On Oct 5, 8:27 pm, jay > wrote:
> As for whites,
> Here are the WSU recommendations; Siegerrebe, Madeleine Angevine,
> Muller-Thurgau and Pinot Gris other lesser known posibilities,
> Iskorko, Burmunk , Ortega, Optima, Sylvaner, Auxerrois Blanc and if I
> consistantly get above 1900 every year...Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,
> Red Traminer ( not sure if thats the same as your Traminette...

Here is the basic info for Traminette.

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/p...raminette.html

On Oct 5, 8:51*pm, shbailey > wrote:
> On Oct 5, 8:27 pm, jay > wrote:
>
> > As for whites,
> > Here are the WSU recommendations; Siegerrebe, Madeleine Angevine,
> > Muller-Thurgau and Pinot Gris other lesser known posibilities,
> > Iskorko, *Burmunk , Ortega, Optima, Sylvaner, Auxerrois Blanc and if I
> > consistantly get above 1900 every year...Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,
> > Red Traminer ( not sure if thats the same as your Traminette...
>
> Here is the basic info for Traminette.
>
> http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/p...raminette.html


Thank you for the link, I think if I choose one white it will have to
be Siegerrebe, which is a cross of Madeleine Angevine x Gewurztraminer
and sounds very much like Traminette and is considered by many to be
the signiture white of the Puget Sound AVA...

"I think if I choose one white it will have to
be Siegerrebe, which is a cross of Madeleine Angevine x Gewurztraminer
and sounds very much like Traminette and is considered by many to be
the signiture white of the Puget Sound AVA"

Conformists make great viticulturists. You'll fit right in.


On Oct 6, 1:59*am, jay > wrote:
> On Oct 5, 8:51*pm, shbailey > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 5, 8:27 pm, jay > wrote:
>
> > > As for whites,
> > > Here are the WSU recommendations; Siegerrebe, Madeleine Angevine,
> > > Muller-Thurgau and Pinot Gris other lesser known posibilities,
> > > Iskorko, *Burmunk , Ortega, Optima, Sylvaner, Auxerrois Blanc and if I
> > > consistantly get above 1900 every year...Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,
> > > Red Traminer ( not sure if thats the same as your Traminette...
>
> > Here is the basic info for Traminette.
>
> >http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/p...raminette.html
>
> Thank you for the link, I think if I choose one white it will have to
> be Siegerrebe, which is a cross of Madeleine Angevine x Gewurztraminer
> and sounds very much like Traminette and is considered by many to be
> the signiture white of the Puget Sound AVA...

jay wrote:

> As for whites,
> Here are the WSU recommendations; Siegerrebe, Madeleine Angevine,
> Muller-Thurgau and Pinot Gris other lesser known posibilities,
> Iskorko, Burmunk , Ortega, Optima, Sylvaner, Auxerrois Blanc and if I
> consistantly get above 1900 every year...Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,
> Red Traminer ( not sure if thats the same as your Traminette...

No, Red Traminer is not the same.

As I said before, Growing Degree Days is a guide but days of sunshine and
amount of sunshine are equally as important. For example, we almost always
get the Growing Degree Days for Cabernet Sauvignon where I live, but it
does not always rippen fully even though the Growing Degree Days are there.
The reason, lack of sunshine for some years.

You said that your summers are sunny and dry so perhaps you can take that
into consideration if you want to "push the envelope" on varieties to
consider.

Here in Northern Virginia and Central Maryland, The following harvest days
(give or take a few days on either side, of course) are, Pinot Gris usually
harvested around September 7th, Traminette is usually harvested around
September 20 and Chardonnay around September 25th.

So, it would seem that if Pinot Gris is a recommended variety and Chardonnay
is on the extreme end of your possible growing season, that Traminette
being in the middle, might very well fit it.

This is just something to consider. It sounds like you have plenty of room
and Traminette can be grown self rooted, has beautiful clusters, produces
ideal chemistries for wine production. It is one of the easiest wines I
make; simply pick, crush, press and ferment; no additions of anything
needed.

On Oct 6, 5:33*am, wrote:
> "I think if I choose one white it will have to
> be Siegerrebe, which is a cross of Madeleine Angevine x Gewurztraminer
> and sounds very much like Traminette and is considered by many to be
> the signiture white of the Puget Sound AVA"
>
> Conformists make great viticulturists. You'll fit right in.
>
> On Oct 6, 1:59*am, jay > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 5, 8:51*pm, shbailey > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 5, 8:27 pm, jay > wrote:
>
> > > > As for whites,
> > > > Here are the WSU recommendations; Siegerrebe, Madeleine Angevine,
> > > > Muller-Thurgau and Pinot Gris other lesser known posibilities,
> > > > Iskorko, *Burmunk , Ortega, Optima, Sylvaner, Auxerrois Blanc and if I
> > > > consistantly get above 1900 every year...Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,
> > > > Red Traminer ( not sure if thats the same as your Traminette...
>
> > > Here is the basic info for Traminette.
>
> > >http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/p...raminette.html
>
> > Thank you for the link, I think if I choose one white it will have to
> > be Siegerrebe, which is a cross of Madeleine Angevine x Gewurztraminer
> > and sounds very much like Traminette and is considered by many to be
> > the signiture white of the Puget Sound AVA...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help
work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,

though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must also
think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency ,
the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and
growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a
way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to be
known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that
identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year
history in the Puget Sound and is part of what Identity it has....it
is grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and
makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is
known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some
hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and
call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever
small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to
make wine by the barrel.

In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I do think that some
hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines
that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great
wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial
Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally
made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and of
course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something
consumers know and like....
Jason

Paul,
We were writing at the same time so I missed your comment, I
appreciate the recommendation and definately will consider it,
I might see what I can ripen, steve at hollywood hills thinks Pinot
Gris might be borderline for 1900 so I might try it first, but if it
is as great as you say it is
I might have to look into it....I think I might have to drink some
white wine before I start growing and making it...to see what I like.

We have long days of light in the summers its light at 10:00 at night
at my old house in Dupont.... so that may be why recommendations for
WA viticulture are often done by temp it might be more of a limiting
factor

A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help
work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,

though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
also
think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency ,
the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and
growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a
way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to
be
known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that
identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year
history in the Puget Sound and is part of what Identity it has....it
is grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and
makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is
known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some
hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and
call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever
small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to
make wine by the barrel.


In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I do think that some
hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines
that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great
wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial
Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally
made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and
of
course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something
consumers know and like....

but then again all this is easy for me to say sitting here and not in
the trenches yet
Jason

Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
WA..

Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier
like
it does a hybrid like regent and then it can hang outin the october
fog for longer as a resistant hybrid?....the next question is can I
find it in
WA..

well I checked cloudmountain farms and inland desert nursery they dont
have it, cloud mountain might be able to get it if I call, when do the
nurseries "calm down" I don't want to be bothering them about orders
for next year when they are trying to keep up with current ones.

On Oct 6, 8:19*am, jay > wrote:
> well I checked cloudmountain farms and inland desert nursery they dont
> have it, cloud mountain might be able to get it if I call, when do the
> nurseries "calm down" I don't want to be bothering them about orders
> for next year when they are trying to keep up with current ones.

by the way I checked out the Holywood Hills websight and they
completely sold out their first Regent vintage in only a few months
after it came out and its a german hybrid with a funny name!!! there
is hope in the world!

by the way I checked out the Holywood Hills websight and they
completely sold out their first Regent vintage in only a few months
after it came out and its a german hybrid with a funny name!!! there
is hope in the world!

I also found that he is ripening Chardonnay which ripens later and is
less disease reisistant then Traminette ...I wonder how I could get
some.

jay wrote:

> Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?

Yes, it is a hybrid.

> Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
> selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
> it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
> WA..

I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York State
also where it was developed at Cornell University.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette

I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it from
out of state.

On Oct 6, 11:36*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
wrote:
> jay wrote:
> > Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
>
> Yes, it is a hybrid.
>
> > Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
> > selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
> > it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
> > WA..
>
> I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York State
> also where it was developed at Cornell University.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette
>
> I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it from
> out of state.

diseased material is quarintined, pests are quarintined I doesnt seem
that there are any laws bringing plant material in, but to be
registered as planting stock it needs to be inspected and certified.

jay wrote:

> On Oct 6, 11:36Â*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
> wrote:
>> jay wrote:
>> > Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
>>
>> Yes, it is a hybrid.
>>
>> > Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
>> > selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
>> > it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
>> > WA..
>>
>> I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York
>> State also where it was developed at Cornell University.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette
>>
>> I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it
>> from out of state.
>
> diseased material is quarintined, pests are quarintined I doesnt seem
> that there are any laws bringing plant material in, but to be
> registered as planting stock it needs to be inspected and certified.

I checked out one nursery supplying Traminette and they stated they could
not ship to Washington State. There may be other sources though.

At least from this thread, I have learned a little about Regent. IF only I
had more room to plant, I might try this variety here in Maryland. I don't
think anyone is growing it out here.

On Oct 6, 4:26*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> jay wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 11:36*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
> > wrote:
> >> jay wrote:
> >> > Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
>
> >> Yes, it is a hybrid.
>
> >> > Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
> >> > selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
> >> > it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
> >> > WA..
>
> >> I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York
> >> State also where it was developed at Cornell University.
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette
>
> >> I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it
> >> from out of state.
>
> > diseased material is quarintined, pests are quarintined I doesnt seem
> > that there are any laws bringing plant material in, but to be
> > registered as planting stock it needs to be inspected and certified.
>
> I checked out one nursery supplying Traminette and they stated they could
> not ship to Washington State. *There may be other sources though.
>
> At least from this thread, I have learned a little about Regent. *IF only I
> had more room to plant, I might try this variety here in Maryland. *I don't
> think anyone is growing it out here.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yeah I will keep looking , I think I will at the very least plant a
few to see if the it can be ripened, and compare it to Siegerrebe as
far as disease resistance, thanks guys for the recommendation.

Yeah, I called it a hybrid, but this and Rondo are actually considered
vinifera since the germans breed out the cross to 1/8th

Yeah, I called it a hybrid, but this and Rondo are actually
considered
vinifera since the germans bred out the cross to 1/8th ...check out
Rondo as well
another German "hybrid" half St Laurent which is thought to be a Pinot
sprout.

On Oct 6, 6:26 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> jay wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 11:36 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
> > wrote:
> >> jay wrote:
> >> > Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
>
> >> Yes, it is a hybrid.
>
> >> > Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
> >> > selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
> >> > it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
> >> > WA..
>
> >> I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York
> >> State also where it was developed at Cornell University.
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette
>
> >> I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it
> >> from out of state.
>
> > diseased material is quarintined, pests are quarintined I doesnt seem
> > that there are any laws bringing plant material in, but to be
> > registered as planting stock it needs to be inspected and certified.
>
> I checked out one nursery supplying Traminette and they stated they could
> not ship to Washington State. There may be other sources though.
>
> At least from this thread, I have learned a little about Regent. IF only I
> had more room to plant, I might try this variety here in Maryland. I don't
> think anyone is growing it out here.

Here is some info on Regent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_(grape)

It is half Chambourcin. Reports from the diverse locations of Texas
and New Hampshire both note it as even more disease resistant than
Chambourcin. Initial indications are that the wine is best in cooler
climates than Texas, but the data is limited.

"It is half Chambourcin. Reports from the diverse locations of Texas
and New Hampshire both note it as even more disease resistant than
Chambourcin."

Chambourcin is not that disease resistant. It wouldn't be hard to be
more disease resistant than Chambourcin.

On Oct 6, 9:17*pm, shbailey > wrote:
> On Oct 6, 6:26 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > jay wrote:
> > > On Oct 6, 11:36 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
> > > wrote:
> > >> jay wrote:
> > >> > Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
>
> > >> Yes, it is a hybrid.
>
> > >> > Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
> > >> > selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like
> > >> > it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in
> > >> > WA..
>
> > >> I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York
> > >> State also where it was developed at Cornell University.
>
> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette
>
> > >> I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it
> > >> from out of state.
>
> > > diseased material is quarintined, pests are quarintined I doesnt seem
> > > that there are any laws bringing plant material in, but to be
> > > registered as planting stock it needs to be inspected and certified.
>
> > I checked out one nursery supplying Traminette and they stated they could
> > not ship to Washington State. *There may be other sources though.
>
> > At least from this thread, I have learned a little about Regent. *IF only I
> > had more room to plant, I might try this variety here in Maryland. *I don't
> > think anyone is growing it out here.
>
> Here is some info on Regent:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_(grape)
>
> It is half Chambourcin. *Reports from the diverse locations of Texas
> and New Hampshire both note it as even more disease resistant than
> Chambourcin. *Initial indications are that the wine is best in cooler
> climates than Texas, but the data is limited.

"though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
also think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and
consistency , the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its
identity and growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random
way is in a way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it
needs to be known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to
that identity by celebrating its heritage,"

So accoring to you Steve from Hollywood Hills may be the most selfish
man in the Puget Sound area! Why do you keep going to him for advice?
Did he check with everyone before bringing in Regent? Like I said ,
you'd make a classic viticultuist. Circular logic is your specialty.

On Oct 6, 9:55*am, jay > wrote:
> A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help
> work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,
>
> though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> also
> think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency ,
> the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and
> growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a
> way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to
> be
> known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that
> identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year
> history in the Puget Sound and is part of what *Identity it has....it
> is *grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and
> makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is
> known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some
> hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and
> call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever
> small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to
> make wine by the barrel.
>
> *In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I *do think that some
> hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines
> that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great
> wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial
> Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally
> made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and
> of
> course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something
> consumers know and like....
>
> but then again all this is easy for me to say sitting here and not in
> the trenches yet
> Jason

On Oct 7, 3:45*am, wrote:
> "though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> also think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and
> consistency , the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its
> identity and growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random
> way is in a way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it
> needs to be known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to
> that identity by celebrating its heritage,"
>
> So accoring to you Steve from Hollywood Hills may be the most selfish
> man in the Puget Sound area! Why do you keep going to him for advice?
> Did he check with everyone before bringing in Regent? Like I said ,
> you'd make a classic viticultuist. Circular logic is your specialty.
>
> On Oct 6, 9:55*am, jay > wrote:
>
>
>
> > A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help
> > work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,
>
> > though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> > also
> > think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency ,
> > the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and
> > growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a
> > way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to
> > be
> > known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that
> > identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year
> > history in the Puget Sound and is part of what *Identity it has....it
> > is *grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and
> > makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is
> > known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some
> > hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and
> > call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever
> > small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to
> > make wine by the barrel.
>
> > *In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I *do think that some
> > hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines
> > that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great
> > wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial
> > Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally
> > made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and
> > of
> > course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something
> > consumers know and like....
>
> > but then again all this is easy for me to say sitting here and not in
> > the trenches yet
> > Jason- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

actually the above reasoning is his and why he recommends Siegerrebe
and Mad Ang as the white grapes I should grow the words aren't his...
the words are mine...his words were that thats what people grow here,
and I know he is working towards developing a regional Identity from
other literature he has written about the Puget Sound and honing in on
regionally recognized grapes....nice try Bob keep up the name calling
its entertaining.

What grapesare the Finger Lakes viticulture identity based upon?

On Oct 7, 8:49*am, jay > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 3:45*am, wrote:
>
>
>
> > "though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> > also think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and
> > consistency , the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its
> > identity and growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random
> > way is in a way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it
> > needs to be known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to
> > that identity by celebrating its heritage,"
>
> > So accoring to you Steve from Hollywood Hills may be the most selfish
> > man in the Puget Sound area! Why do you keep going to him for advice?
> > Did he check with everyone before bringing in Regent? Like I said ,
> > you'd make a classic viticultuist. Circular logic is your specialty.
>
> > On Oct 6, 9:55*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > > A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help
> > > work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,
>
> > > though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> > > also
> > > think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency ,
> > > the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and
> > > growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a
> > > way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to
> > > be
> > > known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that
> > > identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year
> > > history in the Puget Sound and is part of what *Identity it has....it
> > > is *grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and
> > > makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is
> > > known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some
> > > hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and
> > > call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever
> > > small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to
> > > make wine by the barrel.
>
> > > *In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I *do think that some
> > > hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines
> > > that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great
> > > wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial
> > > Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally
> > > made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and
> > > of
> > > course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something
> > > consumers know and like....
>
> > > but then again all this is easy for me to say sitting here and not in
> > > the trenches yet
> > > Jason- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> actually the above reasoning is his and why he recommends Siegerrebe
> and Mad Ang as the white grapes I should grow the words aren't his...
> the words are mine...his words were that thats what people grow here,
> and I know he is working towards developing a regional Identity from
> other literature he has written about the Puget Sound and honing in on
> regionally recognized grapes....nice try Bob keep up the name calling
> its entertaining.

A little word of advise to anyone wanting to start a vineyard. Beware
of anyone in the area trying to talk you into growing what they are
growing because of regional identity. That may be the most selfish act
of all. Instead of encouraging you to branch out and explore different
varities they discourage it. Lots of ego's at work in the industry
disguised as "regional identity". The last thing they want is for you
to show them up or be regarded as the vineyard that brought the "new"
grape to the area. Being the first is a big deal with these insecure
people. Just check out how proud Steve is about being the pioneer of
Regent. Once a vineyard is planted it's not likely yo be dug up and
planted with other vines. If Traimanette took kindly to the Puget
Sound area and blew the doors off the "regional identity grapes",
there would be many bitter people in the area.


On Oct 7, 10:01*am, wrote:
> What grapesare the Finger Lakes viticulture identity based upon?
>
> On Oct 7, 8:49*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 7, 3:45*am, wrote:
>
> > > "though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> > > also think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and
> > > consistency , the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its
> > > identity and growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random
> > > way is in a way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it
> > > needs to be known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to
> > > that identity by celebrating its heritage,"
>
> > > So accoring to you Steve from Hollywood Hills may be the most selfish
> > > man in the Puget Sound area! Why do you keep going to him for advice?
> > > Did he check with everyone before bringing in Regent? Like I said ,
> > > you'd make a classic viticultuist. Circular logic is your specialty.
>
> > > On Oct 6, 9:55*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > > > A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help
> > > > work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,
>
> > > > though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must
> > > > also
> > > > think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency ,
> > > > the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and
> > > > growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a
> > > > way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to
> > > > be
> > > > known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that
> > > > identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year
> > > > history in the Puget Sound and is part of what *Identity it has.....it
> > > > is *grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and
> > > > makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is
> > > > known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some
> > > > hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and
> > > > call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever
> > > > small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to
> > > > make wine by the barrel.
>
> > > > *In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I *do think that some
> > > > hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines
> > > > that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great
> > > > wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial
> > > > Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally
> > > > made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and
> > > > of
> > > > course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something
> > > > consumers know and like....
>
> > > > but then again all this is easy for me to say sitting here and not in
> > > > the trenches yet
> > > > Jason- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > actually the above reasoning is his and why he recommends Siegerrebe
> > and Mad Ang as the white grapes I should grow the words aren't his...
> > the words are mine...his words were that thats what people grow here,
> > and I know he is working towards developing a regional Identity from
> > other literature he has written about the Puget Sound and honing in on
> > regionally recognized grapes....nice try Bob keep up the name calling
> > its entertaining.

Nobody needs to worry about me for competition,
I have found that every single person that grows wine commercially or
for themselves to be extremely helpful, open, friendly
enthusiastic, encouraging, supportive and intellegent people with the
exception of one person.
thank you help!

So the Puget Sound is striving to have the identity of the German
hybrid viticultural capital of the US?


On Oct 7, 1:34*pm, jay > wrote:
> Nobody needs to worry about me for competition,
> I have found that every single person that grows wine commercially or
> for themselves to be extremely helpful, open, friendly
> enthusiastic, encouraging, supportive and intellegent people with the
> exception of one person.
> thank you help!

Jay,

Go back and read the first post in this thread. It's very revealing.


On Oct 7, 2:30*pm, wrote:
> So the Puget Sound is striving to have the identity of the German
> hybrid viticultural capital of the US?
>
> On Oct 7, 1:34*pm, jay > wrote:
>
> > Nobody needs to worry about me for competition,
> > I have found that every single person that grows wine commercially or
> > for themselves to be extremely helpful, open, friendly
> > enthusiastic, encouraging, supportive and intellegent people with the
> > exception of one person.
> > thank you help!

wrote:

> "It is half Chambourcin. Reports from the diverse locations of Texas
> and New Hampshire both note it as even more disease resistant than
> Chambourcin."
>
> Chambourcin is not that disease resistant. It wouldn't be hard to be
> more disease resistant than Chambourcin.

That has been my experience also.


>
> On Oct 6, 9:17Â*pm, shbailey > wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 6:26 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > jay wrote:
>> > > On Oct 6, 11:36 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >> jay wrote:
>> > >> > Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right?
>>
>> > >> Yes, it is a hybrid.
>>
>> > >> > Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few
>> > >> > selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier
>> > >> > like it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I
>> > >> > find it in WA..
>>
>> > >> I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New
>> > >> York State also where it was developed at Cornell University.
>>
>> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traminette
>>
>> > >> I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing
>> > >> it from out of state.
>>
>> > > diseased material is quarintined, pests are quarintined I doesnt seem
>> > > that there are any laws bringing plant material in, but to be
>> > > registered as planting stock it needs to be inspected and certified.
>>
>> > I checked out one nursery supplying Traminette and they stated they
>> > could not ship to Washington State. Â*There may be other sources though.
>>
>> > At least from this thread, I have learned a little about Regent. Â*IF
>> > only I had more room to plant, I might try this variety here in
>> > Maryland. Â*I don't think anyone is growing it out here.
>>
>> Here is some info on Regent:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_(grape)
>>
>> It is half Chambourcin. Â*Reports from the diverse locations of Texas
>> and New Hampshire both note it as even more disease resistant than
>> Chambourcin. Â*Initial indications are that the wine is best in cooler
>> climates than Texas, but the data is limited.

I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
they suggested I try Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
have a clue about.
some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
"ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me). I
am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
before planting anything more.

as for now my new plan

5x7 spacing

35 Regent
35 Rondo
70 Pinot Noir
35 St L.
35 Zweigelt
35 Agria
one row of various whites

Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.

wrote:

> Jeff Cox's book is a dinousaur when it comes to viticulture ( growing,
> not pruning or winemaking). Tramminette is a great wine and
> viticulturally very easy to grow. I would change the spacing to 4 X 8
> so you can put a vehicle down the middle of the rows. Also, at 4X8 you
> have more vines which you can crop at lower levels which will increase
> brix, especially if you mulch. Notice 4X8 is only one square foot
> bigger than 7X5 but functionally it is a huge difference. Like I said,
> thru pruning, you can shrink the load on each vine if ripening is a
> problem which, I have a feeling, it won't be.
>
> . On Oct 8, 12:47Â*am, jay > wrote:

Agree, 4X8 is a good spacing
At this spacing the vines can be either cordon-spur pruned or cane pruned
without having excessively long canes.


>> I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
>> they suggested I try Â*Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
>> have a clue about.
>> some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
>> they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
>> "ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
>> and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
>> and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
>> grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
>> so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
>> resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
>> I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
>> Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
>> where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me). I
>> am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
>> before planting anything more.
>>
>> as for now my new plan
>>
>> 5x7 spacing
>>
>> 35 Regent
>> 35 Rondo
>> 70 Pinot Noir
>> 35 St L.
>> 35 Zweigelt
>> 35 Agria
>> one row of various whites
>>
>> Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
>> out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
>> and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.

Jeff Cox's book is a dinousaur when it comes to viticulture ( growing,
not pruning or winemaking). Tramminette is a great wine and
viticulturally very easy to grow. I would change the spacing to 4 X 8
so you can put a vehicle down the middle of the rows. Also, at 4X8 you
have more vines which you can crop at lower levels which will increase
brix, especially if you mulch. Notice 4X8 is only one square foot
bigger than 7X5 but functionally it is a huge difference. Like I said,
thru pruning, you can shrink the load on each vine if ripening is a
problem which, I have a feeling, it won't be.

.. On Oct 8, 12:47*am, jay > wrote:
> I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
> they suggested I try *Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
> have a clue about.
> some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
> they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
> "ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
> and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
> and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
> grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
> so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
> resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
> I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
> Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
> where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me). I
> am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
> before planting anything more.
>
> as for now my new plan
>
> 5x7 spacing
>
> 35 Regent
> 35 Rondo
> 70 Pinot Noir
> 35 St L.
> 35 Zweigelt
> 35 Agria
> one row of various whites
>
> Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
> out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
> and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.

On Oct 8, 5:37*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Jeff Cox's book is a dinousaur when it comes to viticulture ( growing,
> > not pruning or winemaking). Tramminette is a great wine and
> > viticulturally very easy to grow. I would change the spacing to 4 X 8
> > so you can put a vehicle down the middle of the rows. Also, at 4X8 you
> > have more vines which you can crop at lower levels which will increase
> > brix, especially if you mulch. Notice 4X8 is only one square foot
> > bigger than 7X5 but functionally it is a huge difference. Like I said,
> > thru pruning, you can shrink the load on each vine if ripening is a
> > problem which, I have a feeling, it won't be.
>
> > . On Oct 8, 12:47*am, jay > wrote:
>
> Agree, 4X8 is a good spacing
> At this spacing the vines can be either cordon-spur pruned or cane pruned
> without having excessively long canes.
>
>
>
> >> I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
> >> they suggested I try *Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
> >> have a clue about.
> >> some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
> >> they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
> >> "ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
> >> and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
> >> and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
> >> grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
> >> so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
> >> resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
> >> I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
> >> Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
> >> where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me). I
> >> am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
> >> before planting anything more.
>
> >> as for now my new plan
>
> >> 5x7 spacing
>
> >> 35 Regent
> >> 35 Rondo
> >> 70 Pinot Noir
> >> 35 St L.
> >> 35 Zweigelt
> >> 35 Agria
> >> one row of various whites
>
> >> Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
> >> out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
> >> and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

ok, adjustment made...thanks for the good advise

Paul,
How do you compare the wine you make from Traminette, its ease to
vinify quality etc from its parent Gewurztraminer. Appararantly
Gewurtraminer
is easy to grow organically or otherwise in the Puget Sound so the
locals I asked about Traminette...just said grow Gewurtraminer.
Jason

From a web link.

"Gewürztraminer has a trailing growth habit,
and if planted on deep, fertile soils it may be
vigorous depending on training and prun-
ing. It is prone to poor fruit set, and thus is
considered to be low yielding. Widely spaced
rows should be avoided if possible in order
to increase planting density and yield per
acre. Gewürztraminer’s early budbreak makes
it sensitive to frost.
"
"Gewürztraminer is not a highly productive vari-
ety since it is prone to coulure. Yields can vary
considerably from year to year"

"Gewürztraminer’s short bunch stem
makes hand harvesting difficult. "

"Gewürztraminer’s small, tight clusters make it
susceptible to Botrytis bunch rot. Older vine-
yards commonly carry virus disease"

Besides that is seems like a good grape.

On Oct 8, 10:52*am, jay > wrote:
> On Oct 8, 5:37*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > > Jeff Cox's book is a dinousaur when it comes to viticulture ( growing,
> > > not pruning or winemaking). Tramminette is a great wine and
> > > viticulturally very easy to grow. I would change the spacing to 4 X 8
> > > so you can put a vehicle down the middle of the rows. Also, at 4X8 you
> > > have more vines which you can crop at lower levels which will increase
> > > brix, especially if you mulch. Notice 4X8 is only one square foot
> > > bigger than 7X5 but functionally it is a huge difference. Like I said,
> > > thru pruning, you can shrink the load on each vine if ripening is a
> > > problem which, I have a feeling, it won't be.
>
> > > . On Oct 8, 12:47*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > Agree, 4X8 is a good spacing
> > At this spacing the vines can be either cordon-spur pruned or cane pruned
> > without having excessively long canes.
>
> > >> I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
> > >> they suggested I try *Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
> > >> have a clue about.
> > >> some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
> > >> they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
> > >> "ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
> > >> and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
> > >> and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
> > >> grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
> > >> so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
> > >> resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
> > >> I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
> > >> Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
> > >> where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me). I
> > >> am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
> > >> before planting anything more.
>
> > >> as for now my new plan
>
> > >> 5x7 spacing
>
> > >> 35 Regent
> > >> 35 Rondo
> > >> 70 Pinot Noir
> > >> 35 St L.
> > >> 35 Zweigelt
> > >> 35 Agria
> > >> one row of various whites
>
> > >> Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
> > >> out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
> > >> and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ok, adjustment made...thanks for the good advise
>
> Paul,
> *How do you compare *the wine you make from Traminette, its ease to
> vinify quality etc from its parent Gewurztraminer. Appararantly
> Gewurtraminer
> is easy to grow organically or otherwise in the Puget Sound so the
> locals I asked about Traminette...just said grow Gewurtraminer.
> Jason

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/f...raminette.html

Almost the exact opposite. Late bud break, disease resistant, bigger
clusters, moderately early harvest, cold hardy, big producer.



On Oct 8, 11:14*am, wrote:
> From a web link.
>
> "Gewürztraminer has a trailing growth habit,
> and if planted on deep, fertile soils it may be
> vigorous depending on training and prun-
> ing. It is prone to poor fruit set, and thus is
> considered to be low yielding. Widely spaced
> rows should be avoided if possible in order
> to increase planting density and yield per
> acre. Gewürztraminer’s early budbreak makes
> it sensitive to frost.
> "
> "Gewürztraminer is not a highly productive vari-
> ety since it is prone to coulure. Yields can vary
> considerably from year to year"
>
> "Gewürztraminer’s short bunch stem
> makes hand harvesting difficult. "
>
> "Gewürztraminer’s small, tight clusters make it
> susceptible to Botrytis bunch rot. Older vine-
> yards commonly carry virus disease"
>
> Besides that is seems like a good grape.
>
> On Oct 8, 10:52*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 8, 5:37*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Jeff Cox's book is a dinousaur when it comes to viticulture ( growing,
> > > > not pruning or winemaking). Tramminette is a great wine and
> > > > viticulturally very easy to grow. I would change the spacing to 4 X 8
> > > > so you can put a vehicle down the middle of the rows. Also, at 4X8 you
> > > > have more vines which you can crop at lower levels which will increase
> > > > brix, especially if you mulch. Notice 4X8 is only one square foot
> > > > bigger than 7X5 but functionally it is a huge difference. Like I said,
> > > > thru pruning, you can shrink the load on each vine if ripening is a
> > > > problem which, I have a feeling, it won't be.
>
> > > > . On Oct 8, 12:47*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > > Agree, 4X8 is a good spacing
> > > At this spacing the vines can be either cordon-spur pruned or cane pruned
> > > without having excessively long canes.
>
> > > >> I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
> > > >> they suggested I try *Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
> > > >> have a clue about.
> > > >> some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
> > > >> they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
> > > >> "ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
> > > >> and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
> > > >> and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
> > > >> grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
> > > >> so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
> > > >> resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
> > > >> I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
> > > >> Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
> > > >> where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me).. I
> > > >> am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
> > > >> before planting anything more.
>
> > > >> as for now my new plan
>
> > > >> 5x7 spacing
>
> > > >> 35 Regent
> > > >> 35 Rondo
> > > >> 70 Pinot Noir
> > > >> 35 St L.
> > > >> 35 Zweigelt
> > > >> 35 Agria
> > > >> one row of various whites
>
> > > >> Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
> > > >> out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
> > > >> and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > ok, adjustment made...thanks for the good advise
>
> > Paul,
> > *How do you compare *the wine you make from Traminette, its ease to
> > vinify quality etc from its parent Gewurztraminer. Appararantly
> > Gewurtraminer
> > is easy to grow organically or otherwise in the Puget Sound so the
> > locals I asked about Traminette...just said grow Gewurtraminer.
> > Jason

Well, apparently the people that grow it , make wine from it here just
dandy, just doesn't sell cause the locals buy the Siegerrebe and the
average consumer rather buy Pinot Gris or Chard.

It might not sell because it may be too expensive if the yeilds aren't
that high, you lose fruit due to frost and you're spending money
spraying it all season. If it didn't sell, then rename it something
like "Summer Frost".



On Oct 8, 11:21*am, jay > wrote:
> Well, apparently the people that grow it , make wine from it here just
> dandy, just doesn't sell cause the locals buy the Siegerrebe and the
> average consumer rather buy Pinot Gris or Chard.

jay wrote:

> On Oct 8, 5:37Â*am, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > Jeff Cox's book is a dinousaur when it comes to viticulture ( growing,
>> > not pruning or winemaking). Tramminette is a great wine and
>> > viticulturally very easy to grow. I would change the spacing to 4 X 8
>> > so you can put a vehicle down the middle of the rows. Also, at 4X8 you
>> > have more vines which you can crop at lower levels which will increase
>> > brix, especially if you mulch. Notice 4X8 is only one square foot
>> > bigger than 7X5 but functionally it is a huge difference. Like I said,
>> > thru pruning, you can shrink the load on each vine if ripening is a
>> > problem which, I have a feeling, it won't be.
>>
>> > . On Oct 8, 12:47Â*am, jay > wrote:
>>
>> Agree, 4X8 is a good spacing
>> At this spacing the vines can be either cordon-spur pruned or cane pruned
>> without having excessively long canes.
>>
>>
>>
>> >> I talked to a few nurseries that will ship Traminette to WA,
>> >> they suggested I try Â*Cayuga and Seyval Blanc ...more whites I don't
>> >> have a clue about.
>> >> some of the Vineyard / Nurseries say its doesn't ripen before Chard,
>> >> they were actually very unclear about the whole thing, saying it
>> >> "ripens early september" knowing they are in MO or TN, and I am in WA
>> >> and then I would ask well how does that compare to Pinot Gris or Chard
>> >> and they would say "early september", I also found out that the Chard
>> >> grown here is cl 76 which apparently ripens a week before other clones
>> >> so Traminette might ripen at the same time but if it is more disease
>> >> resistant and makes great wine I should give it a try.
>> >> I think I am going to plant just couple vines each of Traminette,
>> >> Pinot Gris, and Sieggerebbe to see how they grow, produce and ripen
>> >> where I am. I guess I'll start drinking some white wine(woe is me). I
>> >> am going to cut all my vines numbers down to enough for 20G batches
>> >> before planting anything more.
>>
>> >> as for now my new plan
>>
>> >> 5x7 spacing
>>
>> >> 35 Regent
>> >> 35 Rondo
>> >> 70 Pinot Noir
>> >> 35 St L.
>> >> 35 Zweigelt
>> >> 35 Agria
>> >> one row of various whites
>>
>> >> Rambough says don't bother getting a soil analyasis and mulch the heck
>> >> out of your planting sight, Jeff Cox says follow your soil analysis
>> >> and don't mulch unless you have almost no organic matter.- Hide quoted
>> >> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> ok, adjustment made...thanks for the good advise
>
> Paul,
> How do you compare the wine you make from Traminette, its ease to
> vinify quality etc from its parent Gewurztraminer. Appararantly
> Gewurtraminer
> is easy to grow organically or otherwise in the Puget Sound so the
> locals I asked about Traminette...just said grow Gewurtraminer.
> Jason

I worked at a vineyard that grew Gewurtraminer. This particular vineyard
had problems growing it. It was prone to rot. One other vineyard I know
that grows it claims it is not too much of a problem for them. They grow
it on close spacing and cane prune. You can also grow it own rooted so it
is easy to propagate

I like the bouquet and taste a lot better in Traminette and it produces very
well with big clusters, good sugars and the grower I buy from about 10
miles from me does not have problems growing it. Of course, being in the
humid and wet Mid Atlantic spraying is still necessary.

Well Paul, if you say the wine is better I am going to give Traminette
a shot, see how it goes, that plus Siegerrebe and some Pinot Gris,
Just curious where did you work that grew Gewurtaminer??

jay wrote:

> Well Paul, if you say the wine is better I am going to give Traminette
> a shot, see how it goes, that plus Siegerrebe and some Pinot Gris,
> Just curious where did you work that grew Gewurtaminer??

I worked at Windham Winery, now called Doukenie Winery
http://www.doukenie.com/

The winery that does not seem to have a problem growing Gewurtz is Elk Run
Winery
http://www.elkrun.com/

Doukenie grew their Gewurtz on 6 foot spaced Cordon Spur pruned vines
Elk grows theirs on 3 feet spaced cane pruned vines.

The trend around here now is short spacing and cane pruning.

The theory goes that the can pruned vines have less old wood for the fungi
to overwinter. Some growers claim it has cut down their disease problems a
LOT.

Thanks Paul !!!, it seems alot of growers in the puget sound cane
prune as well...well in a few years I might be asking you for
Traminette vinification tips!