Would I be happy with this tester? I am just a hobbiest wine maker
making about 50 gallons a year mostly around this time each year. All
this talk about pH and acid makes me what to get a meter to help
better my winemaking. Open to your opions on the purchase of a meter!

Thanks
Andy

"Andy" > wrote:
> Would I be happy with this tester? I am just a hobbiest wine maker
> making about 50 gallons a year mostly around this time each year. All
> this talk about pH and acid makes me what to get a meter to help
> better my winemaking. Open to your opions on the purchase of a meter!

There were two recent threads in which this was discussed. A number of
people had very poor experience with the Checker1, and a few were happy with
it. But it is not really accurate enough for pH level testing, although it
is apparently ok for acid titration. You can get a model PHEP5 (made by the
same company) for about $70 (from www.piwine.com and others), and it seems
to be worth the extra investment.

>There were two recent threads in which this was discussed. A number of
>people had very poor experience with the Checker1, and a few were happy with
>it. But it is not really accurate enough for pH level testing, although it
>is apparently ok for acid titration. You can get a model PHEP5 (made by the
>same company) for about $70 (from www.piwine.com and others), and it seems
>to be worth the extra investment.
>
>
>I have both of these pH meters and frankly, they're both adequate. It gets me
to within 0.1 or 0.15 of the true value (when I check them against each other
and against themselves). It's easier to lose the top of the cheaper model
which holds in the solution between uses. After making wine for about 3 years,
I've gotten to the point where if I can get wine between 3.2 and 3.6, then any
further fine tuning seems to not make much diference (and usually screws things
up).

Lee
>

I had one and hated it, it was not reliable. I have the pHEP5 Negodki
suggests; it's a great meter for the price. You might get it a little
cheaper at grainger.com, or check the Hanna website, they run
specials.
Regards,
Joe


(Andy) wrote in message >...
> Would I be happy with this tester? I am just a hobbiest wine maker
> making about 50 gallons a year mostly around this time each year. All
> this talk about pH and acid makes me what to get a meter to help
> better my winemaking. Open to your opions on the purchase of a meter!
>
> Thanks
> Andy

Don't do it, Andy. I have one and found it worked adequately for home
winemaking when it worked, but the probes don't seem to last me more
than a year or two even when properly cleaned and stored (and I hardly
use it). From my experience they are garbage and Hanna should be
ashamed to have them on the market. I have an order out for a new
pHep5, which is supposedly vastly superior in terms of both
performance and reliability.

Richard

(Andy) wrote in message >...
> Would I be happy with this tester? I am just a hobbiest wine maker
> making about 50 gallons a year mostly around this time each year. All
> this talk about pH and acid makes me what to get a meter to help
> better my winemaking. Open to your opions on the purchase of a meter!
>
> Thanks
> Andy

Thanks for all your help, it was just what I was looking for to make
my decision.

Andy

Of course my strange woeful tale of pH meters continues... After
finding out from Presque Isle (after much prompting) that my pHep5 is
back ordered from a supplier who is also back ordered (i.e. no
delivery date in sight), I decide during a bought of insomnia to try
the Checker one more time (I had already tried calibrating it a
half-dozen times in the last month with no success). Lo and behold,
it's behaving perfectly in the wee hours of this morning...

Good timing too. The nicest thing about it is that the latest
measurements are all a fair bit different than the pre-ferment ones,
in varying directions, but the measurements all generally back up my
sensory perception (taste). Perhaps the good part of the meter being
unreliable is that I'm developing my sensory skills more, and the
ironic part is that by the time I get a reliable meter I won't need it
so badly :-)

Cheers!

Richard

(ackwik) wrote in message >...
> Thanks for all your help, it was just what I was looking for to make
> my decision.
>
> Andy

"Negodki" > wrote in message >...
> "Andy" > wrote:
> > Would I be happy with this tester? I am just a hobbiest wine maker
> > making about 50 gallons a year mostly around this time each year. All
> > this talk about pH and acid makes me what to get a meter to help
> > better my winemaking. Open to your opions on the purchase of a meter!
>
> There were two recent threads in which this was discussed. A number of
> people had very poor experience with the Checker1, and a few were happy with
> it. But it is not really accurate enough for pH level testing, although it
> is apparently ok for acid titration. You can get a model PHEP5 (made by the
> same company) for about $70 (from www.piwine.com and others), and it seems
> to be worth the extra investment.

Thought I'd throw my $.02 into this threat and share my
experience.

I have the Checker pH meter and have personally found it to be
more accurate than the literature states. True, they report its
accuracy to within +/-0.2, which isn't the greatest accuracy for us
winemakers. I understood this would be the worse case scenario and
took my chances. Bought one for about $29 on eBay.

I had an independent lab take my must and test it. After
calibration, my Checker pH meter tested the must at 3.42. The lab
tested it at 3.41 on one meter and 3.48 another, which averaged to
3.45. So, my meter was accurate to about +/-0.04, which I found
impressive!

A few things I will say about the Checker, at least mine... I need
to recalibrate it each time I turn it on and use it for one or more
tests. Also, it can take some time to settle on a reading. Sometimes
it settles on a reading within five or so minutes, other times it's
taken upwards of 20-30 minutes. I don't know why this is; perhaps
this is normal for pH meters. I have no experience with pH meters
prior to using the Checker.

This suits me fine, for the time being. When the electrode
eventually goes, I'll probably spend a bit more for a meter of higher
quality. But, if you're on a shoestring budget, are looking for a
cheap meter, and don't mind the accuracy issue (which, for me, hasn't
been an issue), I think this is a decent meter.

-Paul

(LG1111) wrote in message >...
> >There were two recent threads in which this was discussed. A number of
> >people had very poor experience with the Checker1, and a few were happy with
> >it. But it is not really accurate enough for pH level testing, although it
> >is apparently ok for acid titration. You can get a model PHEP5 (made by the
> >same company) for about $70 (from www.piwine.com and others), and it seems
> >to be worth the extra investment.
> >
> >
> >I have both of these pH meters and frankly, they're both adequate. It gets me
> to within 0.1 or 0.15 of the true value (when I check them against each other
> and against themselves). It's easier to lose the top of the cheaper model
> which holds in the solution between uses. After making wine for about 3 years,
> I've gotten to the point where if I can get wine between 3.2 and 3.6, then any
> further fine tuning seems to not make much diference (and usually screws things
> up).
>
> Lee

Tip for storing the electrode and avoiding the cap altogether:
take a butter tub (like a Fleischman's Light butter container), CLEAN
it thoroughly, and fill it with 7.0 buffer solution. Cut a crosshatch
(like a plus sign) on the top of the container and push the electrode
through it into the solution. Let it stand in the container and put
it away. Next time you want to use it, turn it on and calibrate it
for 7.0, then take it out and place it in 4.0 buffer solution,
calibrate it, then set it in your testing solution. When you're done,
rinse the electrode and push it back in the 7.0 container, put it away
and forget about it.

I hate that little black cap... it dries out too fast and, knowing
me, I'll eventually lose it!

-Paul

"Richard Kovach" > wrote:
> Of course my strange woeful tale of pH meters continues... After
> finding out from Presque Isle (after much prompting) that my pHep5 is
> back ordered from a supplier who is also back ordered (i.e. no
> delivery date in sight),....

www.grainger.com has the phep5 for the same price, and
www.grapeandgranery.com has it for a few dollars more. Of course they may be
back-ordered as well.

I love Presque Isle, but Grainger.com sells these and does not usually
run out; they have a gazillion branches...
Hanna has a website too, hannainst.com.
Regards,
Joe



(Richard Kovach) wrote in message om>...
> Of course my strange woeful tale of pH meters continues... After
> finding out from Presque Isle (after much prompting) that my pHep5 is
> back ordered from a supplier who is also back ordered (i.e. no
> delivery date in sight), I decide during a bought of insomnia to try
> the Checker one more time (I had already tried calibrating it a
> half-dozen times in the last month with no success). Lo and behold,
> it's behaving perfectly in the wee hours of this morning...
>
> Good timing too. The nicest thing about it is that the latest
> measurements are all a fair bit different than the pre-ferment ones,
> in varying directions, but the measurements all generally back up my
> sensory perception (taste). Perhaps the good part of the meter being
> unreliable is that I'm developing my sensory skills more, and the
> ironic part is that by the time I get a reliable meter I won't need it
> so badly :-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> Richard
>
> (ackwik) wrote in message >...
> > Thanks for all your help, it was just what I was looking for to make
> > my decision.
> >
> > Andy

Thanks Joe and Negodki!

I've sent an email to Hanna Canada's sales inbox, and see where they
recommend. Maybe I should register as a reseller, because I don't
know of anyone local here in Calgary who sells them and I know a few
people who are interested :-)

I also checked Grainger.com but their Canadian affiliate does not
stock any pH meters at this time :-(

I won't be ordering from Presque Isle again and wouldn't recommend it
to anyone -- at least anyone in Canada. I had to inquire several
times to find out the complete status of my order. If I remember
correctly, the web ordering mechanism I used said they would contact
me as to what shipping to use and a shipping estimate. I am also very
certain that there was nothing in the website to suggest that the
pHep5 was not in stock or may not be in stock. After several days of
nothing (other than the automated receipt I got within seconds of
submitting the order) I followed up via email. I was told it was
shipped, but not told how. Then I noticed that my credit card charges
were not for the full amount, so I inquired again to find out that the
pHep5 was not included ("back ordered" with no mention of any
estimated availability). Another inquiry got me the fact that it was
shipped UPS, as well as the tracking #. Then when the package
arrives, I find out that UPS handled the brokerage to the tune of an
extra $35-ish -- so the freight and brokerage fee ended up being more
than the cost of the first part of the order that was shipped (and
incidentally, all of that stuff was non-essential stuff that I thought
I might as well order along with the pHep5 because the prices were
reasonable and it *shouldn't* really bump up the shipping, etc.)
Meanwhile, yet one more inquiry failed to get any estimate of
availability of the meter. So it's needless to say (but worth doing
so just to blow off steam) that I cancelled the rest of the order
because I'm not interested in waiting an indeterminate period of time
just to pay nearly twice as much as I should have to.

Sorry for the rant. But I ordered from Presque Isle entirely because
of all of the positive mentions in this newsgroup, so I feel compelled
to let others know that at least in this circumstance their customer
service was a serious letdown. I've dealt with all kinds of US
suppliers over the last 15 years -- including in the "old days" of
mail order before the internet, and many of whom were as small or
smaller than Presque Isle -- and never before have I experienced this
kind of ignorance and/or disregard in terms of both working with a
customer and helping them avoid exhorbitant shipping/customs/brokerage
fees. Shoppers outside of the US, beware.

Richard

(Joe Sallustio) wrote in message . com>...
> I love Presque Isle, but Grainger.com sells these and does not usually
> run out; they have a gazillion branches...
> Hanna has a website too, hannainst.com.
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
>
> (Richard Kovach) wrote in message om>...
> > Of course my strange woeful tale of pH meters continues... After
> > finding out from Presque Isle (after much prompting) that my pHep5 is
> > back ordered from a supplier who is also back ordered (i.e. no
> > delivery date in sight), I decide during a bought of insomnia to try
> > the Checker one more time (I had already tried calibrating it a
> > half-dozen times in the last month with no success). Lo and behold,
> > it's behaving perfectly in the wee hours of this morning...
> >
> > Good timing too. The nicest thing about it is that the latest
> > measurements are all a fair bit different than the pre-ferment ones,
> > in varying directions, but the measurements all generally back up my
> > sensory perception (taste). Perhaps the good part of the meter being
> > unreliable is that I'm developing my sensory skills more, and the
> > ironic part is that by the time I get a reliable meter I won't need it
> > so badly :-)
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > (ackwik) wrote in message >...
> > > Thanks for all your help, it was just what I was looking for to make
> > > my decision.
> > >
> > > Andy

In article >,
(Richard Kovach) wrote:

> service was a serious letdown. I've dealt with all kinds of US
> suppliers over the last 15 years -- including in the "old days" of
> mail order before the internet, and many of whom were as small or
> smaller than Presque Isle -- and never before have I experienced this
> kind of ignorance and/or disregard in terms of both working with a
> customer and helping them avoid exhorbitant shipping/customs/brokerage
> fees. Shoppers outside of the US, beware.

Hmm, It seems you have quite a tough time with this order. My experience
with the folks at Presque Isle have always been positive. I'm wondering
if you tried using the telephone and talking directly to them? Your
message intimates that you were corresponding entirely by email.
Sometimes, if there is confusion, direct one to one talking makes all
the difference.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email address)

Richard Kovach wrote:

> I won't be ordering from Presque Isle again and wouldn't recommend it
> to anyone -- at least anyone in Canada.

There are plenty of sources in Canada for almost everything Presque Isle
sells. I wouldn't worry about it.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

"Greg Cook" > wrote:

> Hmm, It seems you have quite a tough time with this order. My experience
> with the folks at Presque Isle have always been positive. I'm wondering
> if you tried using the telephone and talking directly to them? Your
> message intimates that you were corresponding entirely by email.
> Sometimes, if there is confusion, direct one to one talking makes all
> the difference.

I also had problems with Presque Isle this year. They got three things wrong
on my 10-item order, and didn't respond to my emails asking them to rectify
the situation. I finally spoke to Debby Lamm, and she sent me the correct
items with apologies for the difficulties. Everything was solved before she
finally got to my emails, which gives you some idea of the backlog they are
experiencing.

They have been extremely busy this harvest season, and I think they hired
some new staff to handle it, but haven't had time to train them properly.

In my experience, they will always determine the exact shipping costs for
you before shipping your order, if you ask them to do so. They will also use
any alternate shipping method you wish, and they are very willing to accept
responsibility for errors, and correct them. UPS brokerage fees are
standard, and Presque Isle is hardly responsible for them, anymore than they
are for any Canadian Customs duties which may be assessed. It might have
been nice if they had warned you that there would be such fees, but it is
also reasonable that they might have assumed you knew what happens when you
import goods into your country, and chose to order regardless. The same
thing happens when I import goods from Canada.

Furthermore, if you were to discuss what happened with them, I suspect they
would try to do something to make up for the difficulties you experienced,
perhaps ship the Hannah without further freight charge, and by post to
alleviate the brokerage fees.

I appreciate what you're both saying. Greg, my point was that they
went ahead and shipped whatever portion they felt like, however they
felt like, without consulting me whatsoever (in spite of their
ordering mechanism leading me to believe that they would do
otherwise).

Most of my email communication was with Debbie Lam. I did inform her
of my reason for dissatisfaction in my last email when I requested
that the last part of the order be cancelled. Her entire response was
"Your backorder is cancelled." -- no apologies or offers to take any
other action to rectify the situation. Not that I was expecting any,
but this seems counter to your suspicion that they would try harder to
correct the situation.

I can appreciate that they may be swamped during this year's crush,
and I can also appreciate that they may be too accustomed to working
with customers over the phone and may not yet have come to grips with
their new web-based ordering system. But the fact that I can
sympathize with them doesn't for one second mean that I would want
anyone else to experience the frustration and needless expense that I
have. I bear no grudge against them as human beings -- I just want
people to be aware that this situation occurred, because in my mind if
it's happened once to me it could just as easily happen again to
someone else.

Anyhow, they're lucky that they seem to have built up a lot of good
will with their customer base. Hopefully incidents like this, whether
caused by growing pains or whatever, will be few in number and not
damage their reputation much before they work out the kinks.

Richard

"Negodki" > wrote in message >...
> "Greg Cook" > wrote:
>
> > Hmm, It seems you have quite a tough time with this order. My experience
> > with the folks at Presque Isle have always been positive. I'm wondering
> > if you tried using the telephone and talking directly to them? Your
> > message intimates that you were corresponding entirely by email.
> > Sometimes, if there is confusion, direct one to one talking makes all
> > the difference.
>
> I also had problems with Presque Isle this year. They got three things wrong
> on my 10-item order, and didn't respond to my emails asking them to rectify
> the situation. I finally spoke to Debby Lamm, and she sent me the correct
> items with apologies for the difficulties. Everything was solved before she
> finally got to my emails, which gives you some idea of the backlog they are
> experiencing.
>
> They have been extremely busy this harvest season, and I think they hired
> some new staff to handle it, but haven't had time to train them properly.
>
> In my experience, they will always determine the exact shipping costs for
> you before shipping your order, if you ask them to do so. They will also use
> any alternate shipping method you wish, and they are very willing to accept
> responsibility for errors, and correct them. UPS brokerage fees are
> standard, and Presque Isle is hardly responsible for them, anymore than they
> are for any Canadian Customs duties which may be assessed. It might have
> been nice if they had warned you that there would be such fees, but it is
> also reasonable that they might have assumed you knew what happens when you
> import goods into your country, and chose to order regardless. The same
> thing happens when I import goods from Canada.
>
> Furthermore, if you were to discuss what happened with them, I suspect they
> would try to do something to make up for the difficulties you experienced,
> perhaps ship the Hannah without further freight charge, and by post to
> alleviate the brokerage fees.

I have the same exact problem with PI concerning a PH meter and
shipping the wrong yeast.
Tim
> I appreciate what you're both saying. Greg, my point was that they
> went ahead and shipped whatever portion they felt like, however they
> felt like, without consulting me whatsoever (in spite of their
> ordering mechanism leading me to believe that they would do
> otherwise).
>
> Most of my email communication was with Debbie Lam. I did inform her
> of my reason for dissatisfaction in my last email when I requested
> that the last part of the order be cancelled. Her entire response was
> "Your backorder is cancelled." -- no apologies or offers to take any
> other action to rectify the situation. Not that I was expecting any,
> but this seems counter to your suspicion that they would try harder to
> correct the situation.
>
> I can appreciate that they may be swamped during this year's crush,
> and I can also appreciate that they may be too accustomed to working
> with customers over the phone and may not yet have come to grips with
> their new web-based ordering system. But the fact that I can
> sympathize with them doesn't for one second mean that I would want
> anyone else to experience the frustration and needless expense that I
> have. I bear no grudge against them as human beings -- I just want
> people to be aware that this situation occurred, because in my mind if
> it's happened once to me it could just as easily happen again to
> someone else.
>
> Anyhow, they're lucky that they seem to have built up a lot of good
> will with their customer base. Hopefully incidents like this, whether
> caused by growing pains or whatever, will be few in number and not
> damage their reputation much before they work out the kinks.
>
> Richard
>
> "Negodki" > wrote in message >...
> > "Greg Cook" > wrote:
> >
> > > Hmm, It seems you have quite a tough time with this order. My experience
> > > with the folks at Presque Isle have always been positive. I'm wondering
> > > if you tried using the telephone and talking directly to them? Your
> > > message intimates that you were corresponding entirely by email.
> > > Sometimes, if there is confusion, direct one to one talking makes all
> > > the difference.
> >
> > I also had problems with Presque Isle this year. They got three things wrong
> > on my 10-item order, and didn't respond to my emails asking them to rectify
> > the situation. I finally spoke to Debby Lamm, and she sent me the correct
> > items with apologies for the difficulties. Everything was solved before she
> > finally got to my emails, which gives you some idea of the backlog they are
> > experiencing.
> >
> > They have been extremely busy this harvest season, and I think they hired
> > some new staff to handle it, but haven't had time to train them properly.
> >
> > In my experience, they will always determine the exact shipping costs for
> > you before shipping your order, if you ask them to do so. They will also use
> > any alternate shipping method you wish, and they are very willing to accept
> > responsibility for errors, and correct them. UPS brokerage fees are
> > standard, and Presque Isle is hardly responsible for them, anymore than they
> > are for any Canadian Customs duties which may be assessed. It might have
> > been nice if they had warned you that there would be such fees, but it is
> > also reasonable that they might have assumed you knew what happens when you
> > import goods into your country, and chose to order regardless. The same
> > thing happens when I import goods from Canada.
> >
> > Furthermore, if you were to discuss what happened with them, I suspect they
> > would try to do something to make up for the difficulties you experienced,
> > perhaps ship the Hannah without further freight charge, and by post to
> > alleviate the brokerage fees.