We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
So what about truffles in olive oil?
Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
flavoured oil does not.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reids > wrote in
:

> We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
> So what about truffles in olive oil?
> Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
> flavoured oil does not.

the flavoured truffle oil probably has preservatives to prevent botulism
(such os absorbic acid), or the truffles were taken to a high heat in the
oil. This is my guess without seeing the label.
--
Starchless in Manitoba.

The Reids > wrote in
:

> We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
> So what about truffles in olive oil?
> Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
> flavoured oil does not.

the flavoured truffle oil probably has preservatives to prevent botulism
(such os absorbic acid), or the truffles were taken to a high heat in the
oil. This is my guess without seeing the label.
--
Starchless in Manitoba.

In message >, The Reids
> writes
>We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
>So what about truffles in olive oil?
>Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
>flavoured oil does not.

I haven't a clue to the answer but would be interested to read the reply
of someone who has.
--
June Hughes

In message >, The Reids
> writes
>We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
>So what about truffles in olive oil?
>Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
>flavoured oil does not.

I haven't a clue to the answer but would be interested to read the reply
of someone who has.
--
June Hughes

In article >,
The Reids > wrote:

> We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
> So what about truffles in olive oil?
> Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
> flavoured oil does not.


Same problem.

<http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/consu.../foodfacts_199
8/foodfacts_may_1998.htm>

"Recently [circa 1998] there have been two clinical cases of botulism,
one fatal, linked to family members who ate home-preserved mushrooms
bottled in oil. The mushrooms were obtained as a gift while traveling in
Italy and the family ate the mushrooms without heating. Mushrooms are
commonly contaminated with C. botulinum spores and care must be taken to
properly process them in order to avoid creating a foodborne disease
hazard."

The section seems to group truffles and mushrooms (logically enough).
They're both high in moisture, have a soil origin, and a relatively
neutral pH; an anaerobic environment would certainly be conducive to
Clostridium botulinum growth.

Commercial infused oil products must be carefully acidified; I believe
antibacterial agents are also added.

--
to respond (OT only), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

In article >,
The Reids > wrote:

> We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
> So what about truffles in olive oil?
> Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
> flavoured oil does not.


Same problem.

<http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/consu.../foodfacts_199
8/foodfacts_may_1998.htm>

"Recently [circa 1998] there have been two clinical cases of botulism,
one fatal, linked to family members who ate home-preserved mushrooms
bottled in oil. The mushrooms were obtained as a gift while traveling in
Italy and the family ate the mushrooms without heating. Mushrooms are
commonly contaminated with C. botulinum spores and care must be taken to
properly process them in order to avoid creating a foodborne disease
hazard."

The section seems to group truffles and mushrooms (logically enough).
They're both high in moisture, have a soil origin, and a relatively
neutral pH; an anaerobic environment would certainly be conducive to
Clostridium botulinum growth.

Commercial infused oil products must be carefully acidified; I believe
antibacterial agents are also added.

--
to respond (OT only), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

"The Reids" > wrote in message
...
> We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
> So what about truffles in olive oil?
> Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
> flavoured oil does not.
> --
> Mike Reid

Don't make it at home. If you like, next time you come to Italy, I can get
you invited to a truffle processing place. It's fairly small-time. This
isn't done in huge factories, but our local place is owned by a nice couple
who hire a few people.
Clearly, white truffle oil cannot be heated, and I detect no acid at all.
Could be some other distillation process, a double transfer or something.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:23:29 +0100, June Hughes
> wrote:

| In message >, The Reids
| > writes
| >We are told to not store garlic in olive oil because of botulism.
| >So what about truffles in olive oil?
| >Our various pastes seem to have a little vinegar in, but the
| >flavoured oil does not.
|
| I haven't a clue to the answer but would be interested to read the reply
| of someone who has.

<grabs books>
121 deg C for 3 mins, at the center of the food, called Botulinum Cook (BC)
and anaerobic conditions.

Clostridium Botulinum (CB) does not grow when oxygen is present, so soil
containing on CB, as it often does, on root vegetables causes no problems,
because it can not grow and produce Botulinum toxin. It is a very good idea
to wash soil off vegetables. to reduce the Botulinum contamination.

If one goes from aerobic conditions to Botulinum Cook and then stores in
anaerobic conditions: tinned, or stored in oil etc. you are quite safe.

************************************************** *****
* One can not do this reliably in a domestic kitchen *
************************************************** *****

This is why one should throw away blown cans. The professionals do not
*always* get it right. When bacteria grow in a can they produce gas and
the can blows. Those bacteria *may* be Clostridium Botulinum.

--
Dave F

Following up to Hahabogus

>or the truffles were taken to a high heat in the
>oil.

you cant do that with truffles, the technique is a mystery, it
seems!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Scott

>Commercial infused oil products must be carefully acidified; I believe
>antibacterial agents are also added.

Our truffle pastes usually have ascorbic or citric acid added,
the oils just say olive oil, truffle, from what I understand from
JU, Italians would get strung up on a meathook for not declaring
ingredients.

Ascorbic acid doesn't taste "acid" does it, so perhaps the answer
lies there somewhere. Good olive oil is noted for low acidity, so
I take that to indicate its not *highly* alkaline, I wonder how
far it is from the level at which botulism is inhibited.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Judith Umbria

> If you like, next time you come to Italy, I can get
>you invited to a truffle processing place.

I'll bring the raincoat with the big inside pockets and the false
arms :-)
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:36:07 +0100, The Reids >
wrote:

| Following up to Scott
|
| >Commercial infused oil products must be carefully acidified; I believe
| >antibacterial agents are also added.
|
| Our truffle pastes usually have ascorbic or citric acid added,
| the oils just say olive oil, truffle, from what I understand from
| JU, Italians would get strung up on a meathook for not declaring
| ingredients.
|
| Ascorbic acid doesn't taste "acid" does it, so perhaps the answer
| lies there somewhere. Good olive oil is noted for low acidity, so
| I take that to indicate its not *highly* alkaline, I wonder how
| far it is from the level at which botulism is inhibited.

The professionals *have* to get it right on botulism, or the EHOs come down
on them like a ton of bricks. Like they would have to do experiments to
prove that any system apart from the one I described, actually works.
They would probably have to infect some product with Botulinum store the
stuff for a year or two and prove that it had not grown. Impossible in a
domestic kitchen.

--
Dave F

"The Reids" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Scott
>
> >Commercial infused oil products must be carefully acidified; I believe
> >antibacterial agents are also added.
>
> Our truffle pastes usually have ascorbic or citric acid added,
> the oils just say olive oil, truffle, from what I understand from
> JU, Italians would get strung up on a meathook for not declaring
> ingredients.
>
> Ascorbic acid doesn't taste "acid" does it, so perhaps the answer
> lies there somewhere. Good olive oil is noted for low acidity, so
> I take that to indicate its not *highly* alkaline, I wonder how
> far it is from the level at which botulism is inhibited.
> --
> Mike Reid

Believe me, if there were ascorbic acid in it, it would be on the label.
Nowadays we have a law that says vegetables have to say what region they
come from even if they are Italian. Similarly, eggs are stamped with a code
that tells you what quality (battery, organic, freerange), region, town,
grower and even which of his henhouses it came from.
Honey must be marked if it has any non-Italian component, and if so, whether
it is EU source, non-EU but European, or outside of Europe.
The EU allows a small percentage of non-cocoa butter fat in chocolate, but
Italian chocolate makers have voluntarily decided that they will not do
this. Buy Italian chocolate for purity. Some of the biggest are adding
less sweet varieties given this opportunity to increase market. I went to
Eurochocolate yesterday and found that Novi, a big company, now makes dark
chocolate using only cacao from certain countries, so that you can buy
Ghana, Ecuador, Jamaica etc. It is very bitter compared to Italian.
Someone is also making bitter chocolate with hot chilis. This is an
explosion of change in an industry that previously made the sweetest and
least interesting chocolate.
I am convinced there is some kind of distillation involved with truffle oil.
I will meet this couple at the festival of the woods in Montone shortly and
I will ask. Whether I will thoroughly comprehend the answer is another
thing. We are getting way outside my usual venue in this subject.
In the land of DOP and DOC, every food has its story.

"The Reids" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Scott
>
> >Commercial infused oil products must be carefully acidified; I believe
> >antibacterial agents are also added.
>
> Our truffle pastes usually have ascorbic or citric acid added,
> the oils just say olive oil, truffle, from what I understand from
> JU, Italians would get strung up on a meathook for not declaring
> ingredients.
>
> Ascorbic acid doesn't taste "acid" does it, so perhaps the answer
> lies there somewhere. Good olive oil is noted for low acidity, so
> I take that to indicate its not *highly* alkaline, I wonder how
> far it is from the level at which botulism is inhibited.
> --
> Mike Reid

Believe me, if there were ascorbic acid in it, it would be on the label.
Nowadays we have a law that says vegetables have to say what region they
come from even if they are Italian. Similarly, eggs are stamped with a code
that tells you what quality (battery, organic, freerange), region, town,
grower and even which of his henhouses it came from.
Honey must be marked if it has any non-Italian component, and if so, whether
it is EU source, non-EU but European, or outside of Europe.
The EU allows a small percentage of non-cocoa butter fat in chocolate, but
Italian chocolate makers have voluntarily decided that they will not do
this. Buy Italian chocolate for purity. Some of the biggest are adding
less sweet varieties given this opportunity to increase market. I went to
Eurochocolate yesterday and found that Novi, a big company, now makes dark
chocolate using only cacao from certain countries, so that you can buy
Ghana, Ecuador, Jamaica etc. It is very bitter compared to Italian.
Someone is also making bitter chocolate with hot chilis. This is an
explosion of change in an industry that previously made the sweetest and
least interesting chocolate.
I am convinced there is some kind of distillation involved with truffle oil.
I will meet this couple at the festival of the woods in Montone shortly and
I will ask. Whether I will thoroughly comprehend the answer is another
thing. We are getting way outside my usual venue in this subject.
In the land of DOP and DOC, every food has its story.

Following up to Dave Fawthrop

> Like they would have to do experiments to
>prove that any system apart from the one I described, actually works.

They will no doubt have done so, as the one you describe in
inapplicable.

>They would probably have to infect some product with Botulinum store the
>stuff for a year or two and prove that it had not grown.

no doubt
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Judith Umbria

>I am convinced there is some kind of distillation involved with truffle oil.

seems most likely as the bottles say "essence" of, although I had
one with a fragment of truffle in.

>I will meet this couple at the festival of the woods in Montone shortly and
>I will ask. Whether I will thoroughly comprehend the answer is another
>thing. We are getting way outside my usual venue in this subject.

I'm sure you will get the general idea.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Judith Umbria

>I am convinced there is some kind of distillation involved with truffle oil.

seems most likely as the bottles say "essence" of, although I had
one with a fragment of truffle in.

>I will meet this couple at the festival of the woods in Montone shortly and
>I will ask. Whether I will thoroughly comprehend the answer is another
>thing. We are getting way outside my usual venue in this subject.

I'm sure you will get the general idea.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap