We've had plenty of duscussions about White Tuna (aka
Super White Tuna, Escolar,Oilfish) in the past. But I thought I'd mention
that on this mornings Japanese TV news (Fuji TV) they ran a little story
about about
the popularity of so-called" Shiro-Maguro" (White Tuna)
in South Korea where it is called Kilmuchi in Korean.
As expected they showed how the taste was fatty and similar to the Toro
portions of Tuna, had a fish expert explaining how the use of the name
"tuna" was misleading since the fish has no relation to the tuna family,
but they pointed out that under Japanese law it serving it is prohibited for
the digestion problems that we have all heard of. In Japan the fish is
called Haremutsu (also aburabouzu) and they interviewed a Japanese fisherman
who showed an example of the fish who stated that they throw back whatever
they catch because they have no market value.

I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by news earlier since
I think "White Tuna" has been around in the US for at least 5 years? 10? It
also amazes me that
here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
and yet in the US it is not.

M

Musashi wrote:
> We've had plenty of duscussions about White Tuna (aka
> Super White Tuna, Escolar,Oilfish) in the past. But I thought I'd mention
> that on this mornings Japanese TV news (Fuji TV) they ran a little story
> about about
> the popularity of so-called" Shiro-Maguro" (White Tuna)
> in South Korea where it is called Kilmuchi in Korean.
> As expected they showed how the taste was fatty and similar to the Toro
> portions of Tuna, had a fish expert explaining how the use of the name
> "tuna" was misleading since the fish has no relation to the tuna family,
> but they pointed out that under Japanese law it serving it is prohibited for
> the digestion problems that we have all heard of. In Japan the fish is
> called Haremutsu (also aburabouzu) and they interviewed a Japanese fisherman
> who showed an example of the fish who stated that they throw back whatever
> they catch because they have no market value.
>
> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by news earlier since
> I think "White Tuna" has been around in the US for at least 5 years? 10? It
> also amazes me that
> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
> and yet in the US it is not.
>
> M
>
>
>
>
I agree with your last comment, M. At first I'm struck by the eclectic
species of sea life that come into Japanese fish markets, although I
must confess I only know what I've seen on TV. Then it strikes me that
perhaps it is the strong focus on seafood in the Japanese market that
puts them at the forefront considering the consumers well being. That
being in opposition to the relative 'recent' introductions of raw fish
items in the U.S. That and the difference in the number of people
consuming raw fish in each of the countries.

We may think sushi ( and I know it's not all raw fish ) is pervasive in
American society, but much of the population has never and will never
try it. Therefore, fewer people are protected by legislation here than
there.

--

><<XX>:> Buddy

Musashi wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 13:04:23 GMT:

M> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by
M> news earlier since I think "White Tuna" has been around in
M> the US for at least 5 years? 10? It also amazes me that
M> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
M> and yet in the US it is not.

There are some problems. There are people who can eat escolar
without digestive complications; lucky them since I can vouch
from my one and only tasting that escolar is delicious! Also,
not all "white tuna" is escolar. I think it is often Albacore
tuna tho' you can tell the difference by appearance since
Albacore does have some color.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Musashi wrote:
> We've had plenty of duscussions about White Tuna (aka
> Super White Tuna, Escolar,Oilfish) in the past. But I thought I'd mention
> that on this mornings Japanese TV news (Fuji TV) they ran a little story
> about about
> the popularity of so-called" Shiro-Maguro" (White Tuna)
> in South Korea where it is called Kilmuchi in Korean.
> As expected they showed how the taste was fatty and similar to the Toro
> portions of Tuna, had a fish expert explaining how the use of the name
> "tuna" was misleading since the fish has no relation to the tuna family,
> but they pointed out that under Japanese law it serving it is prohibited for
> the digestion problems that we have all heard of. In Japan the fish is
> called Haremutsu (also aburabouzu) and they interviewed a Japanese fisherman
> who showed an example of the fish who stated that they throw back whatever
> they catch because they have no market value.

This, and SUper White Tuna, are both regular items at my favorite sushi bar.
I really enjoy Bincho Maguro (Shiro Maguro). It does have a rich, fatty flavor
like toro. Its a little on the soft side, but that doesn't bother me. I would
be that is why its not as popular.

> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by news earlier since
> I think "White Tuna" has been around in the US for at least 5 years? 10? It
> also amazes me that
> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
> and yet in the US it is not.

Why do the Japanese prohibit it? Does it cause similar issue that
Super White Tuna does to some people?

--
Dan

James Silverton wrote:

> Musashi wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 13:04:23 GMT:
>
> M> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by
> M> news earlier since I think "White Tuna" has been around in
> M> the US for at least 5 years? 10? It also amazes me that
> M> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
> M> and yet in the US it is not.
>
> There are some problems. There are people who can eat escolar without
> digestive complications; lucky them since I can vouch from my one and
> only tasting that escolar is delicious! Also, not all "white tuna" is
> escolar. I think it is often Albacore tuna tho' you can tell the
> difference by appearance since Albacore does have some color.

He was referring to albacore, white tuna. I'm surprised that is prohibited
in Japan as well. DO you also have digestive problems with white tuna?

--
Dan

Dan Logcher wrote:
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Musashi wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 13:04:23 GMT:
>>
>> M> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by
>> M> news earlier since I think "White Tuna" has been around in
>> M> the US for at least 5 years? 10? It also amazes me that
>> M> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
>> M> and yet in the US it is not.
>>
>> There are some problems. There are people who can eat escolar without
>> digestive complications; lucky them since I can vouch from my one and
>> only tasting that escolar is delicious! Also, not all "white tuna" is
>> escolar. I think it is often Albacore tuna tho' you can tell the
>> difference by appearance since Albacore does have some color.
>
> He was referring to albacore, white tuna. I'm surprised that is prohibited
> in Japan as well. DO you also have digestive problems with white tuna?
>
Dan, I'm thinking we have that age old problem of correct identification
where Latin sure would help. I just searched around and Catalina
Offshore Products, for one, is calling escolar 'Shiro-Maguro' see
http://www.catalinaop.com/Escolar_Shiro_Maguro_s/55.htm

Otherwise, albacore makes no sense or it wouldn't be the number one
canned tuna in this country.

--

><<XX>:> Buddy

They have a white fish labeled "white tuna" in the giant Todais in
California so it can't be causing many problems there can it? It's
very tasty.

Buddy wrote:

> Dan Logcher wrote:
>
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> Musashi wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 13:04:23 GMT:
>>>
>>> M> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by
>>> M> news earlier since I think "White Tuna" has been around in
>>> M> the US for at least 5 years? 10? It also amazes me that
>>> M> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
>>> M> and yet in the US it is not.
>>>
>>> There are some problems. There are people who can eat escolar without
>>> digestive complications; lucky them since I can vouch from my one and
>>> only tasting that escolar is delicious! Also, not all "white tuna" is
>>> escolar. I think it is often Albacore tuna tho' you can tell the
>>> difference by appearance since Albacore does have some color.
>>
>>
>> He was referring to albacore, white tuna. I'm surprised that is
>> prohibited
>> in Japan as well. DO you also have digestive problems with white tuna?
>>
> Dan, I'm thinking we have that age old problem of correct identification
> where Latin sure would help. I just searched around and Catalina
> Offshore Products, for one, is calling escolar 'Shiro-Maguro' see
> http://www.catalinaop.com/Escolar_Shiro_Maguro_s/55.htm
>
> Otherwise, albacore makes no sense or it wouldn't be the number one
> canned tuna in this country.

At my favorite sushi bar, they call albacore Bincho Maguro. I've seen it
listed as Shiro Maguro at other places. I believe the cooking process may
remove a lot of the fatty oils.

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
> > We've had plenty of duscussions about White Tuna (aka
> > Super White Tuna, Escolar,Oilfish) in the past. But I thought I'd
mention
> > that on this mornings Japanese TV news (Fuji TV) they ran a little story
> > about about
> > the popularity of so-called" Shiro-Maguro" (White Tuna)
> > in South Korea where it is called Kilmuchi in Korean.
> > As expected they showed how the taste was fatty and similar to the Toro
> > portions of Tuna, had a fish expert explaining how the use of the name
> > "tuna" was misleading since the fish has no relation to the tuna family,
> > but they pointed out that under Japanese law it serving it is prohibited
for
> > the digestion problems that we have all heard of. In Japan the fish is
> > called Haremutsu (also aburabouzu) and they interviewed a Japanese
fisherman
> > who showed an example of the fish who stated that they throw back
whatever
> > they catch because they have no market value.
>
> This, and SUper White Tuna, are both regular items at my favorite sushi
bar.
> I really enjoy Bincho Maguro (Shiro Maguro). It does have a rich, fatty
flavor
> like toro. Its a little on the soft side, but that doesn't bother me. I
would
> be that is why its not as popular.
>

Yes you've mentioned before Dan that you find "White Tuna/Super White Tuna"
tasty
and having tasted it myself I tend to agree with you.
There is some further confusion wit the name because Binchou Maguro (also
read Bin naga Maguro)
is Albacore. If you look at a photo of an Albacore you'll see that the
pectoral fin is really long and
that's what Binchou means. The confusion arises because some Japanese itamae
will call Albacore
"Shiro Maguro...literally "white tuna".
Anyone who has eaten Albacore (very slightly pinkish) and Escolar (pure
white) can easily tell the difference.

> > I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by news earlier
since
> > I think "White Tuna" has been around in the US for at least 5 years? 10?
It
> > also amazes me that
> > here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
> > and yet in the US it is not.
>
> Why do the Japanese prohibit it? Does it cause similar issue that
> Super White Tuna does to some people?
>

Super White Tuna, also called White Tuna (not the Albacore) is the Escolar,
Oilfish that
is known to pose digestion problems for some people.
That is why is is banned in Japan.

Musashi

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> James Silverton wrote:
>
> > Musashi wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 13:04:23 GMT:
> >
> > M> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by
> > M> news earlier since I think "White Tuna" has been around in
> > M> the US for at least 5 years? 10? It also amazes me that
> > M> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
> > M> and yet in the US it is not.
> >
> > There are some problems. There are people who can eat escolar without
> > digestive complications; lucky them since I can vouch from my one and
> > only tasting that escolar is delicious! Also, not all "white tuna" is
> > escolar. I think it is often Albacore tuna tho' you can tell the
> > difference by appearance since Albacore does have some color.
>
> He was referring to albacore, white tuna. I'm surprised that is
prohibited
> in Japan as well. DO you also have digestive problems with white tuna?
>
> --
> Dan

To clarify...the news story was abot Escolar.
Not about Albacore.
M

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> They have a white fish labeled "white tuna" in the giant Todais in
> California so it can't be causing many problems there can it? It's
> very tasty.
>

Firstly I wouldn't put the Todai chain at the forefront of
knowledge regarding raw fish even despite the nature of
their business.
Secondly even though I have personally not suffered any ill effects after
trying some escolar, others have. And apparently it is to the extent that
regular Seafood restaurants in New York pulled Escolar off their menus.
The web has plenty of articles talking about the risk of
eating escolar.

In truth, I now see escolar being sold as "white tuna" in
some Japanese food stores, although the Japanese customers simply won't
touch the stuff. Additionally some
stores are cheating on their Negitoro by mixing real tuna
(probably akami leftovers) with escolar to produce that
"toro-like" taste. However to anyone truly familar with tuna the taste and
color are a dead giveaway.

M

Musashi wrote:
> There is some further confusion wit the name because Binchou Maguro (also
> read Bin naga Maguro)
> is Albacore. If you look at a photo of an Albacore you'll see that the
> pectoral fin is really long and
> that's what Binchou means. The confusion arises because some Japanese itamae
> will call Albacore
> "Shiro Maguro...literally "white tuna".
> Anyone who has eaten Albacore (very slightly pinkish) and Escolar (pure
> white) can easily tell the difference.

That's true, it is more of a pinkish hue. The texture is also completely
different.

> Super White Tuna, also called White Tuna (not the Albacore) is the Escolar,
> Oilfish that is known to pose digestion problems for some people.
> That is why is is banned in Japan.

Is alcacore prohibited in Japan as well? I thought that's what you meant.

--
Dan

Musashi wrote:

> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Musashi wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 13:04:23 GMT:
>>>
>>>M> I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by
>>>M> news earlier since I think "White Tuna" has been around in
>>>M> the US for at least 5 years? 10? It also amazes me that
>>>M> here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
>>>M> and yet in the US it is not.
>>>
>>>There are some problems. There are people who can eat escolar without
>>>digestive complications; lucky them since I can vouch from my one and
>>>only tasting that escolar is delicious! Also, not all "white tuna" is
>>>escolar. I think it is often Albacore tuna tho' you can tell the
>>>difference by appearance since Albacore does have some color.
>>
>>He was referring to albacore, white tuna. I'm surprised that is
>
> prohibited
>
>>in Japan as well. DO you also have digestive problems with white tuna?
>
> To clarify...the news story was abot Escolar.
> Not about Albacore.

Ah ok. I thought you were talking about albacore being banned.
I say put up a warning about the possible problem and let the
customer decide if they want to try it. Its much like the Olestra
additive they had/have in potato chips.

--
Dan

On 2007-05-04 08:33:07 -0700, Dan Logcher > said:

> Musashi wrote:
>> There is some further confusion wit the name because Binchou Maguro (also
>> read Bin naga Maguro)
>> is Albacore. If you look at a photo of an Albacore you'll see that the
>> pectoral fin is really long and
>> that's what Binchou means. The confusion arises because some Japanese itamae
>> will call Albacore
>> "Shiro Maguro...literally "white tuna".
>> Anyone who has eaten Albacore (very slightly pinkish) and Escolar (pure
>> white) can easily tell the difference.
>
> That's true, it is more of a pinkish hue. The texture is also completely
> different.
>
>> Super White Tuna, also called White Tuna (not the Albacore) is the Escolar,
>> Oilfish that is known to pose digestion problems for some people.
>> That is why is is banned in Japan.
>
> Is alcacore prohibited in Japan as well? I thought that's what you meant.

Could this discussion get more confused?

Albacore is not escolar (aka white tuna aka many things to avoid
calling it escolar). Escolar is known to cause digestive problems in
people. Albacore is not.
--
///---

Gerry wrote on Fri, 4 May 2007 13:35:53 -0700:

??>> Musashi wrote:
??>>> There is some further confusion wit the name because
??>>> Binchou Maguro (also read Bin naga Maguro) is Albacore.
??>>> If you look at a photo of an Albacore you'll see that the
??>>> pectoral fin is really long and
??>>> that's what Binchou means. The confusion arises because
??>>> some Japanese itamae will call Albacore "Shiro
??>>> Maguro...literally "white tuna". Anyone who has eaten
??>>> Albacore (very slightly pinkish) and Escolar (pure white)
??>>> can easily tell the difference.
??>>
??>> That's true, it is more of a pinkish hue. The texture is
??>> also completely different.
??>>
??>>> Super White Tuna, also called White Tuna (not the
??>>> Albacore) is the Escolar, Oilfish that is known to pose
??>>> digestion problems for some people. That is why is is
??>>> banned in Japan.
??>>
??>> Is alcacore prohibited in Japan as well? I thought that's
??>> what you meant.

G> Could this discussion get more confused?

G> Albacore is not escolar (aka white tuna aka many things to
G> avoid calling it escolar). Escolar is known to cause
G> digestive problems in people. Albacore is not.

You are absolutely correct on "white tuna" and "albacore" and it
is escolar that is banned in Japan not albacore. Confusion has
arisen is because *both* are sold sometimes as "white tuna" in
the US. It is true that there is a visual distinction since
escolar is absolutely white and albacore pinkish.




James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

James Silverton wrote:
> Gerry wrote on Fri, 4 May 2007 13:35:53 -0700:
>
> ??>> Musashi wrote:
> ??>>> There is some further confusion wit the name because
> ??>>> Binchou Maguro (also read Bin naga Maguro) is Albacore.
> ??>>> If you look at a photo of an Albacore you'll see that the
> ??>>> pectoral fin is really long and
> ??>>> that's what Binchou means. The confusion arises because
> ??>>> some Japanese itamae will call Albacore "Shiro
> ??>>> Maguro...literally "white tuna". Anyone who has eaten
> ??>>> Albacore (very slightly pinkish) and Escolar (pure white)
> ??>>> can easily tell the difference.
> ??>>
> ??>> That's true, it is more of a pinkish hue. The texture is
> ??>> also completely different.
> ??>>
> ??>>> Super White Tuna, also called White Tuna (not the
> ??>>> Albacore) is the Escolar, Oilfish that is known to pose
> ??>>> digestion problems for some people. That is why is is
> ??>>> banned in Japan.
> ??>>
> ??>> Is alcacore prohibited in Japan as well? I thought that's
> ??>> what you meant.
>
> G> Could this discussion get more confused?
>
> G> Albacore is not escolar (aka white tuna aka many things to
> G> avoid calling it escolar). Escolar is known to cause
> G> digestive problems in people. Albacore is not.
>
> You are absolutely correct on "white tuna" and "albacore" and it is
> escolar that is banned in Japan not albacore. Confusion has arisen is
> because *both* are sold sometimes as "white tuna" in the US. It is true
> that there is a visual distinction since escolar is absolutely white and
> albacore pinkish.

When I've seen white tuna listed when I was in San Francisco, it was white
tuna. Here its Bincho Maguro. Would that be the same as Shiro Maguro?
That's where my confusion came from..

--
Dan

Dan wrote on Fri, 04 May 2007 17:47:21 -0400:

DL> James Silverton wrote:
??>> Gerry wrote on Fri, 4 May 2007 13:35:53 -0700:
??>>
??>>>> Musashi wrote:
??>>>>> There is some further confusion wit the name because
??>>>>> Binchou Maguro (also read Bin naga Maguro) is Albacore.
??>>>>> If you look at a photo of an Albacore you'll see that
??>>>>> the pectoral fin is really long and that's what Binchou
??>>>>> means. The confusion arises because some Japanese
??>>>>> itamae will call Albacore "Shiro Maguro...literally
??>>>>> "white tuna". Anyone who has eaten Albacore (very
??>>>>> slightly pinkish) and Escolar (pure white) can easily
??>>>>> tell the difference.
??>>>>
??>>>> That's true, it is more of a pinkish hue. The texture
??>>>> is also completely different.
??>>>>
??>>>>> Super White Tuna, also called White Tuna (not the
??>>>>> Albacore) is the Escolar, Oilfish that is known to pose
??>>>>> digestion problems for some people. That is why is is
??>>>>> banned in Japan.
??>>>>
??>>>> Is alcacore prohibited in Japan as well? I thought
??>>>> that's what you meant.
??>>
G>>> Could this discussion get more confused?
??>>
G>>> Albacore is not escolar (aka white tuna aka many things to
G>>> avoid calling it escolar). Escolar is known to cause
G>>> digestive problems in people. Albacore is not.
??>>
??>> You are absolutely correct on "white tuna" and "albacore"
??>> and it is escolar that is banned in Japan not albacore.
??>> Confusion has arisen is because *both* are sold sometimes
??>> as "white tuna" in the US. It is true that there is a
??>> visual distinction since escolar is absolutely white and
??>> albacore pinkish.

DL> When I've seen white tuna listed when I was in San
DL> Francisco, it was white tuna. Here its Bincho Maguro.
DL> Would that be the same as Shiro Maguro? That's where my
DL> confusion came from..

I'd have to see the stuff before venturing an answer since I
don't know the Japanese names. I did suffer a day of the runs
after eating the completely white (and delicious) fish that the
itamae called "white tuna" in an otherwise fine sushi place in
Rockville MD.


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

On 2007-05-04 15:11:59 -0700, "James Silverton"
<not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> said:

> DL> When I've seen white tuna listed when I was in San
> DL> Francisco, it was white tuna. Here its Bincho Maguro.
> DL> Would that be the same as Shiro Maguro? That's where my
> DL> confusion came from..
>
> I'd have to see the stuff before venturing an answer since I don't know
> the Japanese names. I did suffer a day of the runs after eating the
> completely white (and delicious) fish that the itamae called "white
> tuna" in an otherwise fine sushi place in Rockville MD.

Just ask if it's escolar. That's what I do. I've never encountered
anything called "white tuna" that wasn't Escolar. When I ask
sushi-chefs if that's what it is, they always look sheepish.
--
///---

On May 4, 8:10 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > They have a white fish labeled "white tuna" in the giant Todais in
> > California so it can't be causing many problems there can it? It's
> > very tasty.
>
> Firstly I wouldn't put the Todai chain at the forefront of
> knowledge regarding raw fish even despite the nature of
> their business.
> Secondly even though I have personally not suffered any ill effects after
> trying some escolar, others have. And apparently it is to the extent that
> regular Seafood restaurants in New York pulled Escolar off their menus.
> The web has plenty of articles talking about the risk of
> eating escolar...



But I'd put Todai in the forefront of knowledge in what's going to
sell well and keep people coming back and not make people sick and get
them sued and shut down by the health department. Todai does what,
100 times the business volume of the average sushi joint? Something
labeled "white tuna" seems to work for them. Perhaps they have a way
to treat it to make it safe, or maybe it's a different fish. I've
also wondered how they keep their large volume of raw fish safe. It
would be interesting to get one of their managers or fish buyers or
chefs on here.

Todai ad: "white tuna loin"

http://www.todaisandiego.com/

On 2007-05-04 20:16:12 -0700, said:

> But I'd put Todai in the forefront of knowledge in what's going to
> sell well and keep people coming back and not make people sick and get
> them sued and shut down by the health department.

That's what *I* look for in a dining experiences! :-)
--
///---

We're not talking about what you look for in a dining experience,
we're talking about the health and safety aspects of eating "white
tuna".

wrote:
> We're not talking about what you look for in a dining experience,
> we're talking about the health and safety aspects of eating "white
> tuna".

There's no real health and safety issue per say. Its just like milk.
Some people are lactos intolerant, others are not. They don't ban milk
because of the people who can't drink it. You just need to let people
know the possible risk of digestive issues.

--
Dan

On 2007-05-06 08:21:41 -0700, Dan Logcher > said:

> wrote:
>> We're not talking about what you look for in a dining experience,
>> we're talking about the health and safety aspects of eating "white
>> tuna".
>
> There's no real health and safety issue per say.

I don't think that's true from what I've read.

> Its just like milk. Some people are lactos intolerant, others are not.
> They don't ban milk because of the people who can't drink it.

If we want to go out to the end of the bell-curve, not everybody who
smokes cigarettes gets cancer either. That doesn't imply it is benighn
vis-a-vis health concerns.

> You just need to let people know the possible risk of digestive issues.

The argument many use for the legalization of cocaine, opiates, etc.
And valid, to a degree. We all decide what that degree is, whether
legalized or otherwise.

I think it's a bit different. White tuna has a lot greater possibility
of risk than does cow's milk. Seems we've posted the websites and their
myriad descriptions of escolar.

I only had to read these once to think I didn't need to find out if I
was one of those that might not be effected.
--
///---

Gerry wrote:
> On 2007-05-06 08:21:41 -0700, Dan Logcher >
> said:
>>
>> There's no real health and safety issue per say.
>
>
> I don't think that's true from what I've read.

WHy is that?

>> Its just like milk. Some people are lactos intolerant, others are
>> not. They don't ban milk because of the people who can't drink it.
>
> If we want to go out to the end of the bell-curve, not everybody who
> smokes cigarettes gets cancer either. That doesn't imply it is benighn
> vis-a-vis health concerns.

Cigarettes are a known carcinogen, milk and oilfish are not (yet).
If a food makes some ill and not others, then those who are afflicted
should stay clear.

>> You just need to let people know the possible risk of digestive issues.
>
> The argument many use for the legalization of cocaine, opiates, etc.
> And valid, to a degree. We all decide what that degree is, whether
> legalized or otherwise.

Sure, inform the people and let them decide who to treat their own bodies.

> I think it's a bit different. White tuna has a lot greater possibility
> of risk than does cow's milk. Seems we've posted the websites and their
> myriad descriptions of escolar.

I don't know about that.. I know more people who are lactose intolerant than
I know who are escolar intolerant.

> I only had to read these once to think I didn't need to find out if I
> was one of those that might not be effected.

Thats too bad, its a delicious fish. My wife and son also love it.

--
Dan

Dan Logcher > wrote:
> Gerry wrote:
> > On 2007-05-06 08:21:41 -0700, Dan Logcher >
> >> [ . . . ]
> > I only had to read these once to think I didn't need to find out if I
> > was one of those that might not be effected.
>
> Thats too bad, its a delicious fish. My wife and son also love it.

My friend's 4 year old daughter is highly allergic to peanuts. He and his
wife have no problem with them. They're very careful when eating out, as
even French Fries cooked in peanut oil could land her in the hospital. My
wife and kids eat a lot of peanuts and I eat them in the shell, with no
problem. Don't ban peanuts!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~

On 2007-05-06 12:08:56 -0700, Dan Logcher > said:

> Gerry wrote:
>> On 2007-05-06 08:21:41 -0700, Dan Logcher > said:
>>>
>>> There's no real health and safety issue per say.
>>
>>
>> I don't think that's true from what I've read.
>
> Why is that?

Ehh, I'm not invested enough to run down the websites again. Read them
if you like, make your evaluations as you please.

> Cigarettes are a known carcinogen, milk and oilfish are not (yet).
> If a food makes some ill and not others, then those who are afflicted
> should stay clear.
>
>> I only had to read these once to think I didn't need to find out if I
>> was one of those that might not be effected.
>
> Thats too bad, its a delicious fish. My wife and son also love it.

Bon appetite!
--
///---

Nick Cramer wrote:

> Dan Logcher > wrote:
>
>>Gerry wrote:
>>
>>>On 2007-05-06 08:21:41 -0700, Dan Logcher >
>>>
>>>>[ . . . ]
>>>
>>>I only had to read these once to think I didn't need to find out if I
>>>was one of those that might not be effected.
>>
>>Thats too bad, its a delicious fish. My wife and son also love it.
>
>
> My friend's 4 year old daughter is highly allergic to peanuts. He and his
> wife have no problem with them. They're very careful when eating out, as
> even French Fries cooked in peanut oil could land her in the hospital. My
> wife and kids eat a lot of peanuts and I eat them in the shell, with no
> problem. Don't ban peanuts!

I wouldn't think it.. but you know they are already trying to do this.
My wife tells me that the kindergarten my son will soon attend makes any
kids with peanut butter for lunch sit at their own table. And that's how
it starts..

Don't ban peanuts and super white tuna!

--
Dan

Dan Logcher > wrote:
> Nick Cramer wrote:
> > Dan Logcher > wrote:
> >>Gerry wrote:
> >>>On 2007-05-06 08:21:41 -0700, Dan Logcher
> >>>>[ . . . ]
> I wouldn't think it.. but you know they are already trying to do this.
> My wife tells me that the kindergarten my son will soon attend makes any
> kids with peanut butter for lunch sit at their own table. And that's how
> it starts..
>
> Don't ban peanuts and super white tuna!

Poor little peanut pariahs! Don't ban anything! Freedom to the people!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~

The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be a
different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan. Maybe
it's albacore tuna.

The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be
a
different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan.
Probably
it's albacore tuna.

wrote:
> The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be a
> different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan. Maybe
> it's albacore tuna.

Next time you're there take not of the color. If its pure white
its escolar/oilfish. If it has a pinkish hue, its albacore. Take a
picture if you can..

--
Dan

On 2007-05-07 07:18:55 -0700, said:

> The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be a
> different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan. Maybe
> it's albacore tuna.

Then why wouldn't they call it albacore tuna? Especially as at lease a
certain percent of folks now that "white tuna" is just gaming escolar?
From my experience, I see no reason to call something "white tuna"
except to intentionally obfusicate what it really is; escolar.
--
///---

Gerry wrote:

> On 2007-05-07 07:18:55 -0700, said:
>
>> The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be a
>> different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan. Maybe
>> it's albacore tuna.
>
>
> Then why wouldn't they call it albacore tuna? Especially as at lease a
> certain percent of folks now that "white tuna" is just gaming escolar?
> From my experience, I see no reason to call something "white tuna"
> except to intentionally obfusicate what it really is; escolar.

I don't know why they would want to do this, except to make it more
mentally palatable. I don't believe they are trying to hide what it
really is.. I think they are themselves confused about names.

I saw albacore listed at white tuna in San Francisco a few years back.
I don't see if in many place in Boston though. I have even seen oilfish
listed at mutsu or swordfish.

--
Dan

> Next time you're there take not of the color. If its pure white
> its escolar/oilfish. If it has a pinkish hue, its albacore. Take a
> picture if you can..
>
> --
> Dan




As I recall it did have a pale pink cast to it. Albacore.

> Then why wouldn't they call it albacore tuna? Especially as at lease a
> certain percent of folks now that "white tuna" is just gaming escolar?
> From my experience, I see no reason to call something "white tuna"
> except to intentionally obfusicate what it really is; escolar.
> --




Don't ask me, but you can see them advertising "white tuna" on the
link I posted, and the sign says "white tuna" by the fish. The Todai
I'm thinking of is the one in the West. Mall right by you, so you know
that a very high percentage of their clientelle are Asian besides. A
super-high volume place like that isn't going to be selling something
that's going to make a lot of people ill, especially not here in
litigious USA!

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> On May 4, 8:10 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> >
> > ups.com...
> >
> > > They have a white fish labeled "white tuna" in the giant Todais in
> > > California so it can't be causing many problems there can it? It's
> > > very tasty.
> >
> > Firstly I wouldn't put the Todai chain at the forefront of
> > knowledge regarding raw fish even despite the nature of
> > their business.
> > Secondly even though I have personally not suffered any ill effects
after
> > trying some escolar, others have. And apparently it is to the extent
that
> > regular Seafood restaurants in New York pulled Escolar off their menus.
> > The web has plenty of articles talking about the risk of
> > eating escolar...
>
>
>
> But I'd put Todai in the forefront of knowledge in what's going to
> sell well and keep people coming back and not make people sick and get
> them sued and shut down by the health department. Todai does what,
> 100 times the business volume of the average sushi joint? Something
> labeled "white tuna" seems to work for them. Perhaps they have a way
> to treat it to make it safe, or maybe it's a different fish. I've
> also wondered how they keep their large volume of raw fish safe. It
> would be interesting to get one of their managers or fish buyers or
> chefs on here.
>

What you say is probably true, however regardless of the quality
of the restaurant, for the most part, an issue like this is not considered
by that restaurant unless a customer has a problem and complains.
I do not believe there is anyway to make it "safe" by treatment, but
as for whether the "white tuna" at Todai is Escolar or Albacore, I'd have
to go there and test it myself.
M

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Gerry wrote:
>
> > On 2007-05-07 07:18:55 -0700, said:
> >
> >> The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be a
> >> different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan. Maybe
> >> it's albacore tuna.
> >
> >
> > Then why wouldn't they call it albacore tuna? Especially as at lease a
> > certain percent of folks now that "white tuna" is just gaming escolar?
> > From my experience, I see no reason to call something "white tuna"
> > except to intentionally obfusicate what it really is; escolar.
>
> I don't know why they would want to do this, except to make it more
> mentally palatable. I don't believe they are trying to hide what it
> really is.. I think they are themselves confused about names.
>
> I saw albacore listed at white tuna in San Francisco a few years back.
> I don't see if in many place in Boston though. I have even seen oilfish
> listed at mutsu or swordfish.
>
> --
> Dan

Adding more confusion to the confusion, here is a site for the Health
Department
in England. It shows a photo of Escolar, which is not the pure wjite that I
know but
a pinkish color like Albacore. The brief article also differentiates Escolar
from Oilfish
which , I was under the impression was the same fish.
http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarch...esultinillness
M

Musashi wrote:
> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Gerry wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 2007-05-07 07:18:55 -0700, said:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The "white tuna" that's being advertised and served at Todai must be a
>>>>different fish than the "white tuna" that's banned in Japan. Maybe
>>>>it's albacore tuna.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then why wouldn't they call it albacore tuna? Especially as at lease a
>>>certain percent of folks now that "white tuna" is just gaming escolar?
>>> From my experience, I see no reason to call something "white tuna"
>>>except to intentionally obfusicate what it really is; escolar.
>>
>>I don't know why they would want to do this, except to make it more
>>mentally palatable. I don't believe they are trying to hide what it
>>really is.. I think they are themselves confused about names.
>>
>>I saw albacore listed at white tuna in San Francisco a few years back.
>>I don't see if in many place in Boston though. I have even seen oilfish
>>listed at mutsu or swordfish.
>>
>>--
>>Dan
>
>
> Adding more confusion to the confusion, here is a site for the Health
> Department
> in England. It shows a photo of Escolar, which is not the pure wjite that I
> know but
> a pinkish color like Albacore. The brief article also differentiates Escolar
> from Oilfish
> which , I was under the impression was the same fish.
> http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarch...esultinillness

Oilfish is a close relative to Escolar. Perhaps they didn't wash the
blood off after fileting the fish.

--
Dan

"Buddy" <why.wood.yew@bother> wrote in message
...
> Musashi burped:
> > We've had plenty of duscussions about White Tuna (aka
> > Super White Tuna, Escolar,Oilfish) in the past. But I thought I'd
mention
> > that on this mornings Japanese TV news (Fuji TV) they ran a little story
> > about about
> > the popularity of so-called" Shiro-Maguro" (White Tuna)
> > in South Korea where it is called Kilmuchi in Korean.
> > As expected they showed how the taste was fatty and similar to the Toro
> > portions of Tuna, had a fish expert explaining how the use of the name
> > "tuna" was misleading since the fish has no relation to the tuna family,
> > but they pointed out that under Japanese law it serving it is prohibited
for
> > the digestion problems that we have all heard of. In Japan the fish is
> > called Haremutsu (also aburabouzu) and they interviewed a Japanese
fisherman
> > who showed an example of the fish who stated that they throw back
whatever
> > they catch because they have no market value.
> >
> > I was rather surprised that this topic wasn't covered by news earlier
since
> > I think "White Tuna" has been around in the US for at least 5 years? 10?
It
> > also amazes me that
> > here is a fish that even Japan prohibits from consumption
> > and yet in the US it is not.
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> This is just the topic this group needs when posts get flat lol!
>
> It is extremely curious about the term "popularity." If escolar caused
> this problem of gastro distress in the majority, then they would be a
> strange group indeed making it a popular experience.

Clearly it does not cause this digestion problem in the majority.
But it does affect some people.
It seems the fish was banned by the US FDA in 1990 but
then reversed because the fish was found to not be "toxic".
From a 2002 news article:
http://www.nbc4.tv/newslinks/1773988/detail.html

> So it would seem to me, either the oceans are drying up and fish
> marketers need to push everything or it's not a common shared experience.
>

Both.

> I have tried it, albeit in small amounts due to what I've read, and
> found it tasty with no side effects. I do find it a bit pricey, though.

I have tried it also, and I did find it tasty, similar to Toro in it's
fattiness.
But it is certainly a "Non-Traditional" ingredient.

Musashi (burp)