Prior to existing, there was no entity, and thus no welfare"
>>>>- Goo
>>>>
>>>>and you certainly do it for your own stupid ass in particular
>>>>here, Goob:
>>>>
>>>>"coming into existence didn't make me better off than
>>>>I was before." - the Goober
>>>>
>>>>Here before us we have 4 examples of you insisting that
>>>>something to do with pre-existence is preventing us all
>>>>from benefitting from our existence. That much is clear
>>>>and obvious Goo.
>>>
>>>No

>>
>> LOL! By saying that, Goober, you prove yourself to be
>>too stupid for YOUR OWN "argument"...LOL!!!

>
>By saying that, Goo - Goo, you stupid LOSING pig-****ing cracker - I
>describe you accurately.


It doesn't have shit to do with me you stupid Goober. You are
lying that your own claim has nothing to do with pre-existence,
when the obvious fact is that it's completely dependant on some
supposed influence from our pre-existent "selves" on our own
present existence, Goo. By denying it you're saying that you're
too stupid to comprehend the foundation of YOUR OWN
supposed argument.

>You're a liar, Goo. I have never said that "pre-existence" "prevents"
>anything


LOL! You must believe it prevents it, or you wouldn't believe
we are somehow prevented you stupid Goober. Of course the
only reason it appears crystal clear that you believe pre-existence
in particular is preventing it, is because you always refer to
pre-existence as somehow being what you think prevents it.
If you now want to try to claim you believe something other
than pre-existence is what prevents it then try explaining
what you think it is, and Goober, if you have even the slightest
clue at all try explaining HOW you think it does so. GO:



(Prediction: Goo is just too inept for this...too inept to even try.)

>>>>But what you CAN NOT do Goober,
>>>>is to explain HOW you think anything to do with
>>>>pre-existence prevents us from benefitting. As we can
>>>>clearly see you claim that it does, and as we can also
>>>>very clearly see you're incapable of even trying to
>>>>explain HOW! If you think you can, then try. Go:
>>>>
>>>>(Correct prediction: the Goober can't even make
>>>>an attempt, nor can he provide any example(s) of
>>>>him having ever made the attempt much less
>>>>succeeded.)







>Goo - ****wit David Harrison, Stupidist SPAMMER, stupid pig-****ing
>cracker - woke up and said, "How can I be even *more* stupid today than
>I was yesterday?", and so he lied:
>
>> Rudy G. Canoza explained:
>>
>>> Goo - ****wit David Harrison, Stupidist SPAMMER, stupid pig-****ing cracker - woke up and said, "How can I be even *more* stupid today than I was yesterday?", and so he lied and *AGAIN* failed to "point out" anything:

>
>No "pointing out", Goo - not now, not ever. You have not, ever,
>"pointed out" anything. Stupid crackers *cannot* "point out" anything.
>
>>>
>>>> Rudy C. Canoza helpfully clarified:
>>>>
>>>>> Goo - ****wit David Harrison, Stupidist SPAMMER, stupid pig-****ing cracker - woke up and said, "How can I be even *more* stupid today than I was yesterday?", and so he lied:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You claim that our own
>>>>>> pre-existence prevents us from benefitting from our current
>>>>>> existence,
>>>>> No, I do not claim that, nor have I said anything that any rational
>>>>> person might innocently misapprehend to mean that.
>>>> You certainly do here Rudy:
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, Goo. I do not, ever, say anything about "pre-existence" preventing anything in our lives. Ever.
>>>
>>> You're a liar, Goo. Goo - that fits you so well, Goo, you stupid Goober.

>>
>> LOL! By saying that, Rudy,

>
>By saying that, Goo - Goo, you stupid LOSING pig-****ing cracker - I
>describe you accurately.
>
>You're a liar, Goo. I have never said that "pre-existence" "prevents"
>anything, Goo. Nothing even close, Goo. Goo - Goo ****wit David
>Harrison. You stupid, illiterate, ignorant pathetic goober.

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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Sep 16, 11:32*am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> Goo - ****wit David Harrison, Stupidist SPAMMER, stupid pig-****ing
> cracker - woke up and said, "How can I be even *more* stupid today than
> I was yesterday?", and so he lied:
>
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:18 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:

>
> >> "Dragonblaze" > wrote in ...

>
> >>> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
> >>> to brain shrinkage.
> >> No they haven't.

>
> > * * You have in the past explained how you think non-existent
> > frogs survive the draining of rice fields, etc. Think about that...

>
> You have in the past blabbered that non-existent animals can be "denied"
> something; how they can experience "unfairness"; how they can experience
> "loss" and "deprivation". *Those are your true thoughts, not "mistakes"..



You have in the past shown more than a passing interest in Rupert's
foreskin.

Think about *that*!




>
> Think about that, then realize what a stupid ****ing cracker you are.


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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:11:28 -0700 (PDT), "Mr.Smartypants" > wrote:

>On Sep 16, 11:32*am, Goo wrote:
>
>> Those are your true thoughts, not "mistakes".

>
>
>You have in the past shown more than a passing interest in Rupert's
>foreskin.
>
>Think about *that*!


Those are Goo's true thoughts.


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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Mr.Smartypants wrote:
> On Sep 16, 11:32 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>> Goo - ****wit David Harrison, Stupidist SPAMMER, stupid pig-****ing
>> cracker - woke up and said, "How can I be even *more* stupid today than
>> I was yesterday?", and so he lied:
>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:18 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:
>>>> "Dragonblaze" > wrote in ...
>>>>> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet leads
>>>>> to brain shrinkage.
>>>> No they haven't.
>>> You have in the past explained how you think non-existent
>>> frogs survive the draining of rice fields, etc. Think about that...

>> You have in the past blabbered that non-existent animals can be "denied"
>> something; how they can experience "unfairness"; how they can experience
>> "loss" and "deprivation". Those are your true thoughts, not "mistakes".

>
>
> I have in the past lovingly run my tongue inside Rupert's foreskin.
>
> Think about *that*!


I'd rather not.
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Dragonbreath wrote:

> Scientists have found that consuming vegetarian, meat-free diet
> leads to brain shrinkage.

This is a LIE; the study did NOT concern plant-based diets, and did
NOT even mention plant-based diets.

> According to researchers, vegans and vegetarians are the most
> likely to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are
> meat, particularly liver, milk and fish.

LIE, http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm, documents the fact that people
eating a plant-based diet are NOT subject to B-12 deficiency as your
ongoing, mindless meatarian-propaganda falsely claims.

> Yeast extracts are one of the few vegetarian foods which provide
> good levels of the vitamin, reports Courier Mail.

Newspapers are NOT sources of scientifically-credible information.

> When the volunteers were retested five years later the medics found
> those with the lowest levels of vitamin B12 were also the most
> likely to have brain shrinkage.

Not relevant to plant-based diets.

> Also, in a new study it was found that drinking too much alcohol
> can lead to brain shrinkage.

Irrelevant to plant-based diets.

Dragonbreath; IF YOU REFUSE to function at the eighth-grade level of
science, PLEASE LEAVE a.f.v.s. Your propaganda will not be tolerated.

alt.food.vegan.SCIENCE is about SCIENCE.
ALL other issues are OFF TOPIC here.
Please cooperate.

NO SPAMMING.
NO NONSENSE ABOUT "ANIMAL RIGHTS"
NO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS

Laurie Forti, Moderator

alt.food.vegan.science
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

SystemX wrote:
> Rudy Canoza wrote:


Dear SystemX ---

DO NOT cross past ANYTHING concerning Rudy, aka Jon-a-thug noBalls,
Canoza to a.f.v.s.
I am trying to maintain a level of decency and scientific
credibility noBalls is incapable of maintaining.
Better yet, don't feed this psychopathic troll.

alt.food.vegan.SCIENCE is about SCIENCE.
ALL other issues are OFF TOPIC here.
Please cooperate.

NO SPAMMING.
NO NONSENSE ABOUT "ANIMAL RIGHTS"
NO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS

Laurie Forti, Moderator

alt.food.vegan.science
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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

> According to researchers, vegans and vegetarians are the most
> likely to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are
> meat, particularly liver, milk and fish.

LIE, http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm, documents the fact that
people
eating a plant-based diet are NOT subject to B-12 deficiency as
your
ongoing, mindless meatarian-propaganda falsely claims.

The above is a cherry picked bit of propaganda too. Plants do not
produce vit b12, plants that come into contact with manure or other soil
ssources can contain some small amount of it. Animals produce it in
their large gut, where it can get in soil, and then back to animals and
into their flesh as a cycle. Humans get it by tapping somewhere into
the cycle. Any vit b12 associated with plants is incidental to the
cycle.

some facts:

iagnosis
of vitamin B[12] deficiency is typically based on measurement of
serum
vitamin B[12] levels; however, about 50 percent of patients with
subclinical disease have normal B[12] levels. A more sensitive method
of screening for vitamin B[12] deficiency is measurement of serum
methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels, which are increased early
in vitamin B[12] deficiency. Use of the Schilling test for detection
of pernicious anemia has been supplanted for the most part by
serologic testing for parietal cell and intrinsic factor antibodies.
And:

According to the National Institutes of Health, vitamin B12
deficiency
can lead to a wide spectrum of conditions, such as anemia, dementia
and reduced cognitive functioning. Vitamin B12 deficiency is a
significant health issue. Nearly 40 percent of the U.S. population is
B12 deficient (Tufts University, Boston). This includes a sizable
number of patients who are severely deficient and are currently being
treated.

Further, a vast number of people are completely unaware they are B12
deficient and will eventually need treatment. Seniors and strict
vegetarians are most at risk. Symptoms such as fatigue, constipation,
loss of appetite and weight loss can occur in those who are
deficient.

Currently, physicians rely on B12 shots for people with vitamin B12
deficiency because of the poor bioavailability of oral formulations.
Past studies have shown that only approximately one percent of a
vitamin B12 tablet gets absorbed in the bloodstream after traveling
through the digestive track. Because so much of the vitamin is
wasted,
alternatives to effectively treat or protect against B12 deficiency
are needed.

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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Laurie wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:

>
> Dear SystemX ---
>
> DO NOT cross past ANYTHING concerning Rudy, aka Jon-a-thug noBalls,
> Canoza to a.f.v.s.
> I am trying to maintain a level of decency and scientific
> credibility noBalls is incapable of maintaining.
> Better yet, don't feed this psychopathic troll.
>
> alt.food.vegan.SCIENCE is about SCIENCE.
> ALL other issues are OFF TOPIC here.
> Please cooperate.
>
> NO SPAMMING.
> NO NONSENSE ABOUT "ANIMAL RIGHTS"
> NO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS
>
> Laurie Forti, Moderator
>
> alt.food.vegan.science



**** off Laurie Forti, you ****.

I'll post; in this case *respond* to what I ****ing well want to.

Moderate THAT!


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Default Study Says Going Veggie can Lead to Brain Shrinkage

Laurie wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:

>
> Dear SystemX ---
>
> DO NOT cross past ANYTHING concerning Rudy, aka Jon-a-thug noBalls,
> Canoza to a.f.v.s.
> I am trying to maintain a level of decency and scientific
> credibility noBalls is incapable of maintaining.
> Better yet, don't feed this psychopathic troll.
>
> alt.food.vegan.SCIENCE is about SCIENCE.
> ALL other issues are OFF TOPIC here.
> Please cooperate.
>
> NO SPAMMING.
> NO NONSENSE ABOUT "ANIMAL RIGHTS"
> NO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS
>
> Laurie Forti, Moderator
>
> alt.food.vegan.science


Thinking about this, Laurie Forti, wanabe moderator, you have replied to
my post detailing peer reviewed scientific papers that were on topic
regarding the elderly and B12 levels, with a post that is *totally* off
topic with some inane drivel about "Rudy, aka Jon-a-thug noBalls, Canoza"!

"Rudy" has made a big impression with you, as you seem to be infatuated
with him.

You do NOT moderate this group, and you never will. The best you can do
is kill file me, which I genuinely hope you do.

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