"Frogleg" > wrote in message
...

> >When ever I see lobster here, it makes me wonder about the first guy
> >who picked on of these up on the coast of Maine or somewhere, and
> >decided to eat it.

> Never mind lobsters, what about raw oysters? I love 'em, but I can
> easily imagine gnawing tree bark in preference to being the first
> person to try one.

I used to wonder the same thing about blue cheese...

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://kanyak.com

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:47:07 +0200, "Opinicus" >
wrote:

>"Frogleg" > wrote

>> Never mind lobsters, what about raw oysters? I love 'em, but I can
>> easily imagine gnawing tree bark in preference to being the first
>> person to try one.
>
>I used to wonder the same thing about blue cheese...

Indeed. That's an item that occurred to me, too. Wasn't moldy bread
(penicillin) slapped on medieval battle wounds? Yet many bread molds
are toxic. How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
molded cheddar to the supermarket?

In article >, Frogleg
> wrote:

> Wasn't moldy bread
> (penicillin) slapped on medieval battle wounds?

Was it? Can you give documentation?

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In article >, Frogleg
> wrote:

> Yet many bread molds
> are toxic.

Which?

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

>> Yet many bread molds are toxic.
> Which?

from M.D. Northolt & P.S.S. Soentoko, "Fungal growth on foodstuffs
related to mycotoxin contamination", in Samson, Hoekstra & van
Oorschut (eds), _Introduction to Food-Borne Fungi_, 1984:

Penicillium brevicompactum
Penicillium roqueforti
Penicillium verrucosum var. cyclopium
Penicillium verrucosum var. verrucosum

They mention only that these are a significant source of mycotoxin
contamination, not what the effects of the toxins are. Some of the
toxins are well-known, others I've never heard of before.

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
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In article >, bogus address
> wrote:

> >> Yet many bread molds are toxic.
> > Which?
>
> from M.D. Northolt & P.S.S. Soentoko, "Fungal growth on foodstuffs
> related to mycotoxin contamination", in Samson, Hoekstra & van
> Oorschut (eds), _Introduction to Food-Borne Fungi_, 1984:
>
> Penicillium brevicompactum
> Penicillium roqueforti
Isn't that the one in Roquefort cheese? Doesn't seem to have done me
much harm.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In article >, Lazarus
Cooke > wrote:

> Penicillium roqueforti

See http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/biotech/fra/fra008.htm

2. Risks to Humans

P. roqueforti is a benign, nonpathogenic organism. Among
the literature reviewed for this assessment, there has been only
one reported case of pathogenicity.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[toxic moulds in bread]
>> Penicillium roqueforti
> See http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/biotech/fra/fra008.htm
> P. roqueforti is a benign, nonpathogenic organism. Among
> the literature reviewed for this assessment, there has been only
> one reported case of pathogenicity.

The others were probably more important - P. verrucosum produces
citrinin and ochratoxin-A, which are implicated in Balkan epidemic
nephropathy.

Rye and maize are more susceptible to mycotoxin contamination than
wheat or wheat products, its seems. But since the rate of toxin
production varies with storage conditions, and does not always
correlate with fungal growth rate, it doesn't seem that anyone can
predict the real extent of these hazards. There is more on this
in P.G. Mantle, "Current views on the occurrence and significance
of Penicillium toxins", in _Filamentous Fungi in Foods and Feeds_,
supplement of the _Journal of Applied Bacteriology_, volume 67, 1989.

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
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In article >,
Frogleg > wrote:
[... discussion of how someone first tried various foods. ...]
= How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
= molded cheddar to the supermarket?

Interesting question. I've wondered about cheese mold. Is all
cheese mold safe to eat or are there some that are not (as you
commented about bread molds)?


--
Kind regards,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Edgewood, NM "I'm the NRA!"
www.swcp.com/~crs USA Life Member since 1965

All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
back.

Of course, some people are allergic to molds.


--
-Mark H. Zanger
author, The American History Cookbook, The American Ethnic Cookbook for
Students
www.ethnicook.com
www.historycook.com


"Charlie Sorsby" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Frogleg > wrote:
> [... discussion of how someone first tried various foods. ...]
> = How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
> = molded cheddar to the supermarket?
>
> Interesting question. I've wondered about cheese mold. Is all
> cheese mold safe to eat or are there some that are not (as you
> commented about bread molds)?
>
>
> --
> Kind regards,
>
> Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Edgewood, NM "I'm the NRA!"
> www.swcp.com/~crs USA Life Member since 1965

In article <tdJ8c.9281$JO3.15250@attbi_s04>, Mark Zanger
> wrote:

> All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
> discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
> back.
>
> Of course, some people are allergic to molds.

Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
exception of peanut are consdered safe.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

> In article <tdJ8c.9281$JO3.15250@attbi_s04>, Mark Zanger
> > wrote:
>
>>All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
>>discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
>>back.
>>
>>Of course, some people are allergic to molds.
>
> Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
> exception of peanut are consdered safe.

Ergot on rye?

Pastorio

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:15:47 -0500, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:

>Lazarus Cooke wrote:
>
>> In article <tdJ8c.9281$JO3.15250@attbi_s04>, Mark Zanger
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
>>>discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
>>>back.
>>>
>>>Of course, some people are allergic to molds.
>>
>> Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
>> exception of peanut are consdered safe.
>
>Ergot on rye?

Yes.

"Ergot, caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, is a disease of
cereal crops and grasses....Human poisoning was common in Europe in
the Middle Ages when ergoty rye bread was often consumed."

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/pla...ops/pp551w.htm

Ergotamine is an abortifacient and a vaso-constrictor. Ergotamine
tartrate is the primary ingredient of LSD. Ergot poisoning from a
large dose includes convulsions, halucinations and bizarre behaviour.
Smaller repeated doses may result in gangrene.

>> All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
>> discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a
>> few years back.
>> Of course, some people are allergic to molds.
> Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
> exception of peanut are consdered safe.

Nobody who's looked at the literature in the last 20 years would consider
that way. Aflatoxin grows pretty well in maize, in which form it carries
through into the milk of corn-fed cattle, as the only slightly less toxic
substance aflatoxin-M. This is the one responsible for most aflatoxin
outbreaks in the US; aflatoxin on peanuts is mainly a problem when the
nuts are stored in tropical conditions, no growing area in the US gets
hot enough.

There is also zearalenone (immensely powerful oestrogen analogue; in
pigs it causes bizarre genital deformities in utero and is probably
not much less dangerous for humans), the ergot alkaloids on rye, and
the mycotoxins responsible for Balkan epidemic nephropathy (I forget
the exact death toll for that but in some years it's scarily high).

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
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