Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz wrote:

> Also the vast majority of little stores were mom-pops... their kids
> didn't want to work in the store

Didn't you write that YOUR parents had a mom & pop store, and you didn't
want to work there?


> nor did the mom-pops want their kids to work hard and struggle when they
> could become MDs, Lawyers, and CPAs.

But you never did become any of those things: What a disappointment you
turned out to be!

Bob

"Dave Smith" >
> Here goes:
>
> “>Here’s a cautionary tale for anyone thinking of making a purchace at
> walmart or sams based on price comparison.
>
> I wanted an inexpensive digital camera for my daughter. After finding one
> with the basic features I wanted, I went to sears, target and walmart to
> check prices. All 3 stores sold the a camera with the exact same model
> number. Sears -$119 target -$109 walmart - $99 . I bought it at the
> manufactures online store but when the camera was delivered it DID NOT
> have all the features that the Sears and Target salesperson had shown me
> (couldn’t get help at the Walmart store). I contacted the factory store
> and asked them if perhaps the one I got was an older version of this
> camera since the model number on the unit was the correct. The customer
> service agent apologized and said I must have gotten one of the “WALMART”
> cameras. These units were manufactured just for them with the same model
> number but with reduced features. So while the price was a little lower at
> walmart, the value was worse since it was a stripped down version.
>

This is second hand right? I've never actually seen this in reality, only
ever saw it as second or third hand information. What is the model number
and brand? Oh, they did not post that.

I've heard the same story about tools at the local hardware store. They
tell me the insides are different. I'd ask them to show me exactly what is
different and they resort to "the salesman told me" It would not be very
difficult take apart two drills and display the differences but no one ever
had. No photos of them either. I've yet to be give hard evidence, only
hearsay.

OK, who has the pictures to prove this? Camera, drill, saw, show me the
difference.

Some years back I bought an HP 855C printer. They also offered the 850C
through smaller retailers. I was at the HP facility in New Jersey where
they were packed and ask what the difference was. He told me it was the
screening of the model number and the extra software packed with the unit.
Yet people I know insisted the 855 was "better" because it was a newer
model.

Point me to the store that is displaying the differences in Wal-Mart, Home
Dept, Lowes or whoever products or a web site with the photos. Until them,
it is still BS. If it was fact, some retailer would be exploiting the
facts.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:38:40 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 2/21/2010 7:12 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> George wrote:
>>>> It doesn't have to be that black and white. Capitalism is a good thing
>>>> as long as the folks running enterprises have a moral compass. I think
>>>> walmart is indefensible.
>>>
>>> Capitalism makes some good things happen. WalMart is another matter. I
>>> will not shop there. I am less interested in saving a few dollars per
>>> week than I am in living in a Wally world. Sure you save a few bucks on
>>> their dumbed down products. Then you have to replace them, so you end up
>>> spending more. You are better off to pay a little more for a quality
>>> product that does not wear out as quickly.
>>
>> Would you care to give us some examples of these "dumbed down" products?
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.businessweek.com/innovate...is_be_tru.html
>
>NussbaumOnDesignCan This Be True Of Wal-Mart?
>Posted by: Bruce Nussbaum on February 04
>
>I print this comment about cameras and digital products sold by Wal-mart
>by a reader because it is so astounding. Please send in any of your own
>experiences. And Wal-Mart execs, I hope you are taking notes and making
>changes in the way you do business. The clock is ticking.
>
>Here goes:
>
>“>Here’s a cautionary tale for anyone thinking of making a purchace at
>walmart or sams based on price comparison.
>
>I wanted an inexpensive digital camera for my daughter. After finding
>one with the basic features I wanted, I went to sears, target and
>walmart to check prices. All 3 stores sold the a camera with the exact
>same model number. Sears -$119 target -$109 walmart - $99 . I bought it
>at the manufactures online store but when the camera was delivered it
>DID NOT have all the features that the Sears and Target salesperson had
>shown me (couldn’t get help at the Walmart store). I contacted the
>factory store and asked them if perhaps the one I got was an older
>version of this camera since the model number on the unit was the
>correct. The customer service agent apologized and said I must have
>gotten one of the “WALMART” cameras. These units were manufactured just
>for them with the same model number but with reduced features. So while
>the price was a little lower at walmart, the value was worse since it
>was a stripped down version.

A digicam in the $100 range isn't much of a camera anyway... that you
saved say 15% because it lacked a couple of features that no one ever
uses anyway means Walmart did you a big favor. I bought a Vizio TV
especially made for Walmart that reduced its price from $500 to $400
because it didn't have the picture in picture feature... the power of
Walmart saved me 20% by eliminating a feature I would never use on a
small (24") TV. When I called Vizio customer service on a different
issue, programming it to my cable company, they discussed how they
made the agreement with Walmart for eliminating the feature because on
such a small TV no one would use it and would much rather save the
$100.

Hey, no one prevented you from buying the POS cheapo camera at some
other store... by your own admission you were lured in by the small
saving and so bought it at Walmart because you're a cheap *******. LOL

The Vizio is a great TV, even the three different cable company
techies who have been here on different issues regarding my digi box
said they bought a Vizio too and love it... they said it's better than
Sony and costs half as much. The HD Vizio picture is gorgeous. I
don't for one minute feel that Walmart cheated me, I compliment them
for saving me a hundred bucks by eliminating a silly feature I'd never
use... and now that I've began using the Toggle feature I know that
I'd never use a picture in picture feature on any size TV.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:07:52 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > We have been trained to be a throw away society. Even large appliances are
> > throw away now as evidenced by the cost of a repair/replacement part that
> > can equal half the cost of a brand new unit.
>
> I think the only "throw-away-society" member *here* is Peter.

I think we all are at some level. For instance, I've spent about
$1000 fixing my refrigerator over the last six months. If I'd known
how much I was going to spend altogether in the first place, I would
have just bought a new one instead.

> Remember his bragging that he replaces all his furniture and
> appliances every few years, whether they need replacing or not?
>
No. That may have been back when I didn't know how to KF spoofers and
not the spoofee. Are you sure it wasn't a spoofer who said it?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:44:08 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:36:13 -0500, Goomba >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Why should they be forced to pay more than the mom & pop store down the
> >> road pays their unskilled labor? These aren't high paying jobs no matter
> >> where they are.... why do we blame Wallyworld for that?
> >
> > What I don't understand is how a supposed health care professional
> > fails to grasp the importance of health insurance.
> >
> http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/
> >
>
> It is not just Wal-Mart, but most other retailers, especially the M & P
> stores that offer no benefits. My grandson is working for a car dealer and
> gets minimum wage for the state (higher than the Federal) and had less
> benefits than even WM offers. Better jobs are non-existent right now. When
> business dropped, he was laid off from a retail store that was just as bad
> with zero benefits. At least now he has Sunday off.
>
> Take a look at this from the web site you noted:
>
> Your local Wal-Mart costs your community up to $420,000 per year
>
> These costs come in the form of many public assistance programs. A 2004
> study found that one Wal-Mart store cost taxpayers $108,000/year for
> children's health care and $42,000 per year for low-income housing
> assistance. ["How Wal-Mart Has Used Public Money in Your State," Good Jobs
> First 2007]
>
>
> If those people did not work at WM, where would they be working and how much
> would it cost the community? Perhaps even more if they don't have any jobs
> at all. Perhaps something would be done if people stopped focusing on one
> store and are oblivious to what else is going on around them.
>
> Fact is, business have no incentive to pay higher wages because they have
> plenty of people willing to work for what is now being offered. How many
> people here are tipping wait staff over 15% just to be sure they make a
> decent living? And some of these same people cheer on sports figures and
> the $100 million contracts.
>
Agree on all points. It's a sad state of affairs.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
said...
:
:"Bogbrush" > wrote in message
:> I buy my food in one. Because they forced the closure of all the local
:> small shops and I dont drive.
:
:How did they force the closure? I bet it was a blockade and armed guards
:keeping the regular customers away. Did they have tanks or just barbed wire
:around the entrance?

Ever heard of predatory pricing?
I guess you think walmart wouldn't engage is such practices... Don't
bother with your predictable response.

"Jeßus" > wrote in message
> Ever heard of predatory pricing?
> I guess you think walmart wouldn't engage is such practices... Don't
> bother with your predictable response.

Very aware of it. Went to a new supermarket yesterday that opened a couple
of weeks ago. Took advantage of the bargains while they last. Once
established, the prices will creep up.

A Shell gas station in the next town has been 10¢ a gallon higher in price
than the Shell in our town. Been that way for 29+ years that I'm ware of.
They closed and did a tear down and rebuild. They opened up and were 10¢
lower than the station here in town. Soon it was only a nickel difference.
A couple of week later it was the same. I went by this morning and they are
back to 10¢ higher again. I guess they got their customer base back. I
don't care as I never went there anyway as I can save 20¢ buying in MA
instead of CT

When a new funeral home opened in or town a few years back, the other two
long established funeral homes sued them, sued the zoning board and tried
every possible way to prevent them from opening. Yes, these small local
and allegedly caring businesses fought to keep out competition and keep
prices and profit up. They made Wal-Mart look like kiddy stuff by comparison
to their actions.

In article >,
said...
:
:"Jeßus" > wrote in message
:> Ever heard of predatory pricing?
:> I guess you think walmart wouldn't engage is such practices... Don't
:> bother with your predictable response.
:
:Very aware of it. Went to a new supermarket yesterday that opened a couple
f weeks ago. Took advantage of the bargains while they last. Once
:established, the prices will creep up.
:
:A Shell gas station in the next town has been 10¢ a gallon higher in price
:than the Shell in our town. Been that way for 29+ years that I'm ware of.
:They closed and did a tear down and rebuild. They opened up and were 10¢
:lower than the station here in town. Soon it was only a nickel difference..
:A couple of week later it was the same. I went by this morning and they are
:back to 10¢ higher again. I guess they got their customer base back. I
:don't care as I never went there anyway as I can save 20¢ buying in MA
:instead of CT
:
:When a new funeral home opened in or town a few years back, the other two
:long established funeral homes sued them, sued the zoning board and tried
:every possible way to prevent them from opening. Yes, these small local
:and allegedly caring businesses fought to keep out competition and keep
rices and profit up. They made Wal-Mart look like kiddy stuff by comparison
:to their actions.


I don't think anyone was suggesting small businesses are immune from
unethical practices, I can think of plenty examples myself. But these
huge national/international retailers are another matter entirely.

I guess your main point has been that most people choose to shop at
places like Walmart because of the low prices, thus it's not Walmart's
fault the smaller retailer go to the wall. Fair enough - that is true.
But that IMO doesnt excuse the likes of Walmart for the way they conduct
their business, there should be stronger laws to protect the
wholesalers/manufactuers, etc. who are negatively affected. All of which
eventually comes back to haunt the majority typical consumers by way of
shoddy goods and crap service.

Back on the subject of the public choosing

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "Dave Smith" >
>> Here goes:
>>
>> “>Here’s a cautionary tale for anyone thinking of making a purchace at
>> walmart or sams based on price comparison.
>>
>> I wanted an inexpensive digital camera for my daughter. After finding
>> one with the basic features I wanted, I went to sears, target and
>> walmart to check prices. All 3 stores sold the a camera with the exact
>> same model number. Sears -$119 target -$109 walmart - $99 . I bought
>> it at the manufactures online store but when the camera was delivered
>> it DID NOT have all the features that the Sears and Target salesperson
>> had shown me (couldn’t get help at the Walmart store). I contacted the
>> factory store and asked them if perhaps the one I got was an older
>> version of this camera since the model number on the unit was the
>> correct. The customer service agent apologized and said I must have
>> gotten one of the “WALMART” cameras. These units were manufactured
>> just for them with the same model number but with reduced features. So
>> while the price was a little lower at walmart, the value was worse
>> since it was a stripped down version.
>>
>
> This is second hand right? I've never actually seen this in reality,
> only ever saw it as second or third hand information. What is the model
> number and brand? Oh, they did not post that.
>
> I've heard the same story about tools at the local hardware store. They
> tell me the insides are different. I'd ask them to show me exactly what
> is different and they resort to "the salesman told me" It would not be
> very difficult take apart two drills and display the differences but no
> one ever had. No photos of them either. I've yet to be give hard
> evidence, only hearsay.
>
> OK, who has the pictures to prove this? Camera, drill, saw, show me the
> difference.


I purchased my Canon $$$ camera in a WalMart. It is no different from
the same model camera purchased anywhere else. It was also no cheaper
than anywhere else. I was trying to hold off for a few months on buying
the new model, so I had already priced it out at several places,
including on-line. We wee on a car trip when my camera quit so I stopped
in a WalMart in the town we were in for the night and bought the camera.

I do know that manufacturers make the "same" product with slightly
different model numbers for some of the big chains because the chains
ask for it so that shoppers can't take advantage of the cost comparison
provisions.


--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

sf wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:00:48 -0700, "<RJ>" > wrote:
>> It's interesting to read all the WalMart bashing.
>>
>
> Think about this: A worldwide chain that has *one* store the size of
> three football fields and takes in $70,000,000 a year can afford to
> offer it's *own* branded health care to employees and they could use
> Kaiser Permante as a model.
>

There was a time when employers used good benefits packages to entice
the best workers. Today there fewer jobs and many workers for each job.
They can afford to offer a self-insured healthcare plan, but they don't
have any incentive to do so, so they don't.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz blathered:

> There are many US made products that are of highest quality and that
> are improved upon continuously. Farberware cookware is inexpensive bu
> t of far better quality and utility than any megabucks All-Crap pot.

Farberware is made in China nowadays, ignoramus. Try harder to keep up with
the rest of the class, will you, Pussy?

Bob

sf wrote about Peter:

>> Remember his bragging that he replaces all his furniture and
>> appliances every few years, whether they need replacing or not?
>>
> No. That may have been back when I didn't know how to KF spoofers and
> not the spoofee. Are you sure it wasn't a spoofer who said it?

It was in early 2007, before the rash of spoofers we're seeing now.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...2609dc4b7fee60

Bob

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:29:44 -0800, sf > wrote:

>We have a membership but don't go very often. Basics like toilet
>paper are in such huge packages these days that it's ridiculous for
>two of us. We go every so often to get nice steaks, lamb chops etc
>but it's not a #1 destination the way it was when our kids were still
>at home and we entertained a lot more often.

I agree with this to a point. It's also just the two of us, but the
annual fee isn't huge - $50, IIRC. And, yeah, the basics like toilet
paper are in big packages, but we buy them b/c if you'll notice, the
big packages such as Charmin, which is our TP of choice, comes in
larger rolls than you can get at the market. And triple packs of Crest
mouthwash, which we prefer, also get used a lot. The stuff we use a
lot that Costco carries is worth finding some storage space. As Barb S
sez, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. For instance, we're
moving into a new house in mid-March and are jettisoning our patio
furniture. Been moved too many times and beaten up. I found some cool
looking patio furniture for the new place at amazing prices. We'll
have to borrow the SIL's truck, but what we save on those pieces alone
will be worth the price of our annual membership. And we occasionally
trip over the *great* crab legs sale - whoo hoo! good stuff. Just
mosey over to the reefers and grab some butter. Dinner toNIGHT!

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

---

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:52:12 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> sf wrote about Peter:
>
> >> Remember his bragging that he replaces all his furniture and
> >> appliances every few years, whether they need replacing or not?
> >>
> > No. That may have been back when I didn't know how to KF spoofers and
> > not the spoofee. Are you sure it wasn't a spoofer who said it?
>
> It was in early 2007, before the rash of spoofers we're seeing now.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...2609dc4b7fee60
>

TY


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jeßus" > wrote in message
>
> I guess your main point has been that most people choose to shop at
> places like Walmart because of the low prices, thus it's not Walmart's
> fault the smaller retailer go to the wall. Fair enough - that is true.

Yes, that is my point. Lack of customers is what forces people to go out of
business.


> But that IMO doesnt excuse the likes of Walmart for the way they conduct
> their business, there should be stronger laws to protect the
> wholesalers/manufactuers, etc. who are negatively affected. All of which
> eventually comes back to haunt the majority typical consumers by way of
> shoddy goods and crap service.

If the manufacturers had t he balls to say "no", they would not be in
trouble from lack of profits. Ther own greed is what causes the problems.
Do a


http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...t_pricing.html
Vlasic Pickles was roped into a contract with Wal-Mart, in which Wal-Mart
sold a 3 gallon jar of whole pickles for $2.97. Wal-Mart sold 240,000
gallons of pickles per week. But the price of the 3 gallon jar was so low,
that it vastly undercut Vlasic's sales of 8 ounce and 16 ounce jars of cut
pickles; further, Vlasic only made a few pennies per 3 gallon jar. With its
profits tumbling, Vlasic asked Wal-Mart for the right to raise the price per
3 gallon jar to $3.49, and according to a Vlasic executive, Wal-Mart
threatened that if Vlasic tried to back out of this feature of the contract,
Wal-Mart would cease carrying any Vlasic product. Eventually, a Wal-Mart
executive said, "Well, we've done to pickles what we did to orange juice.
We've killed it"-meaning it had wiped out competitor products. Finally, it
allowed Vlasic to raise prices; but in January 2001, Vlasic filed for
bankruptcy.

Then read
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...n_snapper.html
Every year, thousands of executives venture to Bentonville, Arkansas, hoping
to get their products onto the shelves of the world's biggest retailer. But
Jim Wier wanted Wal-Mart to stop selling his Snapper mowers.
much snipped
"As I look at the three years Snapper has been with you," he told the vice
president, "every year the price has come down. Every year the content of
the product has gone up. We're at a position where, first, it's still priced
where it doesn't meet the needs of your clientele. For Wal-Mart, it's still
too high-priced. I think you'd agree with that.

"Now, at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it.
And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money. I could do that and
not go out of business. But we have this independent-dealer channel. And 80%
of our business is over here with them. And I can't put them at a
competitive disadvantage. If I do that, I lose everything. So this just
isn't a compatible fit."

"Ed Pawlowski" > writes:

> "Jeßus" > wrote in message
>>
>> I guess your main point has been that most people choose to shop at
>> places like Walmart because of the low prices, thus it's not Walmart's
>> fault the smaller retailer go to the wall. Fair enough - that is true.
>
> Yes, that is my point. Lack of customers is what forces people to go out of
> business.

And you worked that out all on your ownsome. Well done Brain D'Ed!

Now lets look at what causes lack of customers.

Hmmm.

Maybe some huge corpo like Walmart feeding off relocation grants and
"back to work" incentives and cheap labour in order to undercut the
opposition and thus gain their customers?

Yes! We're getting there!

See if you can join the dots.

If you get stuck give me a holla.

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:

> I agree with this to a point. It's also just the two of us, but the
> annual fee isn't huge - $50, IIRC. And, yeah, the basics like toilet
> paper are in big packages, but we buy them b/c if you'll notice, the
> big packages such as Charmin, which is our TP of choice, comes in
> larger rolls than you can get at the market.

That's something I neglected to mention. When you try to compare
prices, often you are comparing apples to oranges in that the
box of tissues (or the container of moisturizer or vitamins or whatever)
are larger than the size you're comparing to the supermarket product.
Those boxes of tissues, they contain 300 tissues, not 280 or however
many the large size usually holds. Gold Bond, 16.8 oz compared to
the usual 14.

> And triple packs of Crest
> mouthwash, which we prefer, also get used a lot. The stuff we use a
> lot that Costco carries is worth finding some storage space. As Barb S
> sez, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. For instance, we're
> moving into a new house in mid-March

Congratulations on the new place.

> and are jettisoning our patio
> furniture. Been moved too many times and beaten up. I found some cool
> looking patio furniture for the new place at amazing prices. We'll
> have to borrow the SIL's truck, but what we save on those pieces alone
> will be worth the price of our annual membership. And we occasionally
> trip over the *great* crab legs sale - whoo hoo! good stuff. Just
> mosey over to the reefers and grab some butter. Dinner toNIGHT!

I never seem to be at Costco when they have seafood, I'm going to
have to make an effort to get those crab legs, it's been a while.
You know, since you gave me a craving and all.

nancy

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:47:19 -0500, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:

>On 2/21/2010 7:12 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>> It doesn't have to be that black and white. Capitalism is a good thing
>>> as long as the folks running enterprises have a moral compass. I think
>>> walmart is indefensible.
>>
>> Capitalism makes some good things happen. WalMart is another matter. I
>> will not shop there. I am less interested in saving a few dollars per
>> week than I am in living in a Wally world. Sure you save a few bucks on
>> their dumbed down products. Then you have to replace them, so you end up
>> spending more. You are better off to pay a little more for a quality
>> product that does not wear out as quickly.
>
>Would you care to give us some examples of these "dumbed down" products?
>
>
I am not sure that "dumbing down" is the correct term for this, but
when I looked at a chuck roast in Walmart, it had an ingredients
list. Chuck roast does not have ingredients. In this case it was
bouillon added.

I also decided to check the prices of toilet paper and paper towels
around here. In all cases Walmart rolls were a number of sheets
shorter than the others. Brawny Pic a Size Walmart had 110
sheets/roll, 3 roll/package, $3.12/package. The grocery stores had
147 sheets/roll, 6 roll/package and priced between $6.98 and
$8.20/package. Cottonelle toilet paper, Walmart 308 sheets/roll and
the grocery stores 351. One of the grocery stores was higher than WM
but the other one lower. The rolls were not enough smaller to be
obvious just by looking. You had to actually figure it out and most
people do not bother to do it. Maybe not an exhaustive search, but
these are product we use.

I am sure that there are many more examples if one really looks and
does comparisons.



--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

brooklyn1 wrote:

> There are many US made products that are of highest quality and that
> are improved upon continuously. Farberware cookware is inexpensive bu
> t of far better quality and utility than any megabucks All-Crap pot.
>
[snip] Interestingly, I am pondering getting a small set of
Farberware's stainless steel pots and pans as a starter for my
induction cooktop. I have a few miscellaneous items I can use,
but obviously everything is going to have to be SS--and flat! It
seems like getting the little (and cheap) set would be a quick way
to become functional, and I can augment that as needed later.

The Farberware doesn't seem to be too flimsy, and it has insulated
handles! I also like the configuration of the lids better than
most one sees now. All-Clad is much too heavy for me, except for
smaller pieces, and the price is outrageous.
--
Jean B.

sf wrote:
> Sky was telling me how railroad right of ways have been converted to
> bike paths in her area. Wouldn't that be nice? Interurban bike
> trails, what a concept!
>

That has happened in my town and several towns around here. In
another town, a new bypass road was constructed on an old RR ROW.
Very nice.

--
Jean B.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently
opposed. Third, it is accepted as being
self-evident. --Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

On 2/22/2010 6:25 AM, Bogbrush wrote:
> "Ed > writes:
>
>> > wrote in message
>>>
>>> I guess your main point has been that most people choose to shop at
>>> places like Walmart because of the low prices, thus it's not Walmart's
>>> fault the smaller retailer go to the wall. Fair enough - that is true.
>>
>> Yes, that is my point. Lack of customers is what forces people to go out of
>> business.
>
> And you worked that out all on your ownsome. Well done Brain D'Ed!
>
> Now lets look at what causes lack of customers.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Maybe some huge corpo like Walmart feeding off relocation grants and
> "back to work" incentives and cheap labour in order to undercut the
> opposition and thus gain their customers?


But what advantage could it be getting a free site, not paying to
develop it, not paying for the infrastructure (road, utilities, traffic
signals etc) and a 9 year tax exemption and then being able to repeat it
when the 9 years burns out? (9 years is what walmart gets in PA)


>
> Yes! We're getting there!
>
> See if you can join the dots.
>
> If you get stuck give me a holla.

On 2/21/2010 6:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "George" > wrote in message
>>
>> Look around? Remember we used to have industrial parks filled with
>> businesses humming away manufacturing stuff?
>
> They moved to China because we don't want $15 toasters, we want $7
> toasters. If another store opens up and sells $6 toasters, we'll all
> start to shop there.

Not really, lots of folks have common sense and know buying a $7 toaster
every year is only good for walmart.

On 22/02/2010 12:10 PM, brooklyn1 wrote:

<snip>
>
> Obviously you don't work, you have no marketable skills, and your
> bitch has tiny tits.

It's even more obvious that, since you can't argue your case, you are
forced to resort to insults. A sad reflection on your intellect indeed!

Krypsis

On 2/20/2010 11:44, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Nonsense, one can always find space for non-perishables... no law says
> a 24 pack of TP can't be opened and spread about... I always keep a
> roll in my car, I 'rearly' use it but sure is handy when you gotta
> pull off at the side of the road and head into the woods... and I'd
> think females would keep like 2-3 rolls in their car, and a 24 pack in
> the trunk! LOL My mom never went anywhere without he rroll of TP in
> her handbag... in fact she'd remove the 3/4 used rolls from the
> bathroom because they more easily fit in her handbags.

My grandmother did that. She kept them in her handbag to use in public
restrooms because she didn't like the TP in most of them.



> Another thing I learned from mom
> was to remove bar soap from their wrappers and store them in my
> clothes drawers, made nice smelling pomanders and when the soap dried
> it would last longer... I must have dozens of bars of soap in my
> clothes drawers and plenty in the linen closet.

Awwwww, Shelly. How dainty!

Stu wrote:
>brooklyn1 wrote:
>>Stu wrote:
>>>
>>>Toilet paper (we buy Scott) are in 35 roll packs, we buy two and are
>>>set for six + months.
>>
>>I've never seen a 35 roll pack.
>
>Costco here has them, bought some last week

I'm not from Missouri but show me anyhoo...

I'm not saying it can't be but I've never seen any brand of TP in a 35
pack.. so I'm giving you every opportunity to redeem yourself... maybe
you can search more better.
I searched: http://tinyurl.com/ybqa2w3
http://www.costco.com/Common/Search....scott%20tissue
N=0&Ntt=scott%20tissue&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US

Okee Dokee, I'll give you EVERY opportunity to redeem yourself:
http://www.scottcommonsense.com/Scott-Tissue/

Your turn, STUPINOCCHIO.

On 2/21/2010 9:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:36:13 -0500, Goomba >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why should they be forced to pay more than the mom & pop store down the
>>> road pays their unskilled labor? These aren't high paying jobs no matter
>>> where they are.... why do we blame Wallyworld for that?
>>
>> What I don't understand is how a supposed health care professional
>> fails to grasp the importance of health insurance.
>>
> http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/
>>
>
> It is not just Wal-Mart, but most other retailers, especially the M & P
> stores that offer no benefits. My grandson is working for a car dealer
> and gets minimum wage for the state (higher than the Federal) and had
> less benefits than even WM offers. Better jobs are non-existent right
> now. When business dropped, he was laid off from a retail store that was
> just as bad with zero benefits. At least now he has Sunday off.
>
> Take a look at this from the web site you noted:
>
> Your local Wal-Mart costs your community up to $420,000 per year
>
> These costs come in the form of many public assistance programs. A 2004
> study found that one Wal-Mart store cost taxpayers $108,000/year for
> children's health care and $42,000 per year for low-income housing
> assistance. ["How Wal-Mart Has Used Public Money in Your State," Good
> Jobs First 2007]
>
>
> If those people did not work at WM, where would they be working and how
> much would it cost the community? Perhaps even more if they don't have
> any jobs at all. Perhaps something would be done if people stopped
> focusing on one store and are oblivious to what else is going on around
> them.

And how much does that Wal-Mart that "costs" 420K a year _pay_ in taxes?
In CT if it does 7 million dollars a year it pays that back in sales
tax, then there's property tax, and various other taxes. The average
Wal-Mart sells more than 40 million a year so that 420,000 is paid back
many times over.

> Fact is, business have no incentive to pay higher wages because they
> have plenty of people willing to work for what is now being offered. How
> many people here are tipping wait staff over 15% just to be sure they
> make a decent living? And some of these same people cheer on sports
> figures and the $100 million contracts.

Entertainment "stars" too. I mean what has Will Smith done that makes
him worth 80 million dollars a year? Yeah, he can act a bit, but so can
a lot of other people who work hard at it all their lives and never see
more than union scale.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "Dave Smith" >
>> Here goes:
>>
>> “>Here’s a cautionary tale for anyone thinking of making a purchace at
>> walmart or sams based on price comparison.
>>
>> I wanted an inexpensive digital camera for my daughter. After finding
>> one with the basic features I wanted, I went to sears, target and
>> walmart to check prices. All 3 stores sold the a camera with the exact
>> same model number. Sears -$119 target -$109 walmart - $99 . I bought
>> it at the manufactures online store but when the camera was delivered
>> it DID NOT have all the features that the Sears and Target salesperson
>> had shown me (couldn’t get help at the Walmart store). I contacted the
>> factory store and asked them if perhaps the one I got was an older
>> version of this camera since the model number on the unit was the
>> correct. The customer service agent apologized and said I must have
>> gotten one of the “WALMART” cameras. These units were manufactured
>> just for them with the same model number but with reduced features. So
>> while the price was a little lower at walmart, the value was worse
>> since it was a stripped down version.
>>
>
> This is second hand right? I've never actually seen this in reality,
> only ever saw it as second or third hand information. What is the model
> number and brand? Oh, they did not post that.

Second hand to me because I read the article. J.Clarke asked for
examples of dumbed down products and I cited an article and quoted the
text.

On 2/21/2010 10:10 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "J. Clarke" > wrote in
>
>>
>> After the war when they became aware that their goods were identified
>> as low quality junk they formed an industry cooperative and government
>> agency to turn that image around, and they did.
>>
>> The question is whether the Chinese will do the same thing.
>
> They made junk because we bought junk. Then they wanted to make good
> stuff and the Americans taught them how do to it. They listened, we
> didn't. Statistical Process Control works.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

So how did they make the best fighter aircraft in the world, torpedoes
that did things that American military experts were sure could not be
done, the most powerful battleship ever built, a fleet of aircraft
carriers, and other little surprises for the US military more than a
decade before Deming imparted his wonderful expertise?

Sorry, but the notion that the Japanese were incapable of making high
quality goods before Deming taught them is not consistent with history.
He taught them to do something they were already good at _better_.

And if the reason they made "junk" was because "we bought junk" then why
did they want to stop making what sold?

You try to make high quality goods in a pile of burnt-out radioactive
rubble that used to be a factory and get back to us on how you make out.

The quality of their goods improved because they rebuilt their
infrastructure, not because Deming gave a few lectures. Sure, they used
what they learned from him, and what they learned from the Gilbreths a
couple of decades earlier, and what they learned from any other source
they could find. But none of that would have made a difference if they
didn't already have a perfectionistic attitude. They didn't just
listen, they took the ideas and ran with them.

Stu wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:19:07 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:

>> I never seem to be at Costco when they have seafood, I'm going to
>> have to make an effort to get those crab legs, it's been a while.
>> You know, since you gave me a craving and all.

> Our costco which is only ten minutes away has crab legs year round,
> and do a roaring business in it.

I found out the hard way, they only have the seafood station on
Thursday-Sunday(??) here. The rest of the week, no gots.

nancy

Janet Wilder wrote:
> sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:00:48 -0700, "<RJ>" > wrote:
>>> It's interesting to read all the WalMart bashing.
>>>
>>
>> Think about this: A worldwide chain that has *one* store the size of
>> three football fields and takes in $70,000,000 a year can afford to
>> offer it's *own* branded health care to employees and they could use
>> Kaiser Permante as a model.
>>
>
> There was a time when employers used good benefits packages to entice
> the best workers. Today there fewer jobs and many workers for each job.
> They can afford to offer a self-insured healthcare plan, but they don't
> have any incentive to do so, so they don't.
>


Doesn't ANYONE do things for humanitarian reasons now?

gloria P

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:15:41 -0700, "gloria.p" >
wrote:

> Janet Wilder wrote:
> > sf wrote:
> >> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:00:48 -0700, "<RJ>" > wrote:
> >>> It's interesting to read all the WalMart bashing.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Think about this: A worldwide chain that has *one* store the size of
> >> three football fields and takes in $70,000,000 a year can afford to
> >> offer it's *own* branded health care to employees and they could use
> >> Kaiser Permante as a model.
> >>
> >
> > There was a time when employers used good benefits packages to entice
> > the best workers. Today there fewer jobs and many workers for each job.
> > They can afford to offer a self-insured healthcare plan, but they don't
> > have any incentive to do so, so they don't.
> >
>
> Doesn't ANYONE do things for humanitarian reasons now?
>
Frankly, I never considered offering healthcare plans "humanitarian" -
just a good business practice if for any business that wants healthy
workers who show up on time. I pointed out that if Walmart doesn't
want to pay another company to manage employee healthcare, they're big
enough to form their own nonprofit, restricting it to employees and
their families.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:27:12 -0500, The Cook >
wrote:

> You had to actually figure it out and most
> people do not bother to do it. Maybe not an exhaustive search, but
> these are product we use.

Heh. That kind of thinking isn't just the Walmart mentality. I knew
someone who would brag about buying x number of steaks (for instance)
for xx price and I'd always have to say "yeah but how many pounds was
that?" She'd have absolutely *no* idea. It would always turn out
that her steaks were shoeleather thin. They probably chewed like
shoeleather too.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:19:04 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> Stu wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:19:07 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > > wrote:
>
> >> I never seem to be at Costco when they have seafood, I'm going to
> >> have to make an effort to get those crab legs, it's been a while.
> >> You know, since you gave me a craving and all.
>
> > Our costco which is only ten minutes away has crab legs year round,
> > and do a roaring business in it.
>
> I found out the hard way, they only have the seafood station on
> Thursday-Sunday(??) here. The rest of the week, no gots.
>
Mine carries seafood every day, but those special displays where
everything is fresh and on ice are just two days a week also.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf > wrote:

>Your idea is fine if they only want to attract neighborhood people to
>shop downtown, but if they want to attract the wider public for
>destination shopping - they need to provide more off street public
>parking, improve public transportation (provide on and off shuttles
>for one thing) and increase taxi availability. Same goes for every
>other city center.

So you can't wrap your mind around the idea of a city of millions
of people who is able to shop without driving private motor
vehicles?

It's not like it's never happened, and it is a close description
of quite a few cities even today, in the age of the automobile.

Steve

Dan Abel wrote:
> Janet Wilder > wrote:
>
> I have to wonder, though. After WWII, the Japanese were desperate to
> sell stuff. Anything. They had no time for development or quality
> control. "Made in Japan" was synonymous with "crap". Things are
> different now. My son bought a kitchen knife recently. US$200. Made
> in Japan.

Total quality management is a slow process, but it's as certain as can
be.

> The Chinese have come a *long* way in a *short* time. What will Chinese
> products be like in ten years? Fifty?

On the one hand they have the resources to out-Japanese the Japanese,
and labor price competition from India. On the other hand they have a
one child policy and are going to be facing a huge labor shortage very
soon.

"Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>
> Now lets look at what causes lack of customers.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Maybe some huge corpo like Walmart feeding off relocation grants and
> "back to work" incentives and cheap labour in order to undercut the
> opposition and thus gain their customers?
>
> Yes! We're getting there!
>
> See if you can join the dots.
>
> If you get stuck give me a holla.

No need to holla. Lack of customers comes from carrying poor inventory,
poor service, high prices, Look around barrybaby, see how many retailers
killed themselves too.

gloria.p wrote:
> sf wrote:
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>>> Most small retail stores started to die in the 1960's. They were done in by
>>> the combination of the Interstate Highway system and the shopping mall.
>>> Every year, more people decided to not go downtown, but to go to the mall
>>> instead. Where I live, the stores were pretty much gone long before Wal
>>> Mart and cheap goods existed.

It's the same dynamic as the manufacturing industry - One of the major
contributors to the change is improved transportation. In the case of
shopping the car has pushed shopping out into areas with parking space.

In the case of manufacturing the container ship has pushed manufacturing
worldwide for cheaper labor. It's only one reason of many, but it's one
that was not mentioned so far in the thread. The deal is the world is
no finite. At some point the entire world will have gone through the
evolution to higher wages, but it's problematic now while it's
happening. More developed nations are paying the developing nations
with jobs.

>> Downtowns are still shooting themselves in the foot, at least here.
>> They want shoppers but they don't want cars. They don't have enough
>> public parking lots; street parking almost non existent; traffic in
>> city center is restricted and parking meters only are not only
>> expensive - the hours are being pushed past 6PM to 10 or midnight in
>> some areas; public transportation is a nightmare for anyone off a main
>> line and taxis are not in abundance anywhere other than hotels and the
>> airport. It's no surprise shoppers prefer going to malls.
>
> In Denver an awful lot of downtown real estate is privately owned. The
> owners who do have parking lots charge a fortune to park or cater to
> motorists who rent on a monthly basis. Price per square foot is too
> expensive for most municipalities struggling with more important budget
> items.

So they can wait until enough places downtown go bust that they have
plenty of room for parking structures. Lots of shoppers will wait until
that's true. I watched it happen in Los Angeles in the 1980s and 1990s.
Now I live in Chicago metro and for the moment it's not happening
because the train system is so much better.

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:19:07 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

>I never seem to be at Costco when they have seafood, I'm going to
>have to make an effort to get those crab legs, it's been a while.
>You know, since you gave me a craving and all.

You're welcome - and they were soooo gooood! I'm still wipin'
clarified butter off the dining room table!

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

---

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:32:35 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Personally, if it was 1925, I'd probably be a union organizer; they were
> needed and did a lot of good. In 2010, I have no use for unions and have
> never belonged to one. I do my own negotiating and work where I want to
> work.

that's all well and good - apparently you have skills that are in demand.

however, if you *don't* have skills that are in demand, other than the
willingness to work (hard or not), it doesn't mean you deserve to be
treated like dirt. unions can help prevent that.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:28:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>> I buy my food in one. Because they forced the closure of all the local
>> small shops and I dont drive.
>
> How did they force the closure? I bet it was a blockade and armed guards
> keeping the regular customers away. Did they have tanks or just barbed wire
> around the entrance?

jeez, i thought all you conservative types at least pretended to savvy
economics.

blake