Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 01-10-2003, 02:41 PM
Negodki
 
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Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

Dave Breeden ) wrote:

...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA values.


Dave,

1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?

2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers might
use for this procedure.

I saw a few methods described at
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=re...rect.ca&rnum=4.

Not everyone has a vacuum pump handy, but the "wine whip" sounds promising.
Still, we only need to degas the sample that we are using to test the TA/pH,
right?

Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?



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Old 01-10-2003, 04:10 PM
Clyde Gill
 
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Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA



Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?



That's about how I do it, but just use the fat of my hand to seal the flask
and shake it "not-so-gently".

After several times (no pressure builds) it gets pretty well degassed.

clyde


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Old 01-10-2003, 05:43 PM
Ed Marks
 
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Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

I've been following a procedure from a basic wine analysis video from
Southwest Missouri State Univ.: bring 100ml of distilled water to a boil in
a microwave, then pipette in 5 ml of wine - this immediately degasses the
sample - you'll visually see the CO2 being released. Then put the sample in
a cool water bath or refrig to get it to room temp before testing.

Hope that helps,

Ed


"Negodki" wrote in message
...
Dave Breeden ) wrote:

...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA values.


Dave,

1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?

2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers

might
use for this procedure.

I saw a few methods described at

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=re...rect.ca&rnum=4.

Not everyone has a vacuum pump handy, but the "wine whip" sounds

promising.
Still, we only need to degas the sample that we are using to test the

TA/pH,
right?

Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?




  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-10-2003, 05:57 PM
Negodki
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

"Clyde Gill" wrote:

That's about how I do it, but just use the fat of my hand to seal the

flask
and shake it "not-so-gently".

After several times (no pressure builds) it gets pretty well degassed.


Thanks Clyde. I have NOT been degassing my samples, which may explain why my
taste tests don't always correspond to the numbers. I shall do so in future.

I figured "shake it gently" so it doesn't spurt all over the place when I
move my thumb, but I guess it doesn't have the same amount of CO2 as a
bottle of soda pop.


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Old 02-10-2003, 06:35 AM
Joe Yudelson
 
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Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

Hi: The established chemical procedure is to boil the solution to be
titrated for about 5 min. Cool quickly and titrate.

Joe
"Negodki" wrote in message
...
Dave Breeden ) wrote:

...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA values.


Dave,

1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?

2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers

might
use for this procedure.

I saw a few methods described at

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=re...rect.ca&rnum=4.

Not everyone has a vacuum pump handy, but the "wine whip" sounds

promising.
Still, we only need to degas the sample that we are using to test the

TA/pH,
right?

Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?






  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 10:54 AM
Joe Sallustio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

I don't boil that long, I boil less than 10 seconds. I pull the
sample with a glass syringe, so the partial vacuum always indicates
whether the sample contains gas. The shorter boil seems to work for
me. I use a microwave and cool the sample in cool water before
measuring.
Regards,
Joe


"Joe Yudelson" wrote in message ...
Hi: The established chemical procedure is to boil the solution to be
titrated for about 5 min. Cool quickly and titrate.

Joe
"Negodki" wrote in message
...
Dave Breeden ) wrote:

...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA values.


Dave,

1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?

2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers

might
use for this procedure.

I saw a few methods described at

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=re...rect.ca&rnum=4.

Not everyone has a vacuum pump handy, but the "wine whip" sounds

promising.
Still, we only need to degas the sample that we are using to test the

TA/pH,
right?

Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 01:40 PM
David C Breeden
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

Negodki ) wrote:
Dave Breeden ) wrote:


...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA values.


Dave,


1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?


Yes, but wine is highly buffered (50% wine, 50% water has the same
pH reading as 100% wine), so the effect is negligible.


2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers might
use for this procedure.


Find a way to draw a vacuum, or boil the sample, or shake it until
no more Co2 froth occurs.

Dave


Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?


Yep!



--
Dave
************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden
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Old 02-10-2003, 05:56 PM
J Dixon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

Joe,
Might be my logic is off, but it seems that boiling the sample for 10
minutes would effectually concentrate the sample and alter the results of
your test. I have put my samples in the microwave usually in a water glass,
brought it to a good boil and then tested. My other method is to stir
vigorously or shake the heck out of it in a bottle.
John Dixon
"David C Breeden" wrote in message
...
Negodki ) wrote:
Dave Breeden ) wrote:


...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA

values.

Dave,


1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?


Yes, but wine is highly buffered (50% wine, 50% water has the same
pH reading as 100% wine), so the effect is negligible.


2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers

might
use for this procedure.


Find a way to draw a vacuum, or boil the sample, or shake it until
no more Co2 froth occurs.

Dave


Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?


Yep!



--
Dave

************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden




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Old 03-10-2003, 09:43 AM
Rene
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

You measure 5 ml sample, then boil. The idea is that the acids are not
volatile, it doesn't matter whether the sample afterwards is
concentrated.
I agree 10 min is abolutely not necessary for wine.

Rene.
"J Dixon" wrote in message t...
Joe,
Might be my logic is off, but it seems that boiling the sample for 10
minutes would effectually concentrate the sample and alter the results of
your test. I have put my samples in the microwave usually in a water glass,
brought it to a good boil and then tested. My other method is to stir
vigorously or shake the heck out of it in a bottle.
John Dixon
"David C Breeden" wrote in message
...
Negodki ) wrote:
Dave Breeden ) wrote:


...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA

values.

Dave,


1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?


Yes, but wine is highly buffered (50% wine, 50% water has the same
pH reading as 100% wine), so the effect is negligible.


2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers

might
use for this procedure.


Find a way to draw a vacuum, or boil the sample, or shake it until
no more Co2 froth occurs.

Dave


Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?


Yep!



--
Dave

************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden


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Old 03-10-2003, 12:54 PM
J Dixon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA

Rene,
Here's what I was thinking- you start out with let's say a cup of must
and boil 10 minutes. Now you end up with 1/2 cup after boiling and then take
your 15ml sample of must. Have you not theoretically double the acid content
per volume? I suppose if you started out with 15ml and then boiled it then
you would have the same amount of acid in the end no matter the end volume,
but I don't think that is what he was saying.
John Dixon
"Rene" wrote in message
om...
You measure 5 ml sample, then boil. The idea is that the acids are not
volatile, it doesn't matter whether the sample afterwards is
concentrated.
I agree 10 min is abolutely not necessary for wine.

Rene.
"J Dixon" wrote in message

t...
Joe,
Might be my logic is off, but it seems that boiling the sample for

10
minutes would effectually concentrate the sample and alter the results

of
your test. I have put my samples in the microwave usually in a water

glass,
brought it to a good boil and then tested. My other method is to stir
vigorously or shake the heck out of it in a bottle.
John Dixon
"David C Breeden" wrote in message
...
Negodki ) wrote:
Dave Breeden ) wrote:


...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA

values.

Dave,


1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?

Yes, but wine is highly buffered (50% wine, 50% water has the same
pH reading as 100% wine), so the effect is negligible.


2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home

winemakers
might
use for this procedure.

Find a way to draw a vacuum, or boil the sample, or shake it until
no more Co2 froth occurs.

Dave


Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer

flask
or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the

bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of

most
of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?

Yep!



--
Dave


************************************************** **************************
Dave Breeden






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Old 04-10-2003, 11:53 PM
Tom S
 
Posts: n/a
Default Removing CO2 prior to testing TA


"Negodki" wrote in message
...
Dave Breeden ) wrote:

...have you removed all the CO2? That will falsely raise your TA values.


Dave,

1) Will adsorbed CO2 distort the pH value as well, or just the TA?

2) Can you (or anyone else) suggest a few methods that home winemakers

might
use for this procedure.

I saw a few methods described at

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=re...rect.ca&rnum=4.

Not everyone has a vacuum pump handy, but the "wine whip" sounds

promising.
Still, we only need to degas the sample that we are using to test the

TA/pH,
right?

Would the following procedure work? Put the sample in an Erlenmeyer flask

or
small wine bottle, and seal it with a rubber stopper. Shake the bottle
gently. Remove the stopper slowly. Seems like this would get rid of most

of
the CO2 without any special equipment. Comments?


Just put the sample in the microwave and heat it until it just starts to
boil. The dissolved gases will all be gone.

Tom S




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