it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often? i
have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high ph
could it spoil itself?

fishziblu wrote:

> it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
> first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
> reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
> 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often? i
> have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high ph
> could it spoil itself?
It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If you did not
add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably underwent a ML fermention
from the natural culture on the grapes. You did the right thing by adding
tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the amount you
use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added the tartaric.

In article >,
"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:

> fishziblu wrote:
>
> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
> > 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often? i
> > have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high ph
> > could it spoil itself?
> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If you did not
> add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably underwent a ML fermention
> from the natural culture on the grapes. You did the right thing by adding
> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the amount you
> use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added the tartaric.

Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)

You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method calls
for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask, and a
burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing like 100
parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a blinding
headache.

For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
water to make a 5% solution. Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of .063
equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add (#ppm X
gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to aldehydes,
sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of ppm of SO2
expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with SO2, you'll
get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little effect on
micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness
of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use
30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you
well.
--
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

Wildbilly wrote:

> In article >,
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>> fishziblu wrote:
>>
>> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
>> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
>> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
>> > 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often? i
>> > have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high ph
>> > could it spoil itself?
>> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If you did
>> not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably underwent a ML
>> fermention from the natural culture on the grapes. You did the right
>> thing by adding
>> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the amount you
>> use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added the tartaric.
>
> Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
>
> You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method calls
> for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask, and a
> burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing like 100
> parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a blinding
> headache.
>
> For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
> water to make a 5% solution.

WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one POUND of
Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5% solution. Try
100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
solution. See

http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm

section 19 on the details.

Paul


> Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
> want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of .063
> equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add (#ppm X
> gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to aldehydes,
> sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of ppm of SO2
> expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with SO2, you'll
> get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little effect on
> micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness
> of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use
> 30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you
> well.

In article >,
"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:

> Wildbilly wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> >
> >> fishziblu wrote:
> >>
> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
> >> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
> >> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
> >> > 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often? i
> >> > have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high ph
> >> > could it spoil itself?
> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If you did
> >> not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably underwent a ML
> >> fermention from the natural culture on the grapes. You did the right
> >> thing by adding
> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the amount you
> >> use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added the tartaric.
> >
> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
> >
> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method calls
> > for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask, and a
> > burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing like 100
> > parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a blinding
> > headache.
> >
> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
> > water to make a 5% solution.
>
> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one POUND of
> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5% solution. Try
> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
> solution. See
>
> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
>
> section 19 on the details.
>
> Paul
>
>
> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of .063
> > equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add (#ppm X
> > gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to aldehydes,
> > sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of ppm of SO2
> > expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with SO2, you'll
> > get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little effect on
> > micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness
> > of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use
> > 30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you
> > well.

19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a 5.76%
solution. My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 = 6.4%
SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying for 32
ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.

You'll also notice I was much more bref than
http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)
--
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

Wildbilly wrote:

> In article >,
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>> Wildbilly wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> fishziblu wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
>> >> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
>> >> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
>> >> > 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often?
>> >> > i have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high
>> >> > ph could it spoil itself?
>> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If you
>> >> did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably underwent a
>> >> ML fermention from the natural culture on the grapes. You did the
>> >> right thing by adding
>> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the amount
>> >> you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added the
>> >> tartaric.
>> >
>> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
>> >
>> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method calls
>> > for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask, and a
>> > burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing like 100
>> > parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a blinding
>> > headache.
>> >
>> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
>> > water to make a 5% solution.
>>
>> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one POUND
>> of
>> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5% solution. Try
>> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
>> solution. See
>>
>> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
>>
>> section 19 on the details.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
>> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of .063
>> > equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add (#ppm X
>> > gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to aldehydes,
>> > sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of ppm of SO2
>> > expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with SO2, you'll
>> > get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little effect on
>> > micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness
>> > of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use
>> > 30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you
>> > well.
>
> 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a 5.76%
> solution. My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
> gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
> 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 = 6.4%
> SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying for 32
> ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
>
> You'll also notice I was much more bref than
> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)

The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into consideration
when he gives the formulae for additions using the "Stock Solution" he
makes.

In article >,
"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:

> Wildbilly wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> >
> >> Wildbilly wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> fishziblu wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
> >> >> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
> >> >> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up to
> >> >> > 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more often?
> >> >> > i have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent with a high
> >> >> > ph could it spoil itself?
> >> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If you
> >> >> did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably underwent a
> >> >> ML fermention from the natural culture on the grapes. You did the
> >> >> right thing by adding
> >> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the amount
> >> >> you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added the
> >> >> tartaric.
> >> >
> >> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
> >> >
> >> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method calls
> >> > for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask, and a
> >> > burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing like 100
> >> > parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a blinding
> >> > headache.
> >> >
> >> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
> >> > water to make a 5% solution.
> >>
> >> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one POUND
> >> of
> >> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5% solution. Try
> >> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
> >> solution. See
> >>
> >> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
> >>
> >> section 19 on the details.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
> >> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of .063
> >> > equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add (#ppm X
> >> > gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to aldehydes,
> >> > sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of ppm of SO2
> >> > expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with SO2, you'll
> >> > get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little effect on
> >> > micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness
> >> > of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use
> >> > 30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you
> >> > well.
> >
> > 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a 5.76%
> > solution. My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
> > gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
> > 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 = 6.4%
> > SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying for 32
> > ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
> >
> > You'll also notice I was much more bref than
> > http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)
>
> The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into consideration
> when he gives the formulae for additions using the "Stock Solution" he
> makes.

Uh, Paul, YOU said above, that 100 grams of metabi per 1 litre would
give a 5% solution of SO2.

My point is that 1 lb/1 gallon is easier to remember than 86.8
grams/100ml (which you didn't). There is rarely a direct correspondence
between SO2 added and SO2 measured. If you add 15ppm SO2 to a new wine,
you may get a 5ppm or 10ppm of SO2 rise in the wine. If you want to
remember 86.8g/100ml, go for it.

I think everyone gets it.
--
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

Wildbilly wrote:

> In article >,
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>> Wildbilly wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> fishziblu wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
>> >> >> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
>> >> >> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up
>> >> >> > to 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more
>> >> >> > often? i have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent
>> >> >> > with a high ph could it spoil itself?
>> >> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If
>> >> >> you did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably
>> >> >> underwent a ML fermention from the natural culture on the grapes.
>> >> >> You did the right thing by adding
>> >> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the
>> >> >> amount you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added
>> >> >> the tartaric.
>> >> >
>> >> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
>> >> >
>> >> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method
>> >> > calls for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask,
>> >> > and a burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing
>> >> > like 100 parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a
>> >> > blinding headache.
>> >> >
>> >> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
>> >> > water to make a 5% solution.
>> >>
>> >> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one
>> >> POUND of
>> >> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5% solution.
>> >> Try
>> >> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
>> >> solution. See
>> >>
>> >> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
>> >>
>> >> section 19 on the details.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
>> >> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of
>> >> > .063 equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add
>> >> > (#ppm X gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to
>> >> > aldehydes, sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of
>> >> > ppm of SO2 expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with
>> >> > SO2, you'll get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little
>> >> > effect on micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The
>> >> > effectiveness of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a
>> >> > pH of 3 to 4, use 30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb
>> >> > but should serve you well.
>> >
>> > 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
>> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a 5.76%
>> > solution. My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
>> > gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
>> > 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 = 6.4%
>> > SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying for 32
>> > ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
>> >
>> > You'll also notice I was much more bref than
>> > http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)
>>
>> The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into
>> consideration when he gives the formulae for additions using the "Stock
>> Solution" he makes.
>
> Uh, Paul, YOU said above, that 100 grams of metabi per 1 litre would
> give a 5% solution of SO2.

No, If you read the link you would see that one puts 100 grams in a liter
container and fills it up to the one liter mark. In other words, it is 100
grams IN a liter not 100 grams TO a liter. Also it is not a 5% solution
but a 10% solution.

>
> My point is that 1 lb/1 gallon is easier to remember than 86.8
> grams/100ml (which you didn't).

I believe most amateur wine makers are more likely to have 100 grams on hand
rather than one pound and the one liter solution will last a long time for
most amateur winemakers. One gallon is a LOT to make - unless you use it
to bathe with also :-)

> There is rarely a direct correspondence
> between SO2 added and SO2 measured. If you add 15ppm SO2 to a new wine,
> you may get a 5ppm or 10ppm of SO2 rise in the wine. If you want to
> remember 86.8g/100ml, go for it.

True, I never argued the bound issue.

>
> I think everyone gets it.

I think than anyone who wants to read and have a good knowledge will read
the link I referred to. I am not interested into getting into a ****ing
contest with you but I would appreciate if you read the link instead of
commenting off cuff. I belive the author has a LOT of knowledge on the
subject.

In article >,
"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:

> Wildbilly wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> >
> >> Wildbilly wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Wildbilly wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> fishziblu wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after the
> >> >> >> > first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the grapes my
> >> >> >> > reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph has gone up
> >> >> >> > to 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check the wine more
> >> >> >> > often? i have added some tartaric now. During the time it spent
> >> >> >> > with a high ph could it spoil itself?
> >> >> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If
> >> >> >> you did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably
> >> >> >> underwent a ML fermention from the natural culture on the grapes.
> >> >> >> You did the right thing by adding
> >> >> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the
> >> >> >> amount you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you added
> >> >> >> the tartaric.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method
> >> >> > calls for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask,
> >> >> > and a burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2. Nothing
> >> >> > like 100 parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to give you a
> >> >> > blinding headache.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon of
> >> >> > water to make a 5% solution.
> >> >>
> >> >> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one
> >> >> POUND of
> >> >> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5% solution.
I think we can agree that it is a 6.4% SO2 solution.
> >> >> Try
> >> >> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
> >> >> solution.
You will see that it is a 5.76% SO2 solution. (see below)
> >> >> See
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
> >> >>
> >> >> section 19 on the details.
> >> >>
> >> >> Paul
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
> >> >> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor of
> >> >> > .063 equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to add
> >> >> > (#ppm X gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind to
> >> >> > aldehydes, sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number of
> >> >> > ppm of SO2 expressed, but once these compounds become saturated with
> >> >> > SO2, you'll get more of a linear response. The bound SO2 has little
> >> >> > effect on micro-organisms, which is the job of the "free" SO2. The
> >> >> > effectiveness of the SO2 is dependent on the pH of the wine. For a
> >> >> > pH of 3 to 4, use 30 to 40 ppm SO2. This is a rough rule of thumb
> >> >> > but should serve you well.
> >> >
The calculations are here Paul.
> >> > 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> >> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a 5.76%
> >> > solution.
(100g X .576)/1000g H2O = .0567 = 5.76%
> >> > My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
> >> > gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
> >> > 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 = 6.4%
> >> > SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying for 32
> >> > ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
> >> >
> >> > You'll also notice I was much more bref than
> >> > http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)
> >>
> >> The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into
> >> consideration when he gives the formulae for additions using the "Stock
> >> Solution" he makes.
> >
> > Uh, Paul, YOU said above, that 100 grams of metabi per 1 litre would
> > give a 5% solution of SO2.
>
> No, If you read the link
This is wearisome. You made a statement, **"AND"** you gave a link
> you would see that one puts 100 grams in a liter
> container and fills it up to the one liter mark. In other words, it is 100
> grams IN a liter not 100 grams TO a liter. Also it is not a 5% solution
> but a 10% solution.
>
> >
> > My point is that 1 lb/1 gallon is easier to remember than 86.8
> > grams/100ml (which you didn't).
>
> I believe most amateur wine makers are more likely to have 100 grams on hand
> rather than one pound and the one liter solution will last a long time for
> most amateur winemakers. One gallon is a LOT to make - unless you use it
> to bathe with also :-)
>
> > There is rarely a direct correspondence
> > between SO2 added and SO2 measured. If you add 15ppm SO2 to a new wine,
> > you may get a 5ppm or 10ppm of SO2 rise in the wine. If you want to
> > remember 86.8g/100ml, go for it.
>
> True, I never argued the bound issue.
????? To paraphrase our murderous ex-vice president, "accuracy is a
virtue".
>
> >
I think everyone else gets it.
>
> I think than anyone who wants to read and have a good knowledge will read
> the link I referred to. I am not interested into getting into a ****ing
> contest with you

You are, and you have.

> but I would appreciate if you read the link instead of
> commenting off cuff. I belive the author has a LOT of knowledge on the
> subject.

You don't think that someone might try a 1/4 lb in a quart? Don't even
need a balance.

I read the link Paul, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to quote
"19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," ".

Yes it is a good site to begin learning about the technical side of wine
making.

Don't think there is much more fun to be wrung out of this post. Bye.
--
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

Wildbilly wrote:

> In article >,
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>> Wildbilly wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > In article >,
>> >> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> fishziblu wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after
>> >> >> >> > the first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the
>> >> >> >> > grapes my reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph
>> >> >> >> > has gone up to 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check
>> >> >> >> > the wine more often? i have added some tartaric now. During
>> >> >> >> > the time it spent with a high ph could it spoil itself?
>> >> >> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If
>> >> >> >> you did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably
>> >> >> >> underwent a ML fermention from the natural culture on the
>> >> >> >> grapes. You did the right thing by adding
>> >> >> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the
>> >> >> >> amount you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you
>> >> >> >> added the tartaric.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method
>> >> >> > calls for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask,
>> >> >> > and a burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2.
>> >> >> > Nothing like 100 parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to
>> >> >> > give you a blinding headache.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon
>> >> >> > of water to make a 5% solution.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one
>> >> >> POUND of
>> >> >> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5%
>> >> >> solution.
> I think we can agree that it is a 6.4% SO2 solution.
>> >> >> Try
>> >> >> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
>> >> >> solution.
> You will see that it is a 5.76% SO2 solution. (see below)
>> >> >> See
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
>> >> >>
>> >> >> section 19 on the details.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Paul
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
>> >> >> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor
>> >> >> > of .063 equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to
>> >> >> > add (#ppm X gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind
>> >> >> > to aldehydes, sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number
>> >> >> > of ppm of SO2 expressed, but once these compounds become
>> >> >> > saturated with SO2, you'll get more of a linear response. The
>> >> >> > bound SO2 has little effect on micro-organisms, which is the job
>> >> >> > of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness of the SO2 is dependent on
>> >> >> > the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use 30 to 40 ppm SO2.
>> >> >> > This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you well.
>> >> >
> The calculations are here Paul.
>> >> > 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
>> >> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a
>> >> > 5.76% solution.
> (100g X .576)/1000g H2O = .0567 = 5.76%
>> >> > My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
>> >> > gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
>> >> > 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 =
>> >> > 6.4% SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying
>> >> > for 32 ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
>> >> >
>> >> > You'll also notice I was much more bref than
>> >> > http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)
>> >>
>> >> The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into
>> >> consideration when he gives the formulae for additions using the
>> >> "Stock Solution" he makes.
>> >
>> > Uh, Paul, YOU said above, that 100 grams of metabi per 1 litre would
>> > give a 5% solution of SO2.
>>
>> No, If you read the link
> This is wearisome. You made a statement, **"AND"** you gave a link
>> you would see that one puts 100 grams in a liter
>> container and fills it up to the one liter mark. In other words, it is
>> 100
>> grams IN a liter not 100 grams TO a liter. Also it is not a 5% solution
>> but a 10% solution.
>>
>> >
>> > My point is that 1 lb/1 gallon is easier to remember than 86.8
>> > grams/100ml (which you didn't).
>>
>> I believe most amateur wine makers are more likely to have 100 grams on
>> hand rather than one pound and the one liter solution will last a long
>> time for
>> most amateur winemakers. One gallon is a LOT to make - unless you use it
>> to bathe with also :-)
>>
>> > There is rarely a direct correspondence
>> > between SO2 added and SO2 measured. If you add 15ppm SO2 to a new wine,
>> > you may get a 5ppm or 10ppm of SO2 rise in the wine. If you want to
>> > remember 86.8g/100ml, go for it.
>>
>> True, I never argued the bound issue.
> ????? To paraphrase our murderous ex-vice president, "accuracy is a
> virtue".
>>
>> >
> I think everyone else gets it.
>>
>> I think than anyone who wants to read and have a good knowledge will read
>> the link I referred to. I am not interested into getting into a ****ing
>> contest with you
>
> You are, and you have.
>
>> but I would appreciate if you read the link instead of
>> commenting off cuff. I belive the author has a LOT of knowledge on the
>> subject.
>
> You don't think that someone might try a 1/4 lb in a quart? Don't even
> need a balance.
>
> I read the link Paul, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to quote
> "19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," ".
>
> Yes it is a good site to begin learning about the technical side of wine
> making.
>
> Don't think there is much more fun to be wrung out of this post. Bye.

Not to or for Wildbilly, but for anyone else following this thread:

To make a "Stock Solution" of potassium metabisulfite,

1) put 100 grams of potassium metabisulfite in a vessel that is graduated so
that it indicates liters or parts thereof.

2) fill the container with water to the one liter mark and dissolve the
potassium metabisulfite. You now have a 10% solution.

3) to calculate the amount of stock solution you need, use the following:
so2 = ((ppm * liters) / 100) / .576

where so2 is the amount of SO2 stock Solution in ml that you need to add.;
ppm is your desired SO2 im ppm

be careful of the placement of the paranthesis when you do the math or put
this in a spreadsheet.

example 1: you wish to add the necessary SO2 to give you 50ppm in one gallon
if you plug in 3.785 liters in the above and do the math, the answer is 3.29
ml.

example 2: you wish to increase the SO2 in 5 gallons of wine by 25 ppm
if you plug in 18.92 for liters the answer is 8.21 ml

remember that one gallon is 3.785 liters so make the necessary conversions
Also note: that has been pointed out, that you do not need to make a liter,
you can if you wish, for example, use 50 grams in 0.5 liters and still have
the 10% solution.

The above does not include bounding that will occur and will be greater at
small amounts. To see more of the details on this and pH considerations
see the link at: Also take into account the pH of your wine

http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm

I just use 1/4 tsp of Potassium Metabisulfate per 5 gals of wine for
approx. 50ppm of SO2. Seems to work fine.


On Jan 12, 8:22*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
wrote:
> Wildbilly wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > *"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
> >> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > *"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> >> > *"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> fishziblu wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after
> >> >> >> >> > the first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the
> >> >> >> >> > grapes my reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph
> >> >> >> >> > has gone up to 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check
> >> >> >> >> > the wine more often? i have added some tartaric now. During
> >> >> >> >> > the time it spent with a high ph could it spoil itself?
> >> >> >> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If
> >> >> >> >> you did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably
> >> >> >> >> underwent a ML fermention from the natural culture on the
> >> >> >> >> grapes. You did the right thing by adding
> >> >> >> >> tartaric. *You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the
> >> >> >> >> amount you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you
> >> >> >> >> added the tartaric.
>
> >> >> >> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
>
> >> >> >> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method
> >> >> >> > calls for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask,
> >> >> >> > and a burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2.
> >> >> >> > Nothing like 100 parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to
> >> >> >> > give you a blinding headache.
>
> >> >> >> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon
> >> >> >> > of water to make a 5% solution.
>
> >> >> >> WHOA, Wildbilly. *Are you sure of your units? *I believe that one
> >> >> >> POUND of
> >> >> >> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5%
> >> >> >> solution.
> > I think we can agree that it is a 6.4% SO2 solution.
> >> >> >> Try
> >> >> >> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. *This is a 10%
> >> >> >> solution.
> > You will see that it is a 5.76% SO2 solution. (see below)
> >> >> >> See
>
> >> >> >>http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
>
> >> >> >> section 19 on the details.
>
> >> >> >> Paul
>
> >> >> >> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
> >> >> >> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor
> >> >> >> > of .063 equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to
> >> >> >> > add (#ppm X gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind
> >> >> >> > to aldehydes, sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number
> >> >> >> > of ppm of SO2 expressed, but once these compounds become
> >> >> >> > saturated with SO2, you'll get more of a linear response. The
> >> >> >> > bound SO2 has little effect on micro-organisms, which is the job
> >> >> >> > of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness of the SO2 is dependent on
> >> >> >> > the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use 30 to 40 ppm SO2.
> >> >> >> > This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you well.
>
> > The calculations are here Paul.
> >> >> > 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> >> >> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a
> >> >> > 5.76% solution.
> > (100g X .576)/1000g H2O = .0567 = 5.76%
> >> >> > My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
> >> >> > gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
> >> >> > 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 =
> >> >> > 6.4% SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying
> >> >> > for 32 ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
>
> >> >> > You'll also notice I was much more bref than
> >> >> >http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm* ;O)
>
> >> >> The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into
> >> >> consideration when he gives the formulae for additions using the
> >> >> "Stock Solution" he makes.
>
> >> > Uh, Paul, YOU said above, that 100 grams of metabi per 1 litre would
> >> > give a 5% solution of SO2.
>
> >> No, If you read the link
> > This is wearisome. You made a statement, **"AND"** you gave a link
> >> you would see that one puts 100 grams in a liter
> >> container and fills it up to the one liter mark. *In other words, it is
> >> 100
> >> grams IN a liter not 100 grams TO a liter. *Also it is not a 5% solution
> >> but a 10% solution.
>
> >> > My point is that 1 lb/1 gallon is easier to remember than 86.8
> >> > grams/100ml (which you didn't).
>
> >> I believe most amateur wine makers are more likely to have 100 grams on
> >> hand rather than one pound and the one liter solution will last a long
> >> time for
> >> most amateur winemakers. *One gallon is a LOT to make - unless you use it
> >> to bathe with also :-)
>
> >> > There is rarely a direct correspondence
> >> > between SO2 added and SO2 measured. If you add 15ppm SO2 to a new wine,
> >> > you may get a 5ppm or 10ppm of SO2 rise in the wine. If you want to
> >> > remember 86.8g/100ml, go for it.
>
> >> True, I never argued the bound issue.
> > ????? To paraphrase our murderous ex-vice president, "accuracy is a
> > virtue".
>
> > I think everyone else gets it.
>
> >> I think than anyone who wants to read and have a good knowledge will read
> >> the link I referred to. *I am not interested into getting into a ****ing
> >> contest with you
>
> > You are, and you have.
>
> >> but I would appreciate if you read the link instead of
> >> commenting off cuff. *I belive the author has a LOT of knowledge on the
> >> subject.
>
> > You don't think that someone might try a 1/4 lb in a quart? Don't even
> > need a balance.
>
> > I read the link Paul, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to quote
> > "19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," ".
>
> > Yes it is a good site to begin learning about the technical side of wine
> > making.
>
> > Don't think there is much more fun to be wrung out of this post. Bye.
>
> Not to or for Wildbilly, but for anyone else following this thread:
>
> To make a "Stock Solution" of potassium metabisulfite,
>
> 1) put 100 grams of potassium metabisulfite in a vessel that is graduated so
> that it indicates liters or parts thereof. *
>
> 2) fill the container with water to the one liter mark and dissolve the
> potassium metabisulfite. *You now have a 10% solution.
>
> 3) to calculate the amount of stock solution you need, use the following:
> so2 = ((ppm * liters) / 100) / .576
>
> where so2 is the amount of SO2 stock Solution in ml that you need to add.;
> ppm is your desired SO2 im ppm
>
> be careful of the placement of the paranthesis when you do the math or put
> this in a spreadsheet.
>
> example 1: you wish to add the necessary SO2 to give you 50ppm in one gallon
> if you plug in 3.785 liters in the above and do the math, the answer is 3..29
> ml. *
>
> example 2: you wish to increase the SO2 in 5 gallons of wine by 25 ppm
> if you plug in 18.92 for liters the answer is 8.21 ml
>
> remember that one gallon is 3.785 liters so make the necessary conversions
> Also note: that has been pointed out, that you do not need to make a liter,
> you can if you wish, for example, use 50 grams in 0.5 liters and still have
> the 10% solution.
>
> The above does not include bounding that will occur and will be greater at
> small amounts. *To see more of the details on this and pH considerations
> see the link at: *Also take into account the pH of your wine
>
> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm

In article
>,
wrote:

> I just use 1/4 tsp of Potassium Metabisulfate per 5 gals of wine for
> approx. 50ppm of SO2. Seems to work fine.
>
I'm glad it works for you, but can you define "fine"? I have never seen
a commercial winery add potassium metabisulfate powder directly to wine
(grapes, yes; wine, no). It is always hydrated first. Maybe they are all
just dumb.

Why would anyone want to add 50ppm SO2 to their wine?

Besides being bacteriostatic, SO2 will bleach your wine, so you always
want to use the minimum. At around 100 ppm, it will give you a sever
head ache. For sensitive people, it may give them an asthma attack in
the suggested 30 - 40 ppm range.

But if it works for you. Go for it.
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

On Jan 17, 6:14*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> wrote:
> > I just use 1/4 tsp of Potassium Metabisulfate per 5 gals of wine for
> > approx. 50ppm of SO2. Seems to work fine.
>
> I'm glad it works for you, but can you define "fine"? I have never seen
> a commercial winery add potassium metabisulfate powder directly to wine
> (grapes, yes; wine, no). It is always hydrated first. Maybe they are all
> just dumb.
>
"I have never seen
a commercial winery add potassium metabisulfate powder directly to
wine
(grapes, yes; wine, no). It is always hydrated first. Maybe they are
all
just dumb. "

Maybe they are. I know there is oxygen dissolved in water and I also
know the amountr can vary. If you make a SO2 solution some of that SO2
can bind with the SO2 in the water and become less effective. By
putting the SO2 in the bottom of the carboy before I rack and then
slowly swirl the SO2 into the wine , whatever oxygen that binds with
the SO2 is oxygen in my wine, not in the water I used to make the
solution before I add it to the wine.


> Why would anyone want to add 50ppm SO2 to their wine?
>
> Besides being bacteriostatic, SO2 will bleach your wine, so you always
> want to use the minimum. At around 100 ppm, it will give you a sever
> head ache. For sensitive people, it may give them an asthma attack in
> the suggested 30 - 40 ppm range.
>
> But if it works for you. Go for it.
> --
> When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.
> -Archbishop Helder Camara
>
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...erts020709.htm

"Why would anyone want to add 50ppm SO2 to their wine?"

I don't know, maybe because that is the right level. Someone who
thinks SO2 gives you a headache is a moron. They don't know their ass
from their elbow.


On Jan 18, 8:43*pm, wrote:
> On Jan 17, 6:14*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:> In article
> > >,
>
> > wrote:
> > > I just use 1/4 tsp of Potassium Metabisulfate per 5 gals of wine for
> > > approx. 50ppm of SO2. Seems to work fine.
>
> > I'm glad it works for you, but can you define "fine"? I have never seen
> > a commercial winery add potassium metabisulfate powder directly to wine
> > (grapes, yes; wine, no). It is always hydrated first. Maybe they are all
> > just dumb.
>
> "I have never seen
> a commercial winery add potassium metabisulfate powder directly to
> wine
> (grapes, yes; wine, no). It is always hydrated first. Maybe they are
> all
> just dumb. "
>
> Maybe they are. I know there is oxygen dissolved in water and I also
> know the amountr can vary. If you make a SO2 solution some of that SO2
> can bind with the SO2 in the water and become less effective. By
> putting the SO2 in the bottom of the carboy before I rack and then
> slowly swirl the SO2 into the wine , whatever oxygen that binds with
> the SO2 is oxygen in my wine, not in the water I used to make the
> solution before I add it to the wine.
>
> *> Why would anyone want to add 50ppm SO2 to their wine?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Besides being bacteriostatic, SO2 will bleach your wine, so you always
> > want to use the minimum. At around 100 ppm, it will give you a sever
> > head ache. For sensitive people, it may give them an asthma attack in
> > the suggested 30 - 40 ppm range.
>
> > But if it works for you. Go for it.
> > --
> > When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.
> > -Archbishop Helder Camara
>
> >http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...8&pagename=JPo...

In article
>,
wrote:

> "I have never seen
> a commercial winery add potassium metabisulfate powder directly to
> wine
> (grapes, yes; wine, no). It is always hydrated first. Maybe they are
> all
> just dumb. "
>
> Maybe they are. I know there is oxygen dissolved in water and I also
> know the amountr can vary. If you make a SO2 solution some of that SO2
> can bind with the SO2 in the water and become less effective. By
> putting the SO2 in the bottom of the carboy before I rack and then
> slowly swirl the SO2 into the wine , whatever oxygen that binds with
> the SO2 is oxygen in my wine, not in the water I used to make the
> solution before I add it to the wine.

Can you bray "reaction products"?
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

In article
>,
wrote:

> "Why would anyone want to add 50ppm SO2 to their wine?"
>
> I don't know, maybe because that is the right level. Someone who
> thinks SO2 gives you a headache is a moron. They don't know their ass
> from their elbow.

Well, I know where my elbow is, and I know where the ass is.
I've been doing this commercially for over 30 years, without complaint.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

30 years? Maybe your stuck in a time warp. Actually, I don't care how
much time you've spent in the industry, from reading some of your
posts your ideas border on the absurd when it comes to amateur
winemaking. Professionals built the Titanic and amateurs built the
Arc. I

On Jan 19, 1:16*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> wrote:
> > "Why would anyone want to add 50ppm SO2 to their wine?"
>
> > I don't know, maybe because that is the right level. Someone who
> > thinks SO2 gives you a headache is a moron. They don't know their ass
> > from their elbow.
>
> Well, I know where my elbow is, and I know where the ass is.
> I've been doing this commercially for over 30 years, without complaint.
> --
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...erts020709.htm

In article
>,
wrote:

> 30 years? Maybe your stuck in a time warp. Actually, I don't care how
> much time you've spent in the industry, from reading some of your
> posts your ideas border on the absurd when it comes to amateur
> winemaking. Professionals built the Titanic and amateurs built the
> Arc. I

Hey, Stoopid, listen up.

.. . . the third and final factor behind the new American dumbness: not
lack of knowledge per se but arrogance about that lack of knowledge. The
problem is not just the things we do not know (consider the one in five
American adults who, according to the National Science Foundation,
thinks the sun revolves around the Earth); it's the alarming number of
Americans who have smugly concluded that they do not need to know such
things in the first place. Call this anti-rationalism -- a syndrome that
is particularly dangerous to our public institutions and discourse. Not
knowing a foreign language or the location of an important country is a
manifestation of ignorance; denying that such knowledge matters is pure
anti-rationalism. The toxic brew of anti-rationalism and ignorance hurts
discussions of U.S. public policy on topics from health care to taxation.

There is no quick cure for this epidemic of arrogant anti-rationalism
and anti-intellectualism; rote efforts to raise standardized test scores
by stuffing students with specific answers to specific questions on
specific tests will not do the job. Moreover, the people who exemplify
the problem are usually oblivious to it. ("Hardly anyone believes
himself to be against thought and culture," Hofstadter noted.) It is
past time for a serious national discussion about whether, as a nation,
we truly value intellect and rationality. If this indeed turns out to be
a "change election," the low level of discourse in a country with a mind
taught to aim at low objects ought to be the first item on the change
agenda.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2/15/AR2008021
502901.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR

washingtonpost.com > Opinions > Outlook
The Dumbing Of America
Call Me a Snob, but Really, We're a Nation of Dunces
By Susan Jacoby
Sunday, February 17, 2008; Page B01

----
And it was arrogance that sank the Titanic, and the Ark only exists in
faith.
----

What a humongous steaming pile of ignorance you are, Stoopid, and you're
not nice.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm

A nation of dunces? It is my opinion we don't don't have enough dunces
or at least people that can put concepts in laymens terms.


On Jan 19, 3:48*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> wrote:
> > 30 years? Maybe your stuck in a time warp. Actually, I don't care how
> > much time you've spent in the industry, from reading some of your
> > posts your ideas border on the absurd when it comes to amateur
> > winemaking. Professionals built the Titanic and amateurs built the
> > Arc. I
>
> Hey, Stoopid, listen up.
>
> . . . the third and final factor behind the new American dumbness: not
> lack of knowledge per se but arrogance about that lack of knowledge. The
> problem is not just the things we do not know (consider the one in five
> American adults who, according to the National Science Foundation,
> thinks the sun revolves around the Earth); it's the alarming number of
> Americans who have smugly concluded that they do not need to know such
> things in the first place. Call this anti-rationalism -- a syndrome that
> is particularly dangerous to our public institutions and discourse. Not
> knowing a foreign language or the location of an important country is a
> manifestation of ignorance; denying that such knowledge matters is pure
> anti-rationalism. The toxic brew of anti-rationalism and ignorance hurts
> discussions of U.S. public policy on topics from health care to taxation.
>
> There is no quick cure for this epidemic of arrogant anti-rationalism
> and anti-intellectualism; rote efforts to raise standardized test scores
> by stuffing students with specific answers to specific questions on
> specific tests will not do the job. Moreover, the people who exemplify
> the problem are usually oblivious to it. ("Hardly anyone believes
> himself to be against thought and culture," Hofstadter noted.) It is
> past time for a serious national discussion about whether, as a nation,
> we truly value intellect and rationality. If this indeed turns out to be
> a "change election," the low level of discourse in a country with a mind
> taught to aim at low objects ought to be the first item on the change
> agenda.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...08/02/15/AR200...
> 502901.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR
>
> washingtonpost.com *> Opinions *> Outlook
> The Dumbing Of America
> Call Me a Snob, but Really, We're a Nation of Dunces
> By Susan Jacoby
> Sunday, February 17, 2008; Page B01
>
> ----
> And it was arrogance that sank the Titanic, and the Ark only exists in
> faith.
> ----
>
> What a humongous steaming pile of ignorance you are, Stoopid, and you're
> not nice.
> --
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...erts020709.htm

On Jan 20, 2:03*am, wrote:
> A nation of dunces? It is my opinion we don't don't have enough dunces
> or at least people that can put concepts in laymens terms.
>
> On Jan 19, 3:48*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:
>
> > In article
> > >,
>
> > wrote:
> > > 30 years? Maybe your stuck in a time warp. Actually, I don't care how
> > > much time you've spent in the industry, from reading some of your
> > > posts your ideas border on the absurd when it comes to amateur
> > > winemaking. Professionals built the Titanic and amateurs built the
> > > Arc. I
>
> > Hey, Stoopid, listen up.
>
> > . . . the third and final factor behind the new American dumbness: not
> > lack of knowledge per se but arrogance about that lack of knowledge. The
> > problem is not just the things we do not know (consider the one in five
> > American adults who, according to the National Science Foundation,
> > thinks the sun revolves around the Earth); it's the alarming number of
> > Americans who have smugly concluded that they do not need to know such
> > things in the first place. Call this anti-rationalism -- a syndrome that
> > is particularly dangerous to our public institutions and discourse. Not
> > knowing a foreign language or the location of an important country is a
> > manifestation of ignorance; denying that such knowledge matters is pure
> > anti-rationalism. The toxic brew of anti-rationalism and ignorance hurts
> > discussions of U.S. public policy on topics from health care to taxation.