"carlDOTwest" > wrote in message =
...

> Sounds like you've worked out a system like mine:
> http://lumpymuffins.home.comcast.net...h/NoWaste.html

Hey, that is neat!

Now why can't we persuade Roy and the rest of the long-winded
SD philosophers and poets to render their comments and proposals
in such concise and inflatable form.

--
DickA

"carlDOTwest" > wrote in message =
...

> Sounds like you've worked out a system like mine:
> http://lumpymuffins.home.comcast.net...h/NoWaste.html

Hey, that is neat!

Now why can't we persuade Roy and the rest of the long-winded
SD philosophers and poets to render their comments and proposals
in such concise and inflatable form.

--
DickA

"carlDOTwest" > wrote in message =
...

> Sounds like you've worked out a system like mine:
> http://lumpymuffins.home.comcast.net...h/NoWaste.html

Hey, that is neat!

Now why can't we persuade Roy and the rest of the long-winded
SD philosophers and poets to render their comments and proposals
in such concise and inflatable form.

--
DickA

"Roy" > wrote in news:1111874578.947093.213790
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>>In any event the technique I am using now gives me great bread with
> sour
>>taste, good crust, and good leavening in a reasonable time. The only
> problem
>>is that after 24 hours the bread has degraded considerably from what
> it was
>>during the first few hours.
>
>
>>Bill
>
> Your bread stales faster? if your bread has lots of crack grains it
> will gradually absorb all the moisture from the large amount of
> starter you used and hours after your bread has been baked you will
> end up with a dry textured bread that has some similarity to stale
> bread. It was done properly considering the slow hydration
> characteristics of mixed grain breads it will come out still good after
> several hours or more.
> I think you better moisten the cracked wheat mix and let it hydrate
> for some time before adding the rest of the ingredients to it to form
> a dough.
> If you do not add water to the dough but just rely on the liquid
> starter to moisten it you had to add some flour or you have to use a
> firmer starer instead to attain the desired dough consistency.
> ..Then you have an allowance for the moistuer to be added to the
> cracked grain mix.
> Roy
>

Hey, Roy, how long would you recommend soaking the cracked wheat before
kneading it in? How do you account for the moisture of the hydrated
cracked wheat in the water requirement of the recipe?

Bill, Samartha has commented that bread starts going stale as soon as you
remove it from the oven. Well, maybe it starts as soon as it cools.

I've found it wise to seal any extra loaves in heavy plastic as soon as
they're cool and pop them in the freezer. I've done the same with half a
loaf when I know I won't polish off the full loaf in a day or two.

Freezing the bread is an excellent strategy for people who like to bake a
week or two's bread, or who travel. When you're away from home and
yearning for a bite of sourdough bread, you can have the wife Fed-Ex you
a loaf. It's a tad expensive, but when money is no object...

Gonorio

"Dick Adams" > wrote in
:

>
> "Roy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>> ... I have seen natural sourdoughs leavened with the
>> final dough flour to starter ratio of 55/45 and it really ferments
>> and proof really fast as if yeast was added; when the fact is ii was
>> just 100% naturally leavened! ...
>
> Aha!
>
> Could that be taken to mean that the "sponge" method can be applied
> to sourdough baking?
>

I have been making sourdough bread for several years exclusively using the
sponge method. Without it, I'd have to add some starter, then let the
bread sit and rise for a day in order to develop a tang when baked. By that
time, unless the temperature is quite cool, the yeast's rising power might
have become depleted before the dough enters the oven.

The point is that making the sponge allow the tang to develop, owing to
bacteria growth, and that must be balanced with the yeast's rising
potential.

Samartha's nicely documented tripling technique of growing a sourdough
sponge over day and night is one sponge method. Another is simply making a
huge batch of starter, stashing some of it to be used as future starter,
and using the rest with an equal weight of flour to make the loaf dough.
And of course, one might say that kneading a small amount of starter into
the dough, then letting it rise a long time, produces yet another kind of
sponge.

In the end, all risen bread is a sponge of some kind.

Gonorio

>Hey, Roy, how long would you recommend soaking the cracked wheat
before
>kneading it in?

Ola Gonorio ( el mucho)Dineri<g>?
I have already stated it in my previous posts; please try to review it.

> How do you account for the moisture of the hydrated
>cracked wheat in the water requirement of the recipe?

A baker need not worry being precise in quantifying the amount of
water in the soaked grain in the same way an accountant does in
balancing his books to be accurate to a cent.<g>
Here ....Its just based on pure commonsense......And also unsoaked
grains present in the bread is hard for the teeth to chew and can
help abrade the tooth enamel.
You do not soak the grain and just add it to the dough then you, then
you will end up with a dough that dries faster due to moisture
migration (from the dough to the seeds); but if you pre soak the
grains then the so called moisture transfer will be minimized (if
not prevented).

>Bill, Samartha has commented that bread starts going stale as soon as
you
>remove it from the oven.

That is what every freshly baked bread does following the
thermodynamic law or entropy<g>.There are no exceptions.
Therefore the only possible way the baker does, is to slow the staling
process by producing a moist and good textured bread..

A properly baked multi grain bread made from a dough with presoaked
grains stays moist longer than a similar bread dough that uses the
grains without being prehydrated.
Going back to the original issue....
The problem here is that the original poster question is how comes his
bread (appear to ) feel and taste stale after a few hours when others
don't.
Therefore its not actually stale but drier in texture which can be
comparable to a stale bread.
Therefore I suggest a means to improve its texture.
Ciao

Roy

"Roy" > wrote in news:1112381274.728036.118180
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>
>>Hey, Roy, how long would you recommend soaking the cracked wheat
> before
>>kneading it in?
>
> Ola Gonorio ( el mucho)Dineri<g>?

Ole'. Dineri? Va bene.


> The problem here is that the original poster question is how comes his
> bread (appear to ) feel and taste stale after a few hours when others
> don't.
> Therefore its not actually stale but drier in texture which can be
> comparable to a stale bread.
> Therefore I suggest a means to improve its texture.
> Ciao
>
> Roy
>
>

Thanks. I often put raw sunflower seeds in my dough because my bride likes
it that way. I've never soaked them, and it is obvious that they do indeed
leech moisture from the dough, for they are never crunchy. But the dough
isn't excessively dry. I conclude from that that the sunflower seeds are
already moist. Well, the raw seeds present no resistance when I bite into
them, I might crack a tooth biting into a dry wheat berry because they are
both dry and hard. So, I see your point. I'm guessing an overnight soak
of cracked wheat would do the trick. And, I;ll still have my teeth after
munching a loaf.

Ciao, Bello.

Gonorio

Hmmn its okay for the grains to have an overnight soak. before usimg
it on the dough..
Caio

in article , Gonorio Dineri at
wrote on 4/1/05 9:22 AM:

> Hey, Roy, how long would you recommend soaking the cracked wheat before
> kneading it in? How do you account for the moisture of the hydrated
> cracked wheat in the water requirement of the recipe?
>
> Bill, Samartha has commented that bread starts going stale as soon as you
> remove it from the oven. Well, maybe it starts as soon as it cools.
>
> I've found it wise to seal any extra loaves in heavy plastic as soon as
> they're cool and pop them in the freezer. I've done the same with half a
> loaf when I know I won't polish off the full loaf in a day or two.
>
> Freezing the bread is an excellent strategy for people who like to bake a
> week or two's bread, or who travel. When you're away from home and
> yearning for a bite of sourdough bread, you can have the wife Fed-Ex you
> a loaf. It's a tad expensive, but when money is no object...

I just baked another sourdough bread using the same technique. It rose most
of the way overnight. I gave the dough more time in a warmed over oven. All
in all, I estimate an increase of the volume to be a factor of four.

Part of what I like about my bread is the crunchyness of the seeds and
cracked grain that I add. Would soaking these additions cause the crunchies
to dissappear? Even if the bread does go downhill somewhat, a little bit of
toasting makes it almost new again. And by the time toasting does not help,
the bread is mostly gone.

Bill