The bread making actually began Friday night...I have a lot of
sourdough cultures that I nurture and then sometimes neglect. I have
to "refresh" them to keep them alive, alive-o and that is what I did
last week. By Friday night, they were so active, they were popping
their Rubbermaid lids & shooting them across the room.

I mixed up 3 separate batches to being the breads...One was based on a
rye-based starter, one was based a starter that I got from a artisan
bakery and one was a starter from god-only-know-where. I had planned 3
separate types of breads...and so I needed 3 different bases for them.
Each starter was mixed with flours of varying kinds and water, and
left to ferment overnight.

Saturday morning, after errands, I took the pre-ferments and mixed
doughs for:

1)A lean-dough multi-grain bread, with regular flour, dark rye,
rolled oats, spelt flour and coarse corn meal, water and salt.

2) A lean dough, artisan type sourdough that had regular flour and
some semolina for a bit of color & crunch, and some water and salt

3)A rich dough that had flour, rolled oats, some butter, sour cream,
milk and honey, and that was to be the basis for cinnamon-raisin
bread..

All three doughs were mixed up, kneaded, then put in the fridge about
noon on Saturday.

The proofing bowls were removed from the fridge at 8:30 am. By 10:30
this morning, I started to made up the loaves, the multi-grain in
willow baskets to get that neat design on the outside, the
cinnamon-raisin in loaf pans (the dough was rolled into a rectangle,
spread with a brown sugar and cinnamon mixtures, sprinkled with
pre-soaked raisins and "rolled" into a loaf shape) and the plain
artisan sourdough in long, free-from loaves (these can be tricky, as
the dough is one of very, very high hydration.

Ok...I can share the pictures, but I did not use any recipes at
all......I just went by feel, aiming for the kind of crumb I
wanted....the denser crumb of the whole grain, the open & holey
structure of the artisan SD type, and the usual texture of a
cinnamon-raisin loaf. This all varies by the ratio of water/liquid to
flour and also how long it is allowed to ferment and rise.

The cinnamon-raisin should have come out of the oven maybe 5 minutes
earlier, but the internal temp was not quite where I wanted it. I will
bake it at a lower overall temp next time, as it is a sweet dough. Mea
culpa.

One of the multi-grains is almost gone, one of the CRs will be kept
out & the rest will be frozen when they are cooled down.

http://i1.tinypic.com/mtum3l.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/mtutnc.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/mtvw2a.jpg

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> The bread making actually began Friday night...I have a lot of
> sourdough cultures that I nurture and then sometimes neglect. I have
> to "refresh" them to keep them alive, alive-o and that is what I did
> last week. By Friday night, they were so active, they were popping
> their Rubbermaid lids & shooting them across the room.
>
> I mixed up 3 separate batches to being the breads...One was based on a
> rye-based starter, one was based a starter that I got from a artisan
> bakery and one was a starter from god-only-know-where. I had planned 3
> separate types of breads...and so I needed 3 different bases for them.
> Each starter was mixed with flours of varying kinds and water, and
> left to ferment overnight.
>
> Saturday morning, after errands, I took the pre-ferments and mixed
> doughs for:
>
> 1)A lean-dough multi-grain bread, with regular flour, dark rye,
> rolled oats, spelt flour and coarse corn meal, water and salt.
>
> 2) A lean dough, artisan type sourdough that had regular flour and
> some semolina for a bit of color & crunch, and some water and salt
>
> 3)A rich dough that had flour, rolled oats, some butter, sour cream,
> milk and honey, and that was to be the basis for cinnamon-raisin
> bread..
>
> All three doughs were mixed up, kneaded, then put in the fridge about
> noon on Saturday.
>
> The proofing bowls were removed from the fridge at 8:30 am. By 10:30
> this morning, I started to made up the loaves, the multi-grain in
> willow baskets to get that neat design on the outside, the
> cinnamon-raisin in loaf pans (the dough was rolled into a rectangle,
> spread with a brown sugar and cinnamon mixtures, sprinkled with
> pre-soaked raisins and "rolled" into a loaf shape) and the plain
> artisan sourdough in long, free-from loaves (these can be tricky, as
> the dough is one of very, very high hydration.
>
> Ok...I can share the pictures, but I did not use any recipes at
> all......I just went by feel, aiming for the kind of crumb I
> wanted....the denser crumb of the whole grain, the open & holey
> structure of the artisan SD type, and the usual texture of a
> cinnamon-raisin loaf. This all varies by the ratio of water/liquid to
> flour and also how long it is allowed to ferment and rise.
>
> The cinnamon-raisin should have come out of the oven maybe 5 minutes
> earlier, but the internal temp was not quite where I wanted it. I will
> bake it at a lower overall temp next time, as it is a sweet dough. Mea
> culpa.
>
> One of the multi-grains is almost gone, one of the CRs will be kept
> out & the rest will be frozen when they are cooled down.
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtum3l.jpg
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtutnc.jpg
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtvw2a.jpg
>
> Boron

Thanks for the wonderful pictures. There's nothing I like more than
pictures of bread-baking. I envy you with all your cultures going. It's
great inspiration.
Dee Dee

Boron Elgar wrote:
> The bread making actually began Friday night>
> The cinnamon-raisin should have come out of the oven maybe 5 minutes
> earlier, but the internal temp was not quite where I wanted it. I will
> bake it at a lower overall temp next time, as it is a sweet dough. Mea
> culpa.
>
> One of the multi-grains is almost gone, one of the CRs will be kept
> out & the rest will be frozen when they are cooled down.
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtum3l.jpg
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtutnc.jpg
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtvw2a.jpg

Impressive! Perfect... high brown, just the way I like it.

Sheldon

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:42:03 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:


>
>Thanks for the wonderful pictures. There's nothing I like more than
>pictures of bread-baking. I envy you with all your cultures going. It's
>great inspiration.
>Dee Dee
>
I think I can dry some & send it by mail, if you want. I have never
tried it, but that is how Carl's starter is sent to those who want it.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:42:03 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Thanks for the wonderful pictures. There's nothing I like more than
>>pictures of bread-baking. I envy you with all your cultures going. It's
>>great inspiration.
>>Dee Dee
>>
> I think I can dry some & send it by mail, if you want. I have never
> tried it, but that is how Carl's starter is sent to those who want it.
>
> Boron

Boron, thanks for your generosity. I've had Carl's sitting around so long
it's embarassing to me. I don't understand my procrastination except it's
so daunting.
Dee Dee

Boron Elgar wrote:

> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtum3l.jpg
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtutnc.jpg
>
> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtvw2a.jpg
>
> Boron

Those look great! I wish I could bake bread for real, but I have my trusty
machine.

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:23:42 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>I think I can dry some & send it by mail, if you want. I have never
>tried it, but that is how Carl's starter is sent to those who want it.
>
>Boron

Hi Boron,

Here's how I do it...

When the starter is active take a teaspoon of it, and add
enough water to make a thin slurry.

Put a flat plate in a plastic bag and flatten the bag over
the plate.

Pour the slurry onto the plate (actually onto the plastic
bag) and leave it someplace where it will not be disturbed
for a few days.

Every 24 hours or so, "roll" it around to distribute any
remaining liquid.

After a few days, the slurry will dry out completely.

The resulting material will look rather like a few potato
chips.

Remove the plate while turning the plastic bag inside out.

With that, the "chips" are enclosed by the bag with no need
to touch them.

That's it.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:18:23 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:23:42 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>I think I can dry some & send it by mail, if you want. I have never
>>tried it, but that is how Carl's starter is sent to those who want it.
>>
>>Boron
>
>Hi Boron,
>
>Here's how I do it...
>
>When the starter is active take a teaspoon of it, and add
>enough water to make a thin slurry.
>
>Put a flat plate in a plastic bag and flatten the bag over
>the plate.
>
>Pour the slurry onto the plate (actually onto the plastic
>bag) and leave it someplace where it will not be disturbed
>for a few days.
>
>Every 24 hours or so, "roll" it around to distribute any
>remaining liquid.
>
>After a few days, the slurry will dry out completely.
>
>The resulting material will look rather like a few potato
>chips.
>
>Remove the plate while turning the plastic bag inside out.
>
>With that, the "chips" are enclosed by the bag with no need
>to touch them.
>
>That's it.
>
>All the best,

Thanks. I should have known you'd have an answer.

I have tried drying some for myself & then freezing it, but since it
was just instinct & I have not tried to reconstitute any of it myself,
I had no idea if I had been on the right track and hesitated to think
I knew how. I could only vouch for the chips, not for the success.
Your post was encouraging - of course with so many cultures burbling
away right now, the last thing I need is another one.....

Boron

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:12:21 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>
>Thanks. I should have known you'd have an answer.
>
>I have tried drying some for myself & then freezing it, but since it
>was just instinct & I have not tried to reconstitute any of it myself,
>I had no idea if I had been on the right track and hesitated to think
>I knew how. I could only vouch for the chips, not for the success.
>Your post was encouraging - of course with so many cultures burbling
>away right now, the last thing I need is another one.....
>
>Boron

Hi again,

Be cautious about the freezing...

It is my understanding that the yeasts do rather well when
frozen but that certain lactobacilli cannot survive such.

The result might be a different starter from the one with
which you started.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"The Bubbo" > wrote in message
...
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtum3l.jpg
>>
>> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtutnc.jpg
>>
>> http://i1.tinypic.com/mtvw2a.jpg
>>
>> Boron
>
> Those look great! I wish I could bake bread for real, but I have my trusty
> machine.
>
> --
> .:Heather:.

Heather, you, too, are "baking bread for real."
Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:
>
> "The Bubbo" > wrote in message

>>
>> Those look great! I wish I could bake bread for real, but I have my trusty
>> machine.
>>
>> --
>> .:Heather:.
>
> Heather, you, too, are "baking bread for real."
> Dee Dee
>
>

thanks. I do love my bread machine!

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:23:49p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The Bubbo?

> Dee Randall wrote:
>>
>> "The Bubbo" > wrote in message
>
>>>
>>> Those look great! I wish I could bake bread for real, but I have my
>>> trusty machine.
>>>
>>> --
>>> .:Heather:.
>>
>> Heather, you, too, are "baking bread for real."
>> Dee Dee
>>
>>
>
> thanks. I do love my bread machine!
>

Yep, it's real bread, Heather. You just have a kitchen drone to do the
hard part for you. Enjoy!!!

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>>
>
> Yep, it's real bread, Heather. You just have a kitchen drone to do the
> hard part for you. Enjoy!!!
>


I always stand there and watch the initial mixing, I love watching everything
come together, sometimes david and I have impromptu dance parties to the
rhythm of the machine.

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:35:27p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The Bubbo?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> Yep, it's real bread, Heather. You just have a kitchen drone to do the
>> hard part for you. Enjoy!!!
>>
>
>
> I always stand there and watch the initial mixing, I love watching
> everything come together, sometimes david and I have impromptu dance
> parties to the rhythm of the machine.

I usually use a stand mixer, and I enjoy watching the same thing, as the
ingredients gradually become a real dough.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:35:27p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The Bubbo?
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yep, it's real bread, Heather. You just have a kitchen drone to do the
>>> hard part for you. Enjoy!!!
>>>
>>
>>
>> I always stand there and watch the initial mixing, I love watching
>> everything come together, sometimes david and I have impromptu dance
>> parties to the rhythm of the machine.
>
> I usually use a stand mixer, and I enjoy watching the same thing, as the
> ingredients gradually become a real dough.
>

Can it do the subsequent kneads?
My issue is that I have yet another cyst in my median nerve just as it enters
the carpal tunnel. That means more surgery (probably in March) but it also
means that I have a lot of weakness in my right hand as well as loss of
sensation. It's the third time for me, it's kind of a pain. I pretty much
can't knead dough with any effectiveness.

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:57:16p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The Bubbo?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:35:27p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The
>> Bubbo?
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yep, it's real bread, Heather. You just have a kitchen drone to do
>>>> the hard part for you. Enjoy!!!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I always stand there and watch the initial mixing, I love watching
>>> everything come together, sometimes david and I have impromptu dance
>>> parties to the rhythm of the machine.
>>
>> I usually use a stand mixer, and I enjoy watching the same thing, as
>> the ingredients gradually become a real dough.
>>
>
> Can it do the subsequent kneads?
> My issue is that I have yet another cyst in my median nerve just as it
> enters the carpal tunnel. That means more surgery (probably in March)
> but it also means that I have a lot of weakness in my right hand as well
> as loss of sensation. It's the third time for me, it's kind of a pain. I
> pretty much can't knead dough with any effectiveness.

Ouch! Well, almost all of the kneading is done in the mixer prior to the
first rise. After that, punch down followed by very little kneading (just
a couple of turns), then second rise, then punch down, form and bake. Same
thing for those breads that have a third rise. The subsequent kneading
isn't much more than punching down and a couple of turns afterward.

I have never owned a bread machine, so I may be wrong, but I'm guessing the
"subsequent kneadings" you're referring to are mainly performing the same
taks as punching down with a couple of turns afterward.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:57:16p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The Bubbo?

>>
>> Can it do the subsequent kneads?
>> My issue is that I have yet another cyst in my median nerve just as it
>> enters the carpal tunnel. That means more surgery (probably in March)
>> but it also means that I have a lot of weakness in my right hand as well
>> as loss of sensation. It's the third time for me, it's kind of a pain. I
>> pretty much can't knead dough with any effectiveness.
>
> Ouch! Well, almost all of the kneading is done in the mixer prior to the
> first rise. After that, punch down followed by very little kneading (just
> a couple of turns), then second rise, then punch down, form and bake. Same
> thing for those breads that have a third rise. The subsequent kneading
> isn't much more than punching down and a couple of turns afterward.
>
> I have never owned a bread machine, so I may be wrong, but I'm guessing the
> "subsequent kneadings" you're referring to are mainly performing the same
> taks as punching down with a couple of turns afterward.
>

on mine it kneads it together, lets it rest, kneads, rises, punches, rises,
kneads, rises bakes (I think that's the order, maybe there's one more punch in
there, there's definitely a long knead in the middle).

one thing I would like to be able to do is take the dough out and knead in
chunky ingredients and bake from there since the machine obliterates those
even if you add them at the correct time.

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

On Sun 29 Jan 2006 10:15:51p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The Bubbo?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Sun 29 Jan 2006 09:57:16p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it The
>> Bubbo?
>
>>>
>>> Can it do the subsequent kneads?
>>> My issue is that I have yet another cyst in my median nerve just as it
>>> enters the carpal tunnel. That means more surgery (probably in March)
>>> but it also means that I have a lot of weakness in my right hand as
>>> well as loss of sensation. It's the third time for me, it's kind of a
>>> pain. I pretty much can't knead dough with any effectiveness.
>>
>> Ouch! Well, almost all of the kneading is done in the mixer prior to
>> the first rise. After that, punch down followed by very little
>> kneading (just a couple of turns), then second rise, then punch down,
>> form and bake. Same thing for those breads that have a third rise.
>> The subsequent kneading isn't much more than punching down and a couple
>> of turns afterward.
>>
>> I have never owned a bread machine, so I may be wrong, but I'm guessing
>> the "subsequent kneadings" you're referring to are mainly performing
>> the same taks as punching down with a couple of turns afterward.
>>
>
> on mine it kneads it together, lets it rest, kneads, rises, punches,
> rises, kneads, rises bakes (I think that's the order, maybe there's one
> more punch in there, there's definitely a long knead in the middle).
>
> one thing I would like to be able to do is take the dough out and knead
> in chunky ingredients and bake from there since the machine obliterates
> those even if you add them at the correct time.
>

Can't you remove the dough before the bake cycle and knead in the
additions? You could either return it to the machine for baking, or bake
in the oven. Quite a few folks only use the machine for everthing but the
bake cycle. Kneading in additions isn't too labor intensive, as the dough
is already fully developed by then.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>>
>
> Can't you remove the dough before the bake cycle and knead in the
> additions? You could either return it to the machine for baking, or bake
> in the oven. Quite a few folks only use the machine for everthing but the
> bake cycle. Kneading in additions isn't too labor intensive, as the dough
> is already fully developed by then.
>

yeah, i'm debating kneading in the additions and returning it to bake in the
machine or just baking it in the oven. It makes excellent dough, I use it for
my focaccia and my buns

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:42:03 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Thanks for the wonderful pictures. There's nothing I like more than
> >pictures of bread-baking. I envy you with all your cultures going. It's
> >great inspiration.
> >Dee Dee
> >
> I think I can dry some & send it by mail, if you want. I have never
> tried it, but that is how Carl's starter is sent to those who want it.
>
> Boron

Oooh, Oooh, May I please have some? with instructions? Sounds like
fun!
This address is live.
maxine in ri

On 30 Jan 2006 11:36:56 -0800, "maxine in ri" >
wrote:

>
>Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:42:03 -0500, "Dee Randall"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Thanks for the wonderful pictures. There's nothing I like more than
>> >pictures of bread-baking. I envy you with all your cultures going. It's
>> >great inspiration.
>> >Dee Dee
>> >
>> I think I can dry some & send it by mail, if you want. I have never
>> tried it, but that is how Carl's starter is sent to those who want it.
>>
>> Boron
>
>Oooh, Oooh, May I please have some? with instructions? Sounds like
>fun!
>This address is live.
>maxine in ri


If you want some of mine, I will dry some & send it. Email me with
your snail-mail addy & I'll dry some over next weekend and do it. Rye
or white based or both?


If you want a tried & true, surefire starter, you want Carl's, for the
"price" of a SASE (that is 39 cents more expensive than mine), try
he

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

The advantage of Carl's is that you get all the instructions in Word
or pdf format online, I have no instructions. I'd have to wing it.

The other adventurous thing to do is start one, 2 tbsp of water & 2
tbsps of flour, left in a tupperware on the counter, toss half -
3/4ths each day and replenish with 2+2.

Then you could what I do...make some, get some from Carl's and then
scrounge bakeries. IT is all fun!

Again, drop me a line with any requests or questions.

Boron

> The other adventurous thing to do is start one, 2 tbsp of water & 2
> tbsps of flour, left in a tupperware on the counter, toss half -
> 3/4ths each day and replenish with 2+2.
>
> Boron
>
Boron, what does 2+2 represent? 2T water and 2 TB flour?
Thanks,
Dee Dee

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:00:18 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>
>> The other adventurous thing to do is start one, 2 tbsp of water & 2
>> tbsps of flour, left in a tupperware on the counter, toss half -
>> 3/4ths each day and replenish with 2+2.
>>
>> Boron
>>
>Boron, what does 2+2 represent? 2T water and 2 TB flour?
>Thanks,
>Dee Dee
>


For me, yes,,,2 tablespoons of each. Some prefer a starter of pancake
consistency, others prefer one that is more firm. This is my own
method, but there are detailed instructions in the sourdough FAQ. Find
things from he
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

Boron