Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Old 07-09-2009, 01:41 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Bobby Flay and barbeque

I was channel surfing the other day when Flay was having a
throwdown with a fellow from Raleigh NC. I never saw how it
ended, but the NC guy sure sounded like he knew his business. We
lived there for years, and since I'd not heard of him or his
place, it must have opened after we departed.

Anyway, the one portion of the show I saw that bothered me was
Bobby's depiction of NC with a line through it separating it into
Eastern style and Lexington style. When he described the Eastern
style, it looked like they were brushing the vinegar based mop
onto ribs. That sure isn't how I did them and not how I'm used to
seeing them. Also, when he described the Western style (called
Lexington style), he spoke of a sweet sauce, aka KC style. Again
that isn't the way I recollect Lexington style to be.

The times I have Lexington style barbecue, I didn't enjoy it. The
ribs I had that were supposed to be so good were essentially ribs
that were cut up individually or in small groups and literally
cooked in a pot with a tomato soup-like sauce. Jeez- if I'd
served that to my family I'd have been slapped into a cheap
nursing home before I was even retired.

Can someone "in the know" please comment about 1) do you put the
spicy vinegar on ribs? and 2) what is Lexington style barbecue? I
have my own opinions, but want to hear from others.

--
Nonny

Our nation should be more like Illinois
and limit all politicians to just TWO terms:
One in office and the second in prison.



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Old 07-09-2009, 02:12 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Bobby Flay and barbeque

On Sep 6, 8:41*pm, "Nonny" wrote:
I was channel surfing the other day when Flay was having a
throwdown with a fellow from Raleigh NC. *I never saw how it
ended, but the NC guy sure sounded like he knew his business. *We
lived there *for years, and since I'd not heard of him or his
place, it must have opened after we departed.

Anyway, the one portion of the show I saw that bothered me was
Bobby's depiction of NC with a line through it separating it into
Eastern style and Lexington style. *When he described the Eastern
style, it looked like they were brushing the vinegar based mop
onto ribs. *That sure isn't how I did them and not how I'm used to
seeing them. *Also, when he described the Western style (called
Lexington style), he spoke of a sweet sauce, aka KC style. *Again
that isn't the way I recollect Lexington style to be.

The times I have Lexington style barbecue, I didn't enjoy it. *The
ribs I had that were supposed to be so good were essentially ribs
that were cut up individually or in small groups and literally
cooked in a pot with a tomato soup-like sauce. *Jeez- if I'd
served that to my family I'd have been slapped into a cheap
nursing home before I was even retired.

Can someone "in the know" please comment about 1) do you put the
spicy vinegar on ribs? and 2) what is Lexington style barbecue? *I
have my own opinions, but want to hear from others.

--
Nonny

Our nation should be more like Illinois
and limit all politicians to just TWO terms:
One in office and the second in prison.


Hey Nonny, go to cooking.comforums and to the BBq and outdoor cooking
section. There was a long post about the diff bbq's and the
differences in them. It was very interesting to us and quite
informative. Nowhere did I read about boiling ribs, but it did discuss
the differences in NC BBq.
Nan in DE
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:47 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Bobby Flay and barbeque

Nanzi wrote:

Hey Nonny, go to cooking.comforums and to the BBq and outdoor cooking
section. There was a long post about the diff bbq's and the
differences in them. It was very interesting to us and quite
informative. Nowhere did I read about boiling ribs, but it did discuss
the differences in NC BBq.


Here's a sight that I've had bookmarked for a while that goes into some
stuff related directly to NC bbq.
http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/lex.htm

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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Old 07-09-2009, 06:18 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Bobby Flay and barbeque


"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Nanzi wrote:

Hey Nonny, go to cooking.comforums and to the BBq and outdoor
cooking
section. There was a long post about the diff bbq's and the
differences in them. It was very interesting to us and quite
informative. Nowhere did I read about boiling ribs, but it did
discuss
the differences in NC BBq.


Here's a sight that I've had bookmarked for a while that goes
into some stuff related directly to NC bbq.
http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/lex.htm

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven
before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


Thanks to both for the replies. Dave Lineback's probably the top
source for NC BBQ, and I remember well when he was building Wilbur
1.0, getting his cast iron doors cast etc. Back then, I had my
own laid up pit and did 'Q over preburn as well. What I was
attempting to get at in my post last night was whether Bobby Flay
was grossly wrong when he 1) talked about basting ribs with spicy
vinegar in East NC, and whether 2) your interpretation of classic
Western NC (Lexington) style typically included a sweet sauce,
like we had in MO. I disagreed with Bobby Flay, but wondered if
others did as well.

Looking over the recipes Dave has on his site shows that yes,
there are 1-2 that might have a sweeter flavor than most, but the
majority are as I recall. Personally, I've never used a spicy
vinegar before or during cooking ribs; they get a dry rub, get
slow smoked and the people then decide what to put on them. When
we had a group of AF guys here last fall, I put out a huge stack
of ribs and had 3-4 sauces for them to choose between. Since I
personally do not like the mustard-type sauces, my selection
included KC Masterpiece, Hunts and a couple of my own design- one
with honey and the other molasses.

IMHO, the vinegar sauce is a finishing sauce to put on fried
gizzards, livers, occasionally chicken and always on pulled pork.

As for my comment about the Lexington style ribs, I was being a
bit sarcastic, I admit. Looking over Dave Lineback's recipes
again, I see only one that would be called mildly sweet. IMHO,
Bobby Flay didn't have a clue about the types of barbecue in NC,
and confused the Lexington version of Western NC with the good
stuff from MO. He never even mentioned the dry ribs from TN that
we so enjoy here at the house, either.

--
Nonny

Our nation should be more like Illinois
and limit all politicians to just TWO terms:
One in office and the second in prison.


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Old 07-09-2009, 07:01 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Bobby Flay and barbeque

Nonny wrote:

..... What I was
attempting to get at in my post last night was whether Bobby Flay
was grossly wrong when he 1) talked about basting ribs with spicy
vinegar in East NC, and whether 2) your interpretation of classic
Western NC (Lexington) style typically included a sweet sauce,
like we had in MO. I disagreed with Bobby Flay, but wondered if
others did as well.


I have eaten at a couple of Bobby Flay's restaurants and I think he is a
pretty competent chef (yes, Bobby doesn't actually work as a chef in his
places, but many of the recipes and menu selections are his). I also think
that he was wrong about his information regarding NC bbq. I think he got
Memphis-style bbq mixed up with either the western or eastern NC styles.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan




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Old 07-09-2009, 08:57 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Bobby Flay and barbeque

Nonny wrote:
I was channel surfing the other day when Flay was having a throwdown
with a fellow from Raleigh NC. I never saw how it ended, but the NC guy
sure sounded like he knew his business. We lived there for years, and
since I'd not heard of him or his place, it must have opened after we
departed.


snip

Hi Nonney.

I do remember that Bobby Flay show and it was a big to do
here in Raleigh. They suckered Ed Mitchel to think he was on
a cooking show to teach his BBQ skills. Then in walks Bobby
Flay and the challenge was on!

Ed's place has been open for just over a year. It is in
downtown Raleigh. He is trying to bring the BBQ experience
from a red checker plastic table cloth to a white linen
cloth group of customers.

http://www.thepit-raleigh.com/

We have eaten there once and the flavors were spot on. The
usual customer may not notice but when you walk in the front
door you see the kitchen- filled with hard wood kettles. In
doors! There ain't none of that propane yellow seeping crap
coming out of any of the cookers.

The menu was pricey compared to other BBQ joints but this
was the real deal.

As far as Eastern BBQ vs Lexington. A simple though line is
eastern is vinegar based whilst Lexington has more tomato
based. You positioned the question so that it is not easy to
answer. " Do they pour vinegar right on the ribs? (mop). It
is as diverse as "Do you cook your ribs wet or dry?" Most of
the eastern whole pig cook outs do have a mix of cayenne and
vinegar splashed over the hog, but that is not how they
would cook ribs.

The Lexington Q is slightly different but good also. Again,
it gets back to wet or dry. A lot of the Lexington cooks use
BP on a dry base and finish with a red (tomato) table sauce.
Again, hold ears wide open, look , listen and choose what
you like.

I know that you have not been gone from NC for long and I
believe your memory serves you correct.

AND- Ed Mitchel won the challenge over Bobby Flay!

craigster in Raleigh
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:42 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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On Sep 7, 12:57*pm, Craig Watts
wrote:


AND- Ed Mitchel won the challenge over Bobby Flay!


They ran that program as a double header, on the other one he
challenged an award winning cook to make pulled pork sandwiches.

He lost that one too, but probably mostly for being so unorthadox with
his BBQ sauce as much as anything else.

It was good to see both "real" Qers win for sure.


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Old 08-09-2009, 12:59 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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"Duwop" wrote in message
...
On Sep 7, 12:57 pm, Craig Watts
wrote:


AND- Ed Mitchel won the challenge over Bobby Flay!


They ran that program as a double header, on the other one he
challenged an award winning cook to make pulled pork sandwiches.

He lost that one too, but probably mostly for being so
unorthadox with
his BBQ sauce as much as anything else.

It was good to see both "real" Qers win for sure.



Craig and Duwop, thanks for the information. I have a mild
dislike for the concept of Bobby Flay's Throwdown show, and I find
myself almost always rooting for the little guy. Flay is famous,
has the support of Food Network kitchen and assistants, so to
speak, and winning a Throwdown for him is just an entry in his
logbook. For the people he challenges, on their own turf, serving
their most special dish(es), it means a whole lot more to win. I
support the underdog, usually, and that's why I don't usually
watch it. It's not that I want to see Flay lose; I want to see
the underdog win. grin

It's also good to know that either I was not way off in my
recollection of NC barbecue or that things had changed a bunch
since I was run out of town. grin It sounds like Bobby Flay
misrecollected what he'd read somewhere.

BTW, Craig, is Red, Hot and Blue still in business? Despite being
a chain, their Memphis ribs were OK.

--
Nonny

Our nation should be more like Illinois
and limit all politicians to just TWO terms:
One in office and the second in prison.


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Old 08-09-2009, 01:48 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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snip


BTW, Craig, is Red, Hot and Blue still in business? Despite being a
chain, their Memphis ribs were OK.


I believe they closed their Waverly Place (Cary) location
and moved into the brick building spot across from NC State
where Darrel's used to be. Across from the Cancelers' house
by the Bell Tower. Prime spot but low inspection numbers if
you don't take care of it. Danny's still rules on hard wood
in Ashville Ave by the hospital.

My favorite is still Allen and Son's in Chapel Hill.

I Like Red Hot and Blue's DRY ribs. Delicious.

Craig
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:43 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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"Nonny" wrote in message

Craig and Duwop, thanks for the information. I have a mild dislike for
the concept of Bobby Flay's Throwdown show, and I find myself almost
always rooting for the little guy. Flay is famous, has the support of
Food Network kitchen and assistants, so to speak, and winning a Throwdown
for him is just an entry in his logbook. For the people he challenges, on
their own turf, serving their most special dish(es), it means a whole lot
more to win.


I'm not a big fan, but have watched some episodes. Flay loses quite a bit
it seems, and he is happy to do so, proving the local guy really is tops for
what he does. For the local, win or lose it has to be great publicity.

You can see his score here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwdown!_with_Bobby_Flay




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Old 08-09-2009, 03:57 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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They ran that program as a double header, on the other one he
challenged an award winning cook to make pulled pork sandwiches.

He lost that one too, but probably mostly for being so unorthadox with
his BBQ sauce as much as anything else.

It was good to see both "real" Qers win for sure.



Craig and Duwop, thanks for the information. I have a mild dislike for
the concept of Bobby Flay's Throwdown show, and I find myself almost
always rooting for the little guy. Flay is famous, has the support of
Food Network kitchen and assistants, so to speak, and winning a Throwdown
for him is just an entry in his logbook. For the people he challenges, on
their own turf, serving their most special dish(es), it means a whole lot
more to win. I support the underdog, usually, and that's why I don't
usually watch it. It's not that I want to see Flay lose; I want to see
the underdog win. grin


I always considered Flay the underdog. I was happy (and surprised) to see
that he looses frequently, showing that the game or judging is not seriously
rigged. I almost think he looses on purpose, always going for some
unorthodox twist which might be ok as a variation, but not likely to be the
best.


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Old 08-09-2009, 04:12 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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"Craig Watts" wrote in
message news:B--
I believe they closed their Waverly Place (Cary) location and
moved into the brick building spot across from NC State where
Darrel's used to be.


Darrel's is one of the most stupid moves a corporation could have
made. When Thad Eure had it, the places were jumping and going
strong. Then, Gilbert Robinson bought it. Some cretin in KC
decided that they'd change the menu, put baggy clothes on the
girls, put controls on the barkeeps and take down the eclectic
decorations. Yup: buy a place for its business and then change
it into a politically correct feed box. I don't know if you
recall that they had nachos in the bar area, but one big decision
GR made was to drop them, since people were eating them and not
going to the restaurant and getting menu items.

Back then, the gals in the place were young and wore tight jeans
or shorts. After the GR "experience," they were old and wore
loose Politically Correct slacks or skirts. Drinks were a full
glass and after GR, they were computer measured to the nearest
1/100th of an ounce.

Business dropped off incredibly, and then they scraped the paint
off the window to lighten the "atmosphere." Soon, they lost all
semblance of their ambiance, along with all their patrons. I
recall when the one on Falls of Neuse closed, after a sad attempt
at selling catfish.

We used to love Darrel's, and I wrote GR a long, 3-4 page letter
detailing what they'd done wrong and what they should do. I got
back a nice letter from some Sr. VP saying that they'd just paid
$45k to a consultant to tell them the same thing. By then,
however, it was too late. What a stupid, stupid waste.

--
Nonny

Our nation should be more like Illinois
and limit all politicians to just TWO terms:
One in office and the second in prison.


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Old 08-09-2009, 04:51 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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On 7-Sep-2009, "Dave Bugg" wrote:

Nonny wrote:

..... What I was
attempting to get at in my post last night was whether Bobby Flay
was grossly wrong when he 1) talked about basting ribs with spicy
vinegar in East NC, and whether 2) your interpretation of classic
Western NC (Lexington) style typically included a sweet sauce,
like we had in MO. I disagreed with Bobby Flay, but wondered if
others did as well.


I have eaten at a couple of Bobby Flay's restaurants and I think he is a
pretty competent chef (yes, Bobby doesn't actually work as a chef in his
places, but many of the recipes and menu selections are his). I also
think
that he was wrong about his information regarding NC bbq. I think he got
Memphis-style bbq mixed up with either the western or eastern NC styles.

--
Dave


You have to watch Bobby Flay very carefully. He is very good at creating
controversy about a particulary type of food and thus heightened awareness
of same. In my opinion, his greatest contribution to the world of food is
his
advocacy and illumination of regional cuisines. And I sure as hell wouldn't
challenge Bobby Flay to a throwdown if I had my money on the outcome.

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:23 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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On 7-Sep-2009, Craig Watts wrote:

Nonny wrote:


Hi Nonney.

I do remember that Bobby Flay show and it was a big to do
here in Raleigh. They suckered Ed Mitchel to think he was on
a cooking show to teach his BBQ skills. Then in walks Bobby
Flay and the challenge was on!


.. . .


AND- Ed Mitchel won the challenge over Bobby Flay!

craigster in Raleigh


And Ed got national advertising that he couldn't have bought
with a winning lottery ticket. For the next couple of years, no
BBQ loving tourist traveling through Raleigh will pass up the
chance to find out if Bobby Flay knew what he was talking
about.

And that's not a bad thing. We here all know that a lot of
people around the country don't know beans about BBQ.
Some think that Texans don't know anything about BBQ
despite the fact they have been cooking meat over hot
coals since before the Alamo. Oh yeh, there wasn't much
pork in Texas back then so it couldn't have been BBQ,
huh?

Give a shit that Bobby loses a throwdown more often then
he wins. That's not what he's there for. His job is to put on
a show that people will change channels to watch. He does
that and in the process he illuminates regional cuisines all
over the country in a manner that no amount of commercial
advertising could accomplish. If you have watched many of
his "throwdowns" you will have noted that he has intentionally
lost on many occasions by straying so far from tradition that
he had no chance to win. Buffalo wings in NY comes to mind
and Philly Steak is another. And only Bobby Flay would
have the audacity to mess with "Pink's Hot Dogs". Guaranteed
to lose. But, a bunch of people now know that Pinks sets the
standard.

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:42 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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On 7-Sep-2009, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Nonny" wrote in message

Craig and Duwop, thanks for the information. I have a mild dislike for

the concept of Bobby Flay's Throwdown show, and I find myself almost
always rooting for the little guy. Flay is famous, has the support of
Food Network kitchen and assistants, so to speak, and winning a
Throwdown
for him is just an entry in his logbook. For the people he challenges,
on
their own turf, serving their most special dish(es), it means a whole
lot
more to win.


I'm not a big fan, but have watched some episodes. Flay loses quite a
bit
it seems, and he is happy to do so, proving the local guy really is tops
for
what he does. For the local, win or lose it has to be great publicity.

You can see his score here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwdown!_with_Bobby_Flay


Dang, you got me Ed. I thought I remembered that Bobby lost to
Pinks hot dogs. My bad. He won that one. Can't imagine how.
But I'll bet that Pinks business got a shot in the arm from that show.
--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)


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