I ask because as an Australian who speaks reasonably fluent American
English :-) I know that the same term does not mean the same thing in
each country. Australian "tomato sauce" is what the Americans call
"ketchup"; whereas what the Americans call "tomato sauce" would be
called "pasta sauce" by Australians. Who was it who first said, "Two
countries divided by a single language"? :-)
Anyway, Lisa Kendall, if you're still here and want a recipe for
something to pour on your Four 'n' Twenty pie, grab a copy of "The CWA
Cookery Book and Household Hints" (likely in your library system) and
try the Tomato Sauce No 1 recipe. Tips: If you're going to do a lot,
go to a continental store and buy a "Passe-Pomodoro", a kind of hand
cranked machine that sieves all the seeds and skins out of the cooked
tomatoes and apples. Makes what could be a tedious job with a hand
sieve take mere minutes. Then, after you've sieved it, return the
sauce to a clean pot and simmer even more to make it really thick.
Yum, yum, yum.
CJ

wrote in message >. ..
> I ask because as an Australian who speaks reasonably fluent American
> English :-) I know that the same term does not mean the same thing in
> each country. Australian "tomato sauce" is what the Americans call
> "ketchup"; whereas what the Americans call "tomato sauce" would be
> called "pasta sauce" by Australians. Who was it who first said, "Two
> countries divided by a single language"? :-)

When we first moved to Australia in the mid 60's from the USA I made a
large batch of pasta for some neighbors who normally wouldn't eat it
as it was considered a bit too foreign. for the sauce i got a large
bottle of tomato sauce which was really a sweet ketchup, what a
disaster.
Cheers Ed

> Anyway, Lisa Kendall, if you're still here and want a recipe for
> something to pour on your Four 'n' Twenty pie, grab a copy of "The CWA
> Cookery Book and Household Hints" (likely in your library system) and
> try the Tomato Sauce No 1 recipe. Tips: If you're going to do a lot,
> go to a continental store and buy a "Passe-Pomodoro", a kind of hand
> cranked machine that sieves all the seeds and skins out of the cooked
> tomatoes and apples. Makes what could be a tedious job with a hand
> sieve take mere minutes. Then, after you've sieved it, return the
> sauce to a clean pot and simmer even more to make it really thick.
> Yum, yum, yum.
> CJ

wrote:

wrote in message >. ..
>> I ask because as an Australian who speaks reasonably fluent American
>> English :-) I know that the same term does not mean the same thing in
>> each country. Australian "tomato sauce" is what the Americans call
>> "ketchup"; whereas what the Americans call "tomato sauce" would be
>> called "pasta sauce" by Australians. Who was it who first said, "Two
>> countries divided by a single language"? :-)
>
>
I'm sure glad someone started this thread.
Upfront admission: I usually get wrapped around the axle until
everyone around me says "geeze, you're thinking too much about this"
but ...
If I go to the supermarket and look for "tomato sauce" I get a can of
thick tomato something, which (in my limited experience) seems to form
a base for further work.
Now Alton Brown (TV cook) makes what he calls a tomato sauce which is
outstanding: major steps were the use of aromatics and the saving and
thickening of the tomato liquid. This sauce can be added as is (well,
with a quick whirl in the blender or not) over pasta, over meatballs,
over chicken.
It would have made more sense to me for him to have called this
something like a "General Purpose tomato-based topping" as opposed to
"tomato sauce".
Anyone else scratching their heads over "tomato sauce"? - Mike

Well, Mike, I gave up trying to figure out what "tomato sauce" means as
applied to so many different countries and cultures. I know what it
means to me so I just read the labels (if I actually have to buy the
stuff) until I find the one I want.

When I was learning to can, etc. tomato sauce was simply plain ripe
tomatoes put through the strainer (a Squeezo, IIRC) and simply simmered
to the desired thickness. Occ. a touch of salt was added, but nothing
else. It was then modified with seasoning, etc. at the time of use for
whatever we were cooking.

Definitely is interesting, though, to see such a basic product refered
to in so many different styles. Sort of the same thing with "ketchup,
catsup, etc." When it's made with grapes, or carrots, or other fruits
it was still called a "ketchup" 60 - 70 years ago. Now days, its
usually referred to as a sauce.

Language is definitely an interesting aspect of food history.

Kacey

Michael Horowitz wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
wrote in message >. ..
>>
>>>I ask because as an Australian who speaks reasonably fluent American
>>>English :-) I know that the same term does not mean the same thing in
>>>each country. Australian "tomato sauce" is what the Americans call
>>>"ketchup"; whereas what the Americans call "tomato sauce" would be
>>>called "pasta sauce" by Australians. Who was it who first said, "Two
>>>countries divided by a single language"? :-)
>>
>>
> I'm sure glad someone started this thread.
> Upfront admission: I usually get wrapped around the axle until
> everyone around me says "geeze, you're thinking too much about this"
> but ...
> If I go to the supermarket and look for "tomato sauce" I get a can of
> thick tomato something, which (in my limited experience) seems to form
> a base for further work.
> Now Alton Brown (TV cook) makes what he calls a tomato sauce which is
> outstanding: major steps were the use of aromatics and the saving and
> thickening of the tomato liquid. This sauce can be added as is (well,
> with a quick whirl in the blender or not) over pasta, over meatballs,
> over chicken.
> It would have made more sense to me for him to have called this
> something like a "General Purpose tomato-based topping" as opposed to
> "tomato sauce".
> Anyone else scratching their heads over "tomato sauce"? - Mike

--
Outgoing messages checked with Norton Antivirus 2003.

il Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:46:06 -0500, Michael Horowitz ha scritto:

> wrote:
>
> wrote in message
>. ..
> >> I ask because as an Australian who speaks reasonably fluent American
> >> English :-) I know that the same term does not mean the same thing in
> >> each country. Australian "tomato sauce" is what the Americans call
> >> "ketchup"; whereas what the Americans call "tomato sauce" would be
> >> called "pasta sauce" by Australians. Who was it who first said, "Two
> >> countries divided by a single language"? :-)
> >
> >
> I'm sure glad someone started this thread.
> Upfront admission: I usually get wrapped around the axle until
> everyone around me says "geeze, you're thinking too much about this"
> but ...
> If I go to the supermarket and look for "tomato sauce" I get a can of
> thick tomato something, which (in my limited experience) seems to form
> a base for further work.
> Now Alton Brown (TV cook) makes what he calls a tomato sauce which is
> outstanding: major steps were the use of aromatics and the saving and
> thickening of the tomato liquid. This sauce can be added as is (well,
> with a quick whirl in the blender or not) over pasta, over meatballs,
> over chicken.
> It would have made more sense to me for him to have called this
> something like a "General Purpose tomato-based topping" as opposed to
> "tomato sauce".
> Anyone else scratching their heads over "tomato sauce"? - Mike

Tomato sauce in New zealand is a different tasting thing to tomato
puree or paste, which is a more modern product (relatively speaking)
probably from italy in concept . I find commercial tomato sauce is
probably like US ketchup, with the usual variations due to cultural
tastebuds. Then we call the rest 'pasta sauces', which are more
tomatoey than a 'tomato sauce', not counting the ones that have no
tomatoes...
If I had any in the cupboard, I'd look at the ingredients label for
you, but I generally hate tomato sauce/ketchup and stick to paste,
which is just tomatoes and citric acid. It is the paste I spread on
pizzas.

All sauces mean something else to a chef I imagine. Tomato based
topping sounds unappetising ... ;-)
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

Blimey mate... all this is getting complex ... the first thing to
remember is that all 'preserved' products are just that, a way of
keeping the product and/or excesses for use throughout the year.

In the case of Tomato pastes... these have been done for many many years
and in most Mediterranean countries, to the shock horror of many, the
stuff was cooked down till it was thick then spread onto large wooden
tables and further concentrated in the suns rays. This then was a way of
keeping large amounts of tomato and using it for a variety of different
things.

In the case of Sugo, Pasatta etc etc... this is again a method of
keeping a tomato that was simple put through a machine that (mostly)
separated the skins and pips and left the pulp to be cooked down. In
some cases this was not done and the tomatoes just minced and the
resulting slush cooked and hot bottled, often (as is still the case
today) in beer bottles or what ever bottle could be obtained. It was
then used for a million different recipes in a many different countries
kitchens.

In the case of Tomato Sauce (UK) Tomato Ketchup (USA) Tomato Sauce
(Aust/NZ) and so on.,.. this is a sauce that is (hopefully) tomatoes
with maybe onion, garlic, sugar and spices cooked in vinegar as the
preserve and dolloped (in the case of the UK) on practically everything.
Sadly the current batch of manufacturers see no need to use Vinegar
anymore and think that acetic acid and yes, Tomato paste will do the
trick just nicely. Sad, so dammed sad.

As to the etimology of Ketchup, Catsup etc... I think it was actually
Indonesian, but don't really care... by the way, there is a great little
preserve done in India (Gujarrat) called Kasundi that is really
delicious, hot and spicy and sooooo tasty.

Just keep the traditions and standards alive... we owe that much to the
next generation if we can.

Peter Watson.

Loki wrote:
> il Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:46:06 -0500, Michael Horowitz ha scritto:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>
wrote in message
>
> >. ..
>
>>>>I ask because as an Australian who speaks reasonably fluent American
>>>>English :-) I know that the same term does not mean the same thing in
>>>>each country. Australian "tomato sauce" is what the Americans call
>>>>"ketchup"; whereas what the Americans call "tomato sauce" would be
>>>>called "pasta sauce" by Australians. Who was it who first said, "Two
>>>>countries divided by a single language"? :-)
>>>
>>>
>>I'm sure glad someone started this thread.
>>Upfront admission: I usually get wrapped around the axle until
>>everyone around me says "geeze, you're thinking too much about this"
>>but ...
>>If I go to the supermarket and look for "tomato sauce" I get a can of
>>thick tomato something, which (in my limited experience) seems to form
>>a base for further work.
>>Now Alton Brown (TV cook) makes what he calls a tomato sauce which is
>>outstanding: major steps were the use of aromatics and the saving and
>>thickening of the tomato liquid. This sauce can be added as is (well,
>>with a quick whirl in the blender or not) over pasta, over meatballs,
>>over chicken.
>>It would have made more sense to me for him to have called this
>>something like a "General Purpose tomato-based topping" as opposed to
>>"tomato sauce".
>>Anyone else scratching their heads over "tomato sauce"? - Mike
>
>
> Tomato sauce in New zealand is a different tasting thing to tomato
> puree or paste, which is a more modern product (relatively speaking)
> probably from italy in concept . I find commercial tomato sauce is
> probably like US ketchup, with the usual variations due to cultural
> tastebuds. Then we call the rest 'pasta sauces', which are more
> tomatoey than a 'tomato sauce', not counting the ones that have no
> tomatoes...
> If I had any in the cupboard, I'd look at the ingredients label for
> you, but I generally hate tomato sauce/ketchup and stick to paste,
> which is just tomatoes and citric acid. It is the paste I spread on
> pizzas.
>
> All sauces mean something else to a chef I imagine. Tomato based
> topping sounds unappetising ... ;-)