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Old 20-06-2014, 07:34 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

w00t!!

Both my two fave chef knives are now sharper than a Wall Street
metrosexual on Friday night. Some guy in town, allegedly also a chef,
got tired of trying to find a knife sharpening biz for his knives, so
bought a commercial grade Swiss water-stone sharpening machine and he
does sharpening of most everything as a sideline. Only cost me $5 per
knife and they are now scary sharp. He's partial to Solingen knives,
which these both are, so he took extra care. No more dicing tomatoes
from the pulp side. Yay!

nb

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Old 20-06-2014, 10:26 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On 6/20/2014 1:34 PM, notbob wrote:
w00t!!

Both my two fave chef knives are now sharper than a Wall Street
metrosexual on Friday night. Some guy in town, allegedly also a chef,
got tired of trying to find a knife sharpening biz for his knives, so
bought a commercial grade Swiss water-stone sharpening machine and he
does sharpening of most everything as a sideline. Only cost me $5 per
knife and they are now scary sharp. He's partial to Solingen knives,
which these both are, so he took extra care. No more dicing tomatoes
from the pulp side. Yay!

nb


Sharp knives, that makes such a difference. Glad you found someone to
sharpen yours. We have a couple of knife sharpeners that we use, the
latest one is a Presto EverSharp that has different slots. He has used
it, bit I have not. It does a good job.

Becca

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Old 20-06-2014, 10:53 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On Friday, June 20, 2014 12:34:25 PM UTC-6, notbob wrote:
w00t!!



Both my two fave chef knives are now sharper than a Wall Street

metrosexual on Friday night. Some guy in town, allegedly also a chef,

got tired of trying to find a knife sharpening biz for his knives, so

bought a commercial grade Swiss water-stone sharpening machine and he

does sharpening of most everything as a sideline. Only cost me $5 per

knife and they are now scary sharp. He's partial to Solingen knives,

which these both are, so he took extra care. No more dicing tomatoes

from the pulp side. Yay!



nb


I love your analogy!!
My favorite knives are Hinkels. Sometimes DH or guests do something to them that messes up the edge. It takes a while, but I can get them back to where I want them. I use an Accusharp for day to day touch ups on the edge. I have a stone for when I have to get serious. My S-I-L has such crap for knives!! When I am going to be cooking at her house (Thanksgiving or Christmas) I take my own knives with me. Many years ago she was slicing a brisket, and I thought it was vary tender as she had no effort to slice it. Turns our she was slicing with the grain!! Simple is as simple does. But I love her.

DaleP
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Old 21-06-2014, 12:03 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved


"notbob" wrote in message
...
w00t!!

Both my two fave chef knives are now sharper than a Wall Street
metrosexual on Friday night. Some guy in town, allegedly also a chef,
got tired of trying to find a knife sharpening biz for his knives, so
bought a commercial grade Swiss water-stone sharpening machine and he
does sharpening of most everything as a sideline. Only cost me $5 per
knife and they are now scary sharp. He's partial to Solingen knives,
which these both are, so he took extra care. No more dicing tomatoes
from the pulp side. Yay!

nb


I have a Chef's Choice that does a good job, but...I use the "Edge of Glory'
the most, one of those as seen on tv things and it works great.

Cheri

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Old 21-06-2014, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notbob View Post
w00t!!

Both my two fave chef knives are now sharper than a Wall Street
metrosexual on Friday night. Some guy in town, allegedly also a chef,
got tired of trying to find a knife sharpening biz for his knives, so
bought a commercial grade Swiss water-stone sharpening machine and he
does sharpening of most everything as a sideline. Only cost me $5 per
knife and they are now scary sharp. He's partial to Solingen knives,
which these both are, so he took extra care. No more dicing tomatoes
from the pulp side. Yay!

nb
Yall really need to get away from those crazy kraut knives. Invest in some good Forschner Victornox models and get the sharpening steel which goes with it. I have pretty close to a full set that are prob 15 years old and if they aint sharp..you just slap in on the steel a few licks and a person is back in business. No need to call the Tinker. Old butcher had a big Foschner scimitar steak knife he used dairly for 20 years and never saw a whetrock or grinding wheel. Thats the brand all the butchers use.


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Old 22-06-2014, 03:55 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On 6/21/14, 4:38 PM, bigwheel wrote:

....if they aint sharp..you just slap in on the steel a few licks
and a person is back in business....


Steels (except diamond) don't sharpen; they simply re-align the
curled-over edge. Even butchers re-sharpen periodically.

-- Larry


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Old 22-06-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pltrgyst[_4_] View Post
On 6/21/14, 4:38 PM, bigwheel wrote:

....if they aint sharp..you just slap in on the steel a few licks
and a person is back in business....


Steels (except diamond) don't sharpen; they simply re-align the
curled-over edge. Even butchers re-sharpen periodically.

-- Larry
I like the straightening theory and have heard it all my life. I have reached the conclusion it dont apply to soft knives like Forscheners. Have seen some old Forshner curved boners which had been laid on the steel so many times the blade was about a half inch tall..meaning they were wearing away material in the sharpening process. Now on super hard Kraut knives the theory might be correct. Aint never bothered to desire to own one. Before buying my knives I checked with every live butcher in the Metro Mess. They all say buy Forschners so I did..lol. Never been sorry about it. I got the 12" Granton slicer..the 9" Chefs knife..the 6" curved boner..the paring knife and the steel to keep all sharp as a razor for around a hundred bucks which made it qualify for the free shipping. Get the Fibrox handles. Pros dont like wood handles.
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Old 22-06-2014, 11:40 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On 6/22/14, 2:13 PM, bigwheel wrote:

Steels (except diamond) don't sharpen; they simply re-align the
curled-over edge. Even butchers re-sharpen periodically.


I like the straightening theory and have heard it all my life. I have
reached the conclusion it dont apply to soft knives like Forscheners.


All it takes is a good magnifying glass to see it for yourself on
Forschners or any other knife.

According to Forschner, their knives are made from X50CrMoV15 steel with
a Rockwell hardness of 55-56. The standard or "classic" knife lines from
Lion Sabatiers, Wusthof, and Henckel knives are all spec'd at the same
Rockwell 56.They all use the same X50CrMoV15 stainless steel. Basically,
the only differences among all these blades are thickness, curve, and
bolster design. So far as harness and ability to hold an edge, they're
all the same.

Most Globals and the more exotic lines from German manufacturers are 58;
VG-10, Eden Damask and Henckel Miyabi steel knives are 60; Shuns are 60.

Some other Japanese knives are even harder. They generally use more
exotic alloys, selected specifically to allow sharpening to a finer edge.

....Get the Fibrox handles. Pros dont like wood handles.


Most lowly-paid kitchen staff use their own knife rolls, and choose
Forschner and the like primarily because of price -- that's all they can
afford, or all they want to put at risk in a commercial kitchen.

There are many high-end restaurants full of German and Japanese knives
with wood or similar (e.g., pakka or bamboo) handles.

I have several Forschners among my many knives. They're fine, but they
don't hold an edge any better than my German or French knives, and
certainly not as well as my Japanese knives.

What I like best about Forschner and Global chef's knives is that the
bolster does not come all the way down to the heel, so you can sharpen
the entire length of the blade.

-- Larry

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Old 23-06-2014, 01:16 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On 6/22/2014 5:40 PM, pltrgyst wrote:

What I like best about Forschner and Global chef's knives is that the
bolster does not come all the way down to the heel, so you can sharpen
the entire length of the blade.

-- Larry

I use Forschner knives because they are the best quality knives that fit
my hand. To me, there is no use buying more expensive knives if they
don't fit my hand comfortably. I have small hands and the Forschner
knives always have the right balance and grip for me. YMMV

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

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Old 23-06-2014, 03:41 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On Monday, June 23, 2014 8:40:22 AM UTC+10, pltrgyst wrote:
On 6/22/14, 2:13 PM, bigwheel wrote:

[...]
Some other Japanese knives are even harder. They generally use more
exotic alloys, selected specifically to allow sharpening to a finer edge.


.... or just high-carbon steel, which is hardly exotic. Can do HRC63 or so with high-carbon steel.

At those kinds of hardnesses, steels (i.e., "sharpening" steels) become pretty useless. But then the knives are hard enough so the edges don't roll.

....Get the Fibrox handles. Pros dont like wood handles.


Most lowly-paid kitchen staff use their own knife rolls, and choose
Forschner and the like primarily because of price -- that's all they can
afford, or all they want to put at risk in a commercial kitchen.


Food safety inspectors/auditors can be pretty down on wooden-handled knives (and wooden cutting boards, and wood in general). That's driven a lot of the non-wood handles for commercial knives. That, and plastic being cheap.

There are many high-end restaurants full of German and Japanese knives
with wood or similar (e.g., pakka or bamboo) handles.


Pakka-wood, being a resin-wood composite, is usually fine with food safety people. Not wood in their eyes.

I like wooden handles (a I don't have to worry about food safety inspectors).

What I like best about Forschner and Global chef's knives is that the
bolster does not come all the way down to the heel, so you can sharpen
the entire length of the blade.


All-the-way-to-the-heel bolsters is a funny way to make knives, but sort-of popular. At least we only have to deal with it in classic Western knives, not Chinese, Japanese, etc.


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Old 23-06-2014, 05:05 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:41:28 -0700 (PDT), Timo
wrote:

On Monday, June 23, 2014 8:40:22 AM UTC+10, pltrgyst wrote:

What I like best about Forschner and Global chef's knives is that the
bolster does not come all the way down to the heel, so you can sharpen
the entire length of the blade.


All-the-way-to-the-heel bolsters is a funny way to make knives, but sort-of popular. At least we only have to deal with it in classic Western knives, not Chinese, Japanese, etc.


Sorry, I don't get it. This is a classic Western knife.
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/im...nife_parts.jpg
What makes it hard to sharpen?

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
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Old 23-06-2014, 08:08 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On Monday, June 23, 2014 2:05:25 PM UTC+10, sf wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:41:28 -0700 (PDT), Timo

wrote:



On Monday, June 23, 2014 8:40:22 AM UTC+10, pltrgyst wrote:




What I like best about Forschner and Global chef's knives is that the


bolster does not come all the way down to the heel, so you can sharpen


the entire length of the blade.




All-the-way-to-the-heel bolsters is a funny way to make knives, but sort-of popular. At least we only have to deal with it in classic Western knives, not Chinese, Japanese, etc.




Sorry, I don't get it. This is a classic Western knife.

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/im...nife_parts.jpg

What makes it hard to sharpen?



--

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.


Compare these two:
http://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Classi...dp/B00009ZK08/
http://www.amazon.com/Global-G-2-inc...dp/B00005OL44/

Note the heel end of the blade. On the Wusthof (and the knife you showed), the bolster extends all the way to the edge. This stops you from sharpening the blade all the way to the heel. Exactly how close to the heel you can sharpen depends on how you sharpen, but generally you can't get all the way.

On the Global, no such problem. You can sharpen the entire length of the blade, from the tip all the way to the end of the heel.

It isn't a huge problem, but it can annoy.
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Old 23-06-2014, 12:22 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:08:34 -0700 (PDT), Timo
wrote:

On Monday, June 23, 2014 2:05:25 PM UTC+10, sf wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:41:28 -0700 (PDT), Timo

wrote:



On Monday, June 23, 2014 8:40:22 AM UTC+10, pltrgyst wrote:




What I like best about Forschner and Global chef's knives is that the


bolster does not come all the way down to the heel, so you can sharpen


the entire length of the blade.




All-the-way-to-the-heel bolsters is a funny way to make knives, but sort-of popular. At least we only have to deal with it in classic Western knives, not Chinese, Japanese, etc.




Sorry, I don't get it. This is a classic Western knife.

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/im...nife_parts.jpg

What makes it hard to sharpen?



Compare these two:
http://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Classi...dp/B00009ZK08/
http://www.amazon.com/Global-G-2-inc...dp/B00005OL44/

Note the heel end of the blade. On the Wusthof (and the knife you showed), the bolster extends all the way to the edge. This stops you from sharpening the blade all the way to the heel. Exactly how close to the heel you can sharpen depends on how you sharpen, but generally you can't get all the way.

On the Global, no such problem. You can sharpen the entire length of the blade, from the tip all the way to the end of the heel.

It isn't a huge problem, but it can annoy.


Thanks, so that little bump on the end is the issue? I guess I've
learned how to sharpen "close enough". Over time, I've discovered
that I don't use the entire blade for cutting anyway - so that bump is
no big deal for me. I sharpen as close to the handle end as I can and
get on with it.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
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Old 23-06-2014, 05:18 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On 2014-06-22, bigwheel wrote:

shipping. Get the Fibrox handles. Pros dont like wood handles.


Well then, I'm glad I'm not a pro.

My two fave knives are a LamsonSharp Rosewood and some unknown carbon
steel paring knife with an OXO-huge wooden handle. The handles
encounter enough grease/oil to keep them preserved. But, if I think
the wood handles might be drying out, I oil 'em with walnut oil. The
Lamson is now almost 20 yrs old and shows no signs of splitting,
drying, etc. I've owned Forschners, Fibrox, Globals, Shuns, Tridents,
Wustofs, Messingmeisters, Sabatiers, etc, and the Rosewood line is
still my fave handle of them all. The only wood handle knife I ever
gave away was a 12" Sheffield bread knife, but only cuz the negative
scalloped blade was pain to sharpen. Also, since it never cut meat
and saw no fats, the wood had dried out and a small piece had split
off near a rivet. This knife was given to me and was the first
commercial knife I ever owned.

nb
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Old 23-06-2014, 09:21 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Sharp knife problem solved

On Monday, June 23, 2014 9:22:36 PM UTC+10, sf wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:08:34 -0700 (PDT), Timo wrote:

Note the heel end of the blade. On the Wusthof (and the knife you showed), the bolster extends all the way to the edge. This stops you from sharpening the blade all the way to the heel. Exactly how close to the heel you can sharpen depends on how you sharpen, but generally you can't get all the way.

[...]
It isn't a huge problem, but it can annoy.


Thanks, so that little bump on the end is the issue? I guess I've
learned how to sharpen "close enough". Over time, I've discovered
that I don't use the entire blade for cutting anyway - so that bump is
no big deal for me. I sharpen as close to the handle end as I can and
get on with it.


Sharp all the way to the end is minor. The bolster stops you from cutting with the very end of the blade, anyway. If you sharpen on a stone, and want to go to a more acute edge angle, it's in the way. If you sharpen a lot, enough to remove a significant part of the width of the blade over time, then the heel will stick out, and stop the blade near the heel from making contact with the cutting board. A good design will help here - make the blade so that the base of the blade and the end of the bolster is a little higher, maybe 1-2mm (my Wusthof is like this).

So, as you say, not a big deal. If it was, maybe they'd have stopped doing it, since there's very little benefit in such a full width bolster. The only benefit is to provide a wider surface for the finger to sit against if you hold it in such a way that the finger is up against the base of the blade.. OTOH, it makes some other knife holding styles less comfortable.

The real purpose of such a bolster is to conspicuously advertise that the knife is forged, not stamped from sheet metal.


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