I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
I've observed:

- the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
higher temperature in the glass;

- the same wines went through cold stabilization before although under
a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);

- the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;

- commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.

Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein haze,
but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
setting.

Thx,

Pp

"pp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
> cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
> resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
> I've observed:
>
> - the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
> higher temperature in the glass;
>
> - the same wines went through cold stabilization before although under
> a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);
>
> - the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;
>
> - commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.
>
> Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein haze,
> but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
> heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
> setting.
>
> Thx,
>
> Pp

Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is not
quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for
several days. More info here
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt15.html
Good luck
Lum

"pp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
> cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
> resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
> I've observed:
>
> - the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
> higher temperature in the glass;
>
> - the same wines went through cold stabilization before although under
> a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);
>
> - the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;
>
> - commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.
>
> Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein haze,
> but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
> heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
> setting.
>
> Thx,
>
> Pp

Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is not
quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for
several days. More info here
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt15.html
Good luck
Lum

I have a similar problem. I have three carbouys of Sauvignon Blanc
from fresh juice. I fermented pretty cold and added lysozyme after
fermentation to arrest MLF. I fined with benonite, kieselsohl and
isinglass and finally with spakalloid. The wine is pretty clear. I
put one carbouy in a cooler at around 28 degree for two weeks. It
appears to have dropped some crystals (although I'm not sure) but is is
really hazy! Probably to hazy to filter.

Is this a lysozyme phenomenon? I don't know if I should cold stabilize
my other carbouys.

Dan

pp wrote:
> I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
> cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
> resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
> I've observed:
>
> - the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
> higher temperature in the glass;
>
> - the same wines went through cold stabilization before although
under
> a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);
>
> - the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;
>
> - commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.
>
> Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein
haze,
> but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
> heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
> setting.
>
> Thx,
>
> Pp

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "pp" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
> > cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
> > resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
> > I've observed:
> >
> > - the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
> > higher temperature in the glass;
> >
> > - the same wines went through cold stabilization before although under
> > a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);
> >
> > - the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;
> >
> > - commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.
> >
> > Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein haze,
> > but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
> > heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
> > setting.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> > Pp
>
> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is not
> quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for
> several days.

The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this "high temp" cold
stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????


More info here
> http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt15.html
> Good luck
> Lum
>
>

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "pp" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
> > cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
> > resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
> > I've observed:
> >
> > - the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
> > higher temperature in the glass;
> >
> > - the same wines went through cold stabilization before although under
> > a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);
> >
> > - the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;
> >
> > - commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.
> >
> > Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein haze,
> > but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
> > heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
> > setting.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> > Pp
>
> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is not
> quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for
> several days.

The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this "high temp" cold
stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????


More info here
> http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt15.html
> Good luck
> Lum
>
>

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lum" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "pp" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > I've recently cranked up my fridge to the max setting to get better
> > > cold stabilization results and - apart from frozen veggies - this
> > > resulted in some of my bottled whites developing a haze. This is what
> > > I've observed:
> > >
> > > - the haze is temporary, it goes away when the wine comes back to
> > > higher temperature in the glass;
> > >
> > > - the same wines went through cold stabilization before although under
> > > a lower fridge setting (set to min cooling);
> > >
> > > - the same wines are clear in the fridge at the min setting;
> > >
> > > - commercial and kit whites are clear under any setting.
> > >
> > > Anybody has an idea what's going on? My first guess was a protein
haze,
> > > but I am under the impression that that one develops when the wine is
> > > heated and not cooled. The fridge temp is between 28-30F at the max
> > > setting.
> > >
> > > Thx,
> > >
> > > Pp
> >
> > Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is
not
> > quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for
> > several days.
>
> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this "high temp"
cold
> stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
>

Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature of about 33
degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps higher than 33 degrees so your
wine shouldn't show very much tartrate crystals when they are chilled for
serving. But, cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.
--
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

>>> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold
>>> stabilization is not quite complete. Commercial wines
>>> are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for several days.

>> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this
>> "high temp" cold stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????

> Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature
> of about 33 degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps
> higher than 33 degrees so your wine shouldn't show very much
> tartrate crystals when they are chilled for serving. But,
> cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.

This is a very important issue for me as I am looking around
for used front door freezer. Due to recent surgeries I can
not use a top loading freezer.

My older son put a 5 gallon carboy outside for me. Here in
Baltimore (pronounced: Ball-a-mer - The City that Slurs) the
temperature was 5F (-15C) and he didn't come home for four
days. I couldn't carry it back in, but I went outside every
day rotated the carboy enough to get circulation. It did
stop the fermentation and I used rotgut vodka in the airlock
so that had no chance of freezing.

Now I am a Mead guy and want to use it to kill off fermentation.
I had an experience with some Paul Masson wines several years.
After a convention, I took several gallons home with me to store
for later organization meetings. It was January in Chicago and
I left them in the trunk of my car from Sunday evening to Tuesday
afternoon. Night temperatures were -10 F. That's called a warm
winter in Chicago. They froze and unthawed they had a significantly
different taste. I am not a Wine guy, but the difference was
obvious. Now 26F = -3.67C. Am I paranoid or is that low enough
to freeze if left there for a week.

Dick

>>> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold
>>> stabilization is not quite complete. Commercial wines
>>> are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for several days.

>> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this
>> "high temp" cold stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????

> Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature
> of about 33 degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps
> higher than 33 degrees so your wine shouldn't show very much
> tartrate crystals when they are chilled for serving. But,
> cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.

This is a very important issue for me as I am looking around
for used front door freezer. Due to recent surgeries I can
not use a top loading freezer.

My older son put a 5 gallon carboy outside for me. Here in
Baltimore (pronounced: Ball-a-mer - The City that Slurs) the
temperature was 5F (-15C) and he didn't come home for four
days. I couldn't carry it back in, but I went outside every
day rotated the carboy enough to get circulation. It did
stop the fermentation and I used rotgut vodka in the airlock
so that had no chance of freezing.

Now I am a Mead guy and want to use it to kill off fermentation.
I had an experience with some Paul Masson wines several years.
After a convention, I took several gallons home with me to store
for later organization meetings. It was January in Chicago and
I left them in the trunk of my car from Sunday evening to Tuesday
afternoon. Night temperatures were -10 F. That's called a warm
winter in Chicago. They froze and unthawed they had a significantly
different taste. I am not a Wine guy, but the difference was
obvious. Now 26F = -3.67C. Am I paranoid or is that low enough
to freeze if left there for a week.

Dick

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
> >>> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold
> >>> stabilization is not quite complete. Commercial wines
> >>> are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for several days.
>
> >> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this
> >> "high temp" cold stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
>
> > Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature
> > of about 33 degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps
> > higher than 33 degrees so your wine shouldn't show very much
> > tartrate crystals when they are chilled for serving. But,
> > cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.
>
> This is a very important issue for me as I am looking around
> for used front door freezer. Due to recent surgeries I can
> not use a top loading freezer.
>
> My older son put a 5 gallon carboy outside for me. Here in
> Baltimore (pronounced: Ball-a-mer - The City that Slurs) the
> temperature was 5F (-15C) and he didn't come home for four
> days. I couldn't carry it back in, but I went outside every
> day rotated the carboy enough to get circulation. It did
> stop the fermentation and I used rotgut vodka in the airlock
> so that had no chance of freezing.
>
> Now I am a Mead guy and want to use it to kill off fermentation.
> I had an experience with some Paul Masson wines several years.
> After a convention, I took several gallons home with me to store
> for later organization meetings. It was January in Chicago and
> I left them in the trunk of my car from Sunday evening to Tuesday
> afternoon. Night temperatures were -10 F. That's called a warm
> winter in Chicago. They froze and unthawed they had a significantly
> different taste. I am not a Wine guy, but the difference was
> obvious. Now 26F = -3.67C. Am I paranoid or is that low enough
> to freeze if left there for a week.
>
> Dick

Dick,
Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C. Cold
stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.
--
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
> >>> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold
> >>> stabilization is not quite complete. Commercial wines
> >>> are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for several days.
>
> >> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this
> >> "high temp" cold stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
>
> > Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature
> > of about 33 degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps
> > higher than 33 degrees so your wine shouldn't show very much
> > tartrate crystals when they are chilled for serving. But,
> > cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.
>
> This is a very important issue for me as I am looking around
> for used front door freezer. Due to recent surgeries I can
> not use a top loading freezer.
>
> My older son put a 5 gallon carboy outside for me. Here in
> Baltimore (pronounced: Ball-a-mer - The City that Slurs) the
> temperature was 5F (-15C) and he didn't come home for four
> days. I couldn't carry it back in, but I went outside every
> day rotated the carboy enough to get circulation. It did
> stop the fermentation and I used rotgut vodka in the airlock
> so that had no chance of freezing.
>
> Now I am a Mead guy and want to use it to kill off fermentation.
> I had an experience with some Paul Masson wines several years.
> After a convention, I took several gallons home with me to store
> for later organization meetings. It was January in Chicago and
> I left them in the trunk of my car from Sunday evening to Tuesday
> afternoon. Night temperatures were -10 F. That's called a warm
> winter in Chicago. They froze and unthawed they had a significantly
> different taste. I am not a Wine guy, but the difference was
> obvious. Now 26F = -3.67C. Am I paranoid or is that low enough
> to freeze if left there for a week.
>
> Dick

Dick,
Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C. Cold
stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.
--
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this "high temp"
> cold
> > stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
> >
>
> Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature of about 33
> degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps higher than 33 degrees so
your
> wine shouldn't show very much tartrate crystals when they are chilled for
> serving. But, cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.

That's why I said unlimited time. I have a fridge that will go to 33*
and it will hold 4 25 litre carboys!





> --
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this "high temp"
> cold
> > stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
> >
>
> Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature of about 33
> degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps higher than 33 degrees so
your
> wine shouldn't show very much tartrate crystals when they are chilled for
> serving. But, cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.

That's why I said unlimited time. I have a fridge that will go to 33*
and it will hold 4 25 litre carboys!





> --
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>

"Lum" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >>> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold
> > >>> stabilization is not quite complete. Commercial wines
> > >>> are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for several days.
> >
> > >> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this
> > >> "high temp" cold stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
> >
> > > Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature
> > > of about 33 degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps
> > > higher than 33 degrees so your wine shouldn't show very much
> > > tartrate crystals when they are chilled for serving. But,
> > > cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.
> >
> > This is a very important issue for me as I am looking around
> > for used front door freezer. Due to recent surgeries I can
> > not use a top loading freezer.
> >
> > My older son put a 5 gallon carboy outside for me. Here in
> > Baltimore (pronounced: Ball-a-mer - The City that Slurs) the
> > temperature was 5F (-15C) and he didn't come home for four
> > days. I couldn't carry it back in, but I went outside every
> > day rotated the carboy enough to get circulation. It did
> > stop the fermentation and I used rotgut vodka in the airlock
> > so that had no chance of freezing.
> >
> > Now I am a Mead guy and want to use it to kill off fermentation.
> > I had an experience with some Paul Masson wines several years.
> > After a convention, I took several gallons home with me to store
> > for later organization meetings. It was January in Chicago and
> > I left them in the trunk of my car from Sunday evening to Tuesday
> > afternoon. Night temperatures were -10 F. That's called a warm
> > winter in Chicago. They froze and unthawed they had a significantly
> > different taste. I am not a Wine guy, but the difference was
> > obvious. Now 26F = -3.67C. Am I paranoid or is that low enough
> > to freeze if left there for a week.
> >
> > Dick
>
> Dick,
> Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C. Cold
> stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.

The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by two,
equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.






> --
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>

"Lum" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >>> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold
> > >>> stabilization is not quite complete. Commercial wines
> > >>> are often held at 26 to 28 degrees for several days.
> >
> > >> The best I can do is 33*F for unlimited time. Will this
> > >> "high temp" cold stabilization do anything worth waiting for?????
> >
> > > Sure. It will cold stabilize the wine down to a temperature
> > > of about 33 degrees. Most refrigerators are set to temps
> > > higher than 33 degrees so your wine shouldn't show very much
> > > tartrate crystals when they are chilled for serving. But,
> > > cold stabilizing at 33 degrees _may_ take several weeks.
> >
> > This is a very important issue for me as I am looking around
> > for used front door freezer. Due to recent surgeries I can
> > not use a top loading freezer.
> >
> > My older son put a 5 gallon carboy outside for me. Here in
> > Baltimore (pronounced: Ball-a-mer - The City that Slurs) the
> > temperature was 5F (-15C) and he didn't come home for four
> > days. I couldn't carry it back in, but I went outside every
> > day rotated the carboy enough to get circulation. It did
> > stop the fermentation and I used rotgut vodka in the airlock
> > so that had no chance of freezing.
> >
> > Now I am a Mead guy and want to use it to kill off fermentation.
> > I had an experience with some Paul Masson wines several years.
> > After a convention, I took several gallons home with me to store
> > for later organization meetings. It was January in Chicago and
> > I left them in the trunk of my car from Sunday evening to Tuesday
> > afternoon. Night temperatures were -10 F. That's called a warm
> > winter in Chicago. They froze and unthawed they had a significantly
> > different taste. I am not a Wine guy, but the difference was
> > obvious. Now 26F = -3.67C. Am I paranoid or is that low enough
> > to freeze if left there for a week.
> >
> > Dick
>
> Dick,
> Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C. Cold
> stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.

The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by two,
equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.






> --
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
>
>
>

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
Snip.......
> > Dick,
> > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
Cold
> > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.
>>

> The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by two,
> equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.

Bob,
Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you give me
a reference?
Lum

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
Snip.......
> > Dick,
> > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
Cold
> > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.
>>

> The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by two,
> equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.

Bob,
Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you give me
a reference?
Lum

Lum ) wrote:

>"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>Snip.......
>> > Dick,
>> > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
>Cold
>> > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.
>>>

>> The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by two,
>> equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.

> Bob,
>Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
>stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you give me
>a reference?
>Lum


Hey Lum,

My understanidn was that that formula was supposed to be a rough
approximation of the temperature at which any given wine would
freeze.

Where you cold stabilize it, as you pointed out above, is up to
you. There's a great paper by, I think, Fritz Neradt and someone
else about seeding to achieve cold stabilization that makes this
point really nicely.

I can't remember where I originally read that formula, though. It
definitely wasn't from a peer-reviewed journal kinda thing. More
like "here's how to make wine at home!" kinda thing.

Dave
************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden

Lum ) wrote:

>"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>Snip.......
>> > Dick,
>> > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
>Cold
>> > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing point.
>>>

>> The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by two,
>> equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.

> Bob,
>Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
>stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you give me
>a reference?
>Lum


Hey Lum,

My understanidn was that that formula was supposed to be a rough
approximation of the temperature at which any given wine would
freeze.

Where you cold stabilize it, as you pointed out above, is up to
you. There's a great paper by, I think, Fritz Neradt and someone
else about seeding to achieve cold stabilization that makes this
point really nicely.

I can't remember where I originally read that formula, though. It
definitely wasn't from a peer-reviewed journal kinda thing. More
like "here's how to make wine at home!" kinda thing.

Dave
************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden

"David C Breeden" > wrote in message
...
> Lum ) wrote:
>
> >"Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >Snip.......
> >> > Dick,
> >> > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
> >Cold
> >> > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing
point.
> >>>
>
> >> The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by
two,
> >> equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.
>
> > Bob,
> >Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
> >stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you give
me
> >a reference?
> >Lum
>
>
> Hey Lum,
>
> My understanidn was that that formula was supposed to be a rough
> approximation of the temperature at which any given wine would
> freeze.
>
> Where you cold stabilize it, as you pointed out above, is up to
> you. There's a great paper by, I think, Fritz Neradt and someone
> else about seeding to achieve cold stabilization that makes this
> point really nicely.
>
> I can't remember where I originally read that formula, though. It
> definitely wasn't from a peer-reviewed journal kinda thing. More
> like "here's how to make wine at home!" kinda thing.
>
> Dave

Hi Dave,
I completely missed the point. Thanks for enlightening me. Seems like the
older I get, the dumber I get (and I never was very smart).
--
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
> Snip.......
> > > Dick,
> > > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
> Cold
> > > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing
point.
> >>
>
> > The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by
two,
> > equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.
>
> Bob,
> Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
> stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you give
me
> a reference?
> Lum
>
THat is what I read here verbatim a few months back.

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lum" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > Snip.......
> > > > Dick,
> > > > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
> > Cold
> > > > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing
> point.
> > >>
> >
> > > The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by
> two,
> > > equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.
> >
> > Bob,
> > Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
> > stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you
give
> me
> > a reference?
> > Lum
> >
> THat is what I read here verbatim a few months back.
>

Thanks much Bob.

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lum" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > Snip.......
> > > > Dick,
> > > > Alcohol depresses the freezing point of wine to -5 to -6 degrees C.
> > Cold
> > > > stabilization is normally done above, but close to, the freezing
> point.
> > >>
> >
> > > The cold stabilization formula is %alcohol minus one, divided by
> two,
> > > equals degrees below zero Centigrade. ie, 12%= (12-1)/2=-5.5*C.
> >
> > Bob,
> > Are you implying some particular temperature is needed or makes cold
> > stabilization more effective? If so, I am very interested. Can you
give
> me
> > a reference?
> > Lum
> >
> THat is what I read here verbatim a few months back.
>

Thanks much Bob.

Lum wrote:
>
> Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is
not
> quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees
for
> several days. More info here
> http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt15.html
> Good luck
> Lum

Thanks, Lum, that makes sense. The only remaining question is - I don't
seem to get any crystals anymore, just the temporary haze that goes
away when the wine warms up to room temperature. Is it harder to get
crystals if the wine has been incompletely cold stabilized before?

Thx,

Pp

"pp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Lum wrote:
> >
> > Protein hazes occur at high temperatures. Your cold stabilization is
> not
> > quite complete. Commercial wines are often held at 26 to 28 degrees
> for
> > several days. More info here
> > http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt15.html
> > Good luck
> > Lum
>
> Thanks, Lum, that makes sense. The only remaining question is - I don't
> seem to get any crystals anymore, just the temporary haze that goes
> away when the wine warms up to room temperature. Is it harder to get
> crystals if the wine has been incompletely cold stabilized before?
>
> Thx,
>
> Pp

I don't know the answer to your question Pp. But, I do know hazes are more
likely with a rapid cool-down with no crystals in the container. So, I
would get a small container of "cream of tartar" at the grocery store. Add
a couple tablespoons of crystals to each carboy and try cooling the wine
again.
Good luck,
--
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA