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In article >,
brooklyn1 > wrote:

> Of course too many
> people never throw anything away, more than half of what's stored in
> their abode they've never used and never will use... if folks would
> only toss out all their squirreled away crap they'd have plenty of
> room for storing things they will use.


Unfortunately, that's a very accurate statement!
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In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:57:24 -0600, Stu > wrote:
>
> > Javex diluted 50-50 with water in a spray bottle.

>
> As far as I can tell, that's straight bleach. Am I wrong?
>
> > We used this to kill mold in bathrooms before priming with zinsser.

>
> I want it for grout and was hoping to get away from straight bleach...
> it beats up my clothing.


Try a peroxide based bleach. It's easier on clothing.
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"Goomba" > wrote
> I don't shop at Walmart, but admittedly do shop at SamsClub.
> I refuse to set foot in a Walmart as not only do I worry about the impact
> it has on the community, the American manufacturing climate and I dislike
> some of what I hear about how they decide which products to stock and how
> it happens.


I blame the manufacturers for giving in to Wal-Mart and the big chains. They
don't have the balls to just say NO to them.

> It also is usually a pretty crowded, difficult to traverse around and
> trashy place, IMO. BUT.. it does seem as if people hold Walmart to some
> double standard that makes no sense to me.


Low price trumps ethic every time. That crowded store is democracy in
action. People voting with their dollars.


> Why should they be forced to pay more than the mom & pop store down the
> road pays their unskilled labor? These aren't high paying jobs no matter
> where they are.... why do we blame Wallyworld for that?


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"Stu" > wrote
> Kodak has done well going digital, I've owned three of their cameras.
>


I bet the Kodak stock holders and the laid off employees in the film
division would not agree with you.



>
> I've driven Pontiac all my life, and when they did away with the
> Pontiac line, like the Chev. truck and Oldsmobile I stopped buying GM.


I've owned three Pontiacs a few each of Olds, Buick even like my Corvair.
My last Buick is a money pit and when it started to go to crap, GM was of
no help. They hot me looking at other brands. I bought a 2007 Sonata
Limited and it has every option and features as the Buick that costs $10,000
more. I used to snicker that Hyundai, but they started making great cars
with good value in the price. After 67,000 miles I had $0 in repairs.
Traded it for a 2010 because they offered great deals in December.


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The Other Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:37:05 -0700, "gloria.p" >
> wrote:
>
>> Terrible employee treatment/relations is my biggest complaint,
>> followed by poor quality merchandise mostly made in China.

>
> WHY are you not talking about WalMart
> when you WERE complaining about Sam's Club??
>
>
>



I listed my complaints against the Walton family of stores
because someone (one of the Peters) asked my opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, SAM'S and Walmart are conjoined twins.

gloria p


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George wrote:

>
> I would say on a scale of 1-10 walmart is an 11 when it comes to
> lowering the standard of living in the US. One of the reasons we are in
> such trouble now is there is no substantial manufacturing base in the
> US. In all prior downturns it was manufacturing that brough the economy
> back. walmart was the main driver in the fad to continually beat up
> manufacturers for lower cost no matter how it had to be done.



Yes, you said it much better than I did.

gloria p
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"George" > wrote in message
> Sure, but walmart was the one that popularized the idea that it was OK to
> do it because of the profits it would generate. I always remember the
> first responsible job I had. The owner of the business was a smart and
> successful guy. His guideline was "the other guy has to eat". Simply
> meaning it was OK to bargain but don't kill your supplier. walmart was the
> one that really advanced the idea that it was OK to kill your supplier if
> required to insure your own success.


Wal-Mart may be best at it, but I've seen it as long as I've been working in
the 1960's. Don't blame them without the others. I know someone that went
out of business from Sears some years ago.


> It was a fabulous strategy. walmart told "Joe Lunchbox" that they were his
> friend and he believed them. Then "Joe Lunchboxe's" job disappeared and he
> couldn't understand why.


If Joe believed them, maybe he is not cut out to be in business.
>


>
> I think that is way too much oversimplification. You might be able to say
> no but if say you had large facilities that depend on economy of scale and
> a customer represented say 30% of your possible sales it might not be so
> easy.


We said no and it was 30% of our business. Took a while to replace it. The
customer was a large appliance manufacturer (that did not sell to Wal-Mart).
They demanded more and more price reductions, longer terms, and so forth.
When they sent a letter asking for a rebate on the previous years business
before starting the next season at a lower price, we said goodbye. We
shipped the tooling to one of our competitors that accepted the pricing. A
year later, the customer moved to Mexico and our competitor filed Chapter
11.



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"George" > wrote
> Walmart pays significantly less than what mom & pop payed. walmart
> actually hands out instructions about how to get "free" medical care and
> other services because most of their employees are in the official poverty
> class.


Here they pay minimum wage. When I worked in stores I was paid minimum wage
and no benefits by mom & pop. They did not tell me where to get "free"
medical care either. I guess they did not care about me as much as Wal-Mart
does. Was it different where you are?

I do frequent a couple of stores that have had the same employees for many
years. They may pay more, but they also charge more and sell products I'm
willing to pay more for. Some people think I'm nuts for spending extra
money for a premium product and continue to buy at the big stores for
cheaper mediocre stuff. Lots of people do that, however the quality
merchants with quality products still exist.

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In article >,
"Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:

>
> Your best bet is to get a list together of items you 'normally' buy and the
> prices you pay for them. Get a guest card (usually good for one day) and
> just browse. Some prices are good, some are equal in value, and some are
> much higher. You can do 'okay' in a bulk store if you know your prices.
> We have a card at BJ's (Costco is too far away for us) and I refuse to use
> Sam's (I hate Wally World and all that goes with it). They have great
> prices on rotisserie chickens and some of their meats are priced much less
> than the grocers, but toilet paper and other things I can get cheaper in the
> regular store. So it's up to you, is it worth the difference?
> -ginny


We opted to drink the koolaid and join Costco yesterday. We did exactly
what Ginny suggested--roam around and compare prices. Cat food and
kitty litter were comparable to Petsmart; OTC drugs, dietary
supplements, shampoos, dishwasher and laundry detergents were much
better than retail. We probably won't be going there for routine
groceries because of our lack of storage, but a monthly visit for
cleaning supplies and dry goods will save us money in the long run.

Cindy

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On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:24:02 -0500, brooklyn1 wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>> Andy wrote:
>>> Old Harley Rider wrote:
>>>
>>>> The wife and I have a Sam's membership. We use it strictly for gasoline.
>>>> We very seldom go in to the Sam's store. Sam's is only about a mile
>>>> away. You have to buy large portions of groceries at Sam's. We just use
>>>> Walmart for 90% of our groceries.
>>>
>>> I belong to BJ's Wholesale club. They don't sell gas. First I've heard of
>>> that! My club is pretty small compared to CostCo, Sam's, etc. Membership is
>>> $40/annual.
>>>
>>> I usually visit once annually mostly for paper, plastic and cleaning
>>> supplies. I never bothered to figure out if the cost + $40 dues is a
>>> bargain, compared to what? No way to tell really.
>>>
>>> Andy

>>
>>yeah, jeez, that would call for math and thinking and stuff.

>
> You must really love those No-Legs mick threads. lol


since most all of them (posts, not threads) are written by you and your
idiot partner andy, i'm more amused than insulted. but do rave on.

blake


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gloria.p wrote:
> PLucas1 wrote:
>> "gloria.p" > wrote in
>> -
>> september.org:
>>
>>> sf wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>>>> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
>>>> Walmart fame.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter to a lot of people. It does to me.
>>>
>>>
>>> gloria p
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>> What's the beef with them Mrs P ??
>>
>>
>>

>
> Terrible employee treatment/relations is my biggest complaint,
> followed by poor quality merchandise mostly made in China.
>
> Their business model frequently forces their suppliers to
> bid cheaper prices every year with enough volume so they
> become the only customer. When the supplier can no longer
> cut further and make a profit, WM dumps them and they go out
> of business.
>
> They demand large incentives to go into a community (utilities, roads,
> suspension of property taxes, zoning and environmental exceptions etc.)
> in exchange for promise of huge volume and accompanying sales taxes.
> Once the incentives run out, they leave the big, ugly box empty and move
> to another neighborhood.
>
> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>
> Enough?


May I add something?

You might see familiar labels on WalMart clothing. Just know that the
manufacturer's deal to supply a line to WalMart must include using their
brand name. What shoppers don't usually know is that the line in WM is
specifically made for them and does not reflect the quality the brand
name normally comes with. WM uses brand name recognition to sell
inferior products.

As for bad treatment of employees, I don't think they are any worse than
other large retail corporations. Keeping the majority of personnel as
part-time is a pretty common practice. I have a friend who worked for WM
and she has a decent little pension to show for it. She says they were
good to her. If they were such a sweat shop, how would they get any workers?

I do agree with you about the quality of their merchandise and, as I
stated earlier in the thread, I only buy toiletries and a few other
things there. Most of what I buy is made by American corporations who
most probably farm out their own manufacturing to China.


--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
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Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>
>> The wife (at that time) said "You're not going in there!! Only
>> Mexicans shop at KMart!!"

>
> The Martha Stewart products at Kmart are of decent quality, better than
> their lower-priced competition at other discount stores.
>


I agree. I think KMart has some really nice kitchen towels and bath mats
under Martha's name. I also think that some of their stock has improved
in quality since Sears bought them.

I'll shop anywhere for a bargain.


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On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:44:59 -0500, brooklyn1 wrote:

> Nonsense, one can always find space for non-perishables... no law says
> a 24 pack of TP can't be opened and spread about... I always keep a
> roll in my car, I 'rearly' use it but sure is handy when you gotta
> pull off at the side of the road and head into the woods... and I'd
> think females would keep like 2-3 rolls in their car, and a 24 pack in
> the trunk! LOL My mom never went anywhere without he rroll of TP in
> her handbag... in fact she'd remove the 3/4 used rolls from the
> bathroom because they more easily fit in her handbags.


so you and your mom are cheap-ass people who likely to shit just about
anywhere.

somehow this pretty much fits the mental picture i have of you.

blake
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>> their presence has forced many
>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>
>> Enough?

>
> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
> to go out of business.


San Benito, TX has a small HEB supermarket. No meat counter, no fish
counter but otherwise a decent store. A few years back they put a Super
WalMart across the street and everyone said it would be the death of HEB.

HEB just announced that they will be building a brand new, larger store
to replace the one they have in San Benito.

Moral of the story is that people still value quality, especially in
their food.


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Bogbrush wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" > writes:
>
>> "Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > writes:
>>>
>>>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>>>>> their presence has forced many
>>>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough?
>>>> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
>>>> to
>>>> go out of business.
>>> That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever read on the 'net. I
>>> congratulate you!
>>>

>> Thank you. Now show me where the big box stores have FORCED anyone out of
>> business.
>>
>>>> Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when
>>>> people
>>>> decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
>>>> reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will
>>>> walk
>>>> three times the distance from the mall parking lot.
>>>>
>>>> Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
>>>> business.
>>> Are you really so retarded as to think that a big convenient "once stop
>>> for all" shopping mall does not in any ways affect the customers a small
>>> local shop gets? LOL. Stay off the stupid pills.

>> Reading comprehension problems? It is definitely the CUSTOMER'S choice
>> that is affects the small stores,. They make choices of their own free
>> will. They are the ones that decide to patronized the big bad stores and
>> leave the small stores alone. Sometimes for good reason, other times
>> because many consumers are like lemmings.
>>
>> The times and consumer preferences have changed and business has to change
>> with it or they DIE. Dry cleaners, shoe repair, barber shops are all fading
>> away. Newspapers and magazines are starving. Did Wal-Mart cause that too?
>> No, consumer preferences have.
>>
>> In any case, I'm not going to wait up tonight for your evidence of Wal-Mart
>> forcing small store out of business, but I'll check back later after you get
>> your head out of your ass.

>
> You can play all the semantic games you want. These stores cost cut,
> take all the customers and this directly forces the small shops out of
> business. If you doubt this then you're an idiot.
>
>


Small stores were going out of business long before WalMart was on the
scene. Even the big stores closed their city locations in favor of the
malls out on the highway where it was easier to park and easier to shop
with many stores in one location.

What killed the local mom and pop stores was everyone getting a car.

If you could break away from your obsession with WalMart, you night see
that many downtowns are going through a revitalization these days. There
is always a need for shops that carry unique items. We have a wonderful
Tru-value affiliated hardware (and lots of other stuff) store in
Harlingen. I can't tell you how many times I've looked for something in
Lowes or Home Depot and the floor person told me to go to Hohnny's hardware.

BTW, Johnny's hardware has the best kitchen stuff collection in any
store I have ever shopped. I go there just to wander the aisles :-)
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.


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In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Bogbrush" > wrote in message
> >
> > I think Ed might have been eating too much of wal mart "thicky beans" or
> > something. He doesn't seem too clued into reality. I honestly never read
> > anything quite as dumb arse on the net before as his claims. And he's up
> > against some pretty stiff opposition.

>
> I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have evidence of big box stores
> forcing customers to stay away from the local merchants. Perhaps you have
> news clippings of Wal Mart putting up a blockade, or Home Depot blocking the
> downtown streets. I've met a few people like you, too dumb to know who the
> real culprit is.


Thanks for arguing with Boggy. Saves me the trouble. I read a few of
his posts, and once I figured out that he had nothing constructive to
say, and his arguments consisted of things like "dumb arse", into the KF
he went.

The town I live in has tried hard for decades to keep the big box stores
out. They are famous for being anti-growth, all the way to the supreme
court of the US. We have no big box stores in town. People shopping in
the malls (we have several) because they get free parking? We made all
parking downtown *free*. Street parking is limited to two hours, but
that's long enough to shop. Need to shop more than two hours? That's
probably more than one store, so just move your car to another block.
Need longer parking? There's a *free* multistory parking garage right
downtown. Bottom story is two hours, but top is eight, and the middle
is in between.

What more could the town do? Nothing that I can think of. But people
want to shop in the big box stores, so they drive on the freeway north
or south to get to them. So, new city council, new strategy. We've got
two big box stores scheduled to move in, both about a mile from me, in
two new shopping centers.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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The Cook wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:25:34 -0600, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>>> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
>>> Walmart fame.
>>>

>> I knew that. I have been to the corporate headquarters in Arkansas and
>> went to the visitors center which is in the old 5 and 10 that was Sam's
>> first store. Very interesting place.
>>
>> They have a special building on the corporate campus where merchants
>> bring their samples to negotiate deals. I didn't get to go in, but I did
>> see many harried people toting huge, wheeled cases up and down the steps
>> to that building.

>
> Gives you a good idea of how they feel about their prospective
> suppliers.


They are Capitalists. That's what Capitalists do. I, for one, am not up
to another round of interfering government regulations and pushy,
self-serving unions. Whatever the retail situation is, the consumer,
through buying habits, made it.


--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
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George wrote:
> On 2/20/2010 9:16 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
>> "gloria.p" wrote:
>>>
>>> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
>>> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.

>>
>> What about chain stores like Safeway and Piggly-Wiggly?
>> They put a much larger number of small local grocery
>> stores and butcher shops out of business. Are you
>> against them?
>>
>> What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
>> put lots of small local bookstores out of business?
>> Or Amazon, which will put big bookstore chains out of
>> business?
>>
>> Or fast food francises, whose clean facilities and
>> consistent products put lots of greasy spoon diners
>> out of business? Or shoe stores that put local
>> craftsman shoemakers out of business?
>>
>> There isn't any difference between any of these
>> examples and Wa-Mart. Surely, you are not the sort
>> of hypocrite that would ever buy food at a supermarket,
>> books from Amazon, or shoes from a shoe store, are you?

>
> I would say on a scale of 1-10 walmart is an 11 when it comes to
> lowering the standard of living in the US. One of the reasons we are in
> such trouble now is there is no substantial manufacturing base in the
> US. In all prior downturns it was manufacturing that brough the economy
> back. walmart was the main driver in the fad to continually beat up
> manufacturers for lower cost no matter how it had to be done.


.....but we, the consumer, bought it. Really, George, can you think of
any product made now that has the quality of the same item made 10 years
ago? Nothing is fixable. Everything is disposable.

--
Janet Wilder
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Janet Wilder > writes:

> May I add something?
>
> You might see familiar labels on WalMart clothing. Just know that the
> manufacturer's deal to supply a line to WalMart must include using their
> brand name. What shoppers don't usually know is that the line in WM is
> specifically made for them and does not reflect the quality the brand
> name normally comes with. WM uses brand name recognition to sell
> inferior products.
>
> As for bad treatment of employees, I don't think they are any worse than
> other large retail corporations. Keeping the majority of personnel as
> part-time is a pretty common practice. I have a friend who worked for WM
> and she has a decent little pension to show for it. She says they were
> good to her. If they were such a sweat shop, how would they get any
> workers?


Wow. This thread is really pulling out the stops with regards to lame
apologists. The same way as all sweat shops work : people are desperate.

>
> I do agree with you about the quality of their merchandise and, as I
> stated earlier in the thread, I only buy toiletries and a few other
> things there. Most of what I buy is made by American corporations who
> most probably farm out their own manufacturing to China.


I buy my food in one. Because they forced the closure of all the local
small shops and I dont drive.

The staff are virtually all simple.

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Janet Wilder > writes:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>
>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>>> their presence has forced many
>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>
>>> Enough?

>>
>> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
>> to go out of business.

>
> San Benito, TX has a small HEB supermarket. No meat counter, no fish
> counter but otherwise a decent store. A few years back they put a Super
> WalMart across the street and everyone said it would be the death of HEB.
>
> HEB just announced that they will be building a brand new, larger store
> to replace the one they have in San Benito.
>
> Moral of the story is that people still value quality, especially in
> their food.


Yeah and that one example proves diddly squat. What is it with you
people. Lets try some BASIC math for dumbarses:

Number of people near by == near enough constant.
People use small shops.
Big Walmart opens.
Huge amount of people go their for convenience.
Small shops sell LESS.
Good chance they close.

Difficult I know.....



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Janet Wilder > writes:

>
> Small stores were going out of business long before WalMart was on the
> scene. Even the big stores closed their city locations in favor of the
> malls out on the highway where it was easier to park and easier to shop
> with many stores in one location.


Bollox. Some might have been. Not all or even the majority.

>
> What killed the local mom and pop stores was everyone getting a car.


What killed the mom and pop stores was the car and corrupt politicians
allowing the opening of these monstrosities every 50km or so.

>
> If you could break away from your obsession with WalMart, you night see
> that many downtowns are going through a revitalization these
> days. There


What obsession? It is an example. No more. No less.

> is always a need for shops that carry unique items. We have a wonderful
> Tru-value affiliated hardware (and lots of other stuff) store in
> Harlingen. I can't tell you how many times I've looked for something in
> Lowes or Home Depot and the floor person told me to go to Hohnny's hardware.
>
> BTW, Johnny's hardware has the best kitchen stuff collection in any
> store I have ever shopped. I go there just to wander the aisles :-)


Sure you do "Janet".

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On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:25:34 -0600, Janet Wilder wrote:

> sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.

>>
>> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
>> Walmart fame.
>>

>
> I knew that. I have been to the corporate headquarters in Arkansas and
> went to the visitors center which is in the old 5 and 10 that was Sam's
> first store. Very interesting place.
>
> They have a special building on the corporate campus where merchants
> bring their samples to negotiate deals. I didn't get to go in, but I did
> see many harried people toting huge, wheeled cases up and down the steps
> to that building.


my impression (and i'm too lazy now to look up the cites for it) is that
sam walton wasn't quite the shark that wal-mart corporation has turned
into. his heirs, some more involved than others, have pretty much turned
the business over to managers seeking the absolute lowest price for the
goods (which means imported from china) and the absolute lowest costs for
labor (which means no unions, no benefits, and if your employees need
medicaid and food stamps, so be it).

henry ford (rat though he may have been in many ways) realized it would
probably be a good thing all around if he paid his assembly line workers
enough so that they could afford to buy one of his cars. in contrast, the
current business models focus solely on profit and not how that will affect
the larger and smaller communities that they sell to.

a better model might more evenly distribute the profits amongst the people
actually doing the work and the people owning the means of production.
that's my commie take on it anyway.

your pal,
blake
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Janet Wilder > writes:

> George wrote:
>> On 2/20/2010 9:16 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
>>> "gloria.p" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
>>>> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
>>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>
>>> What about chain stores like Safeway and Piggly-Wiggly?
>>> They put a much larger number of small local grocery
>>> stores and butcher shops out of business. Are you
>>> against them?
>>>
>>> What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
>>> put lots of small local bookstores out of business?
>>> Or Amazon, which will put big bookstore chains out of
>>> business?
>>>
>>> Or fast food francises, whose clean facilities and
>>> consistent products put lots of greasy spoon diners
>>> out of business? Or shoe stores that put local
>>> craftsman shoemakers out of business?
>>>
>>> There isn't any difference between any of these
>>> examples and Wa-Mart. Surely, you are not the sort
>>> of hypocrite that would ever buy food at a supermarket,
>>> books from Amazon, or shoes from a shoe store, are you?

>>
>> I would say on a scale of 1-10 walmart is an 11 when it comes to
>> lowering the standard of living in the US. One of the reasons we are in
>> such trouble now is there is no substantial manufacturing base in the
>> US. In all prior downturns it was manufacturing that brough the economy
>> back. walmart was the main driver in the fad to continually beat up
>> manufacturers for lower cost no matter how it had to be done.

>
> ....but we, the consumer, bought it. Really, George, can you think of
> any product made now that has the quality of the same item made 10 years
> ago? Nothing is fixable. Everything is disposable.


Total and utter nonsense of course.

There are oodles of quality products. The main issue are shit holes like
these big warehouse outlets basically forcing junk on the unsuspecting
customer with little if any guidance or after sales support.

You know, the shit holes you seem to so openly support because you are
aware of ONE shop that magically did better when one opened near by.

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Bogbrush wrote:
> Janet Wilder > writes:
>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>>>> their presence has forced many
>>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>>
>>>> Enough?
>>> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
>>> to go out of business.

>> San Benito, TX has a small HEB supermarket. No meat counter, no fish
>> counter but otherwise a decent store. A few years back they put a Super
>> WalMart across the street and everyone said it would be the death of HEB.
>>
>> HEB just announced that they will be building a brand new, larger store
>> to replace the one they have in San Benito.
>>
>> Moral of the story is that people still value quality, especially in
>> their food.

>
> Yeah and that one example proves diddly squat. What is it with you
> people. Lets try some BASIC math for dumbarses:
>
> Number of people near by == near enough constant.
> People use small shops.
> Big Walmart opens.
> Huge amount of people go their for convenience.
> Small shops sell LESS.
> Good chance they close.
>
> Difficult I know.....
>


It's not at all difficult to see that you have an opinion founded on a
myth.

--
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Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
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"Cindy Fuller" > wrote
> We opted to drink the koolaid and join Costco yesterday. We did exactly
> what Ginny suggested--roam around and compare prices. Cat food and
> kitty litter were comparable to Petsmart; OTC drugs, dietary
> supplements, shampoos, dishwasher and laundry detergents were much
> better than retail. We probably won't be going there for routine
> groceries because of our lack of storage, but a monthly visit for
> cleaning supplies and dry goods will save us money in the long run.
>
> Cindy


Good for you. Do check out some of the groceries though, especially the
higher priced items. If you find something like Ford Farms cheeses, the
Coastal cheddars is fantastic. Some items are well worth finding the space
for.



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On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:35:25 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

> Try a peroxide based bleach. It's easier on clothing.


Are you saying that peroxide, the stuff you buy in the brown bottle at
the drugstore, works on mold?

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Goomba wrote:
>George wrote:
>
>> They are certainly a major employer but at least in my state their
>> employees represent a major percentage of the population that require
>> "free" services from the government because the pay is so low. A
>> relative works at one of the gov't offices responsible for "free stuff"
>> and she said folks will often show up holding the guide that walamrt
>> gives them on where to sign up for their "benefit package".

>
>I don't shop at Walmart, but admittedly do shop at SamsClub.
>I refuse to set foot in a Walmart as not only do I worry about the
>impact it has on the community, the American manufacturing climate and I
>dislike some of what I hear about how they decide which products to
>stock and how it happens. It also is usually a pretty crowded, difficult
>to traverse around and trashy place, IMO.


Walmart and Sam's Club are essentially the same store.

I've found that when stores are trashy and frequented
by trashy people it's because the store is located in a trashy
neighborhood with a large population of trashy people. The Walmart I
shop (Glenmont) is actually one of the more pleasant stores I shop,
very helpful staff, it's scrupulously clean (their terlit is cleaner
than at the Waldorf), and never so crowded I notice. I've also
shopped the Walmart a good distance south of where I live, towards NYC
(Kingston), no comparison, it's a trashy neighborhood with trashy
people, the store was very crowded (entering the terlit was deje vous
of NYC subway terlits, the stink - the filth), but the thing I most
remember is how noisy it was and the smell that permeated the entire
store... trashy people are definitely boisterous and it's obvious they
don't bathe... they wear a lot of cheap perfume but that only
amplifies their body odor. Physically it was the same Walmart store
as others but I didn't feel safe in that store, they even had a very
conspicuous security presence all over the store... I only stopped
because it was on my way home and I needed cat food but I would never
return. It's not fair to paint all Walmarts with the same brush... I
found that holds true with all stores... a store, its staff, and its
clientelle accurately reflects the atmosphere of its location...
that's what realtors mean by "location location location", if you live
in a shitty location your Walmart will be shitty too. I shop the
Sam's Club north of me, also near Glenmont, a very nice store, just as
nice as the nearby Walmart. But I've also shopped the Sam's Club a
good ways south of me, past Hudson, very trashy, I won't be returning
there either.

I find nothing wrong with Walmart products, with their products you
get what you pay for, a $5 tee shirt is not the same as a $20 tee
shirt, I'm not a $5 tee shirt kind of guy so I don't buy my tee shirts
at Walmart, I order $20 Carhartt tee shirts on line... but Gilette
razor blades are the same quality everywhere and I like paying less
for them at Walmart than Rite Aid charges. I like paying like 30%
less for the same name brand cat food too. I have no
emotional/political feelings about Walmart one way or the other, for
me it's all about saving money. If your Walmart is trashy maybe you
should consider moving to a higher class neighborhood, just saying.

The one thing I really appreciate about this very rural area where I
chose for retirement is that the mix of folk's level of refinement is
extremely wide, but we all live so great a distance apart and most
mind their own business that it's very easy to pick, choose, and
refuse who to associate with, or to just keep to oneself. Sometimes I
feel hoity toity so I visit with my lady friend up on the hill who
raises throughbred race horses on a few hundred acres and lives in a
multi million dollar abode, there we sip brandy and
discuss real estate and national politics. And sometimes when I'm
feeling trashy I visit my neighbor down the road who lives hidden from
view by brush in his ancient converted travel trailer (where he's been
hiding from his ex for some 40 years) where we toss down a bunch of
brewskies and talk local shit and living with bitches. I always liked
living in a very homogenous/ethnic neighborhood, this part of the
Catskills is sorta like how Brooklyn usta be... kinda like rfc! LOL



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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "George" > wrote
>> Walmart pays significantly less than what mom & pop payed. walmart
>> actually hands out instructions about how to get "free" medical care and
>> other services because most of their employees are in the official
>> poverty class.

>
> Here they pay minimum wage. When I worked in stores I was paid minimum
> wage and no benefits by mom & pop. They did not tell me where to get
> "free" medical care either. I guess they did not care about me as much as
> Wal-Mart does. Was it different where you are?
>
> I do frequent a couple of stores that have had the same employees for many
> years. They may pay more, but they also charge more and sell products I'm
> willing to pay more for. Some people think I'm nuts for spending extra
> money for a premium product and continue to buy at the big stores for
> cheaper mediocre stuff. Lots of people do that, however the quality
> merchants with quality products still exist.


An interesting parallel is that many people will pay more for organic
products, too. Sometimes, if you want the best in product and service, you
will have to pay more.

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On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:36:13 -0500, Goomba >
wrote:

> Why should they be forced to pay more than the mom & pop store down the
> road pays their unskilled labor? These aren't high paying jobs no matter
> where they are.... why do we blame Wallyworld for that?


What I don't understand is how a supposed health care professional
fails to grasp the importance of health insurance.

http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/


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Andy > wrote:

>I hardly ever buy "organic" food unless it comes recommended.


>I'm more interested in minimally and unprocessed foods. That
>mostly means Trader Joe's products. For a few cents more it's
>worth it to not embalm yourself while you eat.


One thing to note is that in the U.S., food labeled as "organic"
cannot be produced from genetically modified ingredients.

Steve


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Andy > wrote:

>A couple years ago, someone linked me to a video exposé of Monsanto's
>genetically engineered soybeans to ward off some pest. The problem grew
>as their soybeans were used so far and wide that even the organic soy
>fields across country borders were being contaminated by Monsanto's
>genetically engineered soybean pollen "fallout" blowing in the wind.


It's worse than that; Monsanto sued the organic farmers for
infringement, on the basis they were growing the GM product without
paying royalties.

Steve
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On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:20:28 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

>
>
>"gloria.p" > wrote in message
>> their presence has forced many
>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>
>> Enough?

>
>Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store to
>go out of business.
>
>Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when people
>decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
>reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will walk
>three times the distance from the mall parking lot.
>
>Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
>business.


Also the vast majority of little stores were mom-pops... their kids
didn't want to work in the store nor did the mom-pops want their kids
to work hard and struggle when they could become MDs, Lawyers, and
CPAs. Most small stores ceased to be because of attrition... agreed,
Walmart and its ilk had not a whit to do with it. When folks are
themselves struggling and filled with bitterness they strike out at
anything to blame (except themselves), Walmart makes a grand whipping
post for the losers... however the very same losers who rail against
Walmart the loudest shop Walmart the most.

One day *soon* the Walmart big box ilk will become as obsolete as TSS,
Grants, Fortunoffs, and the like... a brand new shopping concept will
evolve... then who will Walmart blame.

Nothing remains static, sometimes life improves, sometimes it
deteriorates, but change is certain.

I still remember going into a Chevy dealer with $2,500 cash and
driving out in what was then a "full size - don't need to weigh under
150 pounds to fit comfortably" 409, four on the floor, no AC, no
Stereo, no CD, no GPS, no donuts in the trunk, a trunk big enough to
get laid in, a vehicle spacious enough for six people to *comfortably*
get laid in all at once at the drive in or watching submarine races
while listening to actual real music (LOL-LOL), nothing but pure bliss
and unleashed/unlimited power... no day was long enough, no road was
long enough. None of today's kids will ever know that experience of
*freedom*, none of today's kid's kids will ever drive an automoble,
maybe shove a couple rechargable D cells up their ass and sit on a
skate board... no one born in the USA today will ever know the America
I know, too bad. Ya know how ya usta say "Eat Shit... and did you hug
your child today"... under the Obamination plan it's gonna be "Eat
Sand... and did you **** your camel today" And yoose all are gonna be
the camels!






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On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:31:39 -0600, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

> That said, unions did their job when it was needed. What happened is
> that they became so powerful that they screwed their own members. They
> protected bad workers, they raised the cost of manufacturing so high
> that companies, who were responsible to their shareholders, were forced
> to go overseas where they could find cheap labor.


Greed on the part of the industry is a contributing factor too, but
certain industries did it to themselves when they didn't keep up with
the times. Steel comes to mind as does the American auto industry.

> Yes quality did
> suffer, but we Americans did not complain. We bought cheap crap and we
> learned to live with it.


Americans certainly did complain, but it's easy to be complacent when
it happens to somebody else. We have been trained to be a throw away
society. Even large appliances are throw away now as evidenced by the
cost of a repair/replacement part that can equal half the cost of a
brand new unit.

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On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:13:36 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

> Most small retail stores started to die in the 1960's. They were done in by
> the combination of the Interstate Highway system and the shopping mall.
> Every year, more people decided to not go downtown, but to go to the mall
> instead. Where I live, the stores were pretty much gone long before Wal
> Mart and cheap goods existed.


Downtowns are still shooting themselves in the foot, at least here.
They want shoppers but they don't want cars. They don't have enough
public parking lots; street parking almost non existent; traffic in
city center is restricted and parking meters only are not only
expensive - the hours are being pushed past 6PM to 10 or midnight in
some areas; public transportation is a nightmare for anyone off a main
line and taxis are not in abundance anywhere other than hotels and the
airport. It's no surprise shoppers prefer going to malls.

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On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:48:28 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

> I used to snicker that Hyundai, but they started making great cars
> with good value in the price.


My SIL had one of the first. She called it her "Korean Mercedes", so
I looked at it closer and yes... it did look like a mini-mercedes.

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>"WTF" > wrote:
>>
>> You got stock in Walmart ED?
>>
>> When walmart has a lawnmower for $99.00 made in China, and the local
>> hardware store has an American made lawmower for $122.00 his lowest
>> price, because he can't sell for less and stay in business, who do you
>> think the consumer will buy from? So your Walmart didn't do it is
>> completly wrong, and this wrong is happening all over the USA. They
>> sell chinese products to Joe Lunchbox, and main street USA is dieing
>> because of it. Go to Walmart and see how many USA products they
>> actually sell, I bet 10% max., where 20 years ago it was 10% imports.
>> One other thing, try to get a union into a Walmart, they'd rather
>> close a store than allow it. Why you ask, it's simple ED they don't
>> want to pay a wage people can live on.


Huh? Yo, shit for brains, get an education, learn a trade... then ya
can get paid a living wage. Yer not supposed get paid a living wage
when all ya are is a 40 year old stock BOY pothead living home in
mommy n' daddy's basement. The vast majority of Walmart type jobs
are supposed to be part time, seasonal, and minimum wage... ya think a
guy who just retrieves shopping carts from the parking lot should be
paid enough to own a big house in the good part of town, support 3.5
kids, have two Irish setters (with no legs), and attract a stay at
home wife with big tits... yer mentally ill. LOL-LOL



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Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> "Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> I think Ed might have been eating too much of wal mart "thicky
>>> beans" or something. He doesn't seem too clued into reality. I
>>> honestly never read anything quite as dumb arse on the net before
>>> as his claims. And he's up against some pretty stiff opposition.

>>
>> I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have evidence of big box
>> stores forcing customers to stay away from the local merchants.
>> Perhaps you have news clippings of Wal Mart putting up a blockade,
>> or Home Depot blocking the downtown streets. I've met a few people
>> like you, too dumb to know who the real culprit is.

>
> Thanks for arguing with Boggy. Saves me the trouble. I read a few of
> his posts, and once I figured out that he had nothing constructive to
> say, and his arguments consisted of things like "dumb arse", into the
> KF he went.


Amen to that. Boggy hasn't yet figured out that *facts* are a quite
different animal from that of one's *opinion*. Reading his spoutings of
school-yard name calling .... name-calling which isn't clever, to boot ....
makes him KF fodder.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:06:04 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
> The town I live in has tried hard for decades to keep the big box stores
> out. They are famous for being anti-growth, all the way to the supreme
> court of the US. We have no big box stores in town. People shopping in
> the malls (we have several) because they get free parking? We made all
> parking downtown *free*. Street parking is limited to two hours, but
> that's long enough to shop. Need to shop more than two hours? That's
> probably more than one store, so just move your car to another block.
> Need longer parking? There's a *free* multistory parking garage right
> downtown. Bottom story is two hours, but top is eight, and the middle
> is in between.


I *love* downtown Petaluma!

>
> What more could the town do? Nothing that I can think of. But people
> want to shop in the big box stores, so they drive on the freeway north
> or south to get to them. So, new city council, new strategy. We've got
> two big box stores scheduled to move in, both about a mile from me, in
> two new shopping centers.


<sigh> Well, the shopping centers are closer to the housing
developments - maybe that's why.

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In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:35:25 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> > Try a peroxide based bleach. It's easier on clothing.

>
> Are you saying that peroxide, the stuff you buy in the brown bottle at
> the drugstore, works on mold?


Well, it will certainly turn it white. Look what it does to hair!
However, I would think that it would bleach clothing also, but don't
really know.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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In article >,
Janet Wilder > wrote:


> ....but we, the consumer, bought it. Really, George, can you think of
> any product made now that has the quality of the same item made 10 years
> ago? Nothing is fixable. Everything is disposable.


I have to wonder, though. After WWII, the Japanese were desperate to
sell stuff. Anything. They had no time for development or quality
control. "Made in Japan" was synonymous with "crap". Things are
different now. My son bought a kitchen knife recently. US$200. Made
in Japan.

The Chinese have come a *long* way in a *short* time. What will Chinese
products be like in ten years? Fifty?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

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