It is New Years Eve afternoon; the weather is now fantastic - a mere 25°C, a
zephyr of a sea breeze fanning the sun-tan seekers on the beach.



However, as I prepare for this evenings celebration (the Champagne is on
ice) I have managed to procure a couple more calendars which I will send
free to three participants, anywhere, who submits the most correct answers.



So, at a time when the world is looking pensively Eastward, I offer light
relief by way of Trivia #2 (2004 in Retrospect)



As before, please; entries only by email to my private address (easily
discovered); please include postal address (several entries in Trivia #1
were correct, but were submitted sans address!)



And, no! This is not some crude and painfully slow attempt to obtain email
addresses for soliciting purposes - so no more accusing emails, OK?



Q.1 The US said a final goodbye to Ronald Reagan; Palestinians mourned
the death of Yasser Arafat; who did Fijians farewell?



Q.2 During 2004, the world lost a Godfather; a Super Hero and an oil-fire
fighter. Name them.



Q.3 Who said "Is there anyone left in New Zealand to thank?"?



Q.4 Who did Australians dub "Lay down Sally"? Why?



Q.5 In November, a memorial service commemorating the 25th anniversary of
New Zealand's worst air disaster was held where?



Q.6 What very expensive breed of dog got lost on its way to Mars?



Q.7 What is LOTR director Peter Jackson's current project?



Q.8 In July, Lance Armstrong became the first man to win the Tour de
France six times. He jointly held the previous record with four others. Name
them.



Q.9 Which region is regarded as the world's southernmost winemaking
region?



Q.10 What is the name of the militia, terrorising the population of Dafur?







New Years wishes to all.



--



Lord St.Helier

Q.4 Who did Australians dub "Lay down Sally"? Why?


I don't know, and I'm Australian. What is the answer?

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:57:15 +1300, "st.helier"
> wrote:

>It is New Years Eve afternoon; the weather is now fantastic - a mere 25°C, a
>zephyr of a sea breeze fanning the sun-tan seekers on the beach.

I'm "beach-averse" after recent events.
>
>However, as I prepare for this evenings celebration (the Champagne is on
>ice) I have managed to procure a couple more calendars which I will send
>free to three participants, anywhere, who submits the most correct answers.

This evening will be looking at "Dolce"--a 1995 "late harvest dessert
wine"--that I'm hoping will fill in for Tokaji or Sauternes with some
foie gras with port/prune sauce, then a Baron de la Charriere
Vosne-Romanee 1er Cru '99 with duck breast. Will follow dinner a bit
later waiting for the ball to drop with a return to Bollinger Gran
Annee--this time a '92 (which I'm told was a terrible year in
Champagne). Will report in due course on the events.
>

>Q.2 During 2004, the world lost a Godfather; a Super Hero and an oil-fire
>fighter. Name them.

Marlon Brando, Christopher Reeve and Red Adair.
>
>Q.6 What very expensive breed of dog got lost on its way to Mars?

British satellite "Beagle II"
>
>
>Q.7 What is LOTR director Peter Jackson's current project?

King Kong
>
>Q.9 Which region is regarded as the world's southernmost winemaking
>region?

Chile's Patagonia
>
>Q.10 What is the name of the militia, terrorising the population of Dafur?

The Tamil Tigers.

>New Years wishes to all.

And I add my wishes as well.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

"Ed Rasimus" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:57:15 +1300, "st.helier"
> > wrote:
>
>>It is New Years Eve afternoon; the weather is now fantastic - a mere 25°C,
>>a
>>zephyr of a sea breeze fanning the sun-tan seekers on the beach.
>
> I'm "beach-averse" after recent events.
>>
>>However, as I prepare for this evenings celebration (the Champagne is on
>>ice) I have managed to procure a couple more calendars which I will send
>>free to three participants, anywhere, who submits the most correct
>>answers.
>
> This evening will be looking at "Dolce"--a 1995 "late harvest dessert
> wine"--that I'm hoping will fill in for Tokaji or Sauternes with some
> foie gras with port/prune sauce, then a Baron de la Charriere
> Vosne-Romanee 1er Cru '99 with duck breast. Will follow dinner a bit
> later waiting for the ball to drop with a return to Bollinger Gran
> Annee--this time a '92 (which I'm told was a terrible year in
> Champagne). Will report in due course on the events.
>>

We´re gettiong the `96 vintage in the Systembolaget, and that is OTOH a very
good vintage.
However, with the sole, risotto d´asparges, lobster sallad, and a lovingly
created lobster sauce (took me the best part of the afternoon) we had a 1990
Divine Leclerc Briant. What style. What elegance. What perfume of bread, and
peaches, and dried figs ... and at SEK 390 even a good QPR. Highly
recommended, if you can get it.


>>Q.10 What is the name of the militia, terrorising the population of
>>Dafur?
>
> The Tamil Tigers.
>


Not likely. Or perhaps there should have been a smiley attached? No, don´t
think so - correct answer is (excuse my spelling) janyawhid.

Cheers, and a Happy New Year from a subdued Sweden.

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

"Ed Rasimus" > skrev i melding
...
>
> If I can phonetically get it without the little diacritical marks, the
> toast that my first father-in-law taught me (a native-born Swede),
> "alla skol, vakka skol, alla vakka flikka skol". (Hope that's close!)
>
:-)
Close?
The last part should read "Alla vackra flickors skål" I think - in
translation "cheers to all beautiful girls" :-)
Most likely Nils should be able to give us the full sentence - your version
is a wee bit garbled and I don't remember the exact wording, from a 19th
century song I believe..
Ah, google helps: "Din skaal, min skaal, alla vackra flickors skaal! (Your
health, my health, the health of all pretty girls)" The aa is another form
of the å, of course.

The same source provided the following cheers in Spanish
"Por ellos, por los padres de ellos, por hacerlos tan bellos, por dejarnos
acostarnos con ellos"

Anders

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 20:37:16 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> wrote:

>
>"Ed Rasimus" > skrev i melding
.. .
>>
>> If I can phonetically get it without the little diacritical marks, the
>> toast that my first father-in-law taught me (a native-born Swede),
>> "alla skol, vakka skol, alla vakka flikka skol". (Hope that's close!)
>>
>:-)
>Close?
>The last part should read "Alla vackra flickors skål" I think - in
>translation "cheers to all beautiful girls" :-)
>Most likely Nils should be able to give us the full sentence - your version
>is a wee bit garbled and I don't remember the exact wording, from a 19th
>century song I believe..
>Ah, google helps: "Din skaal, min skaal, alla vackra flickors skaal! (Your
>health, my health, the health of all pretty girls)" The aa is another form
>of the å, of course.
>
>The same source provided the following cheers in Spanish
>"Por ellos, por los padres de ellos, por hacerlos tan bellos, por dejarnos
>acostarnos con ellos"
>
>Anders

AFW remains one of the finest and most sophisticated newsgroups in all
of Usenet (despite allowing the occasionally rowdy ex-warrior into the
midst.)

Thanks for the Svenska toast. I don't recall the Spanish one (despite
my four years in Madrid), but vaguely recall the one about "to health,
money, love and the time to enjoy them"--dum de dum, peseta, amor y
tiempo de dum.....

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> I don't recall the Spanish one (despite
> my four years in Madrid), but vaguely recall the one about "to health,
> money, love and the time to enjoy them"--dum de dum, peseta, amor y
> tiempo de dum.....

Salud, dinero, amor... y tiempo para disfrutarlos!

Tomas S ;^D

in article , Tom S at
wrote on 1/1/05 3:49 PM:

>
> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I don't recall the Spanish one (despite
>> my four years in Madrid), but vaguely recall the one about "to health,
>> money, love and the time to enjoy them"--dum de dum, peseta, amor y
>> tiempo de dum.....
>
> Salud, dinero, amor... y tiempo para disfrutarlos!
>
> Tomas S ;^D


A friend taught it to me as: "Salud, amor y pesetas....... y el tiempo para
gustarlos!" Same sentiment; very good toast. Happy New Year!!!

100% score to "Midlife" (please send me your postal address)

Responses..

To "Mat"

Q.4 "Lay Down Sally"? Surely you recall the amazing sight of Australian
Sally Robbins "quitting" during the women's eight rowing at Athens? I
believe she now lives in the Sahara, as far from water as she can get!


To "Ed Rasimus"

Q.9 You really had me going on this one Ed. But, no, Central Otago (NZ)
hold the honour. That region, and it's fifty or so wineries straddle the
45°South Latitude. Chiles southernmost vineyard is in the Southern Region
of Araucania at 38°S, whilst Argentina has several vineyards in Rio Negro at
around 40°South.

--

st.helier

st.helier wrote:
> 100% score to "Midlife" (please send me your postal address)
>
> Responses..
>
> To "Mat"
>
> Q.4 "Lay Down Sally"? Surely you recall the amazing sight of Australian
> Sally Robbins "quitting" during the women's eight rowing at Athens? I
> believe she now lives in the Sahara, as far from water as she can get!
>


Ah yes. I do indeed recall that great sporting moment, the epitomy of
the Australian spirit, having a bit of a lay down whilst on the job.

I do not recall the nick however, it is considered absolutely
blasphemous to sledge our great Olympic national heroes in this country.

"Mat", memory restored, said, in message

>
> Ah yes. I do indeed recall that great sporting moment, the epitomy
> of the Australian spirit, having a bit of a lay down whilst on the job.

> I do not recall the nick however, it is considered absolutely blasphemous
> to sledge our great Olympic national heroes
> in this country.


I believe that "Lay Down Sally" was coined by one of Australia's bigger
daily rags - I do not recall which; maybe the Cape York Chronicle - or was
it the Bunbury Bugle - whatever?

I must say, that, true Kiwi sports fanatic that I am, and having just
witnessed our identical twin double scullers [who make Elle Macpherson look
like a Russian weightlifter] obliterate the field in their race, the sight
of Robbins, in a fit of Australian overconfidence, taking 40 winks,
mid-race, was a joy to behold!!!!! :-)))

(Don't mention the cricket!!!!!!!)

--

st.helier

st.helier wrote:

> "Mat", memory restored, said, in message
>
>
>>Ah yes. I do indeed recall that great sporting moment, the epitomy
>>of the Australian spirit, having a bit of a lay down whilst on the job.
>
>
>>I do not recall the nick however, it is considered absolutely blasphemous
>>to sledge our great Olympic national heroes
>>in this country.
>
>
>
> I believe that "Lay Down Sally" was coined by one of Australia's bigger
> daily rags - I do not recall which; maybe the Cape York Chronicle - or was
> it the Bunbury Bugle - whatever?
>
> I must say, that, true Kiwi sports fanatic that I am, and having just
> witnessed our identical twin double scullers [who make Elle Macpherson look
> like a Russian weightlifter] obliterate the field in their race, the sight
> of Robbins, in a fit of Australian overconfidence, taking 40 winks,
> mid-race, was a joy to behold!!!!! :-)))
>
> (Don't mention the cricket!!!!!!!)
>
> --
>
> st.helier
>
>


Yes well the tabloid rags are not called rags for nothing. I read the
newspapers with the slightly bigger words and less of the obligatory
squeeze in as many photos as possible of scantily cladded woman under
some flimsy pretext. *humph* >:-!

Probably anything owned by Rupert. Perhaps the Outback Advertiser, or
the Daily Dunny Roll. :-?

What was the NZ medal count again? One in the rowing was it? The ol'
memory fades. Where did Oz [population 20 million] finish? Fifth or
something, behind US [300 million], China [~1.2 billion] etc? ;P

I shall resist further needling [damn its hard] of NZ, and resist the
obligatory joke about the twins and sheep (you know its written in
national law here any mention of NZ must include at least one reference
to sheep). Jokes about rowers are more than welcome. I had the
unfortunate event of coming across some of the Melbourne Uni rowers
during my time there.

As an aside, we recently had our 1 millionth NZ permanent resident move
over here [upon leaving the plane's door they told anyone who would
listen how terrible Oz is, and how they can't wait to get back to God's
own country (for a holiday)]. I think st. helier you need to start up
your own increase the population drive before the country empties out. :-\


I expect compensation from the NZ government in the form of a number of
cases of lovely NZ sav blanc, pinot etc for my suffering. ))

Where would NZ and OZ be without each other?

"Mat" <Ask@me> wrote in message ...
> Where would NZ and OZ be without each other?

Gee, I don't know. Isn't New Zealand sort of a suburb of Australia? ;^)
Was that one of the trivia questions?

S moT

"Mat" <Ask@me> wrote in message ...
> Where would NZ and OZ be without each other?

Gee, I don't know. Isn't New Zealand sort of a suburb of Australia? ;^)
Was that one of the trivia questions?

S moT

Tom S wrote:

> "Mat" <Ask@me> wrote in message ...
>
>>Where would NZ and OZ be without each other?
>
>
> Gee, I don't know. Isn't New Zealand sort of a suburb of Australia? ;^)
> Was that one of the trivia questions?
>
> S moT
>
>


Um actually Tom, New Zealand is a remote wind-swept iceberg island
floating largely unnoticed off the mainland (Australia).

I believe they conduct hazardous medical research and have quarantine
stations there or something. :-\

Any correspondance regarding NZ should be directed to her head office in
Canberra.

Deep down we do really have a soft spot for the kiwis, its just
tradition to give them a pasting whenever possible, and vice a versa
goes for them versus us too.

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 16:01:27 -0800, Midlife > wrote:

>in article , Tom S at
wrote on 1/1/05 3:49 PM:
>
>>
>> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I don't recall the Spanish one (despite
>>> my four years in Madrid), but vaguely recall the one about "to health,
>>> money, love and the time to enjoy them"--dum de dum, peseta, amor y
>>> tiempo de dum.....
>>
>> Salud, dinero, amor... y tiempo para disfrutarlos!
>>
>> Tomas S ;^D
>
>
>A friend taught it to me as: "Salud, amor y pesetas....... y el tiempo para
>gustarlos!" Same sentiment; very good toast. Happy New Year!!!

Muchisimas gracias a todos.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

"Mat" (the geographically challenged) spluttered........ ;-))

>
> New Zealand is a remote wind-swept iceberg island floating largely
> unnoticed off the mainland (Australia).
>

Matthew, weren't you listening during Miss Annie Dogbreath's catch-up class?

Island (singular)? Nope - in fact more islands (plural) than Australia.
Iceberg???? At least we have real mountains (not just an insignificant pile
of excrement which Australians call "The Snow", downloaded from Canberra) -
with real snow and glaciers; and real volcanic eruptions and real
earthquakes, designed to scare the s**t out of whimpy Strine visitors!
Remote? Yes, but not quite remote enough. By % of populations, their are
more Australians living in NZ than the reverse.
Un-noticed - because your paranoiac attention is always directed north
(still expected the yellow peril) whereas the true secret to Australia's
wealth lies 1,600km to the East. We give you two hours notice every day that
the sun will rise, elsewise, you would remain half asleep - dreaming of
sheep.

You see, Matthew, whereas NZ does farm sheep, and lots of them. it was
Australia which was a penal colony where men outnumbered women 10:1, that a
preoccupation with sheep was formed, so strong that your countries national
song, (about a sheep named Matilda) mourns the life of an unemployed bum,
who when caught "jumbucking" his beloved ewe, chose to drown himself, rather
than live without his precious Matilda.

> I believe they conduct hazardous medical research and have quarantine
> stations there or something.

Huh! Wasn't the Australians who bent over and let the Poms screw them into
allowing the conducting of British, above-ground nuclear tests in downtown
Adelaide?

Any correspondence regarding Australia should be directed to their head
office in Washington !!!!!

Deep down, all NZers have a loathing of Australians. The lay claim to our
icons (Phar Lap! Pavlova! Split Enz!); they will resort to cheating lest
they should lose any sporting competition to their peaceful neighbour with
1/5th of the population (I told you not to mention the cricket!); and, as
expected from a nation whose initial (European) were criminals, they are not
to be trusted either in trade, or with your women!!!!

BUT!!!!!

Remember this - we are brothers! You pick a fight with one, you pick a fight
with both.

It was Irwin Rommel (that admirable WW2, German General) who once said "Give
me one million ANZACs, and I will conquer the world!"

--

st.helier

st.helier wrote:
> "Mat" (the geographically challenged) spluttered........ ;-))
>
>
>>New Zealand is a remote wind-swept iceberg island floating largely
>>unnoticed off the mainland (Australia).
>>
>
>
> Matthew, weren't you listening during Miss Annie Dogbreath's catch-up class?
>
> Island (singular)? Nope - in fact more islands (plural) than Australia.
> Iceberg???? At least we have real mountains (not just an insignificant pile
> of excrement which Australians call "The Snow", downloaded from Canberra) -
> with real snow and glaciers; and real volcanic eruptions and real
> earthquakes, designed to scare the s**t out of whimpy Strine visitors!
> Remote? Yes, but not quite remote enough. By % of populations, their are
> more Australians living in NZ than the reverse.
> Un-noticed - because your paranoiac attention is always directed north
> (still expected the yellow peril) whereas the true secret to Australia's
> wealth lies 1,600km to the East. We give you two hours notice every day that
> the sun will rise, elsewise, you would remain half asleep - dreaming of
> sheep.
>
> You see, Matthew, whereas NZ does farm sheep, and lots of them. it was
> Australia which was a penal colony where men outnumbered women 10:1, that a
> preoccupation with sheep was formed, so strong that your countries national
> song, (about a sheep named Matilda) mourns the life of an unemployed bum,
> who when caught "jumbucking" his beloved ewe, chose to drown himself, rather
> than live without his precious Matilda.
>
>
>>I believe they conduct hazardous medical research and have quarantine
>>stations there or something.
>
>
> Huh! Wasn't the Australians who bent over and let the Poms screw them into
> allowing the conducting of British, above-ground nuclear tests in downtown
> Adelaide?
>
> Any correspondence regarding Australia should be directed to their head
> office in Washington !!!!!
>
> Deep down, all NZers have a loathing of Australians. The lay claim to our
> icons (Phar Lap! Pavlova! Split Enz!); they will resort to cheating lest
> they should lose any sporting competition to their peaceful neighbour with
> 1/5th of the population (I told you not to mention the cricket!); and, as
> expected from a nation whose initial (European) were criminals, they are not
> to be trusted either in trade, or with your women!!!!
>
> BUT!!!!!
>
> Remember this - we are brothers! You pick a fight with one, you pick a fight
> with both.
>
> It was Irwin Rommel (that admirable WW2, German General) who once said "Give
> me one million ANZACs, and I will conquer the world!"
>
> --
>
> st.helier
>
>

Yes well I believe the correct term is inferiority complex. Most
Australians could not give two stuffs about NZ except when we are
playing them at tiddlewinks or some such sport they spend their entire
time trying to beat us at [so far rugby union appears to be the only
sport NZ puts up a decent contest in], and which only a devoted few play
at, rather than the entire nation. Rugby union for example is played by
a small number of private school old boys in two out of 7 states or
territories. It is a national craze in NZ, and defines much of their
national ethos and culture.

Whilst NZ seems to spend an awful lot of time worrying about us, in the
same manner as such colossal nations as Nauru, Solomon Islands etc.
Which should put that particular statement in context. I wonder how much
aid relief we pass on to our cousins in economically ravaged NZ [we seem
to be a job placement agency for NZ]. Well we also seem to love NZ
refugees [if sadly none from anywhere else].

I think NZ could regard Australia as the mother country. :->

There are somewhere in the vacinity of 3 billion asians to our north,
something like 4 million Nuw Zulundurs to the Ust. Plus 1 million+ NZ
citizens and their spawn over here.

As any returnee from the land of the long white cloud will tell you,
nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there. And I think you
may find many of the "Australians" living over there are actually of NZ
heritage [I myself know many ppl who have no NZ status, yet have strong
blood ties]. I don't particuarly like the cold, which rules me out, and
if I wanted an authentic NZ experience I could just move to Tasmania
[that's not strictly true, I would love to visit NZ]. Plus we have snow
in NSW, Victoria, Tasmania too JFYI. Antartica has a lot of snow, I hear
the climate there is roughly the same as NZ.

Waltzing Matilda I think you may have slightly misinterpreted the
lyrics. As for nuclear testing, NZ's protests did not seem to bother the
French, Americans and British testing in the pacific, and the French
chose your country to do its dirty work [I agree, a dispicable act],
rather than ours. In fact up until recently, we had quite a strong
relationship with the DSD, the French secret service, but our current
government seems to have deliberately poisoned that one [yes yes, they
rang Dubya and asked him what to do]. O and the mossad seem to have
developed a taste for doing dirty business in NZ as well. Probably hoped
that sheep witnesses wouldn't tell anyone, no people around to see what
they are up to.

And as for international profile, well Phar Lap, the Finn brothers,
pavlova and Russell Crowe [I'd claim the first two, but not the last two
if I were you] have all renounced their citizenship of NZ. And o the
bevvy of internationally renouned NZers, why there's ummmm, well
ummmmmm, ummmmmm help me out here! ;->


Ahh I could go on and on sticking the gum-boot in [well normally you
stick it in the gumboot, another classic NZ joke (Why do New Zealanders
wear gumboots [[visual action required]])], but easy targets aren't as
challenging! ;-)

We have I think a big brother / little brother, or big dog / little dog
relationship. We're bound by blood and history and will never be apart,
but the little one is always niggling away, whilst the big one
[Australia] finds the little one a minor annoyance that must be attended
to from time to time, but we really wish they'd find their own way in
the world and stop trying to ride our train. Always trying to hand round
with us and our friends, always trying to get involved in our
activities, sometimes Mum and Dad make us take you, and we spend the day
torturing you. Any chance the little one gets to needle the big one and
run off they do.

If you have any brothers you will know what I'm talking about.



So yus, Nuw Zulund us our luttle bruthur bro, und we du luve thuse
luttle kuwi buggurs bro. ;-)

Mat.


btw: Andrew, I still have not recieved my NZ sponsored compensation wine.

Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

>> Gee, I don't know. Isn't New Zealand sort of a suburb of
>> Australia? ;^) Was that one of the trivia questions?

> Um actually Tom, New Zealand is a remote wind-swept iceberg
> island floating largely unnoticed off the mainland (Australia).
>

I've seen that - reminds me of the beautiful amiable and friendly
relationship of Austria vs. Germany, Belgium vs. France or
Portugal vs. Spain ... ;-)

M.

Michael Pronay wrote:

> Mat <Ask@me> wrote:
>
>
>>>Gee, I don't know. Isn't New Zealand sort of a suburb of
>>>Australia? ;^) Was that one of the trivia questions?
>
>
>>Um actually Tom, New Zealand is a remote wind-swept iceberg
>>island floating largely unnoticed off the mainland (Australia).
>>
>
>
> I've seen that - reminds me of the beautiful amiable and friendly
> relationship of Austria vs. Germany, Belgium vs. France or
> Portugal vs. Spain ... ;-)
>
> M.


Yeah everyone has to have a rival of some sort. I see it in Canada and
the US as well.

England and Wales, England and Scotland, England and Ireland [north and
south], England and the Channel Islands, England and France, England and
Germany, England and Australia. ;-P


Mat.

Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

> Yeah everyone has to have a rival of some sort. I see it in
> Canada and the US as well.
>
> England and Wales, England and Scotland, England and Ireland
> [north and south], England and the Channel Islands, England and
> France, England and Germany, England and Australia. ;-P

These are other cases than mine. England vs. France (or Canada vs.
US) are countries of roughly the same size, while my examples are
typical for condescending "big brothers".

M.

Michael Pronay wrote:

> Mat <Ask@me> wrote:
>
>
>>Yeah everyone has to have a rival of some sort. I see it in
>>Canada and the US as well.
>>
>>England and Wales, England and Scotland, England and Ireland
>>[north and south], England and the Channel Islands, England and
>>France, England and Germany, England and Australia. ;-P
>
>
> These are other cases than mine. England vs. France (or Canada vs.
> US) are countries of roughly the same size, while my examples are
> typical for condescending "big brothers".
>
> M.


O yeah. Well England and France I spose you could argue for or against
[each has always considered themselves above the other traditionally,
and in fact have colonised each other to greater / lesser extents in
history], but Canada has always lived in America's shadow to one degree
or another. And like Australia they are still part of the Commonwealth.

I guess any coloniser and her colony would be a candidate. A lot of
neighbours obviously. Anyone old world versus new world. Wine is a
perfect example of this I guess, with many debates raging in here about
the subtlety of the old world versus the brashness of the new world.
[read sophisticated versus barbarian].

O well, I guess everyone gets the NZ / Australia relationship to some
degree by now.


As a point of interest [if anyone is still reading my usual long-winded
self-absorbed post], what is the relationship between Oz and NZ wines
abroad?

I mean what are ppls impressions, experiences etc? I mean I would say
most ppl would know NZ sav blanc, and Oz shiraz at least by reputation,
but what about market share, impressions, experiences etc etc.?


I personally have had very little NZ wine, 2002 Montana Sav Blanc
springs to mind [I quite enjoyed it], and I have a Montana red blend [I
will have to look as can't remember] I've had for a while, but that's
about it for me. I think you could find equally good wines within Oz, so
usually just enjoy the local stuff. NZ stuff is mostly coldish climate,
so I would probably stick to sav blanc and pinot noir if someone twisted
my arm. Anyone had anything good out of NZ?

Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

> As a point of interest [if anyone is still reading my usual
> long-winded self-absorbed post],

Don't worry, you *are* read!

> what is the relationship between Oz and NZ wines abroad?
>
> I mean what are ppls impressions, experiences etc? I mean I
> would say most ppl would know NZ sav blanc, and Oz shiraz at
> least by reputation, but what about market share, impressions,
> experiences etc etc.?

Here in Austria, Oz has done a flamboyant entrty to the market
some five to eight years ago, mainly with shiraz, but also with
cabernet. Today the scene has flattened out a little, not so much
because of better Oz wines getting more and more expensive (which
might be one, but not the main reason), but because of Austrian
reds going from strength to streng. Red varieties - 1/6 of the
plantings 10 years ago - have doubled in the last five years.

As to NZ, the wines are virtually non-existent on the Austrian
market. Some 10 years I have seen Cloudy Bay, but never have come
across ever since (although I assume that they are imported, since
they share the importer with Veuve Clicquot).

M.

Michael Pronay wrote:

> Mat <Ask@me> wrote:
>
>
>>As a point of interest [if anyone is still reading my usual
>>long-winded self-absorbed post],
>
>
> Don't worry, you *are* read!
>
>

Hahaha! Must be a lot of bored ppl out there.

>>what is the relationship between Oz and NZ wines abroad?
>>
>>I mean what are ppls impressions, experiences etc? I mean I
>>would say most ppl would know NZ sav blanc, and Oz shiraz at
>>least by reputation, but what about market share, impressions,
>>experiences etc etc.?
>
>
> Here in Austria, Oz has done a flamboyant entrty to the market
> some five to eight years ago, mainly with shiraz, but also with
> cabernet. Today the scene has flattened out a little, not so much
> because of better Oz wines getting more and more expensive (which
> might be one, but not the main reason), but because of Austrian
> reds going from strength to streng. Red varieties - 1/6 of the
> plantings 10 years ago - have doubled in the last five years.
>
> As to NZ, the wines are virtually non-existent on the Austrian
> market. Some 10 years I have seen Cloudy Bay, but never have come
> across ever since (although I assume that they are imported, since
> they share the importer with Veuve Clicquot).
>
> M.


Yeah I thought that would be pretty much the story. There are a lot of
good wines coming out of Oz in varieties you might not expect, pinot
noir [Tasmanian pinot noir is really taking off, and the Yarra Valley is
always very strong], riesling, marsanne, sav blanc, tokay [muscadelle
for our Hungarian friends], muscat... pretty much anything you can
imagine. Although I'm not sure about the price brackets people in here
talk about [say $50US++] as I am not able to afford those.

Australia seems to be good at marketing itself to other countries. Put a
nice bright picture of a kangaroo etc on the bottle, or some stupid name
like Ten Minutes By Tractor. Rather more attention grabbing than
"Chateau X" with a really boring label. It is quite difficult to tell
apart many of the French bottles I have seen in my travels through the
wines of the world and boutique French sections. They are charming and
say "elegance and style", but they are not attention grabbing at all.

We have wine makers like Brown Brothers and a lot of other operations
who will happily give anything a crack just to see what happens.

As for your part of the world, I cannot say I have seen anything in the
way of Austrian wines here, though I have not really looked. We seem to
have a lot of sweeter Germans [and their wines ]. Although I have not
indulged in any Germans [add your own joke here]. May have to try some
German language stuff just out of interest if I can find any.


Mat.

Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

> There are a lot of good wines coming out of Oz in varieties you
> might not expect, pinot noir [Tasmanian pinot noir is really
> taking off, and the Yarra Valley is always very strong],

Now that you say it, I remember having tasted y fabulous pinot
some years ago. Can't remember the name, though :-(

> riesling, marsanne, sav blanc,

Can anybody tell me why sa_u_vignon (the first syllable pronounced
"soh") is so frequently abbreviated to "sav"?

> tokay [muscadelle for our Hungarian friends],

No wonder we haven't seen this - no chance to market it under the
name of "tokay" in Europe!

> ... We have wine makers like Brown Brothers and a lot of other
> operations who will happily give anything a crack just to see
> what happens.

Yeah - Brown Brothers: Had dinner with them here in Vienna. I
remember quite a good sparkler, a fine sauvignon, and a stunning
riesling. (The reds were very good, too, but that was nothing new
to me.)

M.

<big snip>
>NZ stuff is mostly coldish climate,
>so I would probably stick to sav blanc and pinot noir if someone twisted
>my arm. Anyone had anything good out of NZ?

Besides the PN and sav blanc I've had some nice dessert wines form NZ. Jackson
Estates comes to mind.


Bi!!

Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on 3 Jan 2005 15:19:27 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>Mat <Ask@me> wrote:
>
>> There are a lot of good wines coming out of Oz in varieties you
>> might not expect, pinot noir [Tasmanian pinot noir is really
>> taking off, and the Yarra Valley is always very strong],
>
>Now that you say it, I remember having tasted y fabulous pinot
>some years ago. Can't remember the name, though :-(

I havew some bottles of an excellent Moss Wood PN from Western Australia.
Very much in the rather overblown new world style, but delicious
nevertheless.

>> tokay [muscadelle for our Hungarian friends],

Muscadelle for the whole international community _except_ Oz.

>No wonder we haven't seen this - no chance to market it under the
>name of "tokay" in Europe!

A shame, because much is well worth trying.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Michael Pronay wrote:
> Mat <Ask@me> wrote:
>
>
>>There are a lot of good wines coming out of Oz in varieties you
>>might not expect, pinot noir [Tasmanian pinot noir is really
>>taking off, and the Yarra Valley is always very strong],
>
>
> Now that you say it, I remember having tasted y fabulous pinot
> some years ago. Can't remember the name, though :-(
>

Yeah, some pretty good ports here too, although I know that only from
reputation rather than personal experience. Also as you would expect
some cheap and nasties.

>
>>riesling, marsanne, sav blanc,
>
>
> Can anybody tell me why sa_u_vignon (the first syllable pronounced
> "soh") is so frequently abbreviated to "sav"?
>

Well correct or not, here in Oz, and I suspect many other places, the
soh becomes sav. The nasally sounds of the French language do not really
have any equivalents in the English language I think, especially the
Australian variety of English.

Here you only pronounce some French wine names correctly if you are
trying to be posh. Semillon in *some* cases becomes sem-i-lon. Merlot is
often pronounced incorrectly by newbies as mer-lot [not mer-low].


>
>>tokay [muscadelle for our Hungarian friends],
>
>
> No wonder we haven't seen this - no chance to market it under the
> name of "tokay" in Europe!
>

Hmm, I'm not sure how the marketting of Oz tokay works in Europe. Tho
judging by a few Europeans posts it is seen there. Don't ask me under
what mantle.


>
>>... We have wine makers like Brown Brothers and a lot of other
>>operations who will happily give anything a crack just to see
>>what happens.
>
>
> Yeah - Brown Brothers: Had dinner with them here in Vienna. I
> remember quite a good sparkler, a fine sauvignon, and a stunning
> riesling. (The reds were very good, too, but that was nothing new
> to me.)
>


You do lead the bon vivant don't you Michael?

Brown Brothers is usually a fairly safe bet. Also they like making
obscure varieties that not many other ppl will touch here.


> M.


Mat.

RV WRLee wrote:

> <big snip>
>
>>NZ stuff is mostly coldish climate,
>>so I would probably stick to sav blanc and pinot noir if someone twisted
>>my arm. Anyone had anything good out of NZ?
>
>
> Besides the PN and sav blanc I've had some nice dessert wines form NZ. Jackson
> Estates comes to mind.
>
>
> Bi!!


Thanks for the info. I shall have to keep that in mind if I ever get the
time to get around to NZ stuff.

Mat.

"Mat" wrote in message.............

> And as for international profile, well...
> all renounced their citizenship of NZ.

Phar Lap - bred in Timaru, New Zealand
The Finn brothers - born and bred in Te Awamutu - and still here
Russell Crowe - Australian (no dispute) couldn't fight his way out of a
paper bag.
Pavlova - sorry Mat, now undisputedly accepted as NZ in origin (read below -
source - Australia)

WHERE DID PAVLOVAS COME FROM?

This, I believe, should be the final word on the origins of the pav and
comes from the following highly authoritative AUSTRALIAN reference:
M.Symons, "One continuous picnic: a history of eating in Australia", Duck
Press, Adelaide, 1982. There's a long section on the Pav, its recipe and its
origins but I'll excerpt the most important bits:
"A symphony of silence! So Pavlova has been described," began the report in
the West Australian on Tuesday, July 9, 1929. "But who, seeing the famous
ballerina for the first time as she stood on the deck... at Fremantle
yesterday, could apply the description? It was Babel itself!" The reporter
managed to share her cab into Perth... "They are funny, these Australians,"
she pronounced in the cab... The next night she gave the first of 11
evening... performances... "Exquisite Pavlova!..." began the West
Australian. It was her only Perth season, on her second Australian tour. She
died two years later. Yet her memory survived at her hotel, the Esplanade,
because there six years later the chef whipped up the meringue and cream
cake which perpetuates her name....

"In 1934, Mrs. Elizabeth Paxton succeeded her husband as licensee of the
Esplanade and under her invigorated guidance the afternoon teas became very
desirable occasions.... One day she called in her manager... and they
approached their chef [Bert Sachse] to devise something special... Bert
Sachse experimented for a month.... According to Paxton family tradition,
the pavlova was named at a meeting at which Sachse presented the now
familiar cake. The family say that either the licensee...or the
manager...(as Sachse also said) remarked, "It is as light as Pavlova".

[The author then explains how he proceeded to research the NZ claim.] "To
help check for me, librarians of the National Library of New Zealand kindly
consulted their collection of cookery books. In fact, they found a recipe
for "Pavlova cakes" ... published in 1929. The ingredients were roughly
those of a pavlova, but it was not the pavlova as we know it, because the
mixture was baked into three dozen little meringues. It seems a coincidence
that the NZ cook was impressed by the ballerina's lightness and whiteness.

"But there is more to the NZ claim than this. Even earlier, in "Terrace
Tested Recipes", collected by the ladies of Terrace Congregational Church,
the second edition published in Wellington in 1927, there was a recipe
submitted by a Mrs. McRae for Meringue Cake. [He then describes the recipe].
From similar recipes published in 1933 and 1934, I think it is fair to say
that the Meringue Cake was common in NZ in the early 1930s. Its form varied,
but it was to all intents and purposes what we know as a "Pavlova",
sometimes even complete with passionfruit on top.

"Bert Sachse said in a magazine interview in 1973 that he sought to improve
the Meringue Cake. There was a prize-winning recipe for Meringue Cake in the
"Women's Mirror" on April 2, 1935. It contained vinegar, but no cornflour
and was of two parts filled with whipped cream. The recipe was contributed
by "Rewa", who happened to be of Rongotai, NZ. If Sachse read the "Women's
Mirror" and other magazines for ideas, as his widow told me, he might have
seen this recipe. We can concede that New Zealanders discovered the secret
delights of the large meringue with the "marshmallow centre", the heart of
the pavlova. But it seems reasonable to assume that someone in Perth
attached the name of the ballerina...

"It is possible, if ungenerous, to deride the pavlova for culinary
innocence. It was adopted from New Zealand. Yet Herbert Sachse made a
genuine, crystallising contribution."

However, though it may pain many, it is now accepted that Sachse used the
original New Zealand recipe which had been widely used for a decade in New
Zealand.

(end)

--

st.helier

>Yeah everyone has to have a rival of some sort. I see it in Canada and
>the US as well.

Canada is Bigger.

The US has Bush.

I'd call it no contest - Canada wins on both points.......

Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

>> Can anybody tell me why sa_u_vignon (the first syllable
>> pronounced "soh") is so frequently abbreviated to "sav"?

> Well correct or not, here in Oz, and I suspect many other
> places, the soh becomes sav. The nasally sounds of the French
> language do not really have any equivalents in the English
> language I think, especially the Australian variety of English.

But "sau" is *not* a nasal - it's exactly like "so"! The "gnon" at
the end is a nasal, but nobody cares about it, the Italians say
"sovinyon" (like so-vee-NYON).

M.

Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

>> No wonder we haven't seen this - no chance to market it under
>> the name of "tokay" in Europe!

> Hmm, I'm not sure how the marketting of Oz tokay works in
> Europe.

Not at all, period. There is nearly none.

I remember having something from Brown Bros that night, must have
been "Liqueur Muscat" or something in the like. Was quite good,
actually.

M.

Michael Pronay wrote:

>> Hmm, I'm not sure how the marketting of Oz tokay works in
>> Europe.

> Not at all, period. There is nearly none.

Sadly true, and for NZ wines it's even worst.
--
Vilco
Think Pink , Drink Rose'

"Vilco" > skrev i melding
...
> Michael Pronay wrote:
>
>>> Hmm, I'm not sure how the marketting of Oz tokay works in
>>> Europe.
>
>> Not at all, period. There is nearly none.
>
> Sadly true, and for NZ wines it's even worst.
> --
> Vilco
> Think Pink , Drink Rose'
>
Hi,
counted 154 Oz reds available here in Norway, ranging from a pedestrian
Glenloth (a better buy: Claremont Shiraz 2002) to Grange -97, -98 and -99.
Also found something called Run Rig 2002 at about 200USD a bottle?

There were a total of 6 NZ reds..., the best seem to be Villa Maria Cellar
Selection Marlborough Pinot Noir 2002 and Waipara West Pinot Noir 1999

Whites: 64 Oz ones, top prices Penfolds Yattarna Chard 2000 at 95USD and
Cranes Eden Valley Chard 2002 at 55USD
NZ: 16 with Cloudy Bay Chard 2002 at top at 40USD.

Seems that Australia knocks NZ down, at least here.
Any comments?
Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> Seems that Australia knocks NZ down, at least here.
> Any comments?

From "Wein & Co", Austria's largest retailer (<www.weinco.at>):

AU: 72 wines.

NZ: 7 wines.

M.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:53:29 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> wrote:

>
>"Vilco" > skrev i melding
. ..
>> Michael Pronay wrote:
>>
>>>> Hmm, I'm not sure how the marketting of Oz tokay works in
>>>> Europe.
>>
>>> Not at all, period. There is nearly none.
>>
>> Sadly true, and for NZ wines it's even worst.
>> --
>> Vilco
>> Think Pink , Drink Rose'
>>
>Hi,
>counted 154 Oz reds available here in Norway, ranging from a pedestrian
>Glenloth (a better buy: Claremont Shiraz 2002) to Grange -97, -98 and -99.
>Also found something called Run Rig 2002 at about 200USD a bottle?

Anders, would that have been Run Rig by Torbreck ? Top Shelf Shiraz
if it is.

Hooroo...

>
>
>
>

st.helier wrote:

> "Mat" wrote in message.............
>
>
>>And as for international profile, well...
>>all renounced their citizenship of NZ.
>
>
> Phar Lap - bred in Timaru, New Zealand
> The Finn brothers - born and bred in Te Awamutu - and still here
> Russell Crowe - Australian (no dispute) couldn't fight his way out of a
> paper bag.
> Pavlova - sorry Mat, now undisputedly accepted as NZ in origin (read below -
> source - Australia)
>

>
> st.helier


Well Phar Lap I'm not a big gee-gee man.
The Finn's I'm happy they're from NZ, good on them.
Russell Crowe please take him back.
Pavlova I don't like.

So its all good at my end.


Mat.

"Swooper" > skrev i melding
...
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:53:29 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> > wrote:
>
>
> Anders, would that have been Run Rig by Torbreck ? Top Shelf Shiraz
> if it is.
>
Torbreck, yes. And pricewise top shelf here at 200USD. What's the price in
your place?
Anders

Michael Pronay wrote:

> Mat <Ask@me> wrote:
>
>
>>>Can anybody tell me why sa_u_vignon (the first syllable
>>>pronounced "soh") is so frequently abbreviated to "sav"?
>
>
>>Well correct or not, here in Oz, and I suspect many other
>>places, the soh becomes sav. The nasally sounds of the French
>>language do not really have any equivalents in the English
>>language I think, especially the Australian variety of English.
>
>
> But "sau" is *not* a nasal - it's exactly like "so"! The "gnon" at
> the end is a nasal, but nobody cares about it, the Italians say
> "sovinyon" (like so-vee-NYON).
>
> M.


Yeah I guess. Its still a bit of a truncated "so" sound, which I can't
really think of an English equivalent. Plus it is spelt "s a", so I
guess it seems logical saying "sa".

I will make an effort to pronounce it correctly from now on.