Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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Old 15-12-2005, 07:33 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Andrew Dalby
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

I'd be glad of other opinions on this. On this page

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/extra/SalammboFeast.html

I've put the French text and two English translations of the
Carthaginian Feast which is the first scene in Flaubert's Salammbo
(1862). My questions:

Did Flaubert's research pay off? Is this feast realistic? How well have
the translators managed? Incidentally, does anyone fancy recreating
this scene today?

A few initial comments/queries: I don't know anything about the
force-fed puppies with pink bristles (and I'm not sure if I want to);
does anyone? I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct
French spelling, incidentally) Flaubert means silphium? What is
Tamrapanni wood?

Andrew


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Old 16-12-2005, 02:10 AM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Robin Carroll-Mann
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

On 15 Dec 2005 11:33:23 -0800, "Andrew Dalby"
wrote:

I'd be glad of other opinions on this. On this page

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/extra/SalammboFeast.html


What isTamrapanni wood?


According to the following web page, "Tamrapanni" can refer either to
Sri Lanka or to the area around the Tamrapanni River in South India.
http://www.buddhanet.net/bodh_gaya/bodh_gaya02.htm
If that's true, then a clearer translation might be "wood from
Tamrapanni" There are many possibilities: teak, ebony, rosewood...

Just speculation, but it may be a starting place for you.



Robin Carroll-Mann
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Old 16-12-2005, 01:28 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Andrew Dalby
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast


Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:
On 15 Dec 2005 11:33:23 -0800, "Andrew Dalby"
wrote:

I'd be glad of other opinions on this. On this page

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/extra/SalammboFeast.html


What isTamrapanni wood?


According to the following web page, "Tamrapanni" can refer either to
Sri Lanka or to the area around the Tamrapanni River in South India.
http://www.buddhanet.net/bodh_gaya/bodh_gaya02.htm
If that's true, then a clearer translation might be "wood from
Tamrapanni" There are many possibilities: teak, ebony, rosewood...

Just speculation, but it may be a starting place for you.



Robin Carroll-Mann


Thank you very much for that. Yes, I thought it sounded south-Indian
rather than African. So now I start exploring why Flaubert thought his
Cathaginians would have had it ...

Andrew

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Old 03-01-2006, 05:59 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Michael Kuettner
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast


"Andrew Dalby" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ups.com...

Hello,

I'd be glad of other opinions on this. On this page

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/extra/SalammboFeast.html

I've put the French text and two English translations of the
Carthaginian Feast which is the first scene in Flaubert's Salammbo
(1862). My questions:

Did Flaubert's research pay off? Is this feast realistic? How well have
the translators managed? Incidentally, does anyone fancy recreating
this scene today?

A few initial comments/queries: I don't know anything about the
force-fed puppies with pink bristles (and I'm not sure if I want to);
does anyone? I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct
French spelling, incidentally) Flaubert means silphium?


Ferula asafoetida is a member of the Apiaceae.
It stems from Eastern Iran and Afghanistan.
Asafoetida was an important spice in Roman and Medieval times;
nowadays it's hardly used anymore in Europe.
The taste reminds of garlic; but it's also very sharp and slightly bitter.
(The spice is made from the sap of the root).

snip

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner




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Old 03-01-2006, 10:24 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Tom Coleman
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

It's one of my staple spices for indian vegetarian recipes & I usually add
it to lentil dahls etc. Only a small pinch though.

It REALLY stinks though and is the only spice I keep in 2 containers !!
Available at most the larger supermarkets now - at least in the South East
of England.

Try http://www.theepicentre.com/Spices/asafetid.html for more info

Regards,
Tom


"Michael Kuettner" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Dalby" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...

Hello,

I'd be glad of other opinions on this. On this page

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/extra/SalammboFeast.html

I've put the French text and two English translations of the
Carthaginian Feast which is the first scene in Flaubert's Salammbo
(1862). My questions:

Did Flaubert's research pay off? Is this feast realistic? How well have
the translators managed? Incidentally, does anyone fancy recreating
this scene today?

A few initial comments/queries: I don't know anything about the
force-fed puppies with pink bristles (and I'm not sure if I want to);
does anyone? I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct
French spelling, incidentally) Flaubert means silphium?


Ferula asafoetida is a member of the Apiaceae.
It stems from Eastern Iran and Afghanistan.
Asafoetida was an important spice in Roman and Medieval times;
nowadays it's hardly used anymore in Europe.
The taste reminds of garlic; but it's also very sharp and slightly bitter.
(The spice is made from the sap of the root).

snip

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner








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Old 08-01-2006, 09:04 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Gary
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

Andrew,

Silphium became extinct in Roman times, due to over-harvesting, and
asafoetida was used as a substitute.

You can read more about this foul-smelling resin (it wasn't called
"divel's dreck" for nothing) at
http://www.hvinet.com/gallen/Asafoedita.html.

Gary



Andrew Dalby wrote:
I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct
French spelling, incidentally) Flaubert means silphium?


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Old 08-01-2006, 09:04 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Gary
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

Andrew,

Silphium became extinct in Roman times, due to over-harvesting, and
asafoetida was used as a substitute.

You can read more about this foul-smelling resin (it wasn't called
"divel's dreck" for nothing) at
http://www.hvinet.com/gallen/Asafoedita.html.

Gary



Andrew Dalby wrote:
I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct
French spelling, incidentally) Flaubert means silphium?


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Old 10-01-2006, 01:49 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Bob (this one)
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

Gary wrote:
Andrew,

Silphium became extinct in Roman times, due to over-harvesting, and
asafoetida was used as a substitute.


Here in the wilds of the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, old timers still
talk about their childhoods with parents making them wear little bags of
herbs around their necks to ward off illness. It's pronounced
"assafidity" hereabouts and the one constant observation is that the
bags and therefore the kids smelled bad. One man told me about his
little one-room school "where you couldn't hardly breathe for sinning
against your lungs..."

Pastorio

You can read more about this foul-smelling resin (it wasn't called
"divel's dreck" for nothing) at
http://www.hvinet.com/gallen/Asafoedita.html.

Gary

Andrew Dalby wrote:

I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct
French spelling, incidentally) Flaubert means silphium?

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Old 11-01-2006, 04:40 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Gary
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

I've heard about "assafidity bags," Bob -- and always suspected that
they prevented disease by assuring that no one would come within
sneezing distance of anyone wearing such things. I'm surprised that the
folks trying to peddle abstinence to teenagers having come up with the
strategy.

Gary

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Old 11-01-2006, 05:27 PM posted to rec.food.historic,soc.history.ancient,humanities.classics
Bob (this one)
 
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Default A Carthaginian feast

Gary wrote:
I've heard about "assafidity bags," Bob -- and always suspected that
they prevented disease by assuring that no one would come within
sneezing distance of anyone wearing such things. I'm surprised that the
folks trying to peddle abstinence to teenagers having come up with the
strategy.


Probably because they remember their barren youths...

LOL

Pastorio


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