sf wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>
> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
> Walmart fame.
>


It doesn't matter to a lot of people. It does to me.


gloria p

"gloria.p" > wrote in -
september.org:

> sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>>
>> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
>> Walmart fame.
>>
>
>
> It doesn't matter to a lot of people. It does to me.
>
>
> gloria p
>



What's the beef with them Mrs P ??



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

Killfile all Google Groups posters.........

http://improve-usenet.org/

http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html

On Feb 19, 4:11*pm, Cindy Fuller >
wrote:
> Ranee's post about the non-availability of good kosher hot dogs at
> Costco brought up an interesting sidebar. *She said that she and Rich
> had let their Costco membership lapse. *The SO and I have debated for
> years about the value of getting a Costco membership. *I briefly had a
> Sam's Club membership many years ago, but I let it lapse because there
> wasn't one nearby when I moved from Dallas to Ithaca in 1986. *Our
> neighbors are big Costco aficionados, and my relatives back east are
> devotees of BJ's and Sam's. *To my thinking, a membership doesn't make
> much sense for the two of us. *We don't have oodles of space to store
> large quantities of stuff. *Anyone in a small household want to chime in
> one way or another?
>
> Cindy
>
> --
> C.J. Fuller
>
> Delete the obvious to email me

I live alone with little storage space, so I don't buy huge packages
of anything. I do buy most meat I eat at Costco though, and then
repackage what I buy into convenient serving sizes in ziplock freezer
bags for ease of storage and defrost them as I need them. I save BIG
over regular grocery store prices and definitely save more than going
to restaurants. Entree prices for dinner at a not very fancy
restaurant could easily cost what I pay for a package of pork chops at
Costco. I also buy some vitamin pills there, and bought my new TV
last year and my original desktop computer at Costco. So I feel the
membership is easily worth $50.00 per year, for me. (And I hate
Walmart, and many of their business practices.)

Melissa

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>
> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
> Walmart fame.
>

I knew that. I have been to the corporate headquarters in Arkansas and
went to the visitors center which is in the old 5 and 10 that was Sam's
first store. Very interesting place.

They have a special building on the corporate campus where merchants
bring their samples to negotiate deals. I didn't get to go in, but I did
see many harried people toting huge, wheeled cases up and down the steps
to that building.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

PLucas1 wrote:
> "gloria.p" > wrote in -
> september.org:
>
>> Chemo the Clown wrote:
>>
>>> I wouldn't shop at Walmart no matter how cheap they are.
>> My sentiments exactly.
>>
>
>
> I actually picked up a couple of belt buckles from a Walmart (somewhere in
> California.... around Venice Beach-Marina Del Ray area IIRC). Great
> buckles, heavy pewter type, with an Indian on it.
>
> Gave one to a mate who was returning to Italy, and kept one for myself.
> Good bargain too.
>
> The place seemed pretty good.
>
> But that was in 91-92.
>
> Things have changed, I take it?
>
>
> Funny thing was...... (same period, early 90's) we were riding around on
> our motorbike, and I spotted a KMart and stopped to get some stuff from
> there, as I sometimes do here in Australia.
>
> The wife (at that time) said "You're not going in there!! Only Mexicans
> shop at KMart!!"
>
>
Years ago, WalMart used to advertise that everything they sold in their
stores was made in the USA. Boy have things changed!

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Janet Wilder > wrote in
:

> PLucas1 wrote:
>> "gloria.p" > wrote in
>> - september.org:
>>
>>> Chemo the Clown wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wouldn't shop at Walmart no matter how cheap they are.
>>> My sentiments exactly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I actually picked up a couple of belt buckles from a Walmart (somewhere
>> in California.... around Venice Beach-Marina Del Ray area IIRC). Great
>> buckles, heavy pewter type, with an Indian on it.
>>
>> Gave one to a mate who was returning to Italy, and kept one for myself.
>> Good bargain too.
>>
>> The place seemed pretty good.
>>
>> But that was in 91-92.
>>
>> Things have changed, I take it?
>>
>>
>> Funny thing was...... (same period, early 90's) we were riding around
>> on our motorbike, and I spotted a KMart and stopped to get some stuff
>> from there, as I sometimes do here in Australia.
>>
>> The wife (at that time) said "You're not going in there!! Only Mexicans
>> shop at KMart!!"
>>
>>
> Years ago, WalMart used to advertise that everything they sold in their
> stores was made in the USA. Boy have things changed!
>



It's the way of the world.

There's a big hue and cry over here for everyone to "Buy Australian".....
but unfortunately, it's damn hard to find anything on the shelf that is
100% Aussie, and when you do, it's normally twice the price of like items.
A *lot* of people just can't afford to buy Aussie.

I try to stay away from product from foreign owned companies, but
sometimes, you don't have any choice but to buy them.

There's always some country out there that produce very similar items to
those that are 100% Aussie, but they can do it for a fraction of the
price.




--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

Killfile all Google Groups posters.........

http://improve-usenet.org/

http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:31:58 GMT, PLucas1
> wrote:

> The wife (at that time) said "You're not going in there!! Only Mexicans
> shop at KMart!!"

That's not a good reason why you shouldn't shop there. The people who
mourn for Main Street USA and mom & pop shops need to remember that
Walmart was a major reason they disappeared.

Walmart didn't affect me or my job, but I see what it has done to
others and I refuse to give it my business. You should watch -
Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price http://www.walmartmovie.com/

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

PLucas1 wrote:
> "gloria.p" > wrote in -
> september.org:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>>> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
>>> Walmart fame.
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter to a lot of people. It does to me.
>>
>>
>> gloria p
>>
>
>
>
> What's the beef with them Mrs P ??
>
>
>

Terrible employee treatment/relations is my biggest complaint,
followed by poor quality merchandise mostly made in China.

Their business model frequently forces their suppliers to
bid cheaper prices every year with enough volume so they
become the only customer. When the supplier can no longer
cut further and make a profit, WM dumps them and they go out
of business.

They demand large incentives to go into a community (utilities, roads,
suspension of property taxes, zoning and environmental exceptions etc.)
in exchange for promise of huge volume and accompanying sales taxes.
Once the incentives run out, they leave the big, ugly box empty and move
to another neighborhood.

Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.

Enough?

gloria p

"Cindy Fuller" > wrote in message
...
> Ranee's post about the non-availability of good kosher hot dogs at
> Costco brought up an interesting sidebar. She said that she and Rich
> had let their Costco membership lapse. The SO and I have debated for
> years about the value of getting a Costco membership. I briefly had a
> Sam's Club membership many years ago, but I let it lapse because there
> wasn't one nearby when I moved from Dallas to Ithaca in 1986. Our
> neighbors are big Costco aficionados, and my relatives back east are
> devotees of BJ's and Sam's. To my thinking, a membership doesn't make
> much sense for the two of us. We don't have oodles of space to store
> large quantities of stuff. Anyone in a small household want to chime in
> one way or another?
>
> Cindy
>
> --
> C.J. Fuller

Since moving to the boonies ( 35 mi to Costco) I find Costco a blessing.
Their Gas is priced right and there are many staples we use regularly. We do
keep a freezer. I do find the membership worth the money.


--
Dimitri

Searing

http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

"gloria.p" wrote:
>
> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.

What about chain stores like Safeway and Piggly-Wiggly?
They put a much larger number of small local grocery
stores and butcher shops out of business. Are you
against them?

What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
put lots of small local bookstores out of business?
Or Amazon, which will put big bookstore chains out of
business?

Or fast food francises, whose clean facilities and
consistent products put lots of greasy spoon diners
out of business? Or shoe stores that put local
craftsman shoemakers out of business?

There isn't any difference between any of these
examples and Wa-Mart. Surely, you are not the sort
of hypocrite that would ever buy food at a supermarket,
books from Amazon, or shoes from a shoe store, are you?

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:24:02 -0500, brooklyn1
> wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> Andy wrote:
>>> Old Harley Rider wrote:
>>>
>>>> The wife and I have a Sam's membership. We use it strictly for gasoline.
>>>> We very seldom go in to the Sam's store. Sam's is only about a mile
>>>> away. You have to buy large portions of groceries at Sam's. We just use
>>>> Walmart for 90% of our groceries.
>>>
>>> I belong to BJ's Wholesale club. They don't sell gas. First I've heard of
>>> that! My club is pretty small compared to CostCo, Sam's, etc. Membership is
>>> $40/annual.
>>>
>>> I usually visit once annually mostly for paper, plastic and cleaning
>>> supplies. I never bothered to figure out if the cost + $40 dues is a
>>> bargain, compared to what? No way to tell really.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>
>>yeah, jeez, that would call for math and thinking and stuff.
>
>You must really love those No-Legs mick threads. lol


The morons at foodbanter must love you Skippy, cause you'se so smurt

"gloria.p" > wrote in -
september.org:

> PLucas1 wrote:

>
> Enough?
>



Yep.



I promise never to shop at a Walmart for the rest of my life.


(And I will be back in the States sometime in the future.)


I remember the Walmart in the area I lived in used to be a 24hr place, and
I always wondered how they managed that when there wasn't that much
business between 2300hrs - 0500hrs.

Now I know.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

Killfile all Google Groups posters.........

http://improve-usenet.org/

http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html

Om wrote:

> Never heard of BJ's...

Really? It's what cyber**** does for a living!

Bob

Peter wrote:

> The wife (at that time) said "You're not going in there!! Only Mexicans
> shop at KMart!!"

The Martha Stewart products at Kmart are of decent quality, better than
their lower-priced competition at other discount stores.

Bob

"gloria.p" > wrote in message
> their presence has forced many
> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>
> Enough?

Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store to
go out of business.

Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when people
decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will walk
three times the distance from the mall parking lot.

Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
business.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
>
> What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
> put lots of small local bookstores out of business?

We have a small bookstore in town. I went in there once and it smelled like
cat ****. Never went back. Went to B & N and there was no odor so we
bought some books. Probably won't go there as much now since I bought my
wife a Nook.

On Feb 20, 7:22*pm, Shiral > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 4:11*pm, Cindy Fuller >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ranee's post about the non-availability of good kosher hot dogs at
> > Costco brought up an interesting sidebar. *She said that she and Rich
> > had let their Costco membership lapse. *The SO and I have debated for
> > years about the value of getting a Costco membership. *I briefly had a
> > Sam's Club membership many years ago, but I let it lapse because there
> > wasn't one nearby when I moved from Dallas to Ithaca in 1986. *Our
> > neighbors are big Costco aficionados, and my relatives back east are
> > devotees of BJ's and Sam's. *To my thinking, a membership doesn't make
> > much sense for the two of us. *We don't have oodles of space to store
> > large quantities of stuff. *Anyone in a small household want to chime in
> > one way or another?
>
> > Cindy
>
> > --
> > C.J. Fuller
>
> > Delete the obvious to email me
>
> I live alone with little storage space, so I don't buy huge packages
> of anything. *I do buy most meat I eat at Costco though, and then
> repackage what I buy into convenient serving sizes in ziplock freezer
> bags for ease of storage and defrost them as I need them. I save BIG
> over regular grocery store prices and definitely save more than going
> to restaurants. Entree prices for dinner at a not very fancy
> restaurant could easily cost what I pay for a package of pork chops at
> Costco. *I also buy some vitamin pills there, and bought my new TV
> last year and my original desktop computer at Costco. So I feel the
> membership is easily worth $50.00 per year, for me. (And I hate
> Walmart, and many of their business practices.)
>
> Melissa

How many miles is it to your Costco and is it on the way to anywhere
else you frequent? I think this must be a major factor in why ppl
join. So in your case?

"Ed Pawlowski" > writes:

> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>> their presence has forced many
>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>
>> Enough?
>
> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store to
> go out of business.

That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever read on the 'net. I
congratulate you!

>
> Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when people
> decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
> reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will walk
> three times the distance from the mall parking lot.
>
> Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
> business.

Are you really so retarded as to think that a big convenient "once stop
for all" shopping mall does not in any ways affect the customers a small
local shop gets? LOL. Stay off the stupid pills.

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:07:48 -0600, Stu > wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:39:11 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:57:24 -0600, Stu > wrote:
> >
> >> Javex diluted 50-50 with water in a spray bottle.
> >
> >As far as I can tell, that's straight bleach. Am I wrong?
> >
> >> We used this to kill mold in bathrooms before priming with zinsser.
> >
> >I want it for grout and was hoping to get away from straight bleach...
> >it beats up my clothing.
>
> 50-50 means three oz of bleach and three of water, it's the best but
> 30% bleach and 70% water will get the job done although you may have
> to go over it again. Wash it down with plenty of water after.
> Wear some old clothes.

Sorry, I mean Javex was straight bleach. Seems to be made by Clorox.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Bogbrush" > wrote in message
...
> "Ed Pawlowski" > writes:
>
>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>>> their presence has forced many
>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>
>>> Enough?
>>
>> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
>> to
>> go out of business.
>
> That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever read on the 'net. I
> congratulate you!
>

Thank you. Now show me where the big box stores have FORCED anyone out of
business.


>>
>> Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when
>> people
>> decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
>> reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will
>> walk
>> three times the distance from the mall parking lot.
>>
>> Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
>> business.
>
> Are you really so retarded as to think that a big convenient "once stop
> for all" shopping mall does not in any ways affect the customers a small
> local shop gets? LOL. Stay off the stupid pills.

Reading comprehension problems? It is definitely the CUSTOMER'S choice
that is affects the small stores,. They make choices of their own free
will. They are the ones that decide to patronized the big bad stores and
leave the small stores alone. Sometimes for good reason, other times
because many consumers are like lemmings.

The times and consumer preferences have changed and business has to change
with it or they DIE. Dry cleaners, shoe repair, barber shops are all fading
away. Newspapers and magazines are starving. Did Wal-Mart cause that too?
No, consumer preferences have.

In any case, I'm not going to wait up tonight for your evidence of Wal-Mart
forcing small store out of business, but I'll check back later after you get
your head out of your ass.

"Kalmia" > wrote in
> How many miles is it to your Costco and is it on the way to anywhere
> else you frequent? I think this must be a major factor in why ppl
> join. So in your case?

I belong to BJ's because there are three in my normal travel area, the
closest is 20 minutes away. Costco is about 60 miles and over an hour so I
don't have reason to go there.

I don't know how well I fit into your survey because I'll also drive 30
miles for rye bread and kielbasa. Every couple of months I'll also go 30
miles east to Providence to get Italian goodies.

"Ed Pawlowski" > writes:

> "Bogbrush" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > writes:
>>
>>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>>>> their presence has forced many
>>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>>
>>>> Enough?
>>>
>>> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
>>> to
>>> go out of business.
>>
>> That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever read on the 'net. I
>> congratulate you!
>>
>
> Thank you. Now show me where the big box stores have FORCED anyone out of
> business.
>
>>>
>>> Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when
>>> people
>>> decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
>>> reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will
>>> walk
>>> three times the distance from the mall parking lot.
>>>
>>> Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
>>> business.
>>
>> Are you really so retarded as to think that a big convenient "once stop
>> for all" shopping mall does not in any ways affect the customers a small
>> local shop gets? LOL. Stay off the stupid pills.
>
> Reading comprehension problems? It is definitely the CUSTOMER'S choice
> that is affects the small stores,. They make choices of their own free
> will. They are the ones that decide to patronized the big bad stores and
> leave the small stores alone. Sometimes for good reason, other times
> because many consumers are like lemmings.
>
> The times and consumer preferences have changed and business has to change
> with it or they DIE. Dry cleaners, shoe repair, barber shops are all fading
> away. Newspapers and magazines are starving. Did Wal-Mart cause that too?
> No, consumer preferences have.
>
> In any case, I'm not going to wait up tonight for your evidence of Wal-Mart
> forcing small store out of business, but I'll check back later after you get
> your head out of your ass.

You can play all the semantic games you want. These stores cost cut,
take all the customers and this directly forces the small shops out of
business. If you doubt this then you're an idiot.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> "gloria.p" wrote:
>>
>> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
>> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>
> What about chain stores like Safeway and Piggly-Wiggly?
> They put a much larger number of small local grocery
> stores and butcher shops out of business. Are you
> against them?
>
> What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
> put lots of small local bookstores out of business?
> Or Amazon, which will put big bookstore chains out of
> business?
>
> Or fast food francises, whose clean facilities and
> consistent products put lots of greasy spoon diners
> out of business? Or shoe stores that put local
> craftsman shoemakers out of business?
>
> There isn't any difference between any of these
> examples and Wa-Mart. Surely, you are not the sort
> of hypocrite that would ever buy food at a supermarket,
> books from Amazon, or shoes from a shoe store, are you


I agree with everything that Gloria has said, and I also see the Wal-Mart is
also a major employer, often in small towns that do not have good jobs.. I
just don't like the product selection or service at Wal-Mart. Why do I want
to stand in line to buy cheap imports? Now don't get my partner started on
Wal-Mart. He worked for IBM at one time and was sent to Bentonville for an
extended assignment with Wal-Mart. He can tell you how it was at corporate.
He will not go near a Wal-Mart.

That is what capitalism is all about. We have a choice where to spend our
money and why we prefer one business overt another.

Later,

Dale P

WTF > writes:

> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bogbrush" > wrote in message
...
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > writes:
>>>
>>>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>>>>> their presence has forced many
>>>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough?
>>>>
>>>> Wall Mart or any of the big box store have never forced any local store
>>>> to
>>>> go out of business.
>>>
>>> That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever read on the 'net. I
>>> congratulate you!
>>>
>>
>>Thank you. Now show me where the big box stores have FORCED anyone out of
>>business.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Small downtown stores started going out of business in the 60's when
>>>> people
>>>> decided it was more fun to go to the mall than downtown to shop. You get
>>>> reasons like the lack of parking down town while that same person will
>>>> walk
>>>> three times the distance from the mall parking lot.
>>>>
>>>> Customers (or the lack of), not Wal-Mart put the little store out of
>>>> business.
>>>
>>> Are you really so retarded as to think that a big convenient "once stop
>>> for all" shopping mall does not in any ways affect the customers a small
>>> local shop gets? LOL. Stay off the stupid pills.
>>
>>Reading comprehension problems? It is definitely the CUSTOMER'S choice
>>that is affects the small stores,. They make choices of their own free
>>will. They are the ones that decide to patronized the big bad stores and
>>leave the small stores alone. Sometimes for good reason, other times
>>because many consumers are like lemmings.
>>
>>The times and consumer preferences have changed and business has to change
>>with it or they DIE. Dry cleaners, shoe repair, barber shops are all fading
>>away. Newspapers and magazines are starving. Did Wal-Mart cause that too?
>>No, consumer preferences have.
>>
>>In any case, I'm not going to wait up tonight for your evidence of Wal-Mart
>>forcing small store out of business, but I'll check back later after you get
>>your head out of your ass.
>
> You got stock in Walmart ED?
>
> When walmart has a lawnmower for $99.00 made in China, and the local
> hardware store has an American made lawmower for $122.00 his lowest
> price, because he can't sell for less and stay in business, who do you
> think the consumer will buy from? So your Walmart didn't do it is
> completly wrong, and this wrong is happening all over the USA. They
> sell chinese products to Joe Lunchbox, and main street USA is dieing
> because of it. Go to Walmart and see how many USA products they
> actually sell, I bet 10% max., where 20 years ago it was 10% imports.
> One other thing, try to get a union into a Walmart, they'd rather
> close a store than allow it. Why you ask, it's simple ED they don't
> want to pay a wage people can live on.

I think Ed might have been eating too much of wal mart "thicky beans" or
something. He doesn't seem too clued into reality. I honestly never read
anything quite as dumb arse on the net before as his claims. And he's up
against some pretty stiff opposition.

"WTF" > wrote in message
> You got stock in Walmart ED?
>
> When walmart has a lawnmower for $99.00 made in China, and the local
> hardware store has an American made lawmower for $122.00 his lowest
> price, because he can't sell for less and stay in business, who do you
> think the consumer will buy from? So your Walmart didn't do it is
> completly wrong, and this wrong is happening all over the USA. They
> sell chinese products to Joe Lunchbox, and main street USA is dieing
> because of it. Go to Walmart and see how many USA products they
> actually sell, I bet 10% max., where 20 years ago it was 10% imports.
> One other thing, try to get a union into a Walmart, they'd rather
> close a store than allow it. Why you ask, it's simple ED they don't
> want to pay a wage people can live on.

No stock and I don't go there if I can so some other place. My lawnmower is
a John Deere (with a Kawasaki engine) Don't blame the store., Stores sell
what people want to buy. Blame the consumer that is very intent on saving a
few bucks at any cost. Fact is, I don't know of any toaster aside from the
very expensive Dualit (made in England) that is not made in China. That
includes such "American" brands like "Black and Decker, Kitchen Aid, GE etc.
Even if Wal-Mart wants to sell a made in USA toaster, they are not
available.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a new computer. All the parts are made
overseas, but it is assembled by a small shop run out of a guy's basement.
Over the years, I've bought maybe 15 computers from him for both home and
work. They are very reliable and reasonably priced. Every week he has
people stop in to buy a computer and leave because they can go to Staples or
buy from Dell and save $25. It is silly to blame the big stores when it is
the consumer that walk out. No one is blocking the door so they cannot get
in, they are making a choice, albeit not a good one.

This is not going to change until the consumer make a choice. My car is
Korean brand , but made in the USA of over 50% USA parts and is better
quality than my US brand of car. My computer was assembled in the USA. How
many parts in yours are USA made? Don't be blaming others if you bought
imported stuff. How about your camera?

Joe Lunchbox is buying the imported stuff so he can save a few pennies. He
does not care about your job, your pay rate he only cares about himself. He
has to buy that lawnmower cheap so he can buy a case of Bud and subsidize
the multi-million dollar salaries for ball players. The consumer is F'd up
so don't blame the stores.

"Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>
> You can play all the semantic games you want. These stores cost cut,
> take all the customers and this directly forces the small shops out of
> business. If you doubt this then you're an idiot.

They force the customers to buy bargains when they'd rather pay higher
prices? It is not a semantics game, it is fact. The stores put merchandize
on the shelf, they advertise it and the customers make the choice of where
to go. When you bought you car did you just walk in and pay the sticker
price? No, you probably negotiated and maybe visited two or three dealers.
I know of many car buyers that spend weeks negotiating to save $100 on a
$30,000 purchase or spend an hour finding the best price on a TV. Cheapest
store gets the business. If you blame the store for this, you are truly the
idiot.

Maybe the government should set prices. Works in Russia.

"Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>
> I think Ed might have been eating too much of wal mart "thicky beans" or
> something. He doesn't seem too clued into reality. I honestly never read
> anything quite as dumb arse on the net before as his claims. And he's up
> against some pretty stiff opposition.

I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have evidence of big box stores
forcing customers to stay away from the local merchants. Perhaps you have
news clippings of Wal Mart putting up a blockade, or Home Depot blocking the
downtown streets. I've met a few people like you, too dumb to know who the
real culprit is.

"Ed Pawlowski" > writes:

> "Bogbrush" > wrote in message
>>
>> I think Ed might have been eating too much of wal mart "thicky beans" or
>> something. He doesn't seem too clued into reality. I honestly never read
>> anything quite as dumb arse on the net before as his claims. And he's up
>> against some pretty stiff opposition.
>
> I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have evidence of big box stores
> forcing customers to stay away from the local merchants. Perhaps you have
> news clippings of Wal Mart putting up a blockade, or Home Depot blocking the
> downtown streets. I've met a few people like you, too dumb to know who the
> real culprit is.

So then Brain D'Ed, who is the "real culprit"?

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:25:34 -0600, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:14:21 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> There's a SAMS but seems the same.
>>
>> I hope the people who shop at Sam's realize that Sam is Sam Walton of
>> Walmart fame.
>>
>
>I knew that. I have been to the corporate headquarters in Arkansas and
>went to the visitors center which is in the old 5 and 10 that was Sam's
>first store. Very interesting place.
>
>They have a special building on the corporate campus where merchants
>bring their samples to negotiate deals. I didn't get to go in, but I did
>see many harried people toting huge, wheeled cases up and down the steps
>to that building.

Gives you a good idea of how they feel about their prospective
suppliers.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On 2/20/2010 9:16 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
> "gloria.p" wrote:
>>
>> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
>> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>
> What about chain stores like Safeway and Piggly-Wiggly?
> They put a much larger number of small local grocery
> stores and butcher shops out of business. Are you
> against them?
>
> What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
> put lots of small local bookstores out of business?
> Or Amazon, which will put big bookstore chains out of
> business?
>
> Or fast food francises, whose clean facilities and
> consistent products put lots of greasy spoon diners
> out of business? Or shoe stores that put local
> craftsman shoemakers out of business?
>
> There isn't any difference between any of these
> examples and Wa-Mart. Surely, you are not the sort
> of hypocrite that would ever buy food at a supermarket,
> books from Amazon, or shoes from a shoe store, are you?

I would say on a scale of 1-10 walmart is an 11 when it comes to
lowering the standard of living in the US. One of the reasons we are in
such trouble now is there is no substantial manufacturing base in the
US. In all prior downturns it was manufacturing that brough the economy
back. walmart was the main driver in the fad to continually beat up
manufacturers for lower cost no matter how it had to be done.

On 2/21/2010 12:19 AM, Dale P wrote:
> "Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "gloria.p" wrote:
>>>
>>> Their reputation for lower prices (possible because of the huge volume
>>> they purchase) is not always true and their presence has forced many
>>> small local stores to go out of business. Many Main Streets have been
>>> all but abandoned when a Walmart opens nearby.
>>
>> What about chain stores like Safeway and Piggly-Wiggly?
>> They put a much larger number of small local grocery
>> stores and butcher shops out of business. Are you
>> against them?
>>
>> What about bookstore chains like Barnes and Noble that
>> put lots of small local bookstores out of business?
>> Or Amazon, which will put big bookstore chains out of
>> business?
>>
>> Or fast food francises, whose clean facilities and
>> consistent products put lots of greasy spoon diners
>> out of business? Or shoe stores that put local
>> craftsman shoemakers out of business?
>>
>> There isn't any difference between any of these
>> examples and Wa-Mart. Surely, you are not the sort
>> of hypocrite that would ever buy food at a supermarket,
>> books from Amazon, or shoes from a shoe store, are you
>
>
> I agree with everything that Gloria has said, and I also see the
> Wal-Mart is also a major employer, often in small towns that do not have
> good jobs.. I just don't like the product selection or service at
> Wal-Mart. Why do I want to stand in line to buy cheap imports? Now don't
> get my partner started on Wal-Mart. He worked for IBM at one time and
> was sent to Bentonville for an extended assignment with Wal-Mart. He can
> tell you how it was at corporate. He will not go near a Wal-Mart.


They are certainly a major employer but at least in my state their
employees represent a major percentage of the population that require
"free" services from the government because the pay is so low. A
relative works at one of the gov't offices responsible for "free stuff"
and she said folks will often show up holding the guide that walamrt
gives them on where to sign up for their "benefit package".

>
> That is what capitalism is all about. We have a choice where to spend
> our money and why we prefer one business overt another.
>
> Later,
>
> Dale P

On 2/21/2010 12:58 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "WTF" > wrote in message
>> You got stock in Walmart ED?
>>
>> When walmart has a lawnmower for $99.00 made in China, and the local
>> hardware store has an American made lawmower for $122.00 his lowest
>> price, because he can't sell for less and stay in business, who do you
>> think the consumer will buy from? So your Walmart didn't do it is
>> completly wrong, and this wrong is happening all over the USA. They
>> sell chinese products to Joe Lunchbox, and main street USA is dieing
>> because of it. Go to Walmart and see how many USA products they
>> actually sell, I bet 10% max., where 20 years ago it was 10% imports.
>> One other thing, try to get a union into a Walmart, they'd rather
>> close a store than allow it. Why you ask, it's simple ED they don't
>> want to pay a wage people can live on.
>
> No stock and I don't go there if I can so some other place. My lawnmower
> is a John Deere (with a Kawasaki engine) Don't blame the store., Stores
> sell what people want to buy. Blame the consumer that is very intent on
> saving a few bucks at any cost. Fact is, I don't know of any toaster
> aside from the very expensive Dualit (made in England) that is not made
> in China. That includes such "American" brands like "Black and Decker,
> Kitchen Aid, GE etc. Even if Wal-Mart wants to sell a made in USA
> toaster, they are not available.
>
> A couple of weeks ago I bought a new computer. All the parts are made
> overseas, but it is assembled by a small shop run out of a guy's
> basement. Over the years, I've bought maybe 15 computers from him for
> both home and work. They are very reliable and reasonably priced. Every
> week he has people stop in to buy a computer and leave because they can
> go to Staples or buy from Dell and save $25. It is silly to blame the
> big stores when it is the consumer that walk out. No one is blocking the
> door so they cannot get in, they are making a choice, albeit not a good
> one.
>
> This is not going to change until the consumer make a choice. My car is
> Korean brand , but made in the USA of over 50% USA parts and is better
> quality than my US brand of car. My computer was assembled in the USA.
> How many parts in yours are USA made? Don't be blaming others if you
> bought imported stuff. How about your camera?
>
> Joe Lunchbox is buying the imported stuff so he can save a few pennies.
> He does not care about your job, your pay rate he only cares about
> himself. He has to buy that lawnmower cheap so he can buy a case of Bud
> and subsidize the multi-million dollar salaries for ball players. The
> consumer is F'd up so don't blame the stores.
>
>
>
Clearly you aren't seeing the relationships involved. walmart is the 900
lb gorilla because they made it popular to beat up suppliers no matter
what the cost so they either go out of business or go off shore. Joe
lunchbox doesn't even care about his own job when he buys at walmart.
Look around and ask yourself how many manufacturing facilities there
were in your are where Joe Lunchbox could have a real job. Ask yourself
why they aren't there anymore.

"Bogbrush" > wrote in
>> I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have evidence of big box stores
>> forcing customers to stay away from the local merchants. Perhaps you
>> have
>> news clippings of Wal Mart putting up a blockade, or Home Depot blocking
>> the
>> downtown streets. I've met a few people like you, too dumb to know who
>> the
>> real culprit is.
>
> So then Brain D'Ed, who is the "real culprit"?
>

Your neighbors, you dope. The ones that no longer shop at the local stores
and prefer to go elsewhere. It is called competition.

Most small retail stores started to die in the 1960's. They were done in by
the combination of the Interstate Highway system and the shopping mall.
Every year, more people decided to not go downtown, but to go to the mall
instead. Where I live, the stores were pretty much gone long before Wal
Mart and cheap goods existed.

Some store were done in by surly and shortsighted business owners. When I
moved 250 miles, I took our brand new appliances with us. A year later I
needed service and called the local Maytag dealer. He refused to service
anything that he did not sell. I explained I could not buy from him, but he
refused. Meantime, I bought a few new appliances over the next few years
and bought them from out of town instead of that ignorant ass. He went out
of business. He did not deserve my business and evidently others agreed.

When all of this was taking place, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, Staples did
not exist. The new wave of stores that did exist at the mall did thrive for
a number of years. Then they were replaced by Wal-Mart, Target, Kohls and a
few others. Eventually, they will go away and be replaced too.

Placing blame on a giant retailer is silly when consumer preferences is what
killed the small store. A few that have exceptional good and service still
thrive. Does anyone think that the restaurant business would not have
changed if it was not for cheap imported beef by McDonalds? Millions of
people every day have a choice and eat there every day.

Who do you blame for the demise of the Polaroid camera? They were done in
by low priced cameras that do not need film. Did you ever think Kodak would
have the problems it has when you bought a roll of film in 1975? Three of
the biggest employers in our region in 1980 were Digital Equipment, Data
General and Wang. They met their demise with the invention and
proliferation of the PC.

Take a look at what is going on around you. People make the choices that
they think is best for them. It used to be buying a Chevy from Bob's
Chevrolet, but the small car dealers have gone away and the huge dealers are
pushing the iron, just like Wal-Mart pushed cheap toasters. I drove GM
cars for years but the best car I ever drove was my Hyundai Sonata. Just
traded my '07 for a '10 model. My former Buick dealer is gone too.

"George" > wrote in
> Clearly you aren't seeing the relationships involved. walmart is the 900
> lb gorilla because they made it popular to beat up suppliers no matter
> what the cost so they either go out of business or go off shore. Joe
> lunchbox doesn't even care about his own job when he buys at walmart. Look
> around and ask yourself how many manufacturing facilities there were in
> your are where Joe Lunchbox could have a real job. Ask yourself why they
> aren't there anymore.

No, Wal-Mart is not the culprit. You had options and chose Wal-Mart
instead. This goes back long before they were even a 100 pound gorilla. Is
anyone forced to buy there? Many companies that do not do business with the
big box stores have made the decision to move manufacturing overseas.

Does Wal-Mart force businesses to sell to them? Do a search on
Wal-Mart+Vlasic and a search on Wal-Mart+Snapper mowers. No one forced
Vlasic to sell to the big stores, but they wanted the volume and paid the
price. The other stood up to them and is doing well. Greedy businesses are
lined up trying to sell to WM and they get caught short because they
willingly give in to their tactics. The do have free will do go elsewhere.
I experienced this at the company where I work. Twice we were strong armed
by our largest customers and twice, we told them no, go elsewhere. Our
profits increased and the places that took their business closed their
plants.

"Cindy Fuller" > wrote in message
...
> Ranee's post about the non-availability of good kosher hot dogs at
> Costco brought up an interesting sidebar. She said that she and Rich
> had let their Costco membership lapse. The SO and I have debated for
> years about the value of getting a Costco membership. I briefly had a
> Sam's Club membership many years ago, but I let it lapse because there
> wasn't one nearby when I moved from Dallas to Ithaca in 1986. Our
> neighbors are big Costco aficionados, and my relatives back east are
> devotees of BJ's and Sam's. To my thinking, a membership doesn't make
> much sense for the two of us. We don't have oodles of space to store
> large quantities of stuff. Anyone in a small household want to chime in
> one way or another?
>
> Cindy
>
> --
> C.J. Fuller
>
> Delete the obvious to email me

Your best bet is to get a list together of items you 'normally' buy and the
prices you pay for them. Get a guest card (usually good for one day) and
just browse. Some prices are good, some are equal in value, and some are
much higher. You can do 'okay' in a bulk store if you know your prices.
We have a card at BJ's (Costco is too far away for us) and I refuse to use
Sam's (I hate Wally World and all that goes with it). They have great
prices on rotisserie chickens and some of their meats are priced much less
than the grocers, but toilet paper and other things I can get cheaper in the
regular store. So it's up to you, is it worth the difference?
-ginny

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> The Martha Stewart products at Kmart are of decent quality, better than
> their lower-priced competition at other discount stores.
>
> Bob

But she defected. Sad, because, as you say, her products were
(and are elsewhere) decent.

--
Jean B.

George wrote:

> They are certainly a major employer but at least in my state their
> employees represent a major percentage of the population that require
> "free" services from the government because the pay is so low. A
> relative works at one of the gov't offices responsible for "free stuff"
> and she said folks will often show up holding the guide that walamrt
> gives them on where to sign up for their "benefit package".

I don't shop at Walmart, but admittedly do shop at SamsClub.
I refuse to set foot in a Walmart as not only do I worry about the
impact it has on the community, the American manufacturing climate and I
dislike some of what I hear about how they decide which products to
stock and how it happens. It also is usually a pretty crowded, difficult
to traverse around and trashy place, IMO. BUT.. it does seem as if
people hold Walmart to some double standard that makes no sense to me.
Why should they be forced to pay more than the mom & pop store down the
road pays their unskilled labor? These aren't high paying jobs no matter
where they are.... why do we blame Wallyworld for that?

On 2/21/2010 8:22 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "George" > wrote in
>> Clearly you aren't seeing the relationships involved. walmart is the
>> 900 lb gorilla because they made it popular to beat up suppliers no
>> matter what the cost so they either go out of business or go off
>> shore. Joe lunchbox doesn't even care about his own job when he buys
>> at walmart. Look around and ask yourself how many manufacturing
>> facilities there were in your are where Joe Lunchbox could have a real
>> job. Ask yourself why they aren't there anymore.
>
> No, Wal-Mart is not the culprit. You had options and chose Wal-Mart
> instead. This goes back long before they were even a 100 pound gorilla.
> Is anyone forced to buy there? Many companies that do not do business
> with the big box stores have made the decision to move manufacturing
> overseas.


Sure, but walmart was the one that popularized the idea that it was OK
to do it because of the profits it would generate. I always remember the
first responsible job I had. The owner of the business was a smart and
successful guy. His guideline was "the other guy has to eat". Simply
meaning it was OK to bargain but don't kill your supplier. walmart was
the one that really advanced the idea that it was OK to kill your
supplier if required to insure your own success. It was a fabulous
strategy. walmart told "Joe Lunchbox" that they were his friend and he
believed them. Then "Joe Lunchboxe's" job disappeared and he couldn't
understand why.

>
> Does Wal-Mart force businesses to sell to them? Do a search on
> Wal-Mart+Vlasic and a search on Wal-Mart+Snapper mowers. No one forced
> Vlasic to sell to the big stores, but they wanted the volume and paid
> the price. The other stood up to them and is doing well. Greedy
> businesses are lined up trying to sell to WM and they get caught short
> because they willingly give in to their tactics. The do have free will
> do go elsewhere. I experienced this at the company where I work. Twice
> we were strong armed by our largest customers and twice, we told them
> no, go elsewhere. Our profits increased and the places that took their
> business closed their plants.

I think that is way too much oversimplification. You might be able to
say no but if say you had large facilities that depend on economy of
scale and a customer represented say 30% of your possible sales it might
not be so easy.

On 2/21/2010 9:36 AM, Goomba wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> They are certainly a major employer but at least in my state their
>> employees represent a major percentage of the population that require
>> "free" services from the government because the pay is so low. A
>> relative works at one of the gov't offices responsible for "free
>> stuff" and she said folks will often show up holding the guide that
>> walamrt gives them on where to sign up for their "benefit package".
>
> I don't shop at Walmart, but admittedly do shop at SamsClub.
> I refuse to set foot in a Walmart as not only do I worry about the
> impact it has on the community, the American manufacturing climate and I
> dislike some of what I hear about how they decide which products to
> stock and how it happens. It also is usually a pretty crowded, difficult
> to traverse around and trashy place, IMO. BUT.. it does seem as if
> people hold Walmart to some double standard that makes no sense to me.
> Why should they be forced to pay more than the mom & pop store down the
> road pays their unskilled labor? These aren't high paying jobs no matter
> where they are.... why do we blame Wallyworld for that?

Walmart pays significantly less than what mom & pop payed. walmart
actually hands out instructions about how to get "free" medical care
and other services because most of their employees are in the official
poverty class.

"Stu" > wrote
> Is not a part of the American culture the Union? Well Walmart won't
> allow one to be setup in their stores, they'd rather close the store
> and open elsewhere. To me this doesn't sound like a good business to
> frequent, everyone except management are part time so they can't get
> enough hours to be eligible for benefits. Low wages, no security, no
> benefits, doesn't sound like a good working environment to me.
>

Back in the early 1900's, working conditions were poor and worse. Unions
did a lot for the working man to get a better wage, better working
conditions, eventually the 40 hour work week. They gained a lot of power
and some of them eventually strangled the employers and held them hostage
for wages not in keeping with the skills used, featherbedding, and so forth.
Meantime, enlightened employers offered good conditions and wages making
unions a non-issue in a lot of businesses. Union membership declined a lot
starting about 1970 or so.

Retail stores have been a haven for part timers, high school kids,
non-skilled workers. Some had unions, most did not. They offer little or
no benefits and that was just fine since Dad had the high paying job with
benefits and Mom just worked to make extra spending money.

While you say it does not sound like a good working environment, it has been
that way for many decades. I worked in small stores when I was in school
and made a few bucks, but did not need or want the benefits. That has
changed in many households in recent years. Mom no longer stays home and
makes dinner for the family and helps the kid with their homework.

Some retail stores do pay decent wages and offer benefits. Whole Foods is
one of them. If you have read the many threads about Whole Foods, people
here complain about the high prices they charge. The shop and Wal-Mart and
complain they don't treat their employees well enough. We all want to make
big bucks, but we are not willing to pay the price of them. My first TV was
a 19" portable that costs a week and a half in wages. Today I can buy a HD
color TV for two days wages and complain the retailer does not pay enough.
When you shop for appliances do you look for the best price or for the
employees making the most money?

IIRC, you own a business. Do your employees belong to a union? Have you
encouraged them to join one?

Personally, if it was 1925, I'd probably be a union organizer; they were
needed and did a lot of good. In 2010, I have no use for unions and have
never belonged to one. I do my own negotiating and work where I want to
work.