Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 03-01-2004, 04:25 PM
Nathan Gutman
 
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Default Help with 100% whole bread

I made bread from stone ground whole wheat flour using the following
recipe in a 1 pound Panasonic bread machine:
1 1/4 c water
2 c flour
2 tbs honey
1 tsp light brown sugar
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 1/2 tsp dry yeast
3 tbs wheat gluten

The bread rose only to about half the size of a regular bread flour
bread. It is edible and tasted good but a bit dense and heavy. I used
the whole wheat cycle.

Is this normal?
What should I change to get it to rise more?
Thanks for any help.
Nathan


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Old 03-01-2004, 05:56 PM
wesley
 
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Default Help with 100% whole bread

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:25:42 -0500, Nathan Gutman wrote:

I made bread from stone ground whole wheat flour using the following
recipe in a 1 pound Panasonic bread machine: 1 1/4 c water
2 c flour
2 tbs honey
1 tsp light brown sugar
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 1/2 tsp dry yeast
3 tbs wheat gluten

The bread rose only to about half the size of a regular bread flour bread.
It is edible and tasted good but a bit dense and heavy. I used the whole
wheat cycle.

Is this normal?
What should I change to get it to rise more? Thanks for any help.
Nathan


Yes, it is normal. 100% whole wheat bread will never rise as much as white
flour or mixed white/whole grain loaves. Basically the bran present in the
whole grain interfers with gluten development. (Minor side note - many
people confuse a high protein flour with high gluten. Not the same. Gluten
is formed by the hydration and kneading action to form the protein
molecules into long gluten chains. If you lack proper hydration, complete
kneading or have something like bran in the dough that interfers with
gluten development, you won't get a high rising dough even with a high
protein flour.)

Some people add extra vital gluten to their dough to help (though
apparently that didn't satisfy your objective.) Others use a mix of
white/whole grain flours - a 50:50 mix still gives a very good rise but
give a good whole-grain taste. Or you can just accept that a 100% whole
grain bread is just going to be different than a white bread.


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Old 03-01-2004, 06:12 PM
Nathan Gutman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with 100% whole bread

Thank you very much for clear explanation. Now I know that this is
normal and won't need to go through any experimentation.
The only thing that I might try is add some more liquid.
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:56:37 -0600, wesley
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:25:42 -0500, Nathan Gutman wrote:

I made bread from stone ground whole wheat flour using the following
recipe in a 1 pound Panasonic bread machine: 1 1/4 c water
2 c flour
2 tbs honey
1 tsp light brown sugar
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 1/2 tsp dry yeast
3 tbs wheat gluten

The bread rose only to about half the size of a regular bread flour bread.
It is edible and tasted good but a bit dense and heavy. I used the whole
wheat cycle.

Is this normal?
What should I change to get it to rise more? Thanks for any help.
Nathan


Yes, it is normal. 100% whole wheat bread will never rise as much as white
flour or mixed white/whole grain loaves. Basically the bran present in the
whole grain interfers with gluten development. (Minor side note - many
people confuse a high protein flour with high gluten. Not the same. Gluten
is formed by the hydration and kneading action to form the protein
molecules into long gluten chains. If you lack proper hydration, complete
kneading or have something like bran in the dough that interfers with
gluten development, you won't get a high rising dough even with a high
protein flour.)

Some people add extra vital gluten to their dough to help (though
apparently that didn't satisfy your objective.) Others use a mix of
white/whole grain flours - a 50:50 mix still gives a very good rise but
give a good whole-grain taste. Or you can just accept that a 100% whole
grain bread is just going to be different than a white bread.


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Old 03-01-2004, 06:12 PM
Kenneth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with 100% whole bread

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:25:42 -0500, Nathan Gutman
wrote:

I made bread from stone ground whole wheat flour using the following
recipe in a 1 pound Panasonic bread machine:
1 1/4 c water
2 c flour
2 tbs honey
1 tsp light brown sugar
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 1/2 tsp dry yeast
3 tbs wheat gluten

The bread rose only to about half the size of a regular bread flour
bread. It is edible and tasted good but a bit dense and heavy. I used
the whole wheat cycle.

Is this normal?
What should I change to get it to rise more?
Thanks for any help.
Nathan


Hi Nathan,

In a word: "Yes."

What you describe seems pretty normal to me. Breads made from whole
wheat (that is, with no added white flour) are typically much more
dense then those made with the addition of white flour.

I have read that the reason is that the bran is rather sharp (mt the
microscopic level) and cuts into the bubbles that would otherwise
contain the gas produced by the yeast.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
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Old 03-01-2004, 11:41 PM
wildeny
 
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Default Help with 100% whole bread

Nathan Gutman wrote in message . ..
Thank you very much for clear explanation. Now I know that this is
normal and won't need to go through any experimentation.
The only thing that I might try is add some more liquid.
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:25:42 -0500, Nathan Gutman wrote:

I made bread from stone ground whole wheat flour using the following
recipe in a 1 pound Panasonic bread machine: 1 1/4 c water
2 c flour


But 1.25 C water vs 2C flour, which is already in the high percentage
to me. 1.25C=300g water. I'm not sure about the weight of your one-cup
flour, but it can't be more than 150g/cup, can it?


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Old 04-01-2004, 02:10 AM
Karen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with 100% whole bread

Nathan Gutman wrote:

Thank you very much for clear explanation. Now I know that this is
normal and won't need to go through any experimentation.
The only thing that I might try is add some more liquid.


I think you already have more than enough. My standard, never fail whole
grain ABM recipe calls for 1 1/2 cups of water to 1 pound (~4 cups) of
flour. That would be 3/4 cup in your 1 pound recipe. Too much water will
cause the bread to collapse back after rising. I also use 2 tablespoons
of oil, which would be 1 in your recipe.

My two-pound recipe:

1 1/2 cups of water
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2 tablespoons oil
1 pound whole grain flour (I use 2 ounces of oats and the rest whole
wheat flour)
2 tablespoons powdered milk
2 tablespoons sweetener (sugar, honey, molasses)
2 tablespoons vital wheat gluten (not gluten flour)
2 teaspoons yeast

With the oats I like to use the timed cycle and have the oats go into
the water first so they can soak.

Karen

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Old 05-01-2004, 01:47 AM
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with 100% whole bread


"wildeny" wrote in message
om...
Nathan Gutman wrote in message

. ..
Thank you very much for clear explanation. Now I know that this is
normal and won't need to go through any experimentation.
The only thing that I might try is add some more liquid.
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:25:42 -0500, Nathan Gutman wrote:

I made bread from stone ground whole wheat flour using the following
recipe in a 1 pound Panasonic bread machine: 1 1/4 c water
2 c flour


But 1.25 C water vs 2C flour, which is already in the high percentage
to me. 1.25C=300g water. I'm not sure about the weight of your one-cup
flour, but it can't be more than 150g/cup, can it?


One cup of AP flour is 120 or 125g/cup depending on who you ask.




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