Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
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Default Italian Oak Barrels?

After tasting a friend's Cabernet blend I am looking forward at getting a
couple of oak barrels. One for red wine and 1 for white wine.
I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers carry
French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels. 100L
for 300$C. That price seems pretty good to me and the size sounds
practical. I can't find any info on Italian Oak. I don't kow how it
compares to American or French.

Does anyone have any expierence or has heard of Italian Oak?

Any other suggestions in getting started with an Oak Barrel will also be
appreciated.

Joe


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default Italian Oak Barrels?


"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
...
> After tasting a friend's Cabernet blend I am looking forward at getting a
> couple of oak barrels. One for red wine and 1 for white wine.
> I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers

carry
> French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
> found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels. 100L
> for 300$C. That price seems pretty good to me and the size sounds
> practical. I can't find any info on Italian Oak. I don't kow how it
> compares to American or French.


A Google search reveals that Italian oak is Quercus Frainetto, which is the
same as Hungarian oak. I didn't spot any sources on the first couple of
pages, but there was a reference to Robert Mondavi winery using Italian oak
tanks for bulk aging. Sounds good to me

> Any other suggestions in getting started with an Oak Barrel will also be
> appreciated.


Get a _new_ barrel, make sure the hoops are tight and fill it with cold
water until it stops leaking. Then empty it and immediately refill it with
wine. (Under NO circumstances should you waste your money or that expensive
new oak on so-called "barrel conditioners"!) Use a silicone rubber bung in
it, and keep the barrel topped up and the wine adequately sulfited. You
should be able to leave a Cabernet in it for at least a year without
overoaking.

Tom S


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Charles H
 
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Default Italian Oak Barrels?

Joe Ae wrote:

> I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers carry
> French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
> found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels. 100L
> for 300$C.


Watson's <www.watsons.ca> has oak barrels listed from Hungary listed at
$500 and $595 for a 'bordeaux'. I found a small 50L barrel at a local
Portuguese store, the man claimed it was Portuguese oak(Quercus faginea)
It has Chardonnay in it right now.

My first barrel was a used American. I too, would recommend new Oak,
even in a smaller 100L barrel... I think that would be a better value
oak wise anyway. HTH

N.B. I don't work for Watson's


--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
William Frazier
 
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Default Italian Oak Barrels?


"Joe Ae" > wrote in message news:R9Mqb.25796> Any
other suggestions in getting started with an Oak Barrel will also be
> appreciated.


Joe - If it can be American oak try Gibbs Brothers. They have smaller
barrels as well as the large ones. I'm using a new 10 gallon for my 2002
Baco/Chambourcin wine. It's been in the barrel 4 months now and isn't over
oaked IMO.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Glen Duff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

Joe,

I have a 55 liter medium toast Hungarian barrel that I picked up from
Watson's (Kevin Watson) at Niagara-on-the-Lake. The price was
reasonable and it was beautifully made after the squat burgundian style.

The second year of use was with my 02 Chardonnay which was just bottled
and it is a really promising Chardonnay with a nice oak level.

I would highly recommend them.

Glen Duff


Charles H wrote:

> Joe Ae wrote:
>
>
>> I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers carry
>>French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
>>found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels. 100L
>>for 300$C.
>>

>
> Watson's <www.watsons.ca> has oak barrels listed from Hungary listed at
> $500 and $595 for a 'bordeaux'. I found a small 50L barrel at a local
> Portuguese store, the man claimed it was Portuguese oak(Quercus faginea)
> It has Chardonnay in it right now.
>
> My first barrel was a used American. I too, would recommend new Oak,
> even in a smaller 100L barrel... I think that would be a better value
> oak wise anyway. HTH
>
> N.B. I don't work for Watson's
>
>
>




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

Thanks for the suggestions! I have seen Watson's website so I will call and
get more info.

From the suggestions it sounds like the barrel will be empty for some times.
It seems if you fill it with water/so2 you will lose oak flavor. If you
leave it dry, the wood may dry out and leak problems could develop.

What do you do with your oak barrels when they are not full of wine?
How long can you expect a barrel to last?

Joe


"Glen Duff" > wrote in message
...
> Joe,
>
> I have a 55 liter medium toast Hungarian barrel that I picked up from
> Watson's (Kevin Watson) at Niagara-on-the-Lake. The price was
> reasonable and it was beautifully made after the squat burgundian style.
>
> The second year of use was with my 02 Chardonnay which was just bottled
> and it is a really promising Chardonnay with a nice oak level.
>
> I would highly recommend them.
>
> Glen Duff
>
>
> Charles H wrote:
>
> > Joe Ae wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers

carry
> >>French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
> >>found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels.

100L
> >>for 300$C.
> >>

> >
> > Watson's <www.watsons.ca> has oak barrels listed from Hungary listed at
> > $500 and $595 for a 'bordeaux'. I found a small 50L barrel at a local
> > Portuguese store, the man claimed it was Portuguese oak(Quercus faginea)
> > It has Chardonnay in it right now.
> >
> > My first barrel was a used American. I too, would recommend new Oak,
> > even in a smaller 100L barrel... I think that would be a better value
> > oak wise anyway. HTH
> >
> > N.B. I don't work for Watson's
> >
> >
> >

>



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Glen Duff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

Joe,

I have found my barrels add plenty of oak for about 3 years full of wine
although it depends on the size as well, the smaller the barrel the more
oak is leached out as the surface area to volume increases in smaller
barrels.

Once the oakiness begins to diminish and you have two possibilities
other than replacing the barrel: 1) Leave the wine in it for and extra
few months or even longer with each additional year, 2) Add oak chips, I
add oak chips to my red barrel and have done so for the last few vintages.

If you use oak chips buy the best, French oak chips are available at
many home winemaking shops. The only problem is getting them out but it
isn't a big deal, just takes an extra 10 or 15 minutes once a year.

My solution to empty barrels is to avoid leaving them empty for more
than a few days. I always rack my wine into carboys and/or bottle it
directly from the barrel when the next vintage is ready.

There is plenty on caring for empty barrels, just do a search on the
newsgroup.

Cheers,

Glen Duff
-----------------

Joe Ae wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions! I have seen Watson's website so I will call and
> get more info.
>
> From the suggestions it sounds like the barrel will be empty for some times.
> It seems if you fill it with water/so2 you will lose oak flavor. If you
> leave it dry, the wood may dry out and leak problems could develop.
>
> What do you do with your oak barrels when they are not full of wine?
> How long can you expect a barrel to last?
>
> Joe
>
>
> "Glen Duff" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Joe,
>>
>>I have a 55 liter medium toast Hungarian barrel that I picked up from
>>Watson's (Kevin Watson) at Niagara-on-the-Lake. The price was
>>reasonable and it was beautifully made after the squat burgundian style.
>>
>>The second year of use was with my 02 Chardonnay which was just bottled
>>and it is a really promising Chardonnay with a nice oak level.
>>
>>I would highly recommend them.
>>
>>Glen Duff
>>
>>
>>Charles H wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Joe Ae wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers
>>>>

> carry
>
>>>>French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
>>>>found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels.
>>>>

> 100L
>
>>>>for 300$C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Watson's <www.watsons.ca> has oak barrels listed from Hungary listed at
>>>$500 and $595 for a 'bordeaux'. I found a small 50L barrel at a local
>>>Portuguese store, the man claimed it was Portuguese oak(Quercus faginea)
>>>It has Chardonnay in it right now.
>>>
>>>My first barrel was a used American. I too, would recommend new Oak,
>>>even in a smaller 100L barrel... I think that would be a better value
>>>oak wise anyway. HTH
>>>
>>>N.B. I don't work for Watson's
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>
>


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Andrew L Drumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
...
> What do you do with your oak barrels when they are not full of wine?

You should be able to buy sulphur rings from your winemaking supplier. Wash
out the barrel thoroughly, then leave it upside down to dry (at least a few
hours). Burn one sulphur ring inside it, then insert the bung firmly.

Before using again, chuck in 20-30L of very hot water, and roll the barrel
around. Then leave it on one end for an hour or so, after which you tip it
over and leave it on the other end. Empty out the water, and immediately
fill with wine.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

Thanks to everyone or the suggestions. Can't wait to get one.

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
...
> After tasting a friend's Cabernet blend I am looking forward at getting a
> couple of oak barrels. One for red wine and 1 for white wine.
> I am finding very limited options in Niagara. A couple of suppliers

carry
> French Oak 225L (990$C) ouch. Hungarian Oak Barrels. 60L ($399C) But I
> found a supplier yesterday that says he can get Italian Oak Barrels. 100L
> for 300$C. That price seems pretty good to me and the size sounds
> practical. I can't find any info on Italian Oak. I don't kow how it
> compares to American or French.
>
> Does anyone have any expierence or has heard of Italian Oak?
>
> Any other suggestions in getting started with an Oak Barrel will also be
> appreciated.
>
> Joe
>
>



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
sgbrix
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

"William Frazier" > wrote in message >...
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message news:R9Mqb.25796> Any
> other suggestions in getting started with an Oak Barrel will also be
> > appreciated.

>
> Joe - If it can be American oak try Gibbs Brothers. They have smaller
> barrels as well as the large ones. I'm using a new 10 gallon for my 2002
> Baco/Chambourcin wine. It's been in the barrel 4 months now and isn't over
> oaked IMO.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas


Just remember their 10g is actually @ 8.5g and their 5g is 5.5g. I
mean don't be surprise that one will overflow and the other you look
down the bunghole and wonder what heck happened.

Also if you get them SCHT (sap clear heavy toast) you ought to give
the barrel a hit from a rubber mallet and discard most of the burnt
wood that else will float in your wine. They are a bit rough but you
get what you pay for. I had a bad leaker and the old man from Gibbs
guided me with instruction on how to fix it. They wanted to replace it
but I did get the leaks cleared up by myself and the barrel is fine
now.

And for all those that have spouted badly about small barrel ageing, I
like to take all these extra wooden bungs I now have accumulated and
bung up their asses with them. Yea, you have to watch them, wipe them,
spray them but so what? They are like little babies, my babies!

SG Brix


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian Oak Barrels?

thanks for the info SG Brix!

"sgbrix" > wrote in message
om...
> "William Frazier" > wrote in message

>...
> > "Joe Ae" > wrote in message news:R9Mqb.25796> Any
> > other suggestions in getting started with an Oak Barrel will also be
> > > appreciated.

> >
> > Joe - If it can be American oak try Gibbs Brothers. They have smaller
> > barrels as well as the large ones. I'm using a new 10 gallon for my

2002
> > Baco/Chambourcin wine. It's been in the barrel 4 months now and isn't

over
> > oaked IMO.
> >
> > Bill Frazier
> > Olathe, Kansas

>
> Just remember their 10g is actually @ 8.5g and their 5g is 5.5g. I
> mean don't be surprise that one will overflow and the other you look
> down the bunghole and wonder what heck happened.
>
> Also if you get them SCHT (sap clear heavy toast) you ought to give
> the barrel a hit from a rubber mallet and discard most of the burnt
> wood that else will float in your wine. They are a bit rough but you
> get what you pay for. I had a bad leaker and the old man from Gibbs
> guided me with instruction on how to fix it. They wanted to replace it
> but I did get the leaks cleared up by myself and the barrel is fine
> now.
>
> And for all those that have spouted badly about small barrel ageing, I
> like to take all these extra wooden bungs I now have accumulated and
> bung up their asses with them. Yea, you have to watch them, wipe them,
> spray them but so what? They are like little babies, my babies!
>
> SG Brix



  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Banned
 
Location: Spain
Posts: 5
Default

Oak barrels are used for aging. Oak barrels are good as they are small in size and are of good quality. But I haven't heard about Italian oak barrels.

Oak Barrel | Wooden Barrel | Whiskey Barrel

Last edited by ammymorcle : 30-07-2013 at 06:44 AM
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