the known is for the commercial side.
the "other" is for the passion.

I love Carmenere, Petite Verdot, Malbec, and Tannat. I make wine with
them for me.
I am VERY good at making Merlot, but I love a red blend with Cab Sauv,
blended with Merlot and Malbec.

Yet,
I am sipping a glass of Chardonnay I made. Pretty darn good for a
Chardonnay. crisp, clean, citrusy, wit enough flavor to have body and
a finish. but, no oak, smoke, butter, vanilla, just the concentrated
flavors from the grape.
my pinot gris sold out in 6 weeks.
we don't grow or make it here according to the experts, but the pinot
noir i made? wish i had more. did not save enough to my personal
cellar.
but, can ship you several "extra" cases of wine I made in my early
years. care for a case of cab franc made from grapes with green seeds?

in other words,
there are wines i make for those willing to share their spending money
with me.
and there are wines i make for me.

you have to weigh the cost of these decisions for yourself.

grow the the wines you can sell for the winery
grow the wines you want to drink for yourself

everything else is chatter

ted


On Oct 10, 12:30*am, jay > wrote:
> Ted
> " I still argue against the flat forehead school of wine growing. *If
> if grows well in the region, is a wine name recognized by your market,
> and will fully ripen, go with the known"
>
> thats what the commercial growers and wine makers from the AVA are
> telling me...experiment if you want but "why"? and that also brings in
> the discussion of how many different grapes are grown in the region
> without establishing a market for a few that the AVA can become known
> for.
>
> "If you do not prefer white wine, are you making it for yourself? If
> not for you, then? Life in the winery and vineyard can have enough
> complications without feeling like you are swimming up stream"
>
> Yeah the white wine is just to be prepared for the future...if I am
> successful at growing and making wine and want to bond a small
> winery ....a tasting room with just Pinot Noir in it might stay kinda
> empty, it would be nice to have a couple whites for those that like
> them...so I could have a Pinot, a Regent, and a blended red, and a
> white or two..though I think I would have a much higher ability to get
> some people to hang out and try some wine and sit in the vineyard with
> a little selection....maybe go with one recognized white and try
> Traminette...of course I am thinking ten years down the road, first I
> got to grow it and learn to make it well, I figure thats about five
> years just to figure which end the grapes come out of....
>
> Jason

On Oct 10, 1:57*am, tdjudd > wrote:
> the known is for the commercial side.
> the "other" is for the passion.
>
> I love Carmenere, Petite Verdot, Malbec, and Tannat. I make wine with
> them for me.
> I am VERY good at making Merlot, but I love a red blend with Cab Sauv,
> blended with Merlot and Malbec.
>
> Yet,
> I am sipping a glass of Chardonnay I made. Pretty darn good for a
> Chardonnay. crisp, clean, citrusy, wit enough flavor to have body and
> a finish. but, no oak, smoke, butter, vanilla, just the concentrated
> flavors from the grape.
> my pinot gris sold out in 6 weeks.
> we don't grow or make it here according to the experts, but the pinot
> noir i made? wish i had more. did not save enough to my personal
> cellar.
> but, can ship you several "extra" cases of wine I made in my early
> years. care for a case of cab franc made from grapes with green seeds?
>
> in other words,
> there are wines i make for those willing to share their spending money
> with me.
> and there are wines i make for me.
>
> you have to weigh the cost of these decisions for yourself.
>
> grow the the wines you can sell for the winery
> grow the wines you want to drink for yourself
>
> everything else is chatter
>
> ted
>
> On Oct 10, 12:30*am, jay > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ted
> > " I still argue against the flat forehead school of wine growing. *If
> > if grows well in the region, is a wine name recognized by your market,
> > and will fully ripen, go with the known"
>
> > thats what the commercial growers and wine makers from the AVA are
> > telling me...experiment if you want but "why"? and that also brings in
> > the discussion of how many different grapes are grown in the region
> > without establishing a market for a few that the AVA can become known
> > for.
>
> > "If you do not prefer white wine, are you making it for yourself? If
> > not for you, then? Life in the winery and vineyard can have enough
> > complications without feeling like you are swimming up stream"
>
> > Yeah the white wine is just to be prepared for the future...if I am
> > successful at growing and making wine and want to bond a small
> > winery ....a tasting room with just Pinot Noir in it might stay kinda
> > empty, it would be nice to have a couple whites for those that like
> > them...so I could have a Pinot, a Regent, and a blended red, and a
> > white or two..though I think I would have a much higher ability to get
> > some people to hang out and try some wine and sit in the vineyard with
> > a little selection....maybe go with one recognized white and try
> > Traminette...of course I am thinking ten years down the road, first I
> > got to grow it and learn to make it well, I figure thats about five
> > years just to figure which end the grapes come out of....
>
> > Jason- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ted , thanks for the advise I'll decline on the green seeds though....

ok,
so I started looking up a bit about Pinto Gris since I am now
considering it as one of the whites I want to grow, and it fits in
well with all the other Pinot types and Burgundian stuffs I am already
considering,
NOW in my research I have found references to blending Pinot Gris into
Pinot Noir IOT to contribute complexity and lighten the color! really?
do they just add a little juice skins and Pomace to the must? or are
we blending finished wines...are we talking white wine here? WTF are
they talking about?

ok,
so I started looking up a bit about Pino Gris since I am now
considering it as one of the whites I want to grow, and it fits in
well with all the other Pinot types and Burgundians stuffs I am
already
considerings,
NOW in my research I have found references to blending Pinot Gris
into
Pinot Noir IOT to contribute complexity and lighten the color!
really?
do they just add a little juice skins and Pomace to the must? or are
we blending finished wines...are we talking white wine here? WTF are
they talking about?

not familiar with this practice, except in the rhone region.
co-fermentation of a small amount of viognier with syrah can make the
finished wine Darker.
yes, this is totally counter intuitive. but it produces a darker,
richer rhone wine.
does it also work with burgundian grapes. sorry no personal
experience.

does it cross over to pinot? don't know

I will ask my friends who live in the pinot world and get back to
you .

ted



On Oct 11, 10:23*am, jay > wrote:
> ok,
> so I started looking up a bit about Pino Gris since I am now
> considering it as one of the whites I want to grow, and it fits in
> well with all the other Pinot types and Burgundians stuffs I am
> already
> considerings,
> NOW in my research I have found references to blending Pinot Gris
> into
> Pinot Noir IOT to contribute complexity and lighten the color!
> really?
> do they just add a little juice skins and Pomace to the must? or are
> we blending finished wines...are we talking white wine here? WTF are
> they talking about?

On Oct 10, 9:52*am, jay > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 1:57*am, tdjudd > wrote:
>
>
>
> > the known is for the commercial side.
> > the "other" is for the passion.
>
> > I love Carmenere, Petite Verdot, Malbec, and Tannat. I make wine with
> > them for me.
> > I am VERY good at making Merlot, but I love a red blend with Cab Sauv,
> > blended with Merlot and Malbec.
>
> > Yet,
> > I am sipping a glass of Chardonnay I made. Pretty darn good for a
> > Chardonnay. crisp, clean, citrusy, wit enough flavor to have body and
> > a finish. but, no oak, smoke, butter, vanilla, just the concentrated
> > flavors from the grape.
> > my pinot gris sold out in 6 weeks.
> > we don't grow or make it here according to the experts, but the pinot
> > noir i made? wish i had more. did not save enough to my personal
> > cellar.
> > but, can ship you several "extra" cases of wine I made in my early
> > years. care for a case of cab franc made from grapes with green seeds?
>
> > in other words,
> > there are wines i make for those willing to share their spending money
> > with me.
> > and there are wines i make for me.
>
> > you have to weigh the cost of these decisions for yourself.
>
> > grow the the wines you can sell for the winery
> > grow the wines you want to drink for yourself
>
> > everything else is chatter
>
> > ted
>
> > On Oct 10, 12:30*am, jay > wrote:
>
> > > Ted
> > > " I still argue against the flat forehead school of wine growing. *If
> > > if grows well in the region, is a wine name recognized by your market,
> > > and will fully ripen, go with the known"
>
> > > thats what the commercial growers and wine makers from the AVA are
> > > telling me...experiment if you want but "why"? and that also brings in
> > > the discussion of how many different grapes are grown in the region
> > > without establishing a market for a few that the AVA can become known
> > > for.
>
> > > "If you do not prefer white wine, are you making it for yourself? If
> > > not for you, then? Life in the winery and vineyard can have enough
> > > complications without feeling like you are swimming up stream"
>
> > > Yeah the white wine is just to be prepared for the future...if I am
> > > successful at growing and making wine and want to bond a small
> > > winery ....a tasting room with just Pinot Noir in it might stay kinda
> > > empty, it would be nice to have a couple whites for those that like
> > > them...so I could have a Pinot, a Regent, and a blended red, and a
> > > white or two..though I think I would have a much higher ability to get
> > > some people to hang out and try some wine and sit in the vineyard with
> > > a little selection....maybe go with one recognized white and try
> > > Traminette...of course I am thinking ten years down the road, first I
> > > got to grow it and learn to make it well, I figure thats about five
> > > years just to figure which end the grapes come out of....
>
> > > Jason- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Ted , thanks for the advise I'll decline on the green seeds though....

as you should. green twigs and bell peppers are not the flavor
descriptors i look for in red wines!

I dont' know about modern wine making or New world wine making but the
Oxford Companion to Wine says it has been part of classic burgundies,
back when they used field blends...
Wine Pros says "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness,
but will begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe. Sometimes
it is used to add richness and to lighten, when blended with Pinot
Noir"

so they seem to be saying that it has been used to lighten
Burgundy...which of course is not quite "in" style but interesting non
the less.

attaining sugar levels while maintaining a balance between acids and
pH are the tune for the dance we do at harvest.
"The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness, but will
begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe."
could be used to describe most grapes.
and, winemakers who pick by the numbers ignoring flavors and ripeness
pay the price in the wine.
field blends are not my preference. i choose to make the wines, then
blend. key words being i choose.
keep your tap shoes polished

ted


On Oct 12, 8:18*am, jay > wrote:
> I dont' know about modern wine making or New world wine making but the
> Oxford Companion to Wine says it has been part of classic burgundies,
> back when they used field blends...
> Wine Pros says "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness,
> but will begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe. Sometimes
> it is used to add richness and to lighten, when blended with Pinot
> Noir"
>
> so they seem to be saying that it has been used to lighten
> Burgundy...which of course is not quite "in" style but interesting non
> the less.

On Oct 13, 3:38*am, tdjudd > wrote:
> attaining sugar levels while maintaining a balance between acids and
> pH are the tune for the dance we do at harvest.
> * * *"The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness, but will
> begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe."
> could be used to describe most grapes.
> and, winemakers who pick by the numbers ignoring flavors and ripeness
> pay the price in the wine.
> field blends are not my preference. i choose to make the wines, then
> blend. key words being i choose.
> keep your tap shoes polished
>
> ted
>
> On Oct 12, 8:18*am, jay > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I dont' know about modern wine making or New world wine making but the
> > Oxford Companion to Wine says it has been part of classic burgundies,
> > back when they used field blends...
> > Wine Pros says "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness,
> > but will begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe. Sometimes
> > it is used to add richness and to lighten, when blended with Pinot
> > Noir"
>
> > so they seem to be saying that it has been used to lighten
> > Burgundy...which of course is not quite "in" style but interesting non
> > the less.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ted,
understood wilco to the best of my ability....it will take some field
time I am sure to be able to "taste" when the grapes are mature and
not just that the brix and acid are "correct"..that and brown seeds..
I just found it interesting that anyone would blend a "white wine"
into a red wine.
and tap shoe polish...know where i can get some of that?

I did find out that most Traminette ripens in areas with about 2600
GDD in mid oct, so I might not be getting anymore than a couple of
cuttings to see if it ripens at all.
ted how close are you to Yelm anyway?

jay

"jay" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 3:38 am, tdjudd > wrote:
> attaining sugar levels while maintaining a balance between acids and
> pH are the tune for the dance we do at harvest.
> "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness, but will
> begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe."
> could be used to describe most grapes.
> and, winemakers who pick by the numbers ignoring flavors and ripeness
> pay the price in the wine.
> field blends are not my preference. i choose to make the wines, then
> blend. key words being i choose.
> keep your tap shoes polished
>
> ted
>
> On Oct 12, 8:18 am, jay > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I dont' know about modern wine making or New world wine making but the
> > Oxford Companion to Wine says it has been part of classic burgundies,
> > back when they used field blends...
> > Wine Pros says "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness,
> > but will begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe. Sometimes
> > it is used to add richness and to lighten, when blended with Pinot
> > Noir"
>
> > so they seem to be saying that it has been used to lighten
> > Burgundy...which of course is not quite "in" style but interesting non
> > the less.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ted,
understood wilco to the best of my ability....it will take some field
time I am sure to be able to "taste" when the grapes are mature and
not just that the brix and acid are "correct"..that and brown seeds..
I just found it interesting that anyone would blend a "white wine"
into a red wine.
and tap shoe polish...know where i can get some of that?

I did find out that most Traminette ripens in areas with about 2600
GDD in mid oct, so I might not be getting anymore than a couple of
cuttings to see if it ripens at all.
ted how close are you to Yelm anyway?

jay

Green Creek Winery in Western NC makes a red chardonnay that is very
popular.They add Chamborcin pulp to the chard after pressing the Chamborcin.
It's a rose' color and quite tasty.
Steve