I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix. (Note: no tomatoes or
paste added, I didn't have any on hand). Added liquid. One small can
chicken stock, and about 3/4 can water. Simmered for one hour. I
then tried something new. Instead of quartering mushrooms the way I
used to, I put them in whole, and let simmer for another hour. Then
added about 1 1/4 cup sour cream. Let it simmer slowly, very slowly
for about 15 minutes. It turned out nice. I found it somewhat bland
when served over noodles. So add a touch of salt, and it was very
good. This was very simple and good. I personally didn't care much
for the whole mushrooms, but my guest liked it more than if I had cut
them up. I forgot garlic. But it was really good. I don't see too
many recipes that use paprika in beef stroganoff. But that's how I
was taught, and I like it. Note that I did not add anything to
thicken, nor did I coat beef with flour. The sauce was a wee bit
thinner than usual, the paprika does help to thicken a bit. But I
don't mind a thin sauce. I think that all of that flour; who needs
it? You can do this with white wine, or a mix of wine and chick
stock, or beef stock. I've done that before, and it's good. I always
use white, and never red wine in a stroganoff. Why? I don't know. I
think it belongs here. It's a light colored sauce...? Oh yeah..I
deglazed pan very thoroughly with a bit of cider vinegar, really
scraping stuff off the bottom, between batches of meat, and also after
onions were browned. You can use vino here too. Lemon/Lime juice...

telephone wrote:
> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.

(snip ridiculous spillage)

"spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the sour
cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.

Jill

On 2 Nov, 17:54, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> telephone wrote:
> > I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). *Trimmed all fat. *Cut into
> > strips. *Browned it off nicely in butter. *2 batches. *Butter was
> > brown, but not black. *I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
> > batch. * Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
> > Slowly. *Until nice and brown. *Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
> > too much, just enough for a little oomph). *Added some mild Hungarian
> > Paprika. *Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. *Added browned
> > beef. *Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> "spice mix'? *You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. *Where is the sour
> cream? *At least you didn't use ground beef.
>
> Jill

It's you who have no clue. I know how the original was made. This is
not an original. "Where is the sour cream?" You didn't even read my
post. Jill. Like **** off and croak. The only thing that comes to
mind, is that you are jealous and overwhelmed by my post, because I
know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you would not have attacked so
ferociously. Get back in the kitchen, and learn how to cook. Better
yet. Don't bother. You probably don't have the talent to be a
shoemaker let alone a decent cook. Or don't you like new posters?
Whatever. You obviously suffer from a weak ego problem so I'll let
you alone now.

"telephone" > wrote in message

> On 2 Nov, 17:54, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>> telephone wrote:
>>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
>>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
>>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
>>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
>>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
>>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
>>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
>>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>>
>> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>>
>> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the
>> sour cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>>
>> Jill
>
> It's you who have no clue. I know how the original was made. This is
> not an original. "Where is the sour cream?" You didn't even read my
> post. Jill. Like **** off and croak. The only thing that comes to
> mind, is that you are jealous and overwhelmed by my post, because I
> know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you would not have attacked so
> ferociously. Get back in the kitchen, and learn how to cook. Better
> yet. Don't bother. You probably don't have the talent to be a
> shoemaker let alone a decent cook. Or don't you like new posters?
> Whatever. You obviously suffer from a weak ego problem so I'll let
> you alone now.

It would really help if you would learn to punctuate and use paragraphs.

--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

On 2 Nov, 18:18, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> "telephone" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Nov, 17:54, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >> telephone wrote:
> >>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
> >>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
> >>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
> >>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
> >>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
> >>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
> >>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
> >>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> >> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> >> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the
> >> sour cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>
> >> Jill
>
> > It's you who have no clue. *I know how the original was made. *This is
> > not an original. *"Where is the sour cream?" *You didn't even read my
> > post. *Jill. *Like **** off and croak. *The only thing that comes to
> > mind, is that you are jealous and overwhelmed by my post, because I
> > know what I'm talking about. *Otherwise you would not have attacked so
> > ferociously. *Get back in the kitchen, and learn how to cook. *Better
> > yet. *Don't bother. *You probably don't have the talent to be a
> > shoemaker let alone a decent cook. *Or don't you like new posters?
> > Whatever. *You obviously suffer from a weak ego problem so I'll let
> > you alone now.
>
> It would really help if you would learn to punctuate and use paragraphs.
>

Oh a grammer boy. Thanks for the info. From now on, I'll make sure
to use proper punctuation and paragraphing it if means so much to
you. Normal people who love to cook don't usually give a darn about
perfect grammer etc. As long as they can groove off each other it's
ok. But for you, I'll make an extra effort. I don't want you to cry
or anything. As an anal retentive, you must shed the odd tear now and
then what?

"telephone" > wrote in message
...
You probably don't have the talent to be a
shoemaker let alone a decent cook.

Shoemaker? Do they even exist anymore? You try making a shoe from raw
materials.

On 2 Nov, 18:40, "dejablues" > wrote:
> "telephone" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> *You probably don't have the talent to be a
> shoemaker let alone a decent cook.
>
> Shoemaker? Do they even exist anymore? *You try making a shoe from raw
> materials.

They are few and far between. They mostly do shoe repair work. Being
told that one should be a shoemaker is actually an insult that
tradespeople throw out when they are confronted with an inferior. In
reality, a bona fide shoemaker is also skilled; although in a limited
way. This 'insult' dates from the days when there were many
shoemakers plying their wares. It's still used by tradesmen such as
cooks, machinists, toolmakers, etc.

"telephone" > wrote in message
...
On 2 Nov, 18:40, "dejablues" > wrote:
> "telephone" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> You probably don't have the talent to be a
> shoemaker let alone a decent cook.
>
> Shoemaker? Do they even exist anymore? You try making a shoe from raw
> materials.

>They are few and far between. They mostly do shoe repair work.

I can think of two, and they also repair anything made of leather like
belts, handbags, and luggage. Back in the day they probably repaired harness
leather and saddlery as well.

(As an aside, I heard a report on NPR about why ridiculously high heels are
still being shown on catwalks in fashion shows. Apparently it's because
designers know their clothing will be rapidly knocked-off with cheap copies
mass-produced and sold, but they know that it is much more difficult to do
that with a pair of shoes, so, if a fashion-conscious buyer wants that
particular pair of shoes, they have to buy them from the original designer.)

> Being
>told that one should be a shoemaker is actually an insult that
>tradespeople throw out when they are confronted with an inferior. In
>reality, a bona fide shoemaker is also skilled; although in a limited
>way. This 'insult' dates from the days when there were many
>shoemakers plying their wares.

That was a long time ago, when shoes were expensive, you only got a few
pairs in your lifetime, and there weren't shoe factories in China churning
out cheap shoes.

>It's still used by tradesmen such as
>cooks, machinists, toolmakers, etc.

Probably just cooks. The only reference I found was this : "Chefs and cooks
sometimes use the term "shoemaker" as an insult, implying that the chef in
question has made his food as tough as shoe leather."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoemaking

Ah, the pecking order - why do we feel the need to insult those that we deem
lower on the human totem pole, but still provide an indispensible service?
The shoemakers, the garbage collectors, the sewage workers, the
burger-flippers...
I suppose everyone needs to feel that they are above someone else.

On Nov 2, 5:26*pm, telephone > wrote:
> On 2 Nov, 18:18, "James Silverton" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "telephone" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > > On 2 Nov, 17:54, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> > >> telephone wrote:
> > >>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
> > >>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
> > >>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
> > >>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
> > >>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
> > >>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
> > >>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
> > >>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> > >> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> > >> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the
> > >> sour cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>
> > >> Jill
>
> > > It's you who have no clue. *I know how the original was made. *This is
> > > not an original. *"Where is the sour cream?" *You didn't even read my
> > > post. *Jill. *Like **** off and croak. *The only thing that comes to
> > > mind, is that you are jealous and overwhelmed by my post, because I
> > > know what I'm talking about. *Otherwise you would not have attacked so
> > > ferociously. *Get back in the kitchen, and learn how to cook. *Better
> > > yet. *Don't bother. *You probably don't have the talent to be a
> > > shoemaker let alone a decent cook. *Or don't you like new posters?
> > > Whatever. *You obviously suffer from a weak ego problem so I'll let
> > > you alone now.
>
> > It would really help if you would learn to punctuate and use paragraphs..
>
> Oh a grammer boy. *Thanks for the info. *From now on, I'll make sure
> to use proper punctuation and paragraphing it if means so much to
> you. *Normal people who love to cook don't usually give a darn about
> perfect grammer etc. *As long as they can groove off each other it's
> ok. *But for you, I'll make an extra effort. *I don't want you to cry
> or anything. *As an anal retentive, you must shed the odd tear now and
> then what?
=================================
Dear "telephone",
I beg your pardon! I am an excellent cook and a published food
writer. I've neen posting on r.f.c. for many years. I use good
grammar, proper spelling AND I have manners. Clean up your act.

Lynn Gifford
Fargo North Dakota
yes, that's my real name . . . what's yours?

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> telephone wrote:
>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff.

The "spice mix" was a mixture of hot and mild Hungarian paprika, I think?


> Where is the sour cream?

"Added liquid. One small can
chicken stock, and about 3/4 can water. Simmered for one hour. I
then tried something new. Instead of quartering mushrooms the way I
used to, I put them in whole, and let simmer for another hour. Then
added about 1 1/4 cup sour cream. Let it simmer slowly, very slowly
for about 15 minutes......."

Sounds like a nice enough recipe to me. <shrug>

Mary

On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:39:24 -0500, "dejablues" >
wrote:

>Ah, the pecking order - why do we feel the need to insult those that we deem
>lower on the human totem pole, but still provide an indispensible service?
>The shoemakers, the garbage collectors, the sewage workers, the
>burger-flippers...
>I suppose everyone needs to feel that they are above someone else.

Custom shoe makers make a very good living these days!


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"jmcquown" > wrote in news:6n6pdsFj9pt5U1
@mid.individual.net:

> telephone wrote:
>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the sour
> cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>
> Jill
>
>

Ground beef woulda been better than round steak at least it has some taste
to it.. Round steak has no taste at all; way too bland. Chuck or sirlon
woulda been way better. Brisket rules for stroganoff as it does for most
braised beef dishes.

--

The beet goes on -Alan

"James Silverton" > wrote in news:BzqPk.2359
:

> "telephone" > wrote in message
>
>> On 2 Nov, 17:54, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>>> telephone wrote:
>>>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
>>>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
>>>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
>>>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
>>>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
>>>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
>>>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
>>>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>>>
>>> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>>>
>>> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the
>>> sour cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> It's you who have no clue. I know how the original was made. This is
>> not an original. "Where is the sour cream?" You didn't even read my
>> post. Jill. Like **** off and croak. The only thing that comes to
>> mind, is that you are jealous and overwhelmed by my post, because I
>> know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you would not have attacked so
>> ferociously. Get back in the kitchen, and learn how to cook. Better
>> yet. Don't bother. You probably don't have the talent to be a
>> shoemaker let alone a decent cook. Or don't you like new posters?
>> Whatever. You obviously suffer from a weak ego problem so I'll let
>> you alone now.
>
> It would really help if you would learn to punctuate and use paragraphs.
>

It would really help if he had a clue.

--

The beet goes on -Alan

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> telephone wrote:
>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the sour
> cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>
> Jill
I thought the same. As I've done, you should use only tenderloin and lightly
cook it in the sauce very briefly. Then I came up with the following URL.
http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodmeat...beefstroganoff When the page
comes up hit Beef Stroganoff. I found that quite interesting, with all sorts
of recipe definitions.

As life goes on,

Theron

On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:25:10 -0800, Theron wrote:

> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> telephone wrote:
>>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
>>> strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
>>> brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
>>> batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
>>> Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
>>> too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
>>> Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
>>> beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>>
>> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>>
>> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the sour
>> cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>>
>> Jill
> I thought the same. As I've done, you should use only tenderloin and lightly
> cook it in the sauce very briefly. Then I came up with the following URL.
> http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodmeat...beefstroganoff When the page
> comes up hit Beef Stroganoff. I found that quite interesting, with all sorts
> of recipe definitions.
>
> As life goes on,
>
> Theron

i, too, thought it was a quick sauté. but i guess if you're using round
rather than tenderloin, adjustments must be made.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:24:36 GMT:

>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> telephone wrote:
>>>> I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat.
>>>> Cut into strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2
>>>> batches. Butter was brown, but not black. I added a
>>>> little olive oil to the butter 2nd batch. Browned one
>>>> yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse) Slowly. Until
>>>> nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not too
>>>> much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild
>>>> Hungarian Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10
>>>> minutes. Added browned beef. Coated with the onion and
>>>> spice mix.
>>>
>>> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>>>
>>> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where
>>> is the sour cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>>>
>>> Jill
>> I thought the same. As I've done, you should use only
>> tenderloin and lightly cook it in the sauce very briefly.
>> Then I came up with the following URL.
>> http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodmeat...beefstroganoff When the
>> page comes
>> up hit Beef Stroganoff. I found that quite interesting, with
>> all sorts of recipe definitions.
>>
>> As life goes on,
>>
>> Theron

> i, too, thought it was a quick sauté. but i guess if you're
> using round rather than tenderloin, adjustments must be made.

My understanding of the original Beef Stroganoff recipe was that it used
high quality lean beef cooked only until rare before the sour cream was
added. There would not be much more cooking as the sour cream warmed up.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" schrieb :
<snip>
> My understanding of the original Beef Stroganoff recipe was that it used high
> quality lean beef cooked only until rare before the sour cream was added.
> There would not be much more cooking as the sour cream warmed up.
>
Yes. The recipe was invented to use up beef-filet tips which were too small
for steaks.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Michael Kuettner wrote:
> "James Silverton" schrieb :
> <snip>
>> My understanding of the original Beef Stroganoff recipe was that it
>> used high quality lean beef cooked only until rare before the sour
>> cream was added. There would not be much more cooking as the sour
>> cream warmed up.
> Yes. The recipe was invented to use up beef-filet tips which were too
> small for steaks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner


Yep. My mother's recipe always called for beef tenderloin, thinly sliced.
The sour cream is stirred in at the very end only until just heated through.
Our friend "telephone" doesn't know how to cook this dish.

Jill

"telephone" > wrote in message
...
On 2 Nov, 17:54, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> telephone wrote:
> > I purchased a whole round steak (2 lbs.). Trimmed all fat. Cut into
> > strips. Browned it off nicely in butter. 2 batches. Butter was
> > brown, but not black. I added a little olive oil to the butter 2nd
> > batch. Browned one yellow onion + 1/3.(chopped medium coarse)
> > Slowly. Until nice and brown. Added some Hot Hungarian Paprika (not
> > too much, just enough for a little oomph). Added some mild Hungarian
> > Paprika. Let it slowly saute' for about 10 minutes. Added browned
> > beef. Coated with the onion and spice mix.
>
> (snip ridiculous spillage)
>
> "spice mix'? You have no clue about Beef Stroganoff. Where is the sour
> cream? At least you didn't use ground beef.
>
> Jill

It's you who have no clue. I know how the original was made. This is
not an original. "Where is the sour cream?" You didn't even read my
post. Jill. Like **** off and croak. The only thing that comes to
mind, is that you are jealous and overwhelmed by my post, because I
know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you would not have attacked so
ferociously. Get back in the kitchen, and learn how to cook. Better
yet. Don't bother. You probably don't have the talent to be a
shoemaker let alone a decent cook. Or don't you like new posters?
Whatever. You obviously suffer from a weak ego problem so I'll let
you alone now.

Next time get Hamburger helper - you're an idiot and Jill could cook circles
around you blindfolded.

Dimitri

Beef Stroganoff
The origin and history of Beef Stroganoff is an excellent lesson in food
lore. While food historians generally agree the dish takes its name from
Count Stroganoff, a 19th century Russian noble, there are conflicting
theories regarding the genesis of this "classic" dish. Certainly, there is
evidence confirming the recipe predate the good Count and his esteemed chef.
"Despite the allusion of the name "stroganoff" to Count Paul Stroganoff, a
19th century Russian diplomat, the origins of the dish have never been
confirmed. Larousse Gastronomique notes that similar dishes were known since
the 18th century but insists the dish by this specific name was the creation
of chef Charles Briere who was working in St. Petersburg when he submitted
the recipe to L 'Art Culinaire in 1891, but the dish seems much older. It
did not appear in English cookbooks until 1932, and it was not until the
1940s that beef stroganoff became popular for elegant dinner parties in
America."
---Restaurant Hospitality, John Mariani, January 1999 (p. 76).
"Unlike the French, who name dishes after the chefs who devised them, the
Russians have usually attached the names of famous households to their
cuisine--the cooks were usually serfs. For example, we have Beef Stroganoff,
Veal Orlov, and Bagration Soup. One of the few exceptions is a cutlet of
poultry of real named after Pozharskii, a famous tavern keeper...The last
prominent scion of the dynasty, Count Pavel Stroganoff, was a celebrity in
turn-of-the-century St. Petersburg, a dignitary at the court of Alexander
III, a member of the Imperial Academy of Arts, and a gourmet. It is doubtful
that Beef Stroganoff was his or his chef's invention since the recipe was
included in the 1871 edition of the Molokhovets cookbook...which predates
his fame as a gourmet. Not a new recipe, by the way, but a refined version
of an even older Russian recipe, it had probably been in the family for some
years and became well known through Pavel Stroganoff's love of
entertaining."
---The Art of Russian Cuisine, Anne Volokh with Mavis Manus [Macmillan:New
York] 1983 (p. 266)
"Beef stroganoff is a dish consisting of strips of lean beef sauteed and
served in a sour-cream sauce with onions and mushrooms. The recipe, which is
of Russian origin, has been known since the eighteenth century, but its name
appears to come from County Paul Stroganoff, a nineteeth-century Russian
diplomat. Legend has it that when he was stationed in deepest Siberia, his
chef discovered that the beef was frozen so solid that it could only be
coped with by cutting it into very thin strips. The first English cookery
book to include it seems to have been Ambrose Heath's Good Food (1932)."
---An A-Z of Food & Drink, John Ayto [Oxford University Press:Oxford] 2002
(p. 326-7)
"Count Pavel Stroganov, a celebrity in turn-of-the-century St. Petersburg,
was a noted gourmet as well as a friend of Alexander III. He is frequently
credited with creating Beef Stroganoff or having a chef who did so, but in
fact a recipe by that name appears in a cookbook published in 1871, well
ahead of the heyday of the genial count. In all probability the dish had
been in the family for some years and came to more general notice throughout
Pavel's love of entertaining."
--Rare Bits: Unusual Origins of Popular Recipes, Patricia Bunning Stevens
[Ohio University Press:Athens] 1998 (p.103).

"jmcquown" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>> "James Silverton" schrieb :
>> <snip>
>>> My understanding of the original Beef Stroganoff recipe was that it
>>> used high quality lean beef cooked only until rare before the sour
>>> cream was added. There would not be much more cooking as the sour
>>> cream warmed up.
>> Yes. The recipe was invented to use up beef-filet tips which were too
>> small for steaks.
>>
>
>
> Yep. My mother's recipe always called for beef tenderloin, thinly sliced. The
> sour cream is stirred in at the very end only until just heated through. Our
> friend "telephone" doesn't know how to cook this dish.
>
It looked like a abortive attempt at gulasch while on LSD ;-)

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

James Silverton > wrote:

> My understanding of the original Beef Stroganoff recipe was that it used
> high quality lean beef cooked only until rare before the sour cream was
> added. There would not be much more cooking as the sour cream warmed up.

Yes, but it was a tiny bit more complicated and "lean" wasn't specified.
Here is what appears to be the earliest recorded recipe for beef named
after Count Stroganoff. It first appeared in the first, 1861, edition
of E.I. Molokhovets' famous cookbook, _A Gift to Young Housewives_. I
translated it almost literally from the reprint of the original. Notice
that the ingredient list lacks stock and onions called for in the
instructions. Also, the recipe obviously assumes an old-style
wood-fired stove.

Beef à la Stroganov with mustard
Govyadina po-stroganovski s gorchitsej

Ingredients:
3 pounds tender beef
salt
10-15 "English pepper(corns)" (allspice berries)
1/4 pound butter
1 (table)spoon flour
2 tablespoons sour cream
1 teaspoon Sarepta mustard (*)
1 (table)spoon tomato (paste)

Two hours before the start of cooking, take a tender piece of beef, cut
it, raw, into small squares, sprinkle with salt and some pepper
(allspice). Before dinner, take half of 1/8 lb (i.e. 1/16 lb) butter
and 1 (table)spoon flour, mix, fry lightly, dilute with 2 glasses stock,
cook through, add 1 teaspoon of prepared Sarepta mustard, a little
pepper, mix, cook through, strain. Before serving, add 2 tablespoons of
the freshest sour cream and a spoon of the already fried tomato (paste).
Over high heat, fry the beef with butter and onions, place it in the
sauce, cover tightly, put for 1/4 hour at the edge of the stove, cook
through, serve.

(*) Hot mustard made with brown mustard seeds (Brassica juncea Czern.),
named after the town of Sarepta. [VS]

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
> James Silverton > wrote:
>
>> My understanding of the original Beef Stroganoff recipe was that it used
>> high quality lean beef cooked only until rare before the sour cream was
>> added. There would not be much more cooking as the sour cream warmed up.
>
> Yes, but it was a tiny bit more complicated and "lean" wasn't specified.
> Here is what appears to be the earliest recorded recipe for beef named
> after Count Stroganoff. It first appeared in the first, 1861, edition
> of E.I. Molokhovets' famous cookbook, _A Gift to Young Housewives_. I
> translated it almost literally from the reprint of the original. Notice
> that the ingredient list lacks stock and onions called for in the
> instructions. Also, the recipe obviously assumes an old-style
> wood-fired stove.
>
> Beef à la Stroganov with mustard
> Govyadina po-stroganovski s gorchitsej
>
> Ingredients:
> 3 pounds tender beef
> salt
> 10-15 "English pepper(corns)" (allspice berries)
> 1/4 pound butter
> 1 (table)spoon flour
> 2 tablespoons sour cream
> 1 teaspoon Sarepta mustard (*)
> 1 (table)spoon tomato (paste)
>
> Two hours before the start of cooking, take a tender piece of beef, cut
> it, raw, into small squares, sprinkle with salt and some pepper
> (allspice). Before dinner, take half of 1/8 lb (i.e. 1/16 lb) butter
> and 1 (table)spoon flour, mix, fry lightly, dilute with 2 glasses stock,
> cook through, add 1 teaspoon of prepared Sarepta mustard, a little
> pepper, mix, cook through, strain. Before serving, add 2 tablespoons of
> the freshest sour cream and a spoon of the already fried tomato (paste).
> Over high heat, fry the beef with butter and onions, place it in the
> sauce, cover tightly, put for 1/4 hour at the edge of the stove, cook
> through, serve.
>
> (*) Hot mustard made with brown mustard seeds (Brassica juncea Czern.),
> named after the town of Sarepta. [VS]
>
> Victor
>
Oh! I'll have to compare this with what is probably in one of my
new cookbooks, a partial translation of this work. (Not in front
of me, so I am not sure which ed. it is.)

What might be a comparable mustard? Too bad I was just in a
Russian grocery store yesterday--although there was NO English on
the labels and I might need to brush up on my Cyrillic alphabet.
--
Jean B.

Jean B. > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
> >
> > (*) Hot mustard made with brown mustard seeds (Brassica juncea Czern.),
> > named after the town of Sarepta. [VS]
>
> What might be a comparable mustard? Too bad I was just in a
> Russian grocery store yesterday--although there was NO English on
> the labels and I might need to brush up on my Cyrillic alphabet.

It is not really any kind of special mustard and is readily available,
at least in the form of seeds or flour. It originated in China, reached
India and from there all the other countries. Sarepta was a town on the
Volga founded by German settlers invited by Catherine the Great.
The town is now a part of greater Volgograd (formerly Tsaritsyn and
Stalingrad). The settlers started growing brown mustard and producing
it on an industrial scale. Brown mustard is both hot and very aromatic,
in contrast to yellow mustard which is devoid of any aroma and requires
various additives to be at all acceptable. Brown mustard can be
prepared with just hot water and perhaps a bit of sugar. Molokhovets
includes three recipes of Sarepta mustard; here is a translation:

1. Take the very best Sarepta mustard, put in a bit of fine sugar, pour
in boling water and stir until smooth.

2. Another method: 1 glass (about 1 cup) of the very best Sarepta
mustard, thorougly mix with two spoons sugar, pour in boiling water and
stir until smooth, pour in two spoons Provençal (i.e. olive) oil and two
spoons vinegar.

3. Third method: For 3 spoons Sarepta powder put in 2 spoons Provençal
(i.e. olive) oil, a cup of cold water, a bit of salt, bring to boil,
serve.

Here are some sources of brown mustard, mainly in the form of seeds:

<http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/754523/CategoryID/1000/SubCatID/2525/file.htm>

<http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/668788/CategoryID/1500/SubCatID/5/file.htm>

<http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/organic_brown_mustard.htm>

<http://www.frontiercoop.com/products.php?ct=spicesaz&cn=Mustard+Seed%2C+Brown>
(also available through Amazon)

<http://www.americanspice.com/catalog/21175/Black_Mustard_Seed_Whole.html?DEPT=8&show_size=1&O RIG=20&PAGE=AK&_ssess_=eb94893c7cf380d614951fb91d9 9b438>
(the actual container says "brown mustard seed")

<http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Brown-Mustard-Seeds-Sprouting/dp/B001E6CFAW/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1225805954&sr=1-13>

<http://russianfoods.com/showroom/product012EC/vendor003E7/default.asp>
(may or may not be the real thing)

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
> Jean B. > wrote:
>
>> Victor Sack wrote:
>>> (*) Hot mustard made with brown mustard seeds (Brassica juncea Czern.),
>>> named after the town of Sarepta. [VS]
>> What might be a comparable mustard? Too bad I was just in a
>> Russian grocery store yesterday--although there was NO English on
>> the labels and I might need to brush up on my Cyrillic alphabet.
>
> It is not really any kind of special mustard and is readily available,
> at least in the form of seeds or flour. It originated in China, reached
> India and from there all the other countries. Sarepta was a town on the
> Volga founded by German settlers invited by Catherine the Great.
> The town is now a part of greater Volgograd (formerly Tsaritsyn and
> Stalingrad). The settlers started growing brown mustard and producing
> it on an industrial scale. Brown mustard is both hot and very aromatic,
> in contrast to yellow mustard which is devoid of any aroma and requires
> various additives to be at all acceptable. Brown mustard can be
> prepared with just hot water and perhaps a bit of sugar. Molokhovets
> includes three recipes of Sarepta mustard; here is a translation:
>
> 1. Take the very best Sarepta mustard, put in a bit of fine sugar, pour
> in boling water and stir until smooth.
>
> 2. Another method: 1 glass (about 1 cup) of the very best Sarepta
> mustard, thorougly mix with two spoons sugar, pour in boiling water and
> stir until smooth, pour in two spoons Provençal (i.e. olive) oil and two
> spoons vinegar.
>
> 3. Third method: For 3 spoons Sarepta powder put in 2 spoons Provençal
> (i.e. olive) oil, a cup of cold water, a bit of salt, bring to boil,
> serve.
>
> Here are some sources of brown mustard, mainly in the form of seeds:
>
> <http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/754523/CategoryID/1000/SubCatID/2525/file.htm>
>
> <http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/668788/CategoryID/1500/SubCatID/5/file.htm>
>
> <http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/organic_brown_mustard.htm>
>
> <http://www.frontiercoop.com/products.php?ct=spicesaz&cn=Mustard+Seed%2C+Brown>
> (also available through Amazon)
>
> <http://www.americanspice.com/catalog/21175/Black_Mustard_Seed_Whole.html?DEPT=8&show_size=1&O RIG=20&PAGE=AK&_ssess_=eb94893c7cf380d614951fb91d9 9b438>
> (the actual container says "brown mustard seed")
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Brown-Mustard-Seeds-Sprouting/dp/B001E6CFAW/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1225805954&sr=1-13>
>
> <http://russianfoods.com/showroom/product012EC/vendor003E7/default.asp>
> (may or may not be the real thing)
>
> Victor

Merci. Or should I say "spasibo"?

Would you like me to type up the translator's comments on the
Stroganoff/Stroganov?

--
Jean B.

Jean B. > wrote:

> Would you like me to type up the translator's comments on the
> Stroganoff/Stroganov?

Sure!

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
> Jean B. > wrote:
>
>> Would you like me to type up the translator's comments on the
>> Stroganoff/Stroganov?
>
> Sure!
>
> Victor

Slight lag. I've been busy but will get to it this weekend, I think.

--
Jean B.

Jean B. > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
> > Jean B. > wrote:
> >
> >> Would you like me to type up the translator's comments on the
> >> Stroganoff/Stroganov?
> >
> > Sure!
>
> Slight lag. I've been busy but will get to it this weekend, I think.

No need to hurry.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
> Jean B. > wrote:
>
>> Victor Sack wrote:
>>> Jean B. > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would you like me to type up the translator's comments on the
>>>> Stroganoff/Stroganov?
>>> Sure!
>> Slight lag. I've been busy but will get to it this weekend, I think.
>
> No need to hurry.
>
> Victor

Yes, well, I do need to remember.

Okay, the book in question is "Classic Russian Cooking: Elena
Molokhovets' _A Gift to Young Housewives_", translated and
introduced by Joyce Toomre. Bloomington, Indiana: University of
Indiana Press 1998. This book contains about a quarter (alas) of
the recipes in the 20th edition, which was published i 635 in that
edition. Toomre translates it as follows:

"Two hours before serving, cut a tender piece of raw beef into
small cubes and sprinkle with salt and some allspice. Before
dinner, mix together 1/16 lb (polos'mushka) butter and 1 spoon
flour, fry lightly, and dilute with 2 glasses bouillon, 1 tsp
prepared Sareptskaja mustard, and a little pepper. Mix, bring to
a boil, and strain. Add 2 tablespoons very fresh sour cream
before serving. Then fry the beef in butter, add it to the sauce,
bring once to a boil, and serve."

Toomre then goes on to say, "Molokhovets' simple recipe did not
endure. Already by 1912, Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva was teaching the
students in her cooking classes to add finely chopped sautéed
onions and tomato paste to the sauce, a practice that still turns
up in modern Soviet and American recipes, with or without the
addition of mushrooms. It is worth noting that
Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva served this dish with potato straws, which
have become the standard modern garnish for Beef Stroganov. (See
Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva, Prakticheskija osnovy kulinarnago
iskusstva, 611, 441; Guba and Lazarev, Kulinarija, 117; and
Volokh, Art of Russian Cuisine, 266-268)"

Probably nothing you don't already know, but I found it interesting.

--
Jean B.

Jean B. > wrote:

> Okay, the book in question is "Classic Russian Cooking: Elena
> Molokhovets' _A Gift to Young Housewives_", translated and
> introduced by Joyce Toomre. Bloomington, Indiana: University of
> Indiana Press 1998. This book contains about a quarter (alas) of
> the recipes in the 20th edition, which was published i 635 in that
> edition. Toomre translates it as follows:
>
> "Two hours before serving, cut a tender piece of raw beef into
> small cubes

In the original, it is definitely "squares", not "cubes", but who knows
what the author really meant? William Pokhlyobkin, who dated the recipe
to the end of 19th century (which is why I no longer regard his version
as original), called for "rectangular prisms", which seems to be closer
to "squares" than to "cubes".

> and sprinkle with salt and some allspice. Before
> dinner, mix together 1/16 lb (polos'mushka)

This is a somewhat unfortunate transliteration - actually, probably a
mere misprint - but the translator obviously knows what she is talking
about, as it indeed adds up to 1/16th lb. The transliteration should be
"pol os'mushki" (accusative case), "pol" meaning "half" and "os'mushka"
meaning "1/8th".

> butter and 1 spoon
> flour, fry lightly, and dilute with 2 glasses bouillon,

I wonder if she defines what "glass" is.

> 1 tsp
> prepared Sareptskaja mustard, and a little pepper.

The "pepper" in question should be allspice. No other "pepper" is
mentioned in the recipe.

> Mix, bring to
> a boil, and strain. Add 2 tablespoons very fresh sour cream
> before serving. Then fry the beef in butter, add it to the sauce,
> bring once to a boil, and serve."

All in all, a not a very impressive effort, I must say, though I do not
know why, as the translator appears capable. I wonder why she does not
mention tomato paste which has certainly been there from the very
beginning. Her description of the sauce making is not quite
satisfactory, either. Compare her translation with the almost literate
one I posted in my initial post in the thread (but I, too, should have
specified allspice in all "pepper" cases...).

> Toomre then goes on to say, "Molokhovets' simple recipe did not
> endure. Already by 1912, Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva was teaching the
> students in her cooking classes to add finely chopped sautéed
> onions and tomato paste to the sauce,

Tomato paste has always been there (see above). Onions should have been
there according to Pohlyobkin (I posted his recipe before).

> a practice that still turns
> up in modern Soviet and American recipes, with or without the
> addition of mushrooms. It is worth noting that
> Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva served this dish with potato straws, which
> have become the standard modern garnish for Beef Stroganov. (See
> Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva, Prakticheskija osnovy kulinarnago
> iskusstva, 611, 441;

Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva's book is altogether more interesting from the
actual culinary (as distinct from historical) viewpoint, especially as
Molokhovets' book was so very eclectic, not specifically Russian.

> Guba and Lazarev, Kulinarija, 117;

I have this book. It is one written by professionals for professionals.
Like Pohlyobkin's book, it effectively calls for meat to be cut into
rectangular prisms ("Cut into wide strips, meat is pounded to 5-8 mm
thickness, and cut into prisms of 5-7 g weight, with a length of 3-4 cm
and thickness of 0.5-0.8 cm." -- yes, the recipe in the book *is* that
badly written). The recipe in the book calls for deep-fried potatoes
(i.e. chips/French-fried), potato croquettes, or for boiled and then
fried potatoes.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
> Jean B. > wrote:
>
>> Okay, the book in question is "Classic Russian Cooking: Elena
>> Molokhovets' _A Gift to Young Housewives_", translated and
>> introduced by Joyce Toomre. Bloomington, Indiana: University of
>> Indiana Press 1998. This book contains about a quarter (alas) of
>> the recipes in the 20th edition, which was published i 635 in that
>> edition. Toomre translates it as follows:
>>
>> "Two hours before serving, cut a tender piece of raw beef into
>> small cubes
>
> In the original, it is definitely "squares", not "cubes", but who knows
> what the author really meant? William Pokhlyobkin, who dated the recipe
> to the end of 19th century (which is why I no longer regard his version
> as original), called for "rectangular prisms", which seems to be closer
> to "squares" than to "cubes".
>
>> and sprinkle with salt and some allspice. Before
>> dinner, mix together 1/16 lb (polos'mushka)
>
> This is a somewhat unfortunate transliteration - actually, probably a
> mere misprint - but the translator obviously knows what she is talking
> about, as it indeed adds up to 1/16th lb. The transliteration should be
> "pol os'mushki" (accusative case), "pol" meaning "half" and "os'mushka"
> meaning "1/8th".
>
>> butter and 1 spoon
>> flour, fry lightly, and dilute with 2 glasses bouillon,
>
> I wonder if she defines what "glass" is.
>
>> 1 tsp
>> prepared Sareptskaja mustard, and a little pepper.
>
> The "pepper" in question should be allspice. No other "pepper" is
> mentioned in the recipe.
>
>> Mix, bring to
>> a boil, and strain. Add 2 tablespoons very fresh sour cream
>> before serving. Then fry the beef in butter, add it to the sauce,
>> bring once to a boil, and serve."
>
> All in all, a not a very impressive effort, I must say, though I do not
> know why, as the translator appears capable. I wonder why she does not
> mention tomato paste which has certainly been there from the very
> beginning. Her description of the sauce making is not quite
> satisfactory, either. Compare her translation with the almost literate
> one I posted in my initial post in the thread (but I, too, should have
> specified allspice in all "pepper" cases...).
>
>> Toomre then goes on to say, "Molokhovets' simple recipe did not
>> endure. Already by 1912, Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva was teaching the
>> students in her cooking classes to add finely chopped sautéed
>> onions and tomato paste to the sauce,
>
> Tomato paste has always been there (see above). Onions should have been
> there according to Pohlyobkin (I posted his recipe before).
>
>> a practice that still turns
>> up in modern Soviet and American recipes, with or without the
>> addition of mushrooms. It is worth noting that
>> Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva served this dish with potato straws, which
>> have become the standard modern garnish for Beef Stroganov. (See
>> Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva, Prakticheskija osnovy kulinarnago
>> iskusstva, 611, 441;
>
> Aleksandrova-Ignat'eva's book is altogether more interesting from the
> actual culinary (as distinct from historical) viewpoint, especially as
> Molokhovets' book was so very eclectic, not specifically Russian.
>
>> Guba and Lazarev, Kulinarija, 117;
>
> I have this book. It is one written by professionals for professionals.
> Like Pohlyobkin's book, it effectively calls for meat to be cut into
> rectangular prisms ("Cut into wide strips, meat is pounded to 5-8 mm
> thickness, and cut into prisms of 5-7 g weight, with a length of 3-4 cm
> and thickness of 0.5-0.8 cm." -- yes, the recipe in the book *is* that
> badly written). The recipe in the book calls for deep-fried potatoes
> (i.e. chips/French-fried), potato croquettes, or for boiled and then
> fried potatoes.
>
> Victor

Maybe I should keep your comments in mind when I turn to this book.

Interestingly, she did mention allspice elsewhere, because I found
myself thinking of your translation, with the surprising (to me)
allspice in it.

--
Jean B.