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Repeating Rifle 26-03-2005 02:45 AM

Another experiment
 
I had posted previously on how I was using all of my starter except for what
stuck to the container and how I was using those remains for my next batch
of starter using a cup each of water and flour. This has been working out
well for me.

Krusteaze sells six-packs of assorted bread mixes. This time, I took one of
those packs, cracked wheat, to bake sourdough bread.

Again I used all my starter and prepared a new batch. The instructions
called for 1 cup of water, but I added an extra 2.5 fl oz for the flour
aready in my starter. I added another 2 TBS cracked wheat before kneading in
my bread machine. I stopped the knead before the dough got very sticky. I
put the dough into a ceramic bread pan and stabbed the hell out of it. It
being a nice sunny day, I put the pan in my greenhouse and let it rise for a
few hours checking on it at intervals. When it appeared right, I baked it.

In one word: Delicious.

I really believe that using all of the starter for a loaf rather than a
tablespoon or two has resulted in a better and faster leavening starter.
Moreover, I put the starter in my refrigerator before the flour has been
fully eaten.

Bill


Dick Adams 26-03-2005 07:33 PM


"Repeating Rifle" wrote in message
...

Krusteaze sells six-packs of assorted bread mixes.=20
This time, I took one of those packs, cracked wheat,=20
to bake sourdough bread.


Again I used all my starter and prepared a new batch.=20
The instructions called for 1 cup of water, but I added=20
an extra 2.5 fl oz for the flour already in my starter.


So you are using your starter to make SD from Krusteaz=20
cracked-wheat BM mix? Did you know that Krusteaz
is selling BM mixes that already make SD?

Moreover, I put the starter in my refrigerator before the=20
flour has been fully eaten.


Who is eating the flour?

With you mentions of Krusteaz mixes, you are making us nostalgic
for "Billy Fish" AKA "Fishy Bill" who posted at r.f.s. about Krusteaz
BM mixes in bygone years. Perhaps you would be interested in=20
searching out some of his posts in the Google archive?=20

--
DickA


Dick Adams 26-03-2005 07:33 PM


"Repeating Rifle" wrote in message
...

Krusteaze sells six-packs of assorted bread mixes.=20
This time, I took one of those packs, cracked wheat,=20
to bake sourdough bread.


Again I used all my starter and prepared a new batch.=20
The instructions called for 1 cup of water, but I added=20
an extra 2.5 fl oz for the flour already in my starter.


So you are using your starter to make SD from Krusteaz=20
cracked-wheat BM mix? Did you know that Krusteaz
is selling BM mixes that already make SD?

Moreover, I put the starter in my refrigerator before the=20
flour has been fully eaten.


Who is eating the flour?

With you mentions of Krusteaz mixes, you are making us nostalgic
for "Billy Fish" AKA "Fishy Bill" who posted at r.f.s. about Krusteaz
BM mixes in bygone years. Perhaps you would be interested in=20
searching out some of his posts in the Google archive?=20

--
DickA


Repeating Rifle 26-03-2005 09:10 PM

in article , Dick
Adams at wrote on 3/26/05 11:33 AM:


"Repeating Rifle" wrote in message
...

Krusteaze sells six-packs of assorted bread mixes.
This time, I took one of those packs, cracked wheat,
to bake sourdough bread.


Again I used all my starter and prepared a new batch.
The instructions called for 1 cup of water, but I added
an extra 2.5 fl oz for the flour already in my starter.


So you are using your starter to make SD from Krusteaz
cracked-wheat BM mix? Did you know that Krusteaz
is selling BM mixes that already make SD?


I am and I know respectively. Krusteaze's sourdough is faux sourdough using
added acids, and horrors, COMMERCIAL YEAST.

Moreover, I put the starter in my refrigerator before the
flour has been fully eaten.


Who is eating the flour?


Various yeasties and bacterial beasties.

With you mentions of Krusteaz mixes, you are making us nostalgic
for "Billy Fish" AKA "Fishy Bill" who posted at r.f.s. about Krusteaz
BM mixes in bygone years. Perhaps you would be interested in
searching out some of his posts in the Google archive?


I am exposed! Various changes in ISPs prevented me from using my old name.
And I now thought that you would be pleased with me for avoiding store
bought yeast.

In any event the technique I am using now gives me great bread with sour
taste, good crust, and good leavening in a reasonable time. The only problem
is that after 24 hours the bread has degraded considerably from what it was
during the first few hours.

Bill

--
DickA



Roy 26-03-2005 10:02 PM

In any event the technique I am using now gives me great bread with
sour
taste, good crust, and good leavening in a reasonable time. The only

problem
is that after 24 hours the bread has degraded considerably from what

it was
during the first few hours.



Bill


Your bread stales faster? if your bread has lots of crack grains it
will gradually absorb all the moisture from the large amount of
starter you used and hours after your bread has been baked you will
end up with a dry textured bread that has some similarity to stale
bread. It was done properly considering the slow hydration
characteristics of mixed grain breads it will come out still good after
several hours or more.
I think you better moisten the cracked wheat mix and let it hydrate
for some time before adding the rest of the ingredients to it to form
a dough.
If you do not add water to the dough but just rely on the liquid
starter to moisten it you had to add some flour or you have to use a
firmer starer instead to attain the desired dough consistency.
...Then you have an allowance for the moistuer to be added to the
cracked grain mix.
Roy


gw 27-03-2005 04:04 AM

I had posted previously on how I was using all of my starter except for
what
stuck to the container and how I was using those remains for my next batch
of starter using a cup each of water and flour.

I am somewhat horrified here, only two to three tablespoons of starter per
loaf?
I have to make refreshers of two cups or more, and then put half of that (at
least a cup plus refresher of another cup of flour and water) away in the
fridge!

How does one make a loaf of bread without extra yeast with only a tablespoon
of starter?
ye gods and little fishes, no wonder my loaves come out strange!
gw



gw 27-03-2005 04:04 AM

I had posted previously on how I was using all of my starter except for
what
stuck to the container and how I was using those remains for my next batch
of starter using a cup each of water and flour.

I am somewhat horrified here, only two to three tablespoons of starter per
loaf?
I have to make refreshers of two cups or more, and then put half of that (at
least a cup plus refresher of another cup of flour and water) away in the
fridge!

How does one make a loaf of bread without extra yeast with only a tablespoon
of starter?
ye gods and little fishes, no wonder my loaves come out strange!
gw



Samartha Deva 27-03-2005 04:36 AM

gw wrote:
I had posted previously on how I was using all of my starter except for
what
stuck to the container and how I was using those remains for my next batch
of starter using a cup each of water and flour.

I am somewhat horrified here, only two to three tablespoons of starter per
loaf?


I think you get this wrong.

He uses the old container with remains to grow the starter for the next
batch.

I think he described it before what amounts he uses - probably in the
cup or multiples thereof range.


I have to make refreshers of two cups or more, and then put half of that (at
least a cup plus refresher of another cup of flour and water) away in the
fridge!

How does one make a loaf of bread without extra yeast with only a tablespoon
of starter?


Only with multiple refreshments or an extra long rising time.

No need to freak.

Samartha





Samartha Deva 27-03-2005 04:36 AM

gw wrote:
I had posted previously on how I was using all of my starter except for
what
stuck to the container and how I was using those remains for my next batch
of starter using a cup each of water and flour.

I am somewhat horrified here, only two to three tablespoons of starter per
loaf?


I think you get this wrong.

He uses the old container with remains to grow the starter for the next
batch.

I think he described it before what amounts he uses - probably in the
cup or multiples thereof range.


I have to make refreshers of two cups or more, and then put half of that (at
least a cup plus refresher of another cup of flour and water) away in the
fridge!

How does one make a loaf of bread without extra yeast with only a tablespoon
of starter?


Only with multiple refreshments or an extra long rising time.

No need to freak.

Samartha





Repeating Rifle 27-03-2005 05:39 AM

in article
,
Samartha Deva at
wrote on 3/26/05 7:36
PM:

I think you get this wrong.

He uses the old container with remains to grow the starter for the next
batch.

I think he described it before what amounts he uses - probably in the
cup or multiples thereof range.


I have to make refreshers of two cups or more, and then put half of that (at
least a cup plus refresher of another cup of flour and water) away in the
fridge!

How does one make a loaf of bread without extra yeast with only a tablespoon
of starter?


That indeed is what I do. The starter clinging to the container is all I use
to get the next batch of starter going. By having a lot of starter still
fermenting, the leavening time is greatly reduced compared to using only a
few tablespoons of startre that has been out of the fridge for 24 hours or
more.
Only with multiple refreshments or an extra long rising time.

No need to freak.

Samartha



Repeating Rifle 27-03-2005 05:39 AM

in article
,
Samartha Deva at
wrote on 3/26/05 7:36
PM:

I think you get this wrong.

He uses the old container with remains to grow the starter for the next
batch.

I think he described it before what amounts he uses - probably in the
cup or multiples thereof range.


I have to make refreshers of two cups or more, and then put half of that (at
least a cup plus refresher of another cup of flour and water) away in the
fridge!

How does one make a loaf of bread without extra yeast with only a tablespoon
of starter?


That indeed is what I do. The starter clinging to the container is all I use
to get the next batch of starter going. By having a lot of starter still
fermenting, the leavening time is greatly reduced compared to using only a
few tablespoons of startre that has been out of the fridge for 24 hours or
more.
Only with multiple refreshments or an extra long rising time.

No need to freak.

Samartha



Roy 27-03-2005 06:57 AM



By having a lot of starter still
fermenting, the leavening time is greatly reduced compared to using

only a
few tablespoons of startre that has been out of the fridge for 24

hours or
more.


You are right there I have seen natural sourdoughs leavened with the
final dough flour to starter ratio of 55/45 and it really ferments
and proof really fast as if yeast was added; when the fact is ii was
just 100% naturally leavened!
The bread was very good , iI they want to add mixed whole gtains
such as the five or seven grain variety they have to presoak the grain
well for several hours to overnight preferably in the cold room.
Then when they had finished mixing the bread dough they incorporate the
soaked grains for a few minutes at low speed.


Roy


Roy 27-03-2005 06:57 AM



By having a lot of starter still
fermenting, the leavening time is greatly reduced compared to using

only a
few tablespoons of startre that has been out of the fridge for 24

hours or
more.


You are right there I have seen natural sourdoughs leavened with the
final dough flour to starter ratio of 55/45 and it really ferments
and proof really fast as if yeast was added; when the fact is ii was
just 100% naturally leavened!
The bread was very good , iI they want to add mixed whole gtains
such as the five or seven grain variety they have to presoak the grain
well for several hours to overnight preferably in the cold room.
Then when they had finished mixing the bread dough they incorporate the
soaked grains for a few minutes at low speed.


Roy


Dick Adams 27-03-2005 02:10 PM


"Roy" wrote in message =
oups.com...

... I have seen natural sourdoughs leavened with the
final dough flour to starter ratio of 55/45 and it really ferments
and proof really fast as if yeast was added; when the fact is ii was
just 100% naturally leavened! ...


Aha!

Could that be taken to mean that the "sponge" method can be applied
to sourdough baking?


Dick Adams 27-03-2005 02:10 PM


"Roy" wrote in message =
oups.com...

... I have seen natural sourdoughs leavened with the
final dough flour to starter ratio of 55/45 and it really ferments
and proof really fast as if yeast was added; when the fact is ii was
just 100% naturally leavened! ...


Aha!

Could that be taken to mean that the "sponge" method can be applied
to sourdough baking?



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