Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 14-01-2004, 05:29 PM
Dan
 
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Default finishing questions

I am planning out the finishing of my first batches. I have 1
gallon's of both strawberry and bannana. I have a 6 gallon batch that
is 3 gallons of both straw/bannana blended. The two recipies for
these wines are from Jack's site. I also have 4 gallons going of
raspberry/honey. This isnt a true melomel since I used 6# berries, 6#
honey then sweetened with sugar and my hydrometer. All batches where
fermented dry and are now aging. I plan to bulk age all of them for 6
months racking ever 60 days. The rasp. has already cleared after 2
weeks in primary and the others are hazy still after 2 months.

Anyway when bottling I want to stabalize and sweeten but need some
advice on this. I have 1 liter of must I siphoned off each batch that
I have frozen now. This was prior to yeast but after I used camden.
Should I use this too sweeten or will a water/sugar mix bring out
enough of the original fruit characteristic? If I use this frozen
mixture should I thaw it and let it settle for a period before using
it? If I do use this, I assume I will need to allow my wine to clear
again after sweetening? How often or how long could/should you rack
after stabilization before botteling? Can you stabilize - wait 10
days, sweeten - wait 60 days - bottle?

Also, how do you go about sweetening? siphon some wine out of a
caraboy, add sweetener back in then top off with wine you pulled out
and consume what is left? How do you mix the sweetening agent into
the wine, and how long do you wait after it is added to consider it
fully mixed so you can take a hydro reading? I also was hoping to
bottle 1/3 dry, then sweeten slihgtly and bottle another 1/3 then
sweeten some more and finish botteling so that I would better know my
tastes after aging another 6 months, but if you wait a period of time
before taking readings I dont know that is possible? I assume one
would not want to siphon the wine into a primary pail with a sphigot
and then from that sweeten and bottle?

Finally. Is their any charts or formulas that would say for example.
1 cup of liquid of S.G. 1.09 added to 1 gallon of S.G. .9 will raise
the batch to?

TIA for any of these answers! I have been wondering these questions
for a week or two.


Dan

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Old 15-01-2004, 12:21 AM
bwesley7
 
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Default finishing questions

I'll leave it to the experts to answer your questions (and take note of
those answers also)...
and ask one of my own: Why freeze the must?

Bart


Anyway when bottling I want to stabalize and sweeten but need some
advice on this. I have 1 liter of must I siphoned off each batch that
I have frozen now. This was prior to yeast but after I used camden.
Should I use this too sweeten or will a water/sugar mix bring out
enough of the original fruit characteristic? If I use this frozen
mixture should I thaw it and let it settle for a period before using
it? If I do use this, I assume I will need to allow my wine to clear
again after sweetening? How often or how long could/should you rack
after stabilization before botteling? Can you stabilize - wait 10
days, sweeten - wait 60 days - bottle?



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Old 15-01-2004, 04:18 PM
JEP
 
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Default finishing questions

(Dan) wrote in message om...

Anyway when bottling I want to stabalize and sweeten but need some
advice on this. I have 1 liter of must I siphoned off each batch that
I have frozen now. This was prior to yeast but after I used camden.
Should I use this too sweeten or will a water/sugar mix bring out
enough of the original fruit characteristic?


The must would be better (IMHO) but sugar will bring out the fruit
too. With only 1 liter of frozen must you may have to do both. Thaw
the must and add sugar to it until you get what you want.

BTW, the Campden may not be enough to prevent the added sugars from
fermenting. You should probably consider using Potassium Sorbate too.


If I use this frozen
mixture should I thaw it and let it settle for a period before using
it?


Yes.

If I do use this, I assume I will need to allow my wine to clear
again after sweetening?


Yes I do, but also to make sure the fermentation doesn't kick in
again.

How often or how long could/should you rack
after stabilization before botteling? Can you stabilize - wait 10
days, sweeten - wait 60 days - bottle?


You can. I usually, add Pot. Meta (or campden in your case), wait a
day and then add Sorbate, wait a day, add the sweetener, wait to make
sure fermentation doesn't kick in again and that the wine is still
stable, bottle. Just make sure that if you use Sorbate that you keep
the SO2 (campden) level up.

I usually don't have to worry about the wine clearing because I don't
start this process until the wine is very clear although some times
the addition of sweet reserve causes problems.


Also, how do you go about sweetening? siphon some wine out of a
caraboy, add sweetener back in then top off with wine you pulled out
and consume what is left?


Yes.

How do you mix the sweetening agent into
the wine, and how long do you wait after it is added to consider it
fully mixed so you can take a hydro reading?


I just gently mix it using my wine thief. I usually take the
hydrometer reading the next day or just right before bottling, but I
use a bench trial to figure out how much sugar I'm going to add so I
usually don't adjust. Just measure and add. The hydrometer reading is
more for the records than to adjust further.

I also was hoping to
bottle 1/3 dry, then sweeten slihgtly and bottle another 1/3 then
sweeten some more and finish botteling so that I would better know my
tastes after aging another 6 months, but if you wait a period of time
before taking readings I dont know that is possible? I assume one
would not want to siphon the wine into a primary pail with a sphigot
and then from that sweeten and bottle?

Finally. Is their any charts or formulas that would say for example.
1 cup of liquid of S.G. 1.09 added to 1 gallon of S.G. .9 will raise
the batch to?


Not that I'm aware of but it isn't too hard to calculate. Beer brewers
do it by using the numbers to the right of the decimal point. Multiply
this by the volume, sum them, then divide by the new volume.

For example,
If you have 1 gallon of liquid at 1.050 that you are adding to four
gallons of liquid at 1.010;
1*50 + 4 * 10 / 5 = 1.018 - your new SG.

For wine, just subract 1 from the measured SG so a wine with a SG 1
is accounted for.

For example,
If you have 1 gallon of liquid at 1.050 that you are adding to four
gallons of liquid at .995;

1*(1.050-1) + 4 * (.995 - 1) / 5 = 1.006

If the addition is in cups, just convert the gallons of wine to cups
and it should still work. 16 cups to the gallon.

Just remember that this is an estimate and is only as good as your SG
and volume measurements. This also is hard to do when using dry sugar
because you have to take into account how much the sugar will raise
the volume of the wine. There were some numbers floating around here a
few years ago about this, a search may turn something up.



Andy
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Old 15-01-2004, 05:45 PM
Dan
 
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Default finishing questions

well maybe must isn't the right word. The fruit was all in strainer
bags. What I did was to siphone off some of the liquid prior to
pitching the yeast. I read on a site somewhere that this could be
frozen and added back as a sweetener when finishing?


Dan
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Old 16-01-2004, 12:10 AM
Dar V
 
Posts: n/a
Default finishing questions

Dan,
I've been following the directions on Jack Keller's wine site for finishing
a wine, http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp . Since I like
semi-sweet wines, when I'm ready to finish a wine (after bulk aging), I
stabilize the wine, sweeten to taste, wait 10 days (or bulk age for 30
days), and then bottle. This gives the wine time to drop any yeasts
sediment. Remember to rack before bottling. So far, I'm happy with the
results.
Darlene

"Dan" wrote in message
m...
I am planning out the finishing of my first batches. I have 1
gallon's of both strawberry and bannana. I have a 6 gallon batch that
is 3 gallons of both straw/bannana blended. The two recipies for
these wines are from Jack's site. I also have 4 gallons going of
raspberry/honey. This isnt a true melomel since I used 6# berries, 6#
honey then sweetened with sugar and my hydrometer. All batches where
fermented dry and are now aging. I plan to bulk age all of them for 6
months racking ever 60 days. The rasp. has already cleared after 2
weeks in primary and the others are hazy still after 2 months.

Anyway when bottling I want to stabalize and sweeten but need some
advice on this. I have 1 liter of must I siphoned off each batch that
I have frozen now. This was prior to yeast but after I used camden.
Should I use this too sweeten or will a water/sugar mix bring out
enough of the original fruit characteristic? If I use this frozen
mixture should I thaw it and let it settle for a period before using
it? If I do use this, I assume I will need to allow my wine to clear
again after sweetening? How often or how long could/should you rack
after stabilization before botteling? Can you stabilize - wait 10
days, sweeten - wait 60 days - bottle?

Also, how do you go about sweetening? siphon some wine out of a
caraboy, add sweetener back in then top off with wine you pulled out
and consume what is left? How do you mix the sweetening agent into
the wine, and how long do you wait after it is added to consider it
fully mixed so you can take a hydro reading? I also was hoping to
bottle 1/3 dry, then sweeten slihgtly and bottle another 1/3 then
sweeten some more and finish botteling so that I would better know my
tastes after aging another 6 months, but if you wait a period of time
before taking readings I dont know that is possible? I assume one
would not want to siphon the wine into a primary pail with a sphigot
and then from that sweeten and bottle?

Finally. Is their any charts or formulas that would say for example.
1 cup of liquid of S.G. 1.09 added to 1 gallon of S.G. .9 will raise
the batch to?

TIA for any of these answers! I have been wondering these questions
for a week or two.


Dan





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Old 16-01-2004, 03:04 PM
Dan
 
Posts: n/a
Default finishing questions

Thank you for the replies. I have spent quite some time reading
Jack's finishing pages. They are full of information but I was still
fuzzy about where and how long the finishing takes. In a carboy or in
a pail, how long to wait when sweeting to taste it etc. All the
little things I can spend the whole day worring about while I wait a
few more months until the time comes
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Old 16-01-2004, 03:25 PM
Dar V
 
Posts: n/a
Default finishing questions

You know Dan, I never thought about that. Now this is the way I've been
doing it - At about 6 months, I rack the wine to a new jug, siphoning off
about a cup or so into a clear glass measuring cup. To this I add my
crushed campden tablet. After stirring until it is mixed, I pour back into
the gallon jug. Then I pour another cup or so out of the gallon jug - add
my stabilizing agent, stir to make sure it is dissolved, and then pour back
into the jug. Then I pour some more out - add the sugar, stir until
dissolved, and pour back into my 1 gallon jug. I've been known to use my
big stir stick to stir the contents of the entire jug, to make sure
everything is mixed. Then I put the bung and airlock back on and let it sit
for a month before I rack again and then bottle. I do it all at once. It
seems to work. Maybe someone will offer a different approach.
Darlene

"Dan" wrote in message
om...
Thank you for the replies. I have spent quite some time reading
Jack's finishing pages. They are full of information but I was still
fuzzy about where and how long the finishing takes. In a carboy or in
a pail, how long to wait when sweeting to taste it etc. All the
little things I can spend the whole day worring about while I wait a
few more months until the time comes



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