Wildbilly wrote:

> In article >,
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>> Wildbilly wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Wildbilly wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > In article >,
>> >> >> > "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> fishziblu wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > it is my second go at making wine,and i've noticed that after
>> >> >> >> > the first fermentation,the ph increases. When i crushed the
>> >> >> >> > grapes my reading was 3.4, however on my first racking the ph
>> >> >> >> > has gone up to 3.9. Is there a reason for this? Should i check
>> >> >> >> > the wine more often? i have added some tartaric now. During
>> >> >> >> > the time it spent with a high ph could it spoil itself?
>> >> >> >> It is common for the pH to rise during or after fermentation. If
>> >> >> >> you did not add any Malo Lactic culture, your grapes probably
>> >> >> >> underwent a ML fermention from the natural culture on the
>> >> >> >> grapes. You did the right thing by adding
>> >> >> >> tartaric. You also need to protect your wine with SO2 and the
>> >> >> >> amount you use depends on the new pH of your wine after you
>> >> >> >> added the tartaric.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Good news is that the pH is just about right for Robert Parker;O)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You need some way of measuring the "free" SO2. The Ripper method
>> >> >> > calls for a starch indicator, sulfuric acid, an Erlenmeyer flask,
>> >> >> > and a burette. Otherwise you risk O.D.ing your wine on SO2.
>> >> >> > Nothing like 100 parts per million (ppm) of SO2 in your wine to
>> >> >> > give you a blinding headache.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For the addition, I use 1 lb potassium metabisulfite per 1 gallon
>> >> >> > of water to make a 5% solution.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> WHOA, Wildbilly. Are you sure of your units? I believe that one
>> >> >> POUND of
>> >> >> Potassium metabisufite would give you a LOT more that a 5%
>> >> >> solution.
> I think we can agree that it is a 6.4% SO2 solution.
>> >> >> Try
>> >> >> 100 GRAMS in one LITER for a standardized solution. This is a 10%
>> >> >> solution.
> You will see that it is a 5.76% SO2 solution. (see below)
>> >> >> See
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm
>> >> >>
>> >> >> section 19 on the details.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Paul
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Then the formula is ppm of SO2 that you
>> >> >> > want to add, times the gallons added to, times the fudge factor
>> >> >> > of .063 equals the number of milliliters of 5% SO2 solution to
>> >> >> > add (#ppm X gallons X .063 = # mls). Initially the SO2 will bind
>> >> >> > to aldehydes, sugars, proteins, etc. and you won't see the number
>> >> >> > of ppm of SO2 expressed, but once these compounds become
>> >> >> > saturated with SO2, you'll get more of a linear response. The
>> >> >> > bound SO2 has little effect on micro-organisms, which is the job
>> >> >> > of the "free" SO2. The effectiveness of the SO2 is dependent on
>> >> >> > the pH of the wine. For a pH of 3 to 4, use 30 to 40 ppm SO2.
>> >> >> > This is a rough rule of thumb but should serve you well.
>> >> >
> The calculations are here Paul.
>> >> > 19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
>> >> > metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," your 100 grams per liter is a
>> >> > 5.76% solution.
> (100g X .576)/1000g H2O = .0567 = 5.76%
>> >> > My suggestion was 1 pound of metabisulfite/gallon H2O. A
>> >> > gallon is eight pounds plus the pound of metabi = 9 lbs. 1/9 =
>> >> > 0.11111111. Mutiply this by the efficency of 57.6%, (1/9) X .576 =
>> >> > 6.4% SO2. This is wine making, not rocket science. If you are trying
>> >> > for 32 ppm and get 30ppm or 34ppm, it's no big deal.
>> >> >
>> >> > You'll also notice I was much more bref than
>> >> > http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm ;O)
>> >>
>> >> The above link takes the 57.6%, you correctly reference, into
>> >> consideration when he gives the formulae for additions using the
>> >> "Stock Solution" he makes.
>> >
>> > Uh, Paul, YOU said above, that 100 grams of metabi per 1 litre would
>> > give a 5% solution of SO2.
>>
>> No, If you read the link
> This is wearisome. You made a statement, **"AND"** you gave a link
>> you would see that one puts 100 grams in a liter
>> container and fills it up to the one liter mark. In other words, it is
>> 100
>> grams IN a liter not 100 grams TO a liter. Also it is not a 5% solution
>> but a 10% solution.
>>
>> >
>> > My point is that 1 lb/1 gallon is easier to remember than 86.8
>> > grams/100ml (which you didn't).
>>
>> I believe most amateur wine makers are more likely to have 100 grams on
>> hand rather than one pound and the one liter solution will last a long
>> time for
>> most amateur winemakers. One gallon is a LOT to make - unless you use it
>> to bathe with also :-)
>>
>> > There is rarely a direct correspondence
>> > between SO2 added and SO2 measured. If you add 15ppm SO2 to a new wine,
>> > you may get a 5ppm or 10ppm of SO2 rise in the wine. If you want to
>> > remember 86.8g/100ml, go for it.
>>
>> True, I never argued the bound issue.
> ????? To paraphrase our murderous ex-vice president, "accuracy is a
> virtue".
>>
>> >
> I think everyone else gets it.
>>
>> I think than anyone who wants to read and have a good knowledge will read
>> the link I referred to. I am not interested into getting into a ****ing
>> contest with you
>
> You are, and you have.
>
>> but I would appreciate if you read the link instead of
>> commenting off cuff. I belive the author has a LOT of knowledge on the
>> subject.
>
> You don't think that someone might try a 1/4 lb in a quart? Don't even
> need a balance.
>
> I read the link Paul, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to quote
> "19. Stock Solutions, third paragraph, fifth line, "Since potassium
> metabisulphite is only 57.6% SO2," ".
>
> Yes it is a good site to begin learning about the technical side of wine
> making.
>
> Don't think there is much more fun to be wrung out of this post. Bye.

Not to or for Wildbilly, but for anyone else following this thread:

To make a "Stock Solution" of potassium metabisulfite,

1) put 100 grams of potassium metabisulfite in a vessel that is graduated so
that it indicates liters or parts thereof.

2) fill the container with water to the one liter mark and dissolve the
potassium metabisulfite. You now have a 10% solution.

3) to calculate the amount of stock solution you need, use the following:
so2 = ((ppm * liters) / 100) / .576

where so2 is the amount of SO2 stock Solution in ml that you need to add.;
ppm is your desired SO2 im ppm

be careful of the placement of the paranthesis when you do the math or put
this in a spreadsheet.

example 1: you wish to add the necessary SO2 to give you 50ppm in one gallon
if you plug in 3.785 liters in the above and do the math, the answer is 3.29
ml.

example 2: you wish to increase the SO2 in 5 gallons of wine by 25 ppm
if you plug in 18.92 for liters the answer is 8.21 ml

remember that one gallon is 3.785 liters so make the necessary conversions
Also note: that has been pointed out, that you do not need to make a liter,
you can if you wish, for example, use 50 grams in 0.5 liters and still have
the 10% solution.

The above does not include bounding that will occur and will be greater at
small amounts. To see more of the details on this and pH considerations
see the link at: Also take into account the pH of your wine

http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm