"Doug Kanter" wrote
>
> "Sheldon" wrote >>
>> limey wrote:
>>> We're overrun with deer. We can't build a fence because of community
>>> association restrictive covenants, yet last year they stripped the
>>> tomato
>>> vines, the cucumbers, the hydrangeas, the peonies, my oriental lilies as
>>> they were two or three inches high and any other green thing they could
>>> get
>>> their teeth into. Naturally, they maraud in the middle of the night so
>>> we
>>> don't see them (just their tracks). Very disheartening.
>>>
>>> Dora
>>
>> What kind of moronic community association permits the installation of
>> a vegetable garden but won't permit the fencing thereof... I'd install
>> a temporary fence and let them sue me, betcha I'd win, not only that
>> I'd make them so miserable that they'd leave, quickly. Didja know that
>> the vast majority of community association rules are unenforceble, well
>> they're not. Why are you letting a few egotistical pinheads menace you?
>>
>> Sheldon
>>
>
> Actually, most of those association rules are easily enforceable, and
> legally binding.

Yes.

In article >,
(Glitter Ninja) wrote:

> I have to agree. It's not the rabbit's fault some stupid human let
> him go. He got bred for a pet and wasn't treated responsibly, and it
> would be sad to kill and eat him because of it.

Why is it sad to eat it? I'm asking in seriousness.

Rabbit is a food animal, it is tasty, and this one is vermin in
Patch's yard. It's been there for some time, and there is no reason,
IMO, that eating it would be wrong. Our chickens are cute, and you can
bet we treat them well, and pet them, but when there are extra roosters,
a mean one that picks on the others or our kids, or a hen that isn't
laying, you can also bet that we eat them.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

In article >,
(Glitter Ninja) wrote:

> Like I said, it's the human who bought him and let him go
> who's responsible, and the human definitely knew better. The rabbit
> doesn't. He's just hungry.

So are deer, but we still eat venison.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> We know the rabbit and my veggie gardens cannot
> co-exist otherwise we will be going hungry. So I do have to make a
> choice. The rabbit goes. The trap is set for tonight. If we have no
> luck catching him well call in the humane society. My neighbour also
> set his traps. Understand most of us here have big gardens. A rabbit
> can do considerable damage in very liitle time. If I don't catch him
> someone else will and they might not be as cheriable as I will be.

I don't think most modern people understand this. For someone who
raises most of their food, a rabbit or deer or whatever other animal is
much more than a mere nuisance.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Last year a rabbit started hanging out around the yard. It looks to be a
> cast-off pet as I can get within a foot of it. I shooed it off everytime
> I saw it. I didn't find any evidence of it being in the gardens. The
> past week or so, it has reappeared and there are signs of damage in the
> garden. It has nipped off anything that is sprouting in the vegetable
> including herbs and flower gardens. Now this is war! I sprinkled a
> healthy dose of cayenne pepper around the vegetable beds to discourage it
> before I start planting. The darn thing has clipped a lot of DH's
> sprouting business - maple trees - so more cayenne pepper. I have no
> choice but to trap this thing. I'm tempted to turn the little bugger into
> rabbit stew! Any good recipes?
==========

I had the same problem a couple of years ago...

One suggestion, mix the cayenne pepper and some black pepper with a light
vegetable oil and spray it on the plants; otherwise, the pepper just blows
off in the wind and/or rain.

Supposedly sprinkling ferret droppings will keep rabbits, moles, and
squirrels away... Another option is to lightly sprinkle wood ashes on and
around the plants. Both options are given in a book by Jerry Baker. <shrug>
I haven't tried the droppings or the ashes.

As for when you catch, kill, and clean the rabbit (or any squirrels that
become bothersome)- I suggest the following:

Squirrel (Rabbit) Stroganoff-style


6-7 slices Bacon, diced
2 Squirrels (1 rabbit) cut into serving pieces
3/4 cup Flour
2 1/2 tsp dry Mustard
1 1/2 tsp Thyme
1/2 tsp Pepper
1 1/2 tsp Salt
3/4 cup Chicken Broth
1 large Onion, diced
4 oz Mushrooms, sliced
1 TBSP Butter
2 cups Sour cream
Grapes, halved (handful of)
1/4 cup Sherry
Minced Parsley


Fry Bacon until crisp and set aside.


Roll meat pieces in the flour mixed with herbs/spices, using all
of the flour mixture if possible, and
brown meat over medium heat. Takes about 15 minutes to do this.


Add the chicken broth, cover and simmer until the saddle pieces
seem tender (15 minutes)


While the meat is simmering, sauté the onion and then the
mushrooms in butter and set aside.


When done, remove the meat temporarily and stir in the sour
cream, grapes, onion & mushrooms.
Make sure the sour cream melds with the other ingredients and if
necessary, add a bit of hot water.
Simmer for 5 minutes but do not let it boil.


Now stir in the sherry, add bacon & meat and simmer just until
the meat is heated again. Garnish
with parsley.

In article >,
"limey" > wrote:

>
> "Doug Kanter" wrote
> >
> > "Wayne Boatwright" wrote >
> >>
> patches wrote:
> I'm tempted to turn the little
> >>> bugger into rabbit stew! Any good recipes?
> >>
> >> Aw, but they're so cute!
> >
> > So are deer, except that some of them also need to die before my garden
> > gets going this season.
>
> We're overrun with deer. We can't build a fence because of community
> association restrictive covenants, yet last year they stripped the tomato
> vines, the cucumbers, the hydrangeas, the peonies, my oriental lilies as
> they were two or three inches high and any other green thing they could get
> their teeth into. Naturally, they maraud in the middle of the night so we
> don't see them (just their tracks). Very disheartening.

Just get an invisible fence and collar all of them.

But seriously--why not get the association to vote a
change to the covenants? If there are a lot of people
that garden it might be possible to get sufficient
support.

Mike Beede

"limey" <
<snip>
>> So are deer, except that some of them also need to die before my garden
>> gets going this season.
>
> We're overrun with deer. We can't build a fence because of community
> association restrictive covenants, yet last year they stripped the tomato
> vines, the cucumbers, the hydrangeas, the peonies, my oriental lilies as
> they were two or three inches high and any other green thing they could
> get their teeth into. Naturally, they maraud in the middle of the night
> so we don't see them (just their tracks). Very disheartening.
>
> Dora =============

Rumor has it that urine will keep them away... how you get it on and around
your garden is your business...
Seriously, that's what I've heard.

--
Syssi

~patches~ > wrote in news:121jbmqaeoksu61
@corp.supernews.com:

> Last year a rabbit started hanging out around the yard. It looks to be
> a cast-off pet as I can get within a foot of it. I shooed it off
> everytime I saw it. I didn't find any evidence of it being in the
> gardens. The past week or so, it has reappeared and there are signs of
> damage in the garden. It has nipped off anything that is sprouting in
> the vegetable including herbs and flower gardens. Now this is war! I
> sprinkled a healthy dose of cayenne pepper around the vegetable beds to
> discourage it before I start planting. The darn thing has clipped a lot
> of DH's sprouting business - maple trees - so more cayenne pepper. I
> have no choice but to trap this thing. I'm tempted to turn the little
> bugger into rabbit stew! Any good recipes?

Rabbits aren't as dumb as me - I made an incredible rabbit stew a couple of
years ago and buggered if I can remember how. Next time I'll be smarter
and actually write it down.

I remember marinating it, whole, in various things - I recall
Worcestershire sauce, and suspect there was also soy sauce, a little
mustard, some garlic and ginger perhaps, dunno what else. I actually used
a lot of different flavour ingredients in the marinade - could have been a
disaster, but somehow they melded perfectly.

Then I stuck it in a cast iron French oven with some onion, carrot,
lentils, stock, wine, herbs and spices (again, can't remember which ones)
and cooked slowly in the oven for about 6-7 hours. Served on mashed
kipflers - very, very good.

Here's hoping the cooking method is of some use, even though I can't
remember most of the ingredients ;P

K

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Dogs do things out of stupidity. Cats do things to **** you off.
> I am quite convinced of that.

You shouldn't develop your knowledge of animal
behavior from certain comic strips.

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/ge...6610620316.gif

Ranee Mueller wrote:
>
> Rabbit is a food animal, [snip]

Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
concept. We raised chickens and rabbits when I was a child and they
weren't pets, they were food (and pelts from the rabbits). Later, I
learned to fish and to hunt (deer) and I was thrilled to contribute
food to the table. Now, I have a vegetable garden and I love eating
what I grow.

I tell people sometimes that getting food from the supermarket is a
compromise foisted on us by our choice to live a life that doesn't
allow hunting and gathering and growing all our own food. Most of them
think I'm crazy.

There was a thread a day or two ago in which the poster described his
school-age girl as vegetarian, at least partly because she loved
animals. No offense, but that's an ignorant little girl. -aem

~patches~ wrote:
>
> That's what I intend to do unless I chicken out and
> do the release thing whick I likely will.

How do you suppose this supposedly ex-pet rabbit
ended up in your yard?

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > Dogs do things out of stupidity. Cats do things to **** you off.
> > I am quite convinced of that.
>
> You shouldn't develop your knowledge of animal
> behavior from certain comic strips.

I have had dogs all my life. I have had my share of cats. I think of dogs as pets and
cats as tools. They are handy for controlling rodents but useless as pets. I used to
have a tom cat that was always a little aloof. One hot summer day I had been out mowing
the grass. I had taken my shirt off and I sad down on the stone all around my patio to
relax for a few minutes. In an uncharacteristically affection moment, this car came up
behind me, put his front paws on my shoulder and licked my ear. It was a tender
moment. Then the ******* extended his claws and ran them down my sweaty back, leaving
with a set of 8 blood streaks, all stinging from the salty sweat.

aem wrote:
> Ranee Mueller wrote:
>
>> Rabbit is a food animal, [snip]
>
>
> Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
> there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
> concept. We raised chickens and rabbits when I was a child and they
> weren't pets, they were food (and pelts from the rabbits). Later, I
> learned to fish and to hunt (deer) and I was thrilled to contribute
> food to the table. Now, I have a vegetable garden and I love eating
> what I grow.
>
> I tell people sometimes that getting food from the supermarket is a
> compromise foisted on us by our choice to live a life that doesn't
> allow hunting and gathering and growing all our own food. Most of them
> think I'm crazy.
>
> There was a thread a day or two ago in which the poster described his
> school-age girl as vegetarian, at least partly because she loved
> animals. No offense, but that's an ignorant little girl. -aem
>

my kid says shes gonna be a vegetarian when she grows up. She regales us
of tales of the farm she's going to have when she's older where "hunters
and farmers can't kill them". She still likes to eat meat, though.

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

sarah bennett wrote:

>
> my kid says shes gonna be a vegetarian when she grows up. She regales us
> of tales of the farm she's going to have when she's older where "hunters
> and farmers can't kill them". She still likes to eat meat, though.
>

All vegetarians eat meat eventually. That's why I don't cater to them.
:-)

sarah bennett wrote:
>
> my kid says shes gonna be a vegetarian when she grows up. She regales us
> of tales of the farm she's going to have when she's older where "hunters
> and farmers can't kill them". She still likes to eat meat, though.

That's cool. Too bad we adults have created a world where so many
childhood dreams cannot be realized. Above, where I said the little
girl was ignorant, I meant she didn't yet know the things that would
keep her from reaching that conclusion. And that's okay. Kids are
supposed to be that way. It's that pesky knowledge thing that chases
us all out of the innocence garden of eden, eventually.

aem wrote:
> sarah bennett wrote:
>
>>my kid says shes gonna be a vegetarian when she grows up. She regales us
>>of tales of the farm she's going to have when she's older where "hunters
>>and farmers can't kill them". She still likes to eat meat, though.
>
>
> That's cool. Too bad we adults have created a world where so many
> childhood dreams cannot be realized. Above, where I said the little
> girl was ignorant, I meant she didn't yet know the things that would
> keep her from reaching that conclusion. And that's okay. Kids are
> supposed to be that way. It's that pesky knowledge thing that chases
> us all out of the innocence garden of eden, eventually.
>

yeah. she asked what happens to bodies when they die a while back, and I
told her that they get buried, (th9ough the soul stays alive), and turn
into dirt, which nourishes flowers and other plants. She responded with:
"I'm going to be a flower after I'm an old lady and I die!"


--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

On Thu 16 Mar 2006 06:10:42p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sarah
bennett?

> aem wrote:
>> Ranee Mueller wrote:
>>
>>> Rabbit is a food animal, [snip]
>>
>>
>> Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
>> there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
>> concept. We raised chickens and rabbits when I was a child and they
>> weren't pets, they were food (and pelts from the rabbits). Later, I
>> learned to fish and to hunt (deer) and I was thrilled to contribute
>> food to the table. Now, I have a vegetable garden and I love eating
>> what I grow.
>>
>> I tell people sometimes that getting food from the supermarket is a
>> compromise foisted on us by our choice to live a life that doesn't
>> allow hunting and gathering and growing all our own food. Most of them
>> think I'm crazy.
>>
>> There was a thread a day or two ago in which the poster described his
>> school-age girl as vegetarian, at least partly because she loved
>> animals. No offense, but that's an ignorant little girl. -aem
>>
>
> my kid says shes gonna be a vegetarian when she grows up. She regales us
> of tales of the farm she's going to have when she's older where "hunters
> and farmers can't kill them". She still likes to eat meat, though.
>

Where do you supposed she thinks the meat comes from?

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 16 Mar 2006 06:10:42p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sarah
> bennett?
>
>
>>aem wrote:
>>
>>>Ranee Mueller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rabbit is a food animal, [snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
>>>there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
>>>concept. We raised chickens and rabbits when I was a child and they
>>>weren't pets, they were food (and pelts from the rabbits). Later, I
>>>learned to fish and to hunt (deer) and I was thrilled to contribute
>>>food to the table. Now, I have a vegetable garden and I love eating
>>>what I grow.
>>>
>>>I tell people sometimes that getting food from the supermarket is a
>>>compromise foisted on us by our choice to live a life that doesn't
>>>allow hunting and gathering and growing all our own food. Most of them
>>>think I'm crazy.
>>>
>>>There was a thread a day or two ago in which the poster described his
>>>school-age girl as vegetarian, at least partly because she loved
>>>animals. No offense, but that's an ignorant little girl. -aem
>>>
>>
>>my kid says shes gonna be a vegetarian when she grows up. She regales us
>>of tales of the farm she's going to have when she's older where "hunters
>>and farmers can't kill them". She still likes to eat meat, though.
>>
>
>
> Where do you supposed she thinks the meat comes from?
>

she knows it comes from animals. She's 4.

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

Mark Thorson wrote:
> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>That's what I intend to do unless I chicken out and
>>do the release thing whick I likely will.
>
>
> How do you suppose this supposedly ex-pet rabbit
> ended up in your yard?

How would I know? Animals are mobile and take advatage of favourable
conditions. Even if an ex-pet which is very likely, it moved to where
it could find shelter and food. Since all of my neighbours have veggie
gardens that would provid the food source. Shelter, well perhaps it
lives in one of the wood piles or something.

Lapin au Moutarde.
Do a google search. I sympathize. I went for a walk in the snow today and
saw lots of tracks. Bad news for farmers like me. EAT THE *******S!!!!

Farmer John

In article .com>,
"aem" > wrote:

> Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
> there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
> concept. We raised chickens and rabbits when I was a child and they
> weren't pets, they were food (and pelts from the rabbits). Later, I
> learned to fish and to hunt (deer) and I was thrilled to contribute
> food to the table. Now, I have a vegetable garden and I love eating
> what I grow.
>
> I tell people sometimes that getting food from the supermarket is a
> compromise foisted on us by our choice to live a life that doesn't
> allow hunting and gathering and growing all our own food. Most of them
> think I'm crazy.

Oh, we're starting to look positively like farmers to most people we
know. We have a long way to go.

We are trying to become more able to be self sufficient. Not
completely, there's no way we'd be able to grow sugar cane here, and not
enough sugar maple trees or birch to make syrup and sugar, no citrus, or
coffee, or most spices, and we don't have all the land needed to grow
our grain for the year, among other restrictions. However, as much as
we can grow, raise, make, we want to do it. Or at least know how. We
also want to know how to do things in a non-electronic or gas-powered
way. Not necessarily because we'd eschew those activities, but it sure
helps if you know what to do when the power is gone.

Our house was built around 1950 and has electric heat, but it also
has two fireplaces (one up and one down) and a secondary wood burning
furnace. That, and the amount of land we are allowed to play with is
part of what spurred us on to learning to do without electricity or gas
or whatever and trying to use what we could grow/make.

Anyway, you are hereby invited to become a neighbor. Also, if
you haven't read it yet, a book you might find interesting is Better
Off. We found it fascinating.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>~patches~ wrote:
> >>
> >>>That's what I intend to do unless I chicken out and
> >>>do the release thing whick I likely will.
> >>
> >>Not around here, I hope. :-)
> >
> >
> > She could also take it to the local feed store.......
> >
> > Or animal shelter if she is desperate.
>
> Or what I could do is get DH to build a movable pen so the rabbit
> couldn't get out. Then every other day move it to another area of the
> lawn. No more lawn care service

And free fertilizer...
Not sure tho' that that would work with bunnies.
They do dig.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"fudge" > wrote in message
...
> Lapin au Moutarde.
> Do a google search. I sympathize. I went for a walk in the snow today and
> saw lots of tracks. Bad news for farmers like me. EAT THE *******S!!!!
>
> Farmer John
I don't know about now, but I've told this story probably too many times --
I've never been a meat eater, being raised on a farm confirmed my tastes
even more -- one time my dad brought home a rabbit and I recall him skinning
it -- yikes! just like it was yesterday. Most of the family except but Dee
Dee ended up in the hospital. Those were the days when absolutely no one
even went to a doctor. It must've been pretty dire.

Eat at your own risk, I would think.
Dee Dee

sarah bennett > writes:
>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>sarah bennett wrote:
>>>aem wrote:
>>>>Ranee Mueller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rabbit is a food animal, [snip]
>>>>
>>>>Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
>>>>there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
>>>>concept.

People have free will, you know. If someone doesn't want to eat
rabbits or cows or frogs for whatever reason, they shouldn't have to put
up with your intolerance and insults about it.

>>>>There was a thread a day or two ago in which the poster described his
>>>>school-age girl as vegetarian, at least partly because she loved
>>>>animals. No offense, but that's an ignorant little girl. -aem

She said that her daughter planned to be a veterinarian when she grew
up and wanted to help animals, not eat them. What the hell is your
problem? Someone who disagrees with you is ignorant? And that "no
offense but <insert insult here>" crap is so damned condescending.

Stacia

[snipped]

Dave Smith > writes:

>All vegetarians eat meat eventually. That's why I don't cater to them.
>:-)

If someone doesn't want to eat meat that day, why is that a problem
for you? The people I know who don't eat meat much do it for health
reasons, but even if they didn't eat meat because they think animals are
filled with explosive mercury, it's none of your concern. Refusing to
make a vegetable dish just out of spite is childish. What do you think
you're going to prove?

Stacia

"Syssi" > wrote in message
news:UtnSf.18832$wH5.13771@trnddc02...
> "limey" <
> <snip>
>>> So are deer, except that some of them also need to die before my garden
>>> gets going this season.
>>
>> We're overrun with deer. We can't build a fence because of community
>> association restrictive covenants, yet last year they stripped the tomato
>> vines, the cucumbers, the hydrangeas, the peonies, my oriental lilies as
>> they were two or three inches high and any other green thing they could
>> get their teeth into. Naturally, they maraud in the middle of the night
>> so we don't see them (just their tracks). Very disheartening.
>>
>> Dora =============
>
> Rumor has it that urine will keep them away... how you get it on and
> around your garden is your business...
> Seriously, that's what I've heard.
>
> --
> Syssi
>

I believe it has to be male urine.

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > The trap is going in tonight so if all goes well, I might just be
looking
> > for bunny recipes
>
> What bait has worked for you in the past? I tried veggies last year, but
the
> rabbits thought "What is he..****in' stoopid? We've got vegetables on the
> outside of the trap!"
>
>

Good question. I don't have an answer but I don't need one as I have a very
efficient bunny remover sitting at my feet. He would let me cook them if I
asked him nicely but the chances are there would be holes in all the wrong
places so I just reduce his rations whenever he catches his own breakfast
and call it done.

David

"David Hare-Scott" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> >
>> > The trap is going in tonight so if all goes well, I might just be
> looking
>> > for bunny recipes
>>
>> What bait has worked for you in the past? I tried veggies last year, but
> the
>> rabbits thought "What is he..****in' stoopid? We've got vegetables on the
>> outside of the trap!"
>>
>>
>
> Good question. I don't have an answer but I don't need one as I have a
> very
> efficient bunny remover sitting at my feet. He would let me cook them if
> I
> asked him nicely but the chances are there would be holes in all the wrong
> places so I just reduce his rations whenever he catches his own breakfast
> and call it done.
>
> David
>
>

I'm working on that with my cat, who, when 4 months old, murdered a squirrel
twice her size.

Ranee Mueller wrote:

> In article .com>,
> "aem" > wrote:
>
>
>>Exactly right, and you'd think that would be the end of the matter, but
>>there are a lot of people who for one reason or another resist that
>>concept. We raised chickens and rabbits when I was a child and they
>>weren't pets, they were food (and pelts from the rabbits). Later, I
>>learned to fish and to hunt (deer) and I was thrilled to contribute
>>food to the table. Now, I have a vegetable garden and I love eating
>>what I grow.
>>
>>I tell people sometimes that getting food from the supermarket is a
>>compromise foisted on us by our choice to live a life that doesn't
>>allow hunting and gathering and growing all our own food. Most of them
>>think I'm crazy.
>
>
> Oh, we're starting to look positively like farmers to most people we
> know. We have a long way to go.
>
> We are trying to become more able to be self sufficient. Not
> completely, there's no way we'd be able to grow sugar cane here, and not
> enough sugar maple trees or birch to make syrup and sugar, no citrus, or
> coffee, or most spices, and we don't have all the land needed to grow
> our grain for the year, among other restrictions. However, as much as
> we can grow, raise, make, we want to do it. Or at least know how. We
> also want to know how to do things in a non-electronic or gas-powered
> way. Not necessarily because we'd eschew those activities, but it sure
> helps if you know what to do when the power is gone.

We try to grow as much as possible for eating fresh, filling the
freezers, and stocking the canning shelf. Your right though, there are
limitations to what you can grow based on location. We are just inside
the town line so zoning says no livestock even though we have a farmer's
field behind us. I could get away with raising rabbits as they aren't
considered livestock. I might be able to get away with a couple of
chickens unless anyone complained to the town. We can set humane traps
for anything that comes into the yard. That would end up being mainly
squirrels and cats. There's an ermine hanging around but I doubt he
would be good eats. There is also musk rats but we haven't trapped any
of those. We live on the water and we have a boat so I can fish. We
don't hunt ourselves other than DH going on a hunt trip as an observer.
He brought home about 60 lb of venison. One of our neighbours trades
wild duck for some of my garden produce. For meats and eggs we are
really dependent on farmers who we buy directly from for less than the
store prices. While I have ground my own flour it isn't something I do
on a regular basis.
>
> Our house was built around 1950 and has electric heat, but it also
> has two fireplaces (one up and one down) and a secondary wood burning
> furnace. That, and the amount of land we are allowed to play with is
> part of what spurred us on to learning to do without electricity or gas
> or whatever and trying to use what we could grow/make.

Our house is heated with natural gas and no fireplaces. I want a corn
burning stove but because of the design of the house finding an
appropriate spot for one is next to impossible. We can get the corn
cheap from an inlaw. DH is concerned it will attract rodents that are
already a problem - field mice and voles.

I'm playing around with solar and have made a couple of solar heaters.
I have a solar/windup radio and solar battery chargers for the smaller
batteries. Our power goes out a lot so I'd really like to do more using
solar especially for the funace fan. I've seen instructions for making
a solar cooker but haven't tried that. Our stove is electric so if the
power is out I use either the bbq or a Coleman stove but only if I
really *have* to cook.
>
> Anyway, you are hereby invited to become a neighbor. Also, if
> you haven't read it yet, a book you might find interesting is Better
> Off. We found it fascinating.
>
> Regards,
> Ranee
>
> Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.
>
> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
>
> http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
> http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>~patches~ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That's what I intend to do unless I chicken out and
>>>>>do the release thing whick I likely will.
>>>>
>>>>Not around here, I hope. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>She could also take it to the local feed store.......
>>>
>>>Or animal shelter if she is desperate.
>>
>>Or what I could do is get DH to build a movable pen so the rabbit
>>couldn't get out. Then every other day move it to another area of the
>>lawn. No more lawn care service
>
>
> And free fertilizer...
> Not sure tho' that that would work with bunnies.
> They do dig.

I've already thought of that. If you made a cubed pen entirely enclosed
with chicken wire including the base it wouldn't be able to get out. No
luck on the trap yet.

>
> I've already thought of that. If you made a cubed pen entirely enclosed
> with chicken wire including the base it wouldn't be able to get out. No
> luck on the trap yet.

Do bunnies dig out under chicken wire? I had a fence made for a dog and the
builder made it of chicken wire which he buried undeneath the ground about
12 inches. It didn't keep another dog from digging its way in to impregnate
my doggie. I'm thinkin', don't rabbits like to breed, wouldn't they dig out
under the chicken wire, in or out?
Dee Dee

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:

> ~patches~ > hitched up their panties and posted
> :
>
>
>>Last year a rabbit started hanging out around the yard. It looks to be
>>a cast-off pet as I can get within a foot of it. I shooed it off
>>everytime I saw it. I didn't find any evidence of it being in the
>>gardens. The past week or so, it has reappeared and there are signs of
>>damage in the garden. It has nipped off anything that is sprouting in
>>the vegetable including herbs and flower gardens. Now this is war! I
>>sprinkled a healthy dose of cayenne pepper around the vegetable beds to
>>discourage it before I start planting. The darn thing has clipped a lot
>>of DH's sprouting business - maple trees - so more cayenne pepper. I
>>have no choice but to trap this thing. I'm tempted to turn the little
>>bugger into rabbit stew! Any good recipes?
>>
>
>
> I'd say if you are humane, to take the rabbit inside. Rabbits make good
> pets and you sound like a person that would do well with a pet.
>
> Michael
>
No can do - severe allergies.

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:

> ~patches~ > hitched up their panties and
> posted :
>
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> ~patches~ > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Last year a rabbit started hanging out around the yard. It looks to
>>>>be a cast-off pet as I can get within a foot of it. I shooed it off
>>>>everytime I saw it. I didn't find any evidence of it being in the
>>>>gardens. The past week or so, it has reappeared and there are signs
>>>>of damage in the garden. It has nipped off anything that is
>>>>sprouting in the vegetable including herbs and flower gardens. Now
>>>>this is war! I sprinkled a healthy dose of cayenne pepper around the
>>>>vegetable beds to discourage it before I start planting. The darn
>>>>thing has clipped a lot of DH's sprouting business - maple trees - so
>>>>more cayenne pepper. I have no choice but to trap this thing. I'm
>>>>tempted to turn the little bugger into rabbit stew! Any good
>>>>recipes?
>>>
>>>
>>>There are a number of ways to prepare bunny.
>>>My personal favorite is southern fried...
>>
>>The trap is going in tonight so if all goes well, I might just be
>>looking for bunny recipes
>>
>
>
> While I like bunnys you can come over here and trap as many tree rats as
> you can catch. You can also take the 'coons and opossums. Bart(neighbor's
> cat) is now fully installed in our garage and this one fat, lazy 'coon
> sneaks in and eats her food. It's learned how to use the cat door Steven

We had a family of racoons living in a tree on the edge of our driveway.
The babies were so cute! I think the mother was caught by the
exterminator who was called out to the neighbour to the south of us to
rid a racoon from their attic. They can do a lot of damage in attics.
We couldn't park our one vehicle anywhere near that tree without getting
racoon **** on it! The neighbour to the north finally trapped all the
babies. Problem solved. Possums can be a problem too. We had one
hanging around at our old house. We have musk rat and an ermine that
the neighbour is trying to trap. Ermines can be vicious little buggers!
Tree rats can be a problem in the garden especially with green
tomatoes. Last fall I caught a couple of them snitching green roma
tomatoes and taking only a bite or two then dropping as an *in your
face* thing. They're fair game for trapping now! I have a motion
activated sprayer that makes a funky noise. It is a humane way of
keeping 4 legged and 2 legged pests out of my veggie garden. It's too
cold to get it out right now but in another couple of weeks. Hopefully
buggs will be caught before that.

> installed for Bart. I also caught it sleeping in Bart's Igloo dog shed
> thingy. Only once though. It was cold as hell out and I think it liked the
> light bulb because of the heat it generates. Bart was not happy as an
> indoor cat. Not happy at all. Hoot and Ramsey are indoor cats and never go
> outside without one of us with them. Missy the dog is an indoor dog too.
> She goes into the back yard with one of us but in the front she's always on
> her leash. Hoot is sitting with me as I type and Ramsey is sleeping on the
> computer monitor.
>
> Michael
>

Glitter Ninja wrote:

> >All vegetarians eat meat eventually. That's why I don't cater to them.
> >:-)
>
> If someone doesn't want to eat meat that day, why is that a problem
> for you? The people I know who don't eat meat much do it for health
> reasons, but even if they didn't eat meat because they think animals are
> filled with explosive mercury, it's none of your concern. Refusing to
> make a vegetable dish just out of spite is childish. What do you think
> you're going to prove?

Who is refusing to make vegetable dishes? I don't eat just meat. But let
me give you an example. A few years ago we hosted my wife's family for
Christmas. Christmas dinner is turkey. I didn't know that my nephew was
bringing his daughter. I also didn't know that she had adopted the trendy
vegan fad diet. Apparently he had some vegan food for her but forgot it.
While we trying to sit down to our dinner my wife is running around trying
to find something that she can eat. She is poring over labels to check
ingredients. Then there were her likes and dislikes.
A year and a half later we are at a wedding with a buffet meal. The vegan
niece is seated across the table from me and her plate is loaded with pork,
beef, chicken, cheeses, fish.

Doug Kanter wrote:

>
> I'm working on that with my cat, who, when 4 months old, murdered a squirrel
> twice her size.

Tree rats are not murdered. They are exterminated.

Dee Randall wrote:

> Do bunnies dig out under chicken wire? I had a fence made for a dog and the
> builder made it of chicken wire which he buried undeneath the ground about
> 12 inches. It didn't keep another dog from digging its way in to impregnate
> my doggie. I'm thinkin', don't rabbits like to breed, wouldn't they dig out
> under the chicken wire, in or out?

Yes. Rabbits will dig under the chicken wire. They won't bother with a long deep
tunnel. All they need is a little bit of room under the fence and they will
squeeze through. Ideally, they should have a pen with chicken wire all the way
around. It will hold them in, stop them from digging out, and it will protect
them from predators.

In article >,
(Glitter Ninja) wrote:

> Dave Smith > writes:
>
> >All vegetarians eat meat eventually. That's why I don't cater to them.
> >:-)
>
> If someone doesn't want to eat meat that day, why is that a problem
> for you? The people I know who don't eat meat much do it for health
> reasons, but even if they didn't eat meat because they think animals are
> filled with explosive mercury, it's none of your concern. Refusing to
> make a vegetable dish just out of spite is childish. What do you think
> you're going to prove?

He said he didn't cater to them, not that he didn't make vegetables.
There is a difference. If someone who is vegetarian is coming to a
dinner party, he would still make his main dish, whether it was meat or
not, and make the other side dishes, and the vegetarian would have to
navigate. We do this in our women's group and at church where there is
a woman who was raised with weird meat phobias as a Seventh Day
Adventist, and still eats only very limited meat products. Nobody
brings all meat, but we don't keep meat dishes out because she is there.

If someone has a religious reason, or if they have health reasons, I
will accomodate. If someone dislikes something, I won't center the meal
on it, but I won't go far out of my way to avoid it, unless he is the
only person eating with me. Since the vast majority of vegetarians who
aren't doing so out of religious obligation change their minds
eventually, it is simply a food preference. If I have vegetable sides
(which I always do) and a salad, rice/pasta/bread, then they are free to
eat those. Unless, of course, it is a meal solely for that person. If
they are lucky, they will show up on a Wednesday or Friday and we'll be
eating meatless anyway. I won't cook vegan. There are some dishes that
just happen to be vegan, like salad, but I won't make a vegan meal.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

Dee Randall wrote:

>>I've already thought of that. If you made a cubed pen entirely enclosed
>>with chicken wire including the base it wouldn't be able to get out. No
>>luck on the trap yet.
>
>
> Do bunnies dig out under chicken wire? I had a fence made for a dog and the
> builder made it of chicken wire which he buried undeneath the ground about
> 12 inches. It didn't keep another dog from digging its way in to impregnate
> my doggie. I'm thinkin', don't rabbits like to breed, wouldn't they dig out
> under the chicken wire, in or out?
> Dee Dee
>
>
I've seen rabbit pens at the petting farm. The bottoms and sides are
chicken wire. The top and a little shelter inside are wood so the
rabbits can get out of the sun. Come to think of it the pens aren't
right on the ground. Maybe something stronger like 1/2" carpenter mesh
would be a better choice. It would be hard for them to break the mesh
to get out through the bottom.

Ranee Mueller wrote:
> In article >,
> (Glitter Ninja) wrote:
>
>
>>Dave Smith > writes:
>>
>>
>>>All vegetarians eat meat eventually. That's why I don't cater to them.
>>>:-)
>>
>> If someone doesn't want to eat meat that day, why is that a problem
>>for you? The people I know who don't eat meat much do it for health
>>reasons, but even if they didn't eat meat because they think animals are
>>filled with explosive mercury, it's none of your concern. Refusing to
>>make a vegetable dish just out of spite is childish. What do you think
>>you're going to prove?
>
>
> He said he didn't cater to them, not that he didn't make vegetables.
> There is a difference. If someone who is vegetarian is coming to a
> dinner party, he would still make his main dish, whether it was meat or
> not, and make the other side dishes, and the vegetarian would have to
> navigate. We do this in our women's group and at church where there is
> a woman who was raised with weird meat phobias as a Seventh Day
> Adventist, and still eats only very limited meat products. Nobody
> brings all meat, but we don't keep meat dishes out because she is there.
>
> If someone has a religious reason, or if they have health reasons, I
> will accomodate. If someone dislikes something, I won't center the meal
> on it, but I won't go far out of my way to avoid it, unless he is the
> only person eating with me. Since the vast majority of vegetarians who

I take a different approach. I try to accomodate my guests if possible
including food choices and base my menu around that. For example we
have one friend that doesn't drink alcohol. Since I cook with alcohol
on occasion if it is a dish with alcohol in it, I will make enough for
him with no alcohol. It looks the same and I never say a thing to
anyone but he trust me enough to know I do this for him and he is very
appreciative. I have food allergies and am lactose intolerant so I know
what it feels like to go somewhere and not be able to eat much because
of their offerings. One of my kids is lactose intolerant but unlike me
will drink milk so we buy special milk when the kid visits.

> aren't doing so out of religious obligation change their minds
> eventually, it is simply a food preference. If I have vegetable sides
> (which I always do) and a salad, rice/pasta/bread, then they are free to
> eat those. Unless, of course, it is a meal solely for that person. If
> they are lucky, they will show up on a Wednesday or Friday and we'll be
> eating meatless anyway. I won't cook vegan. There are some dishes that
> just happen to be vegan, like salad, but I won't make a vegan meal.

I'd say 99% of our dinner meals are served with salad and always a
couple of vegetable offerings. If I know specifically that someone is
vegan or vegetarian, I will offer more choices. It's important to me
that people feel comfortable in our home and I would be greatly insulted
if anyone ever left my table hungry. To me, the meal is secondary to
maintaining good family and friend relationships. The meal just helps
to reinforce those relationships Doing something a little extra for
people goes a long way. Make sense?
>
> Regards,
> Ranee
>
> Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.
>
> "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
>
> http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
> http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

~patches~ > wrote in
:

> Last year a rabbit started hanging out around the yard. It looks to
> be a cast-off pet as I can get within a foot of it. I shooed it off
> everytime I saw it. I didn't find any evidence of it being in the
> gardens. The past week or so, it has reappeared and there are signs
> of damage in the garden. It has nipped off anything that is sprouting
> in the vegetable including herbs and flower gardens. Now this is war!
> I sprinkled a healthy dose of cayenne pepper around the vegetable beds
> to discourage it before I start planting. The darn thing has clipped
> a lot of DH's sprouting business - maple trees - so more cayenne
> pepper. I have no choice but to trap this thing. I'm tempted to turn
> the little bugger into rabbit stew! Any good recipes?

I dearly love hassenfeffer. Can't find dressed rabbit anymore though -
can buy domestic but have to butcher it myself - but too soft-hearted.
Used to be able to buy frozen rabbit; Pell or something like that was
the brand.

Ken



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