On 28 Feb 2017 15:19:37 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2017-02-28, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> It's pretty damn scary on this side of the pond, too, Janet.
>
>*****NEWS FLASH*****
>
>Zombies Cancel Zombie Apocalypse After Election Reveals America Has No
>Brains!
>
>*********
>
>nb

Lol - funny!

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:36:53 PM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:32:37 PM UTC-10, Jill McQuown wrote:
> > On 2/27/2017 8:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > On 2017-02-27 8:02 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> Places like Starbucks will have a business model that doesn't
> > >> necessarily cater to the desires/needs of old folks. Get used to it.
> > >> The new generation is taking over. Hopefully, we taught our children
> > >> well.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Really?? Their business model actually planned to give free wifi to
> > > people who come and spend less than $2 on a coffee and then sit there
> > > are a table for four people for 2-3 hours?
> >
> > He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
> > devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
> > or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
> >
> > Jill
>
> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just have
> an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8" straight up in
> the air and move it forward.
>
> ====
>
> When you find out to report back ;-)
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

I'd ask my sons but one of them has a bad back so that's out. My brothers-in-laws installed the unit. They live in Oroville next to the dam that could just fall apart so they might be back. That would be strange.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:52:41 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2017-02-28 9:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> that scare-bait over and over again, with such success.
>>
>> It's not just Trump, though. He's building on what's
>> been on right-wing talk radio for years.
>>
>> You know, we've gone through this before, with the Irish,
>> Italians, Jews, etc. But now we've got the 24/7/365 news
>> cycle to bring the dangers of the "other" to our eyes and
>> ears all the darned time.
>>
>> I'm of the opinion that the people who fear (for example)
>> Muslims the most are ones who never encounter any in their
>> daily lives. I have a hard time believing that the people
>> who own the ethnic market where I buy my lentils want to
>> do anything beside run their store, raise their children,
>> and enjoy life just like everybody else.
>
>
>Don't think of it so much as fearing them as rejecting their values.
>Many of them, like the treatment of women, run counter to the progress
>that women have made over the years. There is this ridiculous notion
>that legitimate concerns about the attitudes and behaviour of some of
>the more zealous members being labelled Islamophobic, as if it is some
>sort of mental disorder. This is a culture in which we see too many
>cases of "honour killing" of girls and women.
>
>I am no fan of the Trumpster, but it should be pointed out that his
>travel ban was imposed of citizens of a number of countries which have
>been subject to a lot of unrest and from which a lot of Islamist
>terrorists have come. Those countries all happen to have majority Muslim
>populations. There are lots of Muslim countries that are not on the
>list. For that matter, I am wondering why Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are
>not also on it. Saudi Arabia is the home country of most of the 9/11
>terrorists, and SA and Pakistan are the homelands of many of the
>Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan.

Dave Smith revealed -

There has been one 'honour' killing that I know of, in your province
too. Several years ago now.

On 2/28/2017 6:45 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>
> Funny we should be talking about fast-food jobs. Wendy's isn't
> reducing the number of burger flippers it employs, but it is putting
> in self-serve ordering kiosks, thus reducing the number of order-takers
> it employs. Initially, they plan to retain the order-takers and make
> them burger-flippers, although I couldn't find information on whether
> that means reduced hours for both current burger-flippers and those
> being transitioned from order taking.
>
> I see that the kiosks cost $15,000 and Wendy's expects to break even
> in two years, suggesting that an order-taker makes $7,500 per year.
> Probably one of those industries that are unwilling to give employees
> more than part-time hours so that they don't have to provide health
> insurance.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
Prices would have to increase of course so if only one place did it
they would lose out to the competition.

The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
treatment.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:35:00 AM UTC-10, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> > Subject: I went to McDonalds
> > From: Cindy Hamilton >
> > Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> >
> > On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:18:58 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> > > On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:10:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 2/27/2017 11:30 AM, Bruce wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Why a car? When I first started out, I had roommates and no car. I
> > > >>> took the bus or hoofed it.
> > > >>
> > > >> Why not a car? We're talking about someone who has a full-time job..
> > > >> They should be able to afford a basic car.
> > > >>
> > > >Depends on where you live. In the city it is easy to catch a bus but
> > > >very expensive to keep a car. In Boston or New York you can pay more
> > > >for a parking space than a two bedroom apartment in the suburbs.
> > >
> > > Would parking be paid where the flipper lives? And when at work (s)he
> > > can park at the parking lot of the fast food joint.
> > >
> > > >> The US has always had a problem with giving its people affordable
> > > >> healthcare. I don't know why this is so hard.
> > > >>
> > > >Simple actually. The people that make the decisions and laws about
> > > >healthcare are middle to upper income and have good coverage. They
> > > >don't see the need to fix things for others, nor are they willing to pay
> > > >towards it.
> > >
> > > In other western countries, a politician who doesn't want to give
> > > everybody affordable healthcare, won't be elected. The US is also a
> > > democracy.
> >
> > Voters don't want to pay for it. We are not required to vote.
> > Millions of people who would benefit from affordable healthcare
> > simply do not bother to vote, or vote against their own self-interest
> > because they have taken the populist bait that the most important
> > thing in America is that the "other" in our society are scary and
> > we must thwart them.
> >
> :-( To outsiders, it's just incredible to watch Trump manipulating
> that scare-bait over and over again, with such success.
>
> Janet UK
>
>
>
> Janet.

This tactic was used to great effect in Europe. It's now America's turn. People should be alarmed at a guy that whose first order of business is to take down the poorest and weakest members our society. Unfortunately, people are stupid. That's the breaks.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:52:41 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

snip
>
>I am no fan of the Trumpster, but it should be pointed out that his
>travel ban was imposed of citizens of a number of countries which have
>been subject to a lot of unrest and from which a lot of Islamist
>terrorists have come. Those countries all happen to have majority Muslim
>populations. There are lots of Muslim countries that are not on the
>list. For that matter, I am wondering why Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are
>not also on it. Saudi Arabia is the home country of most of the 9/11
>terrorists, and SA and Pakistan are the homelands of many of the
>Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan.

-0- have been from banned countries. Look it up. Choose any news
source except Breitbart or its offspring.
This source just happens to be the first one on the list when I
searched 'how many terrorists from banned countries'
http://people.com/politics/donald-tr...us-statistics/
I don't know how you could have missed this information as it has been
all over any news day and night since the ban went into effect. It is
the big deal behind the legal challenge to the ban, pointing out that
all the ban accomplishes is targeting Muslims.

Janet US

On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
>> devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
>> or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
>>
>> Jill
>
> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
> have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
> straight up in the air and move it forward.
>
> ====
>
> When you find out to report back ;-)
>
>
I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
business.

Jill

On 2017-02-28 8:37 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/28/2017 6:45 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>
>> Funny we should be talking about fast-food jobs. Wendy's isn't
>> reducing the number of burger flippers it employs, but it is putting
>> in self-serve ordering kiosks, thus reducing the number of order-takers
>> it employs. Initially, they plan to retain the order-takers and make
>> them burger-flippers, although I couldn't find information on whether
>> that means reduced hours for both current burger-flippers and those
>> being transitioned from order taking.
>>
>> I see that the kiosks cost $15,000 and Wendy's expects to break even
>> in two years, suggesting that an order-taker makes $7,500 per year.
>> Probably one of those industries that are unwilling to give employees
>> more than part-time hours so that they don't have to provide health
>> insurance.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.

What it boils down to is that if a company is only profitable if it pays
starvation wages, it isn't a viable business!

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 6:02:51 AM UTC-10, Jill McQuown wrote:
> On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> > "dsi1" wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
> >> devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
> >> or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
> > have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
> > straight up in the air and move it forward.
> >
> > ====
> >
> > When you find out to report back ;-)
> >
> >
> I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
> hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
> business.
>
> Jill

I'll add people that repair things and poor people to the list of things you don't care for. Also Crocs and flip-flops.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:37:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
snip
>
>The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
>be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
>month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
>it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
>those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
>treatment.

exactly. A benefit of higher wages is that wage earners spend more in
the community and the community benefits in increased profit. And, as
you pointed out there is less of a burden on tax-paid welfare
services.
Janet US

Ophelia wrote:
> "tert in seattle" wrote in message
> ...
>
> barbie gee wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017, tert in seattle wrote:
>>
>>> here's what I got when I ordered a McChicken from the value menu
>>>
>>> http://ftupet.com/~tert/img/stuff/food/mcd/mcchx.jpg
>>>
>>> I left it at the high resolution so you can marvel at whatever the hell
>>> is going on in there
>>>
>>> it tasted just like it looks
>>
>> It's a chicken patty, lettuce, mayo and pickles.
>> I kinda like it, because it's got a nice peppery flavor going on.
>
> I've had better McDonalds's chix sandwiches. This one seemed to have
> a higher proportion of meat glue. Seems like I had them that were
> actual meat before.
>
> It's not exactly easy to figure out what's on the menu because it
> keeps switching and it's not obvious what the combo prices are. At
> least the two people helping with our order were patient with my
> hard of hearing dad.
>
>=====
>
> Did you actually eat it all after you hand photographed it?

it was either that or hunger

I know my limits

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2017-02-27 8:02 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 1:59:30 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Of course we support kicking mooches out of their dining areas. I
>>> wrote in another post about the reason I don't go out of my way to
>>> go to Starbucks because there is usually nowhere to sit down for my
>>> coffee and snack because all the tables are taken up by people
>>> sitting there with their laptops mooching the free wifi.
>>> Restaurants have ever reason to reserve their limited seating for
>>> paying customers.
>>
>> Places like Starbucks will have a business model that doesn't
>> necessarily cater to the desires/needs of old folks. Get used to it.
>> The new generation is taking over. Hopefully, we taught our children
>> well.
>>
>
> Really?? Their business model actually planned to give free wifi to
> people who come and spend less than $2 on a coffee and then sit there
> are a table for four people for 2-3 hours?

obviously you have never been to a Starbucks

On 2017-02-28 10:29 AM, wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:52:41 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2017-02-28 9:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> that scare-bait over and over again, with such success.
>>>
>>> It's not just Trump, though. He's building on what's
>>> been on right-wing talk radio for years.
>>>
>>> You know, we've gone through this before, with the Irish,
>>> Italians, Jews, etc. But now we've got the 24/7/365 news
>>> cycle to bring the dangers of the "other" to our eyes and
>>> ears all the darned time.
>>>
>>> I'm of the opinion that the people who fear (for example)
>>> Muslims the most are ones who never encounter any in their
>>> daily lives. I have a hard time believing that the people
>>> who own the ethnic market where I buy my lentils want to
>>> do anything beside run their store, raise their children,
>>> and enjoy life just like everybody else.
>>
>>
>> Don't think of it so much as fearing them as rejecting their values.
>> Many of them, like the treatment of women, run counter to the progress
>> that women have made over the years. There is this ridiculous notion
>> that legitimate concerns about the attitudes and behaviour of some of
>> the more zealous members being labelled Islamophobic, as if it is some
>> sort of mental disorder. This is a culture in which we see too many
>> cases of "honour killing" of girls and women.
>>
>> I am no fan of the Trumpster, but it should be pointed out that his
>> travel ban was imposed of citizens of a number of countries which have
>> been subject to a lot of unrest and from which a lot of Islamist
>> terrorists have come. Those countries all happen to have majority Muslim
>> populations. There are lots of Muslim countries that are not on the
>> list. For that matter, I am wondering why Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are
>> not also on it. Saudi Arabia is the home country of most of the 9/11
>> terrorists, and SA and Pakistan are the homelands of many of the
>> Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan.
>
> Dave Smith revealed -
>
> There has been one 'honour' killing that I know of, in your province
> too. Several years ago now.
>


As far as you know? Well, that's because you don't know enough. There
has been more than that. I was not limiting it to my province. It is bad
enough if it happens anywhere in my country or anywhere in the world.

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:36:53 PM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:32:37 PM UTC-10, Jill McQuown wrote:
> > On 2/27/2017 8:13 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > On 2017-02-27 8:02 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> Places like Starbucks will have a business model that doesn't
> > >> necessarily cater to the desires/needs of old folks. Get used to it.
> > >> The new generation is taking over. Hopefully, we taught our children
> > >> well.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Really?? Their business model actually planned to give free wifi to
> > > people who come and spend less than $2 on a coffee and then sit there
> > > are a table for four people for 2-3 hours?
> >
> > He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
> > devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
> > or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
> >
> > Jill
>
> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
> have
> an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8" straight up in
> the air and move it forward.
>
> ====
>
> When you find out to report back ;-)
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

I'd ask my sons but one of them has a bad back so that's out. My
brothers-in-laws installed the unit. They live in Oroville next to the dam
that could just fall apart so they might be back. That would be strange.

===

You could rig up a hoist?



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"jmcquown" wrote in message news
On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
>> devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
>> or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
>>
>> Jill
>
> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
> have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
> straight up in the air and move it forward.
>
> ====
>
> When you find out to report back ;-)
>
>
I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
business.

Jill

===

Or save money!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"tert in seattle" wrote in message
...

Ophelia wrote:
> "tert in seattle" wrote in message
> ...
>
> barbie gee wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017, tert in seattle wrote:
>>
>>> here's what I got when I ordered a McChicken from the value menu
>>>
>>> http://ftupet.com/~tert/img/stuff/food/mcd/mcchx.jpg
>>>
>>> I left it at the high resolution so you can marvel at whatever the hell
>>> is going on in there
>>>
>>> it tasted just like it looks
>>
>> It's a chicken patty, lettuce, mayo and pickles.
>> I kinda like it, because it's got a nice peppery flavor going on.
>
> I've had better McDonalds's chix sandwiches. This one seemed to have
> a higher proportion of meat glue. Seems like I had them that were
> actual meat before.
>
> It's not exactly easy to figure out what's on the menu because it
> keeps switching and it's not obvious what the combo prices are. At
> least the two people helping with our order were patient with my
> hard of hearing dad.
>
>=====
>
> Did you actually eat it all after you hand photographed it?

it was either that or hunger

I know my limits

====

<g>



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:37:09 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/28/2017 6:45 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> >
> > Funny we should be talking about fast-food jobs. Wendy's isn't
> > reducing the number of burger flippers it employs, but it is putting
> > in self-serve ordering kiosks, thus reducing the number of order-takers
> > it employs. Initially, they plan to retain the order-takers and make
> > them burger-flippers, although I couldn't find information on whether
> > that means reduced hours for both current burger-flippers and those
> > being transitioned from order taking.
> >
> > I see that the kiosks cost $15,000 and Wendy's expects to break even
> > in two years, suggesting that an order-taker makes $7,500 per year.
> > Probably one of those industries that are unwilling to give employees
> > more than part-time hours so that they don't have to provide health
> > insurance.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
> Prices would have to increase of course so if only one place did it
> they would lose out to the competition.
>
> The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
> be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
> month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
> it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
> those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
> treatment.

I'm not saying that it would necessarily be bad if we
had true national health insurance or if employers
had to provide it for their employees. (I'm not a
public policy wonk, so I don't know what the effects
would be.) All I'm really saying is that we don't
have the political will to do it. Politicians are
so afraid they won't get re-elected that they won't
take a chance that later everybody will say, "Gosh,
that's nice. Why didn't we do it sooner?"

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017, Janet wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
>> Subject: I went to McDonalds
>> From: Cindy Hamilton >
>> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:18:58 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:10:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/27/2017 11:30 AM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why a car? When I first started out, I had roommates and no car. I
>>>>>> took the bus or hoofed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not a car? We're talking about someone who has a full-time job.
>>>>> They should be able to afford a basic car.
>>>>>
>>>> Depends on where you live. In the city it is easy to catch a bus but
>>>> very expensive to keep a car. In Boston or New York you can pay more
>>>> for a parking space than a two bedroom apartment in the suburbs.
>>>
>>> Would parking be paid where the flipper lives? And when at work (s)he
>>> can park at the parking lot of the fast food joint.
>>>
>>>>> The US has always had a problem with giving its people affordable
>>>>> healthcare. I don't know why this is so hard.
>>>>>
>>>> Simple actually. The people that make the decisions and laws about
>>>> healthcare are middle to upper income and have good coverage. They
>>>> don't see the need to fix things for others, nor are they willing to pay
>>>> towards it.
>>>
>>> In other western countries, a politician who doesn't want to give
>>> everybody affordable healthcare, won't be elected. The US is also a
>>> democracy.
>>
>> Voters don't want to pay for it. We are not required to vote.
>> Millions of people who would benefit from affordable healthcare
>> simply do not bother to vote, or vote against their own self-interest
>> because they have taken the populist bait that the most important
>> thing in America is that the "other" in our society are scary and
>> we must thwart them.
>>
> :-( To outsiders, it's just incredible to watch Trump manipulating
> that scare-bait over and over again, with such success.

How do you think us "insiders" who can see this happening feel?

On 2017-02-28 10:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:37:09 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
>> Prices would have to increase of course so if only one place did it
>> they would lose out to the competition.
>>
>> The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
>> be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
>> month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
>> it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
>> those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
>> treatment.
>
> I'm not saying that it would necessarily be bad if we
> had true national health insurance or if employers
> had to provide it for their employees. (I'm not a
> public policy wonk, so I don't know what the effects
> would be.) All I'm really saying is that we don't
> have the political will to do it. Politicians are
> so afraid they won't get re-elected that they won't
> take a chance

Afraid or in the pockets of the lobbyists?

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:02:44 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
>>> devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
>>> or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
>> have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
>> straight up in the air and move it forward.
>>
>> ====
>>
>> When you find out to report back ;-)
>>
>>
>I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
>hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
>business.

So now we're morally obliged to have other people fix things that we
can fix ourselves, just so they don't go out of business? Talk about a
croc(k)!

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 03:49:03 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:18:58 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:10:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/27/2017 11:30 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Why a car? When I first started out, I had roommates and no car. I
>> >>> took the bus or hoofed it.
>> >>
>> >> Why not a car? We're talking about someone who has a full-time job.
>> >> They should be able to afford a basic car.
>> >>
>> >Depends on where you live. In the city it is easy to catch a bus but
>> >very expensive to keep a car. In Boston or New York you can pay more
>> >for a parking space than a two bedroom apartment in the suburbs.
>>
>> Would parking be paid where the flipper lives? And when at work (s)he
>> can park at the parking lot of the fast food joint.
>>
>> >> The US has always had a problem with giving its people affordable
>> >> healthcare. I don't know why this is so hard.
>> >>
>> >Simple actually. The people that make the decisions and laws about
>> >healthcare are middle to upper income and have good coverage. They
>> >don't see the need to fix things for others, nor are they willing to pay
>> >towards it.
>>
>> In other western countries, a politician who doesn't want to give
>> everybody affordable healthcare, won't be elected. The US is also a
>> democracy.
>
>Voters don't want to pay for it. We are not required to vote.

Most of the western world doesn't have has compulsory voting either.
Australia being a notable exception.

>Millions of people who would benefit from affordable healthcare
>simply do not bother to vote, or vote against their own self-interest
>because they have taken the populist bait that the most important
>thing in America is that the "other" in our society are scary and
>we must thwart them.

I guess there's truth in the saying that people get the government
they deserve.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:42 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:35:00 AM UTC-10, Janet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>> > Subject: I went to McDonalds
>> > From: Cindy Hamilton >
>> > Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>> >
>> > Voters don't want to pay for it. We are not required to vote.
>> > Millions of people who would benefit from affordable healthcare
>> > simply do not bother to vote, or vote against their own self-interest
>> > because they have taken the populist bait that the most important
>> > thing in America is that the "other" in our society are scary and
>> > we must thwart them.
>> >
>> :-( To outsiders, it's just incredible to watch Trump manipulating
>> that scare-bait over and over again, with such success.
>>
>This tactic was used to great effect in Europe.

Yes, in the UK. The fear factor. "They're coming! Close all the doors!
And the windows!" Right wing thrives on fear.

Le Pen's doing it in France, but she'll never win the second round.
The French have more common sense. Wilders in the Netherlands. No
chance either.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:37:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 2/28/2017 6:45 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>
>> Funny we should be talking about fast-food jobs. Wendy's isn't
>> reducing the number of burger flippers it employs, but it is putting
>> in self-serve ordering kiosks, thus reducing the number of order-takers
>> it employs. Initially, they plan to retain the order-takers and make
>> them burger-flippers, although I couldn't find information on whether
>> that means reduced hours for both current burger-flippers and those
>> being transitioned from order taking.
>>
>> I see that the kiosks cost $15,000 and Wendy's expects to break even
>> in two years, suggesting that an order-taker makes $7,500 per year.
>> Probably one of those industries that are unwilling to give employees
>> more than part-time hours so that they don't have to provide health
>> insurance.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
>I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
> Prices would have to increase of course so if only one place did it
>they would lose out to the competition.
>
>The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
>be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
>month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
>it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
>those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
>treatment.

I find this very strange thinking: "If we don't pay them a fair wage,
it's going to cost us money. So let's not." The politics of
selfishness.

Or Cindy's reasoning: "Rather than pay 2 workers a fair wage, it's
better to underpay them, so that you can afford to hire a 3rd
underpaid worker."

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:05:04 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 2017-02-28 8:37 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
>
>What it boils down to is that if a company is only profitable if it pays
>starvation wages, it isn't a viable business!

Yes, the voice of reason.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:02:11 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
> On 2017-02-28 10:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:37:09 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>
> >>
> >> I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
> >> Prices would have to increase of course so if only one place did it
> >> they would lose out to the competition.
> >>
> >> The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
> >> be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
> >> month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
> >> it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
> >> those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
> >> treatment.
> >
> > I'm not saying that it would necessarily be bad if we
> > had true national health insurance or if employers
> > had to provide it for their employees. (I'm not a
> > public policy wonk, so I don't know what the effects
> > would be.) All I'm really saying is that we don't
> > have the political will to do it. Politicians are
> > so afraid they won't get re-elected that they won't
> > take a chance
>
> Afraid or in the pockets of the lobbyists?

Sorry, forgot about that one. In addition to the overt effect
that lobbyists have, special-interest groups like the insurance
industry have a lot of money and a lot of power. They can
convince voters that national health insurance would mean
that faceless government bureaucrats would make voters'
health-care decisions for them. It doesn't seem to bother
people that faceless insurance-company bureaucrats make
those decisions under our current system.

Cindy Hamilton
power to

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:37:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> >On 2/28/2017 6:45 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Funny we should be talking about fast-food jobs. Wendy's isn't
> >> reducing the number of burger flippers it employs, but it is putting
> >> in self-serve ordering kiosks, thus reducing the number of order-takers
> >> it employs. Initially, they plan to retain the order-takers and make
> >> them burger-flippers, although I couldn't find information on whether
> >> that means reduced hours for both current burger-flippers and those
> >> being transitioned from order taking.
> >>
> >> I see that the kiosks cost $15,000 and Wendy's expects to break even
> >> in two years, suggesting that an order-taker makes $7,500 per year.
> >> Probably one of those industries that are unwilling to give employees
> >> more than part-time hours so that they don't have to provide health
> >> insurance.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> >
> >I wonder what would happen if they did give them the hours and benefits.
> > Prices would have to increase of course so if only one place did it
> >they would lose out to the competition.
> >
> >The typical fast food place has maybe 30 employees. Insuring them would
> >be maybe $15,000 a month. I have no idea how many items they sell in a
> >month and what it would add to an order of fries. If we don't pay for
> >it in the price of burgers, we pay for it in taxes or higher bills for
> >those of us that are insured when they show up at the ER and need
> >treatment.
>
> I find this very strange thinking: "If we don't pay them a fair wage,
> it's going to cost us money. So let's not." The politics of
> selfishness.
>
> Or Cindy's reasoning: "Rather than pay 2 workers a fair wage, it's
> better to underpay them, so that you can afford to hire a 3rd
> underpaid worker."

It's not my reasoning. You can see it in action all over
the country. Walmart and McDonald's are notorious for it.
"Let's hire 2 part-time workers. We'll get the same
productivity as 1 full-time worker and we don't have to
pay health insurance. And because they're not skilled
for any other job, they'll work for a pittance and we
can pocket the profit."

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:14:53 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> I find this very strange thinking: "If we don't pay them a fair wage,
>> it's going to cost us money. So let's not." The politics of
>> selfishness.
>>
>> Or Cindy's reasoning: "Rather than pay 2 workers a fair wage, it's
>> better to underpay them, so that you can afford to hire a 3rd
>> underpaid worker."
>
>It's not my reasoning. You can see it in action all over
>the country. Walmart and McDonald's are notorious for it.
>"Let's hire 2 part-time workers. We'll get the same
>productivity as 1 full-time worker and we don't have to
>pay health insurance. And because they're not skilled
>for any other job, they'll work for a pittance and we
>can pocket the profit."

This is where, at some point, the government has to step in. But
saying that in the US probably equates to devil worshipping.

On 2017-02-28 10:43 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:52:41 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> snip
>>
>> I am no fan of the Trumpster, but it should be pointed out that his
>> travel ban was imposed of citizens of a number of countries which have
>> been subject to a lot of unrest and from which a lot of Islamist
>> terrorists have come. Those countries all happen to have majority Muslim
>> populations. There are lots of Muslim countries that are not on the
>> list. For that matter, I am wondering why Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are
>> not also on it. Saudi Arabia is the home country of most of the 9/11
>> terrorists, and SA and Pakistan are the homelands of many of the
>> Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan.
>
> -0- have been from banned countries. Look it up. Choose any news
> source except Breitbart or its offspring.
> This source just happens to be the first one on the list when I
> searched 'how many terrorists from banned countries'
> http://people.com/politics/donald-tr...us-statistics/
> I don't know how you could have missed this information as it has been
> all over any news day and night since the ban went into effect. It is
> the big deal behind the legal challenge to the ban, pointing out that
> all the ban accomplishes is targeting Muslims.
>

I have read lots of reports about lots of terrorists from all of those
countries. You can't say that they aren't any just because incidents in
the US involved native born Americans.

On 2/28/2017 11:02 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "dsi1" wrote in message

>>
>> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
>> have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
>> straight up in the air and move it forward.
>>
>> ====
>>
>> When you find out to report back ;-)
>>
>>
> I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
> hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
> business.
>
> Jill


Nor do I. I just repaired the spare refrigerator for $58. To call an
appliance repairman would have cost $175. The $115. difference will
most likely be spent at some other local business. I do my own repairs,
but I did pay to have a tree taken down and for others to be trimmed. I
know my limits. Used to do my own oil changes but now find it easier to
pull out a few bills than crawl under the car.

I certainly don't feel obligated to hire out services.

On 2/28/2017 3:14 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>
> It's not my reasoning. You can see it in action all over
> the country. Walmart and McDonald's are notorious for it.
> "Let's hire 2 part-time workers. We'll get the same
> productivity as 1 full-time worker and we don't have to
> pay health insurance. And because they're not skilled
> for any other job, they'll work for a pittance and we
> can pocket the profit."
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

So they hire 1 worker full time, pay a fair wage, give benefits. Where
does the other person now go? Is there a job available for him/her? As
for the profits, now would be lost as prices would go up to cover the
costs. Businesses have to make a profit.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:08:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 2/28/2017 3:14 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>
>> It's not my reasoning. You can see it in action all over
>> the country. Walmart and McDonald's are notorious for it.
>> "Let's hire 2 part-time workers. We'll get the same
>> productivity as 1 full-time worker and we don't have to
>> pay health insurance. And because they're not skilled
>> for any other job, they'll work for a pittance and we
>> can pocket the profit."
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
>So they hire 1 worker full time, pay a fair wage, give benefits. Where
>does the other person now go? Is there a job available for him/her? As
>for the profits, now would be lost as prices would go up to cover the
>costs. Businesses have to make a profit.

If a business can't afford to pay their workers an honest wage, that
business has no right to exist.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 15:53:30 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2017-02-28 10:43 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:52:41 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>> snip
>>>
>>> I am no fan of the Trumpster, but it should be pointed out that his
>>> travel ban was imposed of citizens of a number of countries which have
>>> been subject to a lot of unrest and from which a lot of Islamist
>>> terrorists have come. Those countries all happen to have majority Muslim
>>> populations. There are lots of Muslim countries that are not on the
>>> list. For that matter, I am wondering why Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are
>>> not also on it. Saudi Arabia is the home country of most of the 9/11
>>> terrorists, and SA and Pakistan are the homelands of many of the
>>> Islamist insurgency in Afghanistan.
>>
>> -0- have been from banned countries. Look it up. Choose any news
>> source except Breitbart or its offspring.
>> This source just happens to be the first one on the list when I
>> searched 'how many terrorists from banned countries'
>> http://people.com/politics/donald-tr...us-statistics/
>> I don't know how you could have missed this information as it has been
>> all over any news day and night since the ban went into effect. It is
>> the big deal behind the legal challenge to the ban, pointing out that
>> all the ban accomplishes is targeting Muslims.
>>
>
>I have read lots of reports about lots of terrorists from all of those
>countries. You can't say that they aren't any just because incidents in
>the US involved native born Americans.

I thought the subject was 'the travel ban.' In that case, there have
been no terrorists that came (immigrated) from those countries. I
suppose we could determine the ethnic origin of every person that
performed a bombing, mass shooting etc., and say that Germans,
Italians, Greeks and so forth should also be banned from entering the
US because they have done violence.
Janet US

On 2/28/2017 4:15 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:08:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 2/28/2017 3:14 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's not my reasoning. You can see it in action all over
>>> the country. Walmart and McDonald's are notorious for it.
>>> "Let's hire 2 part-time workers. We'll get the same
>>> productivity as 1 full-time worker and we don't have to
>>> pay health insurance. And because they're not skilled
>>> for any other job, they'll work for a pittance and we
>>> can pocket the profit."
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> So they hire 1 worker full time, pay a fair wage, give benefits. Where
>> does the other person now go? Is there a job available for him/her? As
>> for the profits, now would be lost as prices would go up to cover the
>> costs. Businesses have to make a profit.
>
> If a business can't afford to pay their workers an honest wage, that
> business has no right to exist.
>

True, but what is an honest wage? Certainly more than the Federal
Minimum.

That said, you did not answer the question. You lift one person, but
what happens to the other?

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:47:59 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 2/28/2017 4:15 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:08:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> So they hire 1 worker full time, pay a fair wage, give benefits. Where
>>> does the other person now go? Is there a job available for him/her? As
>>> for the profits, now would be lost as prices would go up to cover the
>>> costs. Businesses have to make a profit.
>>
>> If a business can't afford to pay their workers an honest wage, that
>> business has no right to exist.
>>
>
>True, but what is an honest wage? Certainly more than the Federal
>Minimum.

I think that if it's a full-time job, you should be able to live of
it, however basically.

>That said, you did not answer the question. You lift one person, but
>what happens to the other?

You want to underpay a worker, so you can hire another one who you'll
also underpay. That's no solution.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:50:51 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:47:59 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> >On 2/28/2017 4:15 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:08:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>
> >>> So they hire 1 worker full time, pay a fair wage, give benefits. Where
> >>> does the other person now go? Is there a job available for him/her? As
> >>> for the profits, now would be lost as prices would go up to cover the
> >>> costs. Businesses have to make a profit.
> >>
> >> If a business can't afford to pay their workers an honest wage, that
> >> business has no right to exist.
> >>
> >
> >True, but what is an honest wage? Certainly more than the Federal
> >Minimum.
>
> I think that if it's a full-time job, you should be able to live of
> it, however basically.
>
> >That said, you did not answer the question. You lift one person, but
> >what happens to the other?
>
> You want to underpay a worker, so you can hire another one who you'll
> also underpay. That's no solution.

Your solution would appear to be a $10 fast-food hamburger.
Pretty soon they won't be selling any burgers, and everybody
at the store will be unemployed.

I see that McDonald's profits were $1.40 per share of stock
last year. They appear to have paid a $2.72 dividend to
their shareholders in 2016. I can't quite make that math
work out, myself, but I'm not an accountant.

I wonder if I have any McDonald's stock in my retirement
account...


Cindy Hamilton

On 2/28/2017 4:50 PM, Bruce wrote:

>
>> That said, you did not answer the question. You lift one person, but
>> what happens to the other?
>
> You want to underpay a worker, so you can hire another one who you'll
> also underpay. That's no solution.
>

But what is the solution? One person supporting himself and another
with no job? Is that better than two marginal existence? One on welfare?

Nice to say everyone should get $20/hr or more but the money has to come
from somewhere. I don't have the answer either and it certainly is not
a simple one.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 14:02:22 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:50:51 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:47:59 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>> >On 2/28/2017 4:15 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:08:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> So they hire 1 worker full time, pay a fair wage, give benefits. Where
>> >>> does the other person now go? Is there a job available for him/her? As
>> >>> for the profits, now would be lost as prices would go up to cover the
>> >>> costs. Businesses have to make a profit.
>> >>
>> >> If a business can't afford to pay their workers an honest wage, that
>> >> business has no right to exist.
>> >>
>> >
>> >True, but what is an honest wage? Certainly more than the Federal
>> >Minimum.
>>
>> I think that if it's a full-time job, you should be able to live of
>> it, however basically.
>>
>> >That said, you did not answer the question. You lift one person, but
>> >what happens to the other?
>>
>> You want to underpay a worker, so you can hire another one who you'll
>> also underpay. That's no solution.
>
>Your solution would appear to be a $10 fast-food hamburger.

You're exaggerating. A lot.

>Pretty soon they won't be selling any burgers, and everybody
>at the store will be unemployed.

And again.

On 2/28/2017 3:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/28/2017 11:02 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>
>>>
>>> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
>>> have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
>>> straight up in the air and move it forward.
>>>
>>> ====
>>>
>>> When you find out to report back ;-)
>>>
>>>
>> I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
>> hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
>> business.
>>
>> Jill
>
>
> Nor do I. I just repaired the spare refrigerator for $58. To call an
> appliance repairman would have cost $175. The $115. difference will
> most likely be spent at some other local business. I do my own repairs,
> but I did pay to have a tree taken down and for others to be trimmed. I
> know my limits. Used to do my own oil changes but now find it easier to
> pull out a few bills than crawl under the car.
>
> I certainly don't feel obligated to hire out services.
>
I'm not saying he should feel he *has* to pay someone. But really,
would you got without a working stove/oven for several months? I've
gone without one during an electrical outage, cooking on a grill. But
if it's just plain broken, I'd be calling someone.

Jill

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:10:38 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>
>Sorry, forgot about that one. In addition to the overt effect
>that lobbyists have, special-interest groups like the insurance
>industry have a lot of money and a lot of power. They can
>convince voters that national health insurance would mean
>that faceless government bureaucrats would make voters'
>health-care decisions for them. It doesn't seem to bother
>people that faceless insurance-company bureaucrats make
>those decisions under our current system.
>
>Cindy Hamilton
>power to

My cousin, then a resident in San Francisco, was told to come back in
a month and he (her doctor) would recheck the lump she found in her
breast and see if it developed. She was so freaked she flew back to
the UK, saw her doc there and within a week had a mastectomy.

When back in SF she asked him why he had suggested waiting and he said
that was what the insurance company wanted. She said she preferred
major decisions be made by a qualified doctor, not an insurance clerk!

On 2017-02-28 11:02 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/28/2017 3:54 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> He's just trying to justify living life ruled by Google and electronic
>>> devices. Meanwhile, his stove is broken and he can't afford to repair
>>> or replace it. Perhaps free wifi can offer suggestions.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> I will fix it. I don't believe in hiring people to fix my stuff. I just
>> have an interesting technical problem: how to raise the stove 8"
>> straight up in the air and move it forward.
>>
>> ====
>>
>> When you find out to report back ;-)
>>
>>
> I'd love to hear how he repaired it himself. He doesn't believe in
> hiring people to fix things? Wow, that's one way to put people out of
> business.
>

There's nothing wrong with fixing things yourself. My grandfather was a
handyman and my father acquired a lot of his skills. I wish I had
acquired more of them from him. When I am faced with a problem in the
house my first reaction is to try to fix it myself. If I don't know, my
next step is to get a book or go online to learn about it. If I still
can't figure it out I will call in a professional.

Repair people are in the business of selling a needed service. If I can
do it myself their service is not needed. For example, my motorcycle
needs an oil change. I have something I can use to hoist it up. I then
have to remove the oil pan plug and the filter and let the oil drain
out.Then I smear a little clean oil on the O ring on the new filter and
turn it on my hand and snug it up and screw the drain plug back in, then
remove the dips stick and pour in 2 1/2 litres of oil and screw the
dipstick back in. It takes about 5 minutes to get the tools together,
another 5 minutes to get the bike elevated to get at the oil pan and
filter,2 minutes to drain the oil, 10 minutes to install the filter and
plug, 2 minutes to pour in the new oil, and another 2 minutes to get the
back off the hoist, 5 minutes to put the tools away.

That is less than a half hour of total work and there is nothing that is
physically or mentally demanding. It would take me longer than that to
take it to a shop, and the shop is going to charge me for at least one
hour labour at $80 an hour, plus parts. I can do the job myself and save
the $80.

I am going to need the valves adjusted soon. I don't know how to do
that. I could learn, but if I screw up it will cost me a lot more, so I
will take it to a professional.

I remodelled our kitchen more than 30 years ago. I called a plumber to
install the sink and it was going to cost over $300 at the time. Nuts to
that. I went out and bought the hardware I needed, under $100 at the
time. I read up on how to install a sink and completed the job in less
than half an hour.