I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
choices?

"Robert of St Louis" > wrote in message
...
>I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
> damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
> choices?

Hi Robert,

That is because you are reading books about the wrong kind of diabetes, and
stuff that is recommended by the ADA (American Diabetes Association).
Follow their guidelines only if you want to have complications, lose a leg,
failed kidneys....etc.

One kind of diabetes is where the body no longer makes its own insulin
anymore. That is called Type 1 .... also Juvenile diabetes. The other
kind of diabetes, which you, and I, and so many others who are diagnosed
later on in life get is type 2. Type two is a complicated bunch of
symptoms that are characterized sometimes as Syndrome X. High cholesterol,
high blood pressure and high blood glucose.

With type two diabetes there are problems where the person has insulin
production, and has glucose in their blood, but for some reason as yet
unknown, they don't recognize one another. Some medications improve the
ability of the cells to be able to use the sugars in ones blood and some
stimulate the production of additional insulin.

All of this is a vast oversimplification of a complex disease. You can
manage it, but not cure it. If one chooses to ignore it, complications
will surely follow.

Some diabetics can have some bread products. You can only know for sure by
testing frequently. The only way to control your blood glucose is to count
carbohydrates and know what allowance is OK for you. Some try to stay
under 30 grams. Some can handle 100 per day. Your meter will be your
guide to see what will send your blood glucose soaring, and what will not.

There are lots of good books and lots of good advice out there. The best
free advice will come to you from alt.support.diabetes. Here we mainly
discuss recipes and food issues.

This is the BEST book to get that I know of..... THE FIRST YEAR TYPE 2
DIABETES by
Gretchen Becker. It contains lots of helpful information and is a source
you can return to again and again. You'll get lots more info from this
book than from most doctors who just don't have the time or patience to
explain the condition. Ms Becker has diabetes and has been thru all the
feelings that the diagosis brings to you. Plus, she is very proactive
about knowing all she can and taking charge of her life and condition.

--

Evelyn

The fool thinks he has won a battle when he bullies with harsh speech, but
knowing how to be forbearing alone makes one victorious.
Samyutta Nikaya I, 163

"Robert of St Louis" > wrote in message
...
>I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
> damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
> choices?

Bagels are tricky. Something about the way they are processed usually makes
for high blood sugar. As for the bread, you may or may not be able to.
Only way to know is to eat it and test at two hours later.

Julie Bove > wrote:

: "Robert of St Louis" > wrote in message
: ...
: >I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
: > damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
: > choices?

: Bagels are tricky. Something about the way they are processed usually makes
: for high blood sugar. As for the bread, you may or may not be able to.
: Only way to know is to eat it and test at two hours later.

Most of the bagels sold today at bagel stores are so large that they are
the equivalent of about 4 slices of bread-even whole wheat one. that is
about 60 grams of carb, more than most of us can eat in one meal, and is
often the total we eat for the ewhole day.

Wendy

Robert of St Louis wrote:
> I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
> damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
> choices?

Robert,

Read the labels! Carbohydrates should be treated the same until you are
familiar enough with how your body processes certain ones.

Many people will subtract the amount of fiber grams from the
carbohydrate grams for "net carbs" but the generally recommended formula
is to only subtract 5 grams or more of fiber per serving for net carbs.

Whole wheat is still a carb. If you read the label on the bread or
bagels the carbohydrate count is not much different between regular and
"whole wheat" per serving.

If you ask me, this entire "whole grain" business is just more marketing
BS because someone said refined carbs weren't good for people. While
non-diabetics might benefit from the bit of extra fiber, it really
doesn't make much difference to the average type 2 diabetic.

You need to use your meter to determine how many grams of carbohydrates
your medication will permit your body to tolerate. Your medical people
should have set you up with a series of classes for nutrition and and
medical management. You need to learn to read labels. You need to learn
to use your meter effectively and that means a finger stick before
eating to see what your glucose level is. You will need to keep a record
of the amount (and type) of carbohydrates you are going to eat. After
meals, take a reading one hour, two hours and three hours. This diary
will help you learn which types of carbs you tolerate best and how much
of them you can tolerate.

Carbohydrates are not just starches and sugars. Dairy products like
milk, cottage cheese, yogurt and ice cream are carbohydrates. If you are
going to have a bowl of dry cereal, you also have to count the carbs in
the milk. Fruits are carbohydrates. A small apple is 15g. A banana is
30g. Some veggies like tomato and carrots can add up. Other veggies like
corn and winter squashes are counted more like a starch than a veggie.

Too many physicians take a blood test, see elevated glucose and
prescribe a bottle of pills. That is a horrible way to treat a diabetic,
but, unfortunately, that's what happens.

Until you learn to eat what is proper for your body, your doctor will
probably continue to up your meds. The oral medications have their own
set of side effects so you want to keep the dosage as low as possible.
This might mean that you cut out all starches and only get your
carbohydrates from small servings of fruit and vegetables.

Starch is your enemy. Sugar and starch are identical to your body. One
slice of supermarket white bread and a tablespoon of sugar are exactly
the same to your body. Do not fall for the "sugar-free" trap. Things
like "sugar-free" pudding are filled with carbohydrates. First from the
primary ingredient, corn starch and next from the milk. Taking out the
sugar and putting in artificial sweetener doesn't make it any healthier
for a diabetic.

Don't let anyone scare you away from fat, either. Try to eat good fats,
like olive oil, nuts and avocado instead of saturated fats. Many
fat-free foods are higher in carbohydrates than the full-fat versions or
the "lite" versions.

The thing that is very, very important for you to learn is portion
control. Get a little paperback carbohydrate counting book (WalMart
carries them) and a small digital food scale. Get a set of dry measuring
cups and a measuring cup for liquids. This will teach you what a serving
of carbs (15g) will look like. After a short while you will be able to
eye-ball your servings.

The other suggestions made here are valuable. Diabetes is not the kind
of condition that you just take a pill for. Controlling it means a
change in your entire life-style.

If I have scared you, then I've done a good job. Diabetes is a scary
diagnosis. If you don't make the necessary changes in your life to
control it, the consequences are very, very scary indeed.

I'll recap for you:

1) get set up with a diabetes education course.

2) Make a chart with a food diary and lay in a big supply of test
strips. (I know that they are expensive, but how much is your life and
your health worth?)

3) Learn to read labels and watch your carbohydrate intake like a hawk.
They did tell you that meter readings of between 90 - 110 are what you
should be setting your goals for?

4) Get a food scale, a carb-counter book and measuring cups.

5) Don't expect the people here or at any other newsgroup to create
miracles for you. It's your condition and you have to work really hard
to control it.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

W. Baker wrote:
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
> : "Robert of St Louis" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : >I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
> : > damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
> : > choices?
>
> : Bagels are tricky. Something about the way they are processed usually makes
> : for high blood sugar. As for the bread, you may or may not be able to.
> : Only way to know is to eat it and test at two hours later.
>
> Most of the bagels sold today at bagel stores are so large that they are
> the equivalent of about 4 slices of bread-even whole wheat one. that is
> about 60 grams of carb, more than most of us can eat in one meal, and is
> often the total we eat for the ewhole day.
>
> Wendy

gotta agree, Wendy

my bread is 12 grams of carbs and a bagel is 60 grams

12 X 5 = 60

NO WAY can i have 5 slices of bread in one sitting, as a bagel would be

oh......... lox, onion, cream cheese
very very thinly slice a couple of bits of onions (the middle part will
have to be cut in 1/2)
place slices of lox, overlapping them, into a 'line' on a plate
place blobs of cream cheese on lox, using as much cream cheese as you like
place the THIN layers of onion on top........ now, roll up the lot,
making sure the lox is the outside
eat and enjoy! (i just did)

"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> W. Baker wrote:
>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>
>> : "Robert of St Louis" > wrote in message :
>> ...
>> : >I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
>> : > damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
>> : > choices?
>>
>> : Bagels are tricky. Something about the way they are processed usually
>> makes : for high blood sugar. As for the bread, you may or may not be
>> able to. : Only way to know is to eat it and test at two hours later.
>> Most of the bagels sold today at bagel stores are so large that they are
>> the equivalent of about 4 slices of bread-even whole wheat one. that is
>> about 60 grams of carb, more than most of us can eat in one meal, and is
>> often the total we eat for the ewhole day. Wendy
>
> gotta agree, Wendy
>
> my bread is 12 grams of carbs and a bagel is 60 grams
>
> 12 X 5 = 60
>
> NO WAY can i have 5 slices of bread in one sitting, as a bagel would be
>
> oh......... lox, onion, cream cheese
> very very thinly slice a couple of bits of onions (the middle part will
> have to be cut in 1/2)
> place slices of lox, overlapping them, into a 'line' on a plate
> place blobs of cream cheese on lox, using as much cream cheese as you like
> place the THIN layers of onion on top........ now, roll up the lot, making
> sure the lox is the outside
> eat and enjoy! (i just did)



Yummy..... a great favorite of mine!

--

Evelyn

The fool thinks he has won a battle when he bullies with harsh speech, but
knowing how to be forbearing alone makes one victorious.
Samyutta Nikaya I, 163

Tiger Lily > wrote:
: W. Baker wrote:
: > Julie Bove > wrote:
: >
: > : "Robert of St Louis" > wrote in message
: > : ...
: > : >I keep reading that I can have whole wheat bread and bagels. I hear so
: > : > damned much about bread exchanges. But what if they are these 2 good
: > : > choices?
: >
: > : Bagels are tricky. Something about the way they are processed usually makes
: > : for high blood sugar. As for the bread, you may or may not be able to.
: > : Only way to know is to eat it and test at two hours later.
: >
: > Most of the bagels sold today at bagel stores are so large that they are
: > the equivalent of about 4 slices of bread-even whole wheat one. that is
: > about 60 grams of carb, more than most of us can eat in one meal, and is
: > often the total we eat for the ewhole day.
: >
: > Wendy

: gotta agree, Wendy

: my bread is 12 grams of carbs and a bagel is 60 grams

: 12 X 5 = 60

: NO WAY can i have 5 slices of bread in one sitting, as a bagel would be

: oh......... lox, onion, cream cheese
: very very thinly slice a couple of bits of onions (the middle part will
: have to be cut in 1/2)
: place slices of lox, overlapping them, into a 'line' on a plate
: place blobs of cream cheese on lox, using as much cream cheese as you like
: place the THIN layers of onion on top........ now, roll up the lot,
: making sure the lox is the outside
: eat and enjoy! (i just did)

I eat lox and cream cheese on Wasa or Ryevita crackers and it is delish.

Wendy