My bank charges me 35 cents every time I use my ATM card as a debit with
PIN. There's no charge if I use it as a credit card, though. Some
stores around here won't let me use it as a credit, such as Dollar Tree,
where I bought a lot of the food pantry food. Their machines will only
process it as a debit.

I use to buy material at my local quilt store and the owner always
complained if I used a credit card, she said it was too expensive for
her, and I don't mean for a small amount, but larger $25-$50 purchases.
I never carry cash so I offered to put it through on my debit card, and
she said it would cost her less if I did that, but she still didn't like
it. It always bugged me to shop there because I knew she was gonna
complain, she went out of business in just a couple of years.

Denise

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon 21 Sep 2009 04:43:30p, notbob told us...
>>
>>> On 2009-09-21, Gregory Morrow >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In a cost-cutting move, Whole Foods may emulate Fresh & Easy in
>>>> accepting
>>>> only cash and credit and debit cards at checkout.
>>>
>>> Gee! Whole Paycheck screws its customers yet again. Big surprise.
>>>
>>> nb
>
> Customers have been screwing stores with bounced checks for years. I've
> never used them for grocery shopping so I don't care either way.
>
>

Writing a check is a dying practice. Many people still use checks just to
use them up. Use a debit card. If you don't have the money, don't buy. Join
the electronic age.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon 21 Sep 2009 04:43:30p, notbob told us...
>>
>>> On 2009-09-21, Gregory Morrow >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In a cost-cutting move, Whole Foods may emulate Fresh & Easy in
>>>> accepting
>>>> only cash and credit and debit cards at checkout.
>>>
>>> Gee! Whole Paycheck screws its customers yet again. Big surprise.
>>>
>>> nb
>
> Customers have been screwing stores with bounced checks for years. I've
> never used them for grocery shopping so I don't care either way.
>
>

I use checks just to use them up. I also inherited a US stamp collection
wherein the stamps are valuable only as postage-I probably have about $50
worth of airmail stamps. So any check I write, is sent with 7 or 8 stamps on
the envelope for postage.

Kswck > wrote:

>Writing a check is a dying practice. Many people still use checks just to
>use them up. Use a debit card. If you don't have the money, don't buy. Join
>the electronic age.

I write a check to pay bills by mail. I would not think
of writing one routinely to pay for my purchase in a retail
store... that is a foreign concept to me.

Steve

> I've had a VISA combo debit card since they first began issuing them and
> have never had a single problem. *I use it for practically every
> purchase/payment I make, including online transactions.
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *Wayne Boatwright- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

My hack was an online order - it wasn't the website per se that got
hacked, it was the host of the website - Network Solutions LLC. For
12 days, during which time I bought a new electrician's tool for my
son. So I blamed it all on him ;-)

It certainly won't keep me from using it....

N.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>
> I emphaatically agree with rejecting debit cards, which my
> bank always tries to foise upon me at least once a year as
> a replacement for the traditional ATM card. You can't
> blame them; they charge the merchants up to 2% per transaction
> on the debit card. But it has the weakest possible
> consumer protection.
>
> Steve

you need a new bank. mine charges me zip for each debit card transaction.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy > wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> I emphaatically agree with rejecting debit cards, which my
>> bank always tries to foise upon me at least once a year as
>> a replacement for the traditional ATM card. You can't
>> blame them; they charge the merchants up to 2% per transaction
>> on the debit card. But it has the weakest possible
>> consumer protection.

>you need a new bank. mine charges me zip for each debit card transaction.
>

(1) You can't know what the merchants get charged; (2) there
is still much less consumer protection than with a credit
card.

Steve
>blake

On 2009-09-22, Robert Klute > wrote:

> I don't know about your bank, but mine does it for free. Saves me the
> cost of the check and the stamp.

My bank does everything for free. I pay for nothing. Checks, MOs,
xfers, coin counting, etc, is absolutely free to anyone over 50 yrs
age.

nb

On Sep 22, 9:57*am, George > wrote:

> And its the same mindset when they push their cart with 68 items into
> the 10 item express lane.


I lay the blame for this on the store -- which won't tell' em to get
to the regular line. If it's their policy to let it go, then what's
the point
of the express line?


I wonder what percentage of supermarket customers pay by check vs.
plastic vs. cash?

On Sep 22, 4:35*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> "MaryL" wrote
>
> > I still use either cash or checks for most of my grocery purchases. *With
> > checks, I fill out everything on the check except the amount while I am
> > waiting in line, then add the amount after my purchases are totaled. *That
> > doesn't take any longer than swiping a credit card, pressing a couple of
> > buttons (such as "right amount"), and signing the receipt.
>
> Same here. *What is disruptive is the person who waits to find the store
> card and credit card until it's all rung up, then spend 3-4 mins 'hunting
> the purse'.
>
> Be i check writing or using the credit card, I have it all out in advance
> and filled out as far as possible (checks). *As a matter of fact, i'm
> usually using a few coupons and they show a talley then scan them. *I write
> then and get the cash back from the coupons, normally finishing same time
> the cashier does. *What is also disruptive is an inexperienced cashier who
> doesnt know *how* to process a check.

Why don't you use a debit card? Fastest way to pay and be on your way.

Just curious as to your reason for still writing checks.

"Kalmia" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

>> Be i check writing or using the credit card, I have it all out in advance
>> and filled out as far as possible (checks). As a matter of fact, i'm
>> usually using a few coupons and they show a talley then scan them. I
>> write
>> then and get the cash back from the coupons, normally finishing same time
>> the cashier does. What is also disruptive is an inexperienced cashier who
>> doesnt know *how* to process a check.

>Why don't you use a debit card? Fastest way to pay and be on your way.

1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
non-existant. Because of the way my paychecks roll, I can easily have
9,000$ in my checking account. With a debit card, it is possible if hacked,
to have that disappear over night and you do not get it back.

2) Someone hacked an ATM machine at a bank of mine long ago. 2,000$ went
missing. I got it all back. Reason? I was able to prove I did not *have*
an ATM card. I had declined it when I got my account so had never been
issued one.

3) Checks for some expenditures suit me. Mailing checks for some bills and
things like that. My checking account has fraud protection for checks.

4) I use my credit card for groceries if the lines are short and I don't
think I'll have time to have a check ready. Then I have to remember to pay
that full amount off when the bill comes in (but then I normally pay the
full amount spent each month plus a bit towards my larger purchases and the
interest accrued that month). Generally if someone will have to wait while
I fill out a check, I'll go credit card.

5) It's a falsehood that checks take longer. You set them up when waiting
in line. What you 'notice' is the rude ones who don't do that. You never
notice the rest of us (the majority I think) who politely have it ready to
go. I even add the phone numbers and if that store puts your DL # on them,
I add that too. BEFORE I get to the cashier.

Now what will delay my checkout? Grin, coupons for 1. I have them all
sorted and hand them over first (along with any card that store may have)
but i *may* have up to 50 of them on some runs. Normally it's 15-20. The
other one is I mostly get a large amount of fresh veggies and fruits which
have to be weighed. (We are not vegetarian, but we come a bit close in
eating habits with meats normally being more to the garnish level so a
typical meal here would be rice, 3 veggies, a fruit, and a small meat
serving of 3-4oz).

So the next time you see a person where close to 50% of the cart seems to be
fresh veggies and fruits, it might be me ;-)

Oh, that 'has to be weighed' portion is also one of 2 reasons for why I
don't use self service lines. Cashiers are fast at that, I am not. I slow
down that self service line unacceptably to my mind so don't. The other is
i feel that every time one of us uses that line, we impact the job market as
the store no longer needs as many cashiers. I'm never in that much of a
rush. If I really am in a horrible rush, then that just isnt a shopping day
so I don't shop.

On Sep 21, 11:08*pm, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:
> On Mon 21 Sep 2009 04:43:30p, notbob told us...
>
> > On 2009-09-21, Gregory Morrow > wrote:
>
> >> In a cost-cutting move, Whole Foods may emulate Fresh & Easy in accepting
> >> only cash and credit and debit cards at checkout.
>
> > Gee! *Whole Paycheck screws its customers yet again. *Big surprise.
>
> > nb
>
> I wish they'd all do that. *I hate getting stuck behind someone writing a
> check, since most have made no effort to prepare for writing the check in
> advance. *Slows everybody down.

Oh you poor thing, you had to stand in line for an extra three seconds
while someone filled out the amount on a check.

Doesn't this same dumb discussion come up in here like every month?

Build a bridge, and get over it!

On 2009-09-23, cshenk > wrote:


> 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
> checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
> non-existant.

Bingo!

.....and they don't REQUIRE a pin number to work. Jes pass it to the
min wage clerk, who NEVER asks for ID, and shazam!, the money is gone.
Yeah, like I'm that stupid. I cut up the debit card my bank sent me
so fast, the plastic melted to the scissors.

nb

On Sep 23, 7:20*pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2009-09-23, cshenk > wrote:
>
> > 1)- I do not have a debit card. *The bank I use wants to attach it to my
> > checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
> > non-existant. *
>
> Bingo!
>
> ....and they don't REQUIRE a pin number to work. *Jes pass it to the
> min wage clerk, who NEVER asks for ID, and shazam!, the money is gone.
> Yeah, like I'm that stupid. *I cut up the debit card my bank sent me
> so fast, the plastic melted to the scissors. *
>
> nb

Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
and never leave the customer's hand.

Kalmia > wrote:

>Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
>and never leave the customer's hand.

What about when you use it for an online purchase? Surely
you don't give out your PIN to a website.

Steve

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 23, 7:20 pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2009-09-23, cshenk > wrote:
>
> > 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
> > checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
> > non-existant.
>
> Bingo!
>
> ....and they don't REQUIRE a pin number to work. Jes pass it to the
> min wage clerk, who NEVER asks for ID, and shazam!, the money is gone.
> Yeah, like I'm that stupid. I cut up the debit card my bank sent me
> so fast, the plastic melted to the scissors.
>
> nb

>Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
>and never leave the customer's hand.

ALL you have to do is run it through as a credit card. Then no number is
required. A recent development around here, and the major cause of people
forgetting their pins.

"notbob" wrote
>cshenk wrote:

>> 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
>> checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
>> non-existant.
>
> Bingo!
>
> ....and they don't REQUIRE a pin number to work. Jes pass it to the
> min wage clerk, who NEVER asks for ID, and shazam!, the money is gone.
> Yeah, like I'm that stupid. I cut up the debit card my bank sent me
> so fast, the plastic melted to the scissors.

Want better protection? Have them record that you decline it and deactivate
it. That way even if the system is hacked, they *have* to put your money
back because you do not have a debit card. 1981 and ATM machines taught me
do not have a card you do not use. You get protections against fraud of
that system if you literally have never been given one or have it
deactivated.

I was lucky. I had declined issue of the card and they couldnt track ever
having sent one. I got all my money back. Others had to hire lawyers and
provide all sorts of records to 'prove they didn't withdraw the money'. The
lawyers fees, they have to pay. It was specifically my college tuition and
fees via scholarship that had just arrived and the hacker timed real well
knowing so many of us had same arriving. Students with ATM cards couldnt
afford a lawyer or 'prove' they didnt just pull the money out. It was a
mess but the bank eventually agreed there was a problem and the college (a
local one) agreed we could all start on time and funds would come in later
since they were getting the same story from so many of us. I was the rare
one able to pay on time as they *couldnt* show me as possibly having an ATM
card and specifically showed me as declining one.

When I was in Japan, about 2003, I was notified by a local community bank
that there had been an ATM issue and a debit card issue and to check
statements. I had neither but replied back and requested information if
anything other than my standard autodeduct of house mortgage and IRA had
been used and if so, they had an alert. I reminded them I had neither and
was in Sasebo Japan so with no access to any local community bank access as
theirs is not international. There was no issue with my account, but the
wry answer was edifying: 'Smart Cookie, what you do not use and do not
therefore have, can not be used against you'.

So, think about what those debit cards are attached *to*. If you can setup
a secondary account to feed it (and it does *not* automatically refeed from
your primary when empty) then it's money you use but can afford to lose if
that happens and doesnt lead to your primary savings.

In my case, I'm happy as I am. So yeah, I use checks often enough.

What irks me is the number of 'adults' who havent a clue on the realities.
As bad as the ballon market crash hit us, clueless folks on this one are the
next target and it's happening. A lot.

"Kalmia" wrote

> > 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
> > checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
> > non-existant.
> Bingo!

> Debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
>and never leave the customer's hand.

Not all machines work that way.

If it leads to your primary account, and is used against you to clear that
account, you have to pay a lawyer to represent you and may or may not win.

Crewdit cardshave protection. Debit cards have almost none. Attach it to a
secondary account, never primary.

cshenk said...

> "Kalmia" wrote
>
>> > 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to
>> > my checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
>> > non-existant.
>> Bingo!
>
>> Debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
>>and never leave the customer's hand.
>
> Not all machines work that way.
>
> If it leads to your primary account, and is used against you to clear
> that account, you have to pay a lawyer to represent you and may or may
> not win.
>
> Crewdit cardshave protection. Debit cards have almost none. Attach it
> to a secondary account, never primary.


I use an RFID credit card where available. No scrutinizing screen prompts
and keypad nonsense. Just wave the card. No PIN, no signing, just get a
receipt and go.

As you mention, I lowered it down to $1,000 line of credit.

It does take a leap of faith to trust such a "freeway" of commerce.

Andy

Kalmia wrote:
> On Sep 23, 7:20 pm, notbob > wrote:
>> On 2009-09-23, cshenk > wrote:
>>
>>> 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
>>> checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
>>> non-existant.
>> Bingo!
>>
>> ....and they don't REQUIRE a pin number to work. Jes pass it to the
>> min wage clerk, who NEVER asks for ID, and shazam!, the money is gone.
>> Yeah, like I'm that stupid. I cut up the debit card my bank sent me
>> so fast, the plastic melted to the scissors.
>>
>> nb
>
> Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
> and never leave the customer's hand.

The gas station I primarily use, does not require a PIN on my debit
card. But I don't recall elsewhere it doesn't require a pin number. But
I have been using cash for the last several months at that station once
I realized they charged the same $.05 per/Gal sir-charge for the debit
card that they do for credit cards. That seriously peeves me because
they don't add the "credit" card charge if I were to write a check off
of my debit card account.

Bob

"notbob" > wrote in message
>
> My bank does everything for free. I pay for nothing. Checks, MOs,
> xfers, coin counting, etc, is absolutely free to anyone over 50 yrs
> age.
>
> nb

BS. You may not be paying, but someone is. Banks are profit making
institutions.

On Sep 23, 9:57*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "notbob" > wrote in message
>
> > My bank does everything for free. *I pay for nothing. *Checks, MOs,
> > xfers, coin counting, etc, is absolutely free to anyone over 50 yrs
> > age.
>
> > nb
>
> BS. *You may not be paying, but someone is. *Banks are profit making
> institutions.

>
>
I don't pay for my checking account, debit card, checks, cashiers
checks, online billpay, or travelers checks either. I have never paid
any fees. The interest they pay on savings accounts is a mere
pittance; that and home loans is where they make their money. (And
overdrafts)

On 2009-09-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> BS. You may not be paying, but someone is. Banks are profit making
> institutions.

BS yourself, Ed!

I wasn't talking about "someone", Ed. I was talking about myself and
customers over 50, Ed. I'm not interested in being dragged into some
stupid all encompassing unqualified argument, so let's keep the
replies relevant and without rancor, please...ED.

nb

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:05:56 GMT, notbob > wrote:

-->On 2009-09-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
-->>
-->> BS. You may not be paying, but someone is. Banks are profit making
-->> institutions.
-->
-->BS yourself, Ed!
-->
-->I wasn't talking about "someone", Ed. I was talking about myself and
-->customers over 50, Ed. I'm not interested in being dragged into some
-->stupid all encompassing unqualified argument, so let's keep the
-->replies relevant and without rancor, please...ED.
-->
-->nb


You're asking a great deal of him

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:32:36 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> I emphaatically agree with rejecting debit cards, which my
>>> bank always tries to foise upon me at least once a year as
>>> a replacement for the traditional ATM card. You can't
>>> blame them; they charge the merchants up to 2% per transaction
>>> on the debit card. But it has the weakest possible
>>> consumer protection.
>
>>you need a new bank. mine charges me zip for each debit card transaction.
>>
>
> (1) You can't know what the merchants get charged; (2) there
> is still much less consumer protection than with a credit
> card.
>

i don't give a shit what the merchant is charged. you were complaining
about what *you* were charged.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:57:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "notbob" > wrote in message
>>
>> My bank does everything for free. I pay for nothing. Checks, MOs,
>> xfers, coin counting, etc, is absolutely free to anyone over 50 yrs
>> age.
>>
>> nb
>
> BS. You may not be paying, but someone is. Banks are profit making
> institutions.

you sound awfully solicitous of other people all of a sudden.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:34:24 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia wrote:

> On Sep 22, 9:57*am, George > wrote:
>
>> And its the same mindset when they push their cart with 68 items into
>> the 10 item express lane.
>
> I lay the blame for this on the store -- which won't tell' em to get
> to the regular line. If it's their policy to let it go, then what's
> the point
> of the express line?
>

maybe they should add to their signs 'and we don't mean maybe!'

your pal,
blake

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:50:52 -0700 (PDT), "
>
> That's not true, age has nothing to do with how folks pay, in fact
> older folks have most of the disposable income and are more apt to pay
> using all methods. And the elderly in nursing homes have all their
> finances assigned, the home receives their SS check and pension check
> electronically, the elderly in nursing homes don't handle much money,
> they are permitted a small allowance for incidentals that are
> typically paid for with cash, candy bar machine, manicurist,
> newspapers, magazines, bingo.
>
>

Actually, there's a wide variety of how funds are handled in nursing homes.
My mother was not able to handle her finances, but nothing was assigned.
She was a private pay patient, and I took care of everything. I wrote
checks to the nursing home each month, to pharmacy for her prescriptions,
and to other places for incidentals. She had her own income, which usually
paid her expenses--it took careful budgeting, but I was usually able to
handle everything out of her pension and Social Security. On occasions when
she was hospitalized or had to use ambulance frequently, I would have to
transfer money out of her savings (which were rather meagre). This is
another reason why I like to write checks for some items--I was careful
never to intermingle her funds with mine, and I always wrote checks on her
account to pay for her expenses (I had power of attorney). I kept very
careful records of all of her expenses. Fortunately, my siblings were
always very supportive and never questioned anything (far different from
much of what I saw). By contrast, my mother's roommate was on Medicaid. He
expenses were paid for by Medicaid, and there were not funds at all to
"assign." The woman in the room next-door took care of everything herself.
She was alert, competent, had her own funds, but was no longer able to live
alone. Again, none of her funds were assigned. Incidentally, I was my
mother's sole caregiver for 5 years when she lived with me. She was in the
nursing home for another 5-1/2 years, and then I was her advocate and
"responsible person." It was obvious that patients who had someone to speak
on their behalf got better care than those who did not. Very unfair, but
true. Mother died two years ago at the age of 91.

MaryL

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:20:06 GMT, notbob wrote:

> On 2009-09-23, cshenk > wrote:
>
>> 1)- I do not have a debit card. The bank I use wants to attach it to my
>> checking account and the consumer protection for debit cards is
>> non-existant.
>
> Bingo!
>
> ....and they don't REQUIRE a pin number to work. Jes pass it to the
> min wage clerk, who NEVER asks for ID, and shazam!, the money is gone.
> Yeah, like I'm that stupid. I cut up the debit card my bank sent me
> so fast, the plastic melted to the scissors.
>
> nb

my debit card most certainly *does* require a PIN in order to process a
transaction.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:43:44 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

> Kalmia > wrote:
>
>>Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
>>and never leave the customer's hand.
>
> What about when you use it for an online purchase? Surely
> you don't give out your PIN to a website.
>
> Steve

are you sure it's not a dual-purpose card you're thinking of?

your pal,
blake

> > case would be to go to the bank (when they are open, since you don't
> > have an ATM card) and withdraw enough cash to see you through. *It was
> > super-annoying not to have my debit card for 10 days.
>
> > N.
>
> That was pretty slow for a new card. I received a call from my bank
> once that an online store had been hacked and had informed that my
> account number might have been compromised. They called to tell me
> that they were changing my account number, and I would be receiving a
> new card. Until then, my current card would not work. I got my new
> card two days later.
>
> Another time, I broke my card. I was able to superglue it back
> together enough to get it to work, but I needed a new card. I got a
> new one 3 days later. They have always been fast.

When they said I could pay $38 and get my new card in 3 days, that
told me that they were using this as a money-grabbing tool. If I
could get one in 3 days, they certainly didn't need 10 days to send me
one at no extra charge. It takes the same amount of time, physically,
either way.

N.

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:43:44 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>
> > Kalmia > wrote:
> >
> >>Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
> >>and never leave the customer's hand.
> >
> > What about when you use it for an online purchase? Surely
> > you don't give out your PIN to a website.
> >
> > Steve
>
> are you sure it's not a dual-purpose card you're thinking of?
>
> your pal,
> blake

Mine is. It says Visa on it and I use it like a credit card (except the
funds are withdrawn immediately from my checking account) and I use it
at ATMs.
-B



--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check
it out. And check this, too: <http://www.kare11.com/news/
newsatfour/newsatfour_article.aspx?storyid=823232&catid=323>

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:09:12 -0500, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

>
>"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:50:52 -0700 (PDT), "
>>
>> That's not true, age has nothing to do with how folks pay, in fact
>> older folks have most of the disposable income and are more apt to pay
>> using all methods. And the elderly in nursing homes have all their
>> finances assigned, the home receives their SS check and pension check
>> electronically, the elderly in nursing homes don't handle much money,
>> they are permitted a small allowance for incidentals that are
>> typically paid for with cash, candy bar machine, manicurist,
>> newspapers, magazines, bingo.
>>
>>
>
>Actually, there's a wide variety of how funds are handled in nursing homes.
>My mother was not able to handle her finances, but nothing was assigned.
>She was a private pay patient, and I took care of everything. I wrote
>checks to the nursing home each month, to pharmacy for her prescriptions,
>and to other places for incidentals. She had her own income, which usually
>paid her expenses--it took careful budgeting, but I was usually able to
>handle everything out of her pension and Social Security. On occasions when
>she was hospitalized or had to use ambulance frequently, I would have to
>transfer money out of her savings (which were rather meagre). This is
>another reason why I like to write checks for some items--I was careful
>never to intermingle her funds with mine, and I always wrote checks on her
>account to pay for her expenses (I had power of attorney). I kept very
>careful records of all of her expenses. Fortunately, my siblings were
>always very supportive and never questioned anything (far different from
>much of what I saw). By contrast, my mother's roommate was on Medicaid. He
>expenses were paid for by Medicaid, and there were not funds at all to
>"assign." The woman in the room next-door took care of everything herself.
>She was alert, competent, had her own funds, but was no longer able to live
>alone. Again, none of her funds were assigned. Incidentally, I was my
>mother's sole caregiver for 5 years when she lived with me. She was in the
>nursing home for another 5-1/2 years, and then I was her advocate and
>"responsible person." It was obvious that patients who had someone to speak
>on their behalf got better care than those who did not. Very unfair, but
>true. Mother died two years ago at the age of 91.
>
>MaryL

Most don't have funds to pay as they go, least not for very long. And
those whose health is failing and who do have sizeable assets
typically want to give their assets to relatives, friends, and
institutions of their own choosing rather than spend it all on nursing
home care. In the US by Federal Law they have three years before
entering a nursing home to dispense their assets as they see fit and
can hold a small savings account of like $5,000 for burial expences...
the IRS will go back three years and if any sizable monies were
dispenced they will need to be repaid. Having POA doesn't
necessarilly mean you were her legal guardian. Your mother was
fortunate (I suppose) to have survived in a nursing home for over 5
years, and to have the funds to do so. Nursing homes are rated as to
ones ability to care for oneself... homes for those who are not
ambulatory and need special care can be quite costly... your mom was
probably fairly wealthy and/or not very ill. In many such instances
it would be better for a child to have a parent live in their home and
use some of the assets for the minimum home care required. Naturally
every case is different but most simply do not have the funds to pay
as they go for any length of time... and nursing homes know how to
make people deteriorate more rapidly so as to use their funds up more
rapidly, then the home makes more money by billing for higher levels
of care. Keeping tabs on things in no way guarantees better care...
one of the first things nursing homes do is keep the elderly in
wheelchairs, within six month their muscles atrophy and they are no
longer ambulatory... the nursing home has less work caring for the
wheelchair bound and the billing doubles.

In article >,
"big fish" > wrote:


> If you run lean on your bank account there can be another problem. When you
> use a debit card to purchase say something like gas, the merchant will put a
> hold of up to $100.00 on your account. Any transactions after that will put
> you at an overdraw and you will pay fees for that.

I hadn't thought about it for debit cards, but it makes sense. It works
just the same for credit cards. When you go to a clothing store and buy
an arm full of clothing, you get charged when you buy it. At the fuel
station, it's not "something like gas". It's any fuel purchase. When
you swipe the card, nobody really knows how much you are going to spend.
So the station and the card company have a fixed agreement. At the time
you swipe the credit card, a hold is placed on your account for a fixed
amount. US$100 sounds reasonable in this time of fluctuating gas prices
and big tanks. My tank holds 26.1 gallons. At US$4.00 a gallon, that's
already more than US$100, although I don't let my tank run that low.
When your transaction is complete, the automated pump sends two
transactions to your credit card company, one to cancel the hold and the
other to simultaneously charge the amount of your actual purchase. This
works well, except when you are only going to get US$5 worth of gas and
the hold puts you over your credit limit. The transaction will be
rejected, but I'm sure you can go inside, charge US$5 to your credit
card, and the attendant can set the pump to give you US$5 worth of gas
before grinding to a halt.

My uncle got nailed by this a while back. He owned a huge van, with a
huge gas tank. We were in Idaho, where gas is cheaper, so he wanted to
fill his tank. He got US$75 worth and the pump stopped. It would not
give him any more gas until he completed that transaction and started a
whole new one, from the beginning, which he did for the additional US$10
worth of gas. I'm guessing that prices had gone up too fast for the
station and the credit card company to up the hold amount.

> I refuse any attempt to get me to use a debit card. I use my credit card for
> purchase.

There are some good reasons for that. The above isn't one of them.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:15:31 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:43:44 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>>
>> > Kalmia > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Huh? The debit cards I am familiar with always require a PIN
>> >>and never leave the customer's hand.
>> >
>> > What about when you use it for an online purchase? Surely
>> > you don't give out your PIN to a website.
>> >
>> > Steve
>>
>> are you sure it's not a dual-purpose card you're thinking of?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Mine is. It says Visa on it and I use it like a credit card (except the
>funds are withdrawn immediately from my checking account) and I use it
>at ATMs.

There are debit and credit cards. Basically with credit cards the
credit card issuer is extending you a line of credit which you exercise
each time you pay for something with your credit card. It is really no
different than writing a check against a home equity line of credit. We
sometimes forget this because the merchant is willing to not charge you
interest on the loan amount if you pay of the loan within the billing
period - the fees charged to the merchant are sufficient to make a
profit.

With a debit card, the funds are directly and immediately withdrawn from
a specified account (the account 'linked' to the card). Insufficient
funds and the transaction fails. There are basically two incarnations
of debit cards floating around. First is what is commonly referred to
as their ATM card. This card requires the use of a PIN to complete the
transaction.

The Second is the cards capable of PIN-less debits. These are
associated with a credit card issuer - VISA or Mastercard. They allow
for a 'credit card' type of transaction, but the money is directly
debited from your account. These types of transactions do carry
protections similar to what credit cards do, but you need to check with
your bank as to what they exactly are. The biggest risk is that it is
your checking account that is at risk if the card is stolen until the
protections kick in.

That said, I have never accepted a PIN-less capable debit card. I do
have an 'ATM' card and a traditional credit card (2 actually, one for
face-to-face and one for internet transactions). On the other hand,
when I sent my son off to college, I suggested he get the 'combo' card.
It suited his temperment and lifestyle better to be able to only have to
deal with a single card and at the same time not have to handle the
risks associated with being in credit card debt.

blake murphy > wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:32:36 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:38 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>>>> I emphaatically agree with rejecting debit cards, which my
>>>> bank always tries to foise upon me at least once a year as
>>>> a replacement for the traditional ATM card. You can't
>>>> blame them; they charge the merchants up to 2% per transaction
>>>> on the debit card. But it has the weakest possible
>>>> consumer protection.

>>>you need a new bank. mine charges me zip for each debit card transaction.
>>>

>> (1) You can't know what the merchants get charged; (2) there
>> is still much less consumer protection than with a credit
>> card.

>i don't give a shit what the merchant is charged. you were complaining
>about what *you* were charged.

I was? Where?

Steve

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:02:15 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Bob Muncie > wrote:
>
>> The gas station I primarily use, does not require a PIN on my debit
>> card. But I don't recall elsewhere it doesn't require a pin number. But
>> I have been using cash for the last several months at that station once
>> I realized they charged the same $.05 per/Gal sir-charge for the debit
>> card that they do for credit cards. That seriously peeves me because
>> they don't add the "credit" card charge if I were to write a check off
>> of my debit card account.
>>
>> Bob
>
>What they're doing may not be "legal" in their agreement with the
>credit card companies‹adding the surcharge for card use. Ask your card
>company.

If it doesn't require a PIN it is technically a 'credit card' purchase.
If the gas station is not set up to handle PIN-based (ATM) transactions,
the transaction is actually being routed through the merchant
bank/credit card network. The fees associated with PIN-less
transactions are higher than PIN-based transactions.

"ffu" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:05:56 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
> -->On 2009-09-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> -->>
> -->> BS. You may not be paying, but someone is. Banks are profit making
> -->> institutions.
> -->
> -->BS yourself, Ed!
> -->
> -->I wasn't talking about "someone", Ed. I was talking about myself and
> -->customers over 50, Ed. I'm not interested in being dragged into some
> -->stupid all encompassing unqualified argument, so let's keep the
> -->replies relevant and without rancor, please...ED.
> -->
> -->nb
>
>
> You're asking a great deal of him

Yes, you know me so well.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:

> > are you sure it's not a dual-purpose card you're thinking of?

> Mine is. It says Visa on it and I use it like a credit card (except
> the funds are withdrawn immediately from my checking account) and I
> use it at ATMs.

I refuse to have those. Credit cards are safer.



Brian

--
Day 234 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project

In article >,
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...

> > That's not true, age has nothing to do with how folks pay, in fact
> > older folks have most of the disposable income and are more apt to pay
> > using all methods. And the elderly in nursing homes have all their
> > finances assigned, the home receives their SS check and pension check
> > electronically, the elderly in nursing homes don't handle much money,
> > they are permitted a small allowance for incidentals that are
> > typically paid for with cash, candy bar machine, manicurist,
> > newspapers, magazines, bingo.

Sheldon, the expert on absolutely everything. However, much of his
information is false. There's that old saying about the fox guarding
the henhouse. Sending the money to the nursing home sounds like
trouble, although maybe it happens if there is no alternative. My wife
handled her mother's finances once her mother was incompetent.

> Actually, there's a wide variety of how funds are handled in nursing homes.

I'm sure there is.

> mother's sole caregiver for 5 years when she lived with me. She was in the
> nursing home for another 5-1/2 years, and then I was her advocate and
> "responsible person." It was obvious that patients who had someone to speak
> on their behalf got better care than those who did not. Very unfair, but
> true. Mother died two years ago at the age of 91.

My father is in an Adult Home. My sister lives about a mile away, and
keeps a close eye on the place. They know it, too. She knows the
owners (who own five Adult Homes, all former converted private
residences) and doesn't hesitate to call them when she sees a problem
that the resident caregivers don't seem to be taking care of. She is a
personal friend of the head nurse (from before the nurse started working
there) and one of the owners is an RN.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA