Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 23-06-2004, 11:39 AM
Joe Ae
 
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Default vinegar making

Just when I thought I understood the relationship between vinegar and wine I
was told that you can make vinegar directly from grape juice and water.
Does anyone have any information on this method? How do the pros make
vinegar?

thanks

Joe



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Old 24-06-2004, 03:08 AM
Pat Keith
 
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Default vinegar making

The vinegar bacteria can work with the yeast converting alcohol to vinegar
as fast as its made.



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Old 27-06-2004, 01:16 PM
Joe Sallustio
 
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Default vinegar making

I'm pretty sure that's how true balsamic's are made, they ferment and
infect the must at the same time. I have no experience with any of
this so can't speak on the process.

I'm not sure I understand adding water, some good vinegars are made
from partially raisined grapes, others boil the must to concentrate it
a bit. The goal is not necessarily a 'dry' vinegar in those cases
though, they have a residual sweetness to them; they age them quite a
while also.

Adding 1 part water, 1 part vinegar to two parts wine is common if you
want to end up with around 5% acetic acid vinegar. That's typically
how I make mine, most of my wine is 12% alcohol v/v. I really don't
use store bought vinegar anymore since making my own, it really does
taste better. I only use store bought for pickling since it's really
cheap.
Regards,
Joe


"Joe Ae" wrote in message ...
Just when I thought I understood the relationship between vinegar and wine I
was told that you can make vinegar directly from grape juice and water.
Does anyone have any information on this method? How do the pros make
vinegar?

thanks

Joe

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Old 27-06-2004, 07:19 PM
Paul E. Lehmann
 
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Default vinegar making

Joe Sallustio wrote:

...........


I'm not sure I understand adding water, some good vinegars are made
from partially raisined grapes, others boil the must to concentrate it
a bit. The goal is not necessarily a 'dry' vinegar in those cases
though, they have a residual sweetness to them; they age them quite a
while also.


Joe, a couple months ago I bought some mother of vinegar and added it to
some of my red wine and white wine. I have a gallon of each. Prior to
adding the vinegar, I added about 2 cups of water to the wine to dilute it
a bit since I heard that the mother culture might not like a high alcohol
to start with. So far nothing. There is a hint of vinegar to both but no
more than when I added the mother culture. Any ideas why it is not
working? I have it on the porch and far away from my wine cellar. I have
the top of the jugs stuffed with paper towels so air can get in. It is
pretty bad when a home winemaker can't even make vinegar.




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Old 01-07-2004, 10:18 AM
Joe Sallustio
 
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Default vinegar making

Paul,
some issue with google stopped this from going out, apologies.
Joe


Hi Paul,
I'm still learning as I go, but I have made some pretty fair vinegars
out of high acid reds I did not care for as wines. I started doing
some whites and meads too just for something different. I have too
much wine right now, a good problem to have...

Here are the proportions I use for plain vinegar:
One part starter vinegar,
One part water
2 parts wine.

That seems to work out no matter what, but the books may tell you
different. I have used wine I had sulfited at 50 PPM free and had no
issues, but when you think about it I added the same amount of other
'stuff' with the water and vinegar so that cut it in half. The
alcohol levels were usually between 12 and 13.5% v/v to start.

Here are some thoughts:

The warmer the vinegar is the faster it converts.

Is there any possiblity you did not have enough starter vinegar? That
can make it slower than molasses to convert, if it ever does...

I use 4x 4 gauge pads rather than paper towels, I have a ton of them
here from first aid kits I used to carry. Is there any chance you are
not getting enough air across it? Maybe consider using a single ply
of paper towel and a rubber band to hold it in place. I also try to
keep the surface area high, that gives you more exposure to air for
the acetobacter.

That is what seem to work for me, maybe someone else wil have some
other thoughts.
Regards,
Joe




"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message ...
Joe Sallustio wrote:

...........


I'm not sure I understand adding water, some good vinegars are made
from partially raisined grapes, others boil the must to concentrate it
a bit. The goal is not necessarily a 'dry' vinegar in those cases
though, they have a residual sweetness to them; they age them quite a
while also.


Joe, a couple months ago I bought some mother of vinegar and added it to
some of my red wine and white wine. I have a gallon of each. Prior to
adding the vinegar, I added about 2 cups of water to the wine to dilute it
a bit since I heard that the mother culture might not like a high alcohol
to start with. So far nothing. There is a hint of vinegar to both but no
more than when I added the mother culture. Any ideas why it is not
working? I have it on the porch and far away from my wine cellar. I have
the top of the jugs stuffed with paper towels so air can get in. It is
pretty bad when a home winemaker can't even make vinegar.



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