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Old 06-09-2007, 03:04 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape

http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10941073
VRAC Cotes du Rhone - 2006 - purchased for $7.99 at Gary's

http://tinyurl.com/2oqncn
Kirkland Chateauneuf du Pape - 2005 purchased at $19.99


I had put down on my list to buy another bottle of du Pape, but DH said
let's try the VRAC and compare. We both found so little difference that we
didn't even bother to blind taste test.

Dee







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Old 06-09-2007, 08:09 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:04:34 -0400
"Dee Dee" wrote:

http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10941073
VRAC Cotes du Rhone - 2006 - purchased for $7.99 at Gary's

http://tinyurl.com/2oqncn
Kirkland Chateauneuf du Pape - 2005 purchased at $19.99


I had put down on my list to buy another bottle of du Pape, but DH said
let's try the VRAC and compare. We both found so little difference that we
didn't even bother to blind taste test.


Sounds like a great operation! If you get what seems the same for $8 US as what
used to cost $20, you're way ahead.

What is "Vrac?" Some kind of negociant?

In France "vrac" just means "bulk" (more or less, or "loose" I suppose, never looked
it up). When you buy wine "en vrac" you bring your jug or barrel to a sort of
gas pump, and fill it up. Great way to buy sometimes, we have even bottled
ourselves on occasion although I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble now.

I didn't see anything useful on the labels, but I must say I find calling
a wine "vrac" (and then charging 8 bucks for it) very bizarre!

-E
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Emery Davis
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:37 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape


"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:04:34 -0400
"Dee Dee" wrote:

http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10941073
VRAC Cotes du Rhone - 2006 - purchased for $7.99 at Gary's

http://tinyurl.com/2oqncn
Kirkland Chateauneuf du Pape - 2005 purchased at $19.99


I had put down on my list to buy another bottle of du Pape, but DH said
let's try the VRAC and compare. We both found so little difference that
we
didn't even bother to blind taste test.


Sounds like a great operation! If you get what seems the same for $8 US
as what
used to cost $20, you're way ahead.

What is "Vrac?" Some kind of negociant?

In France "vrac" just means "bulk" (more or less, or "loose" I suppose,
never looked
it up). When you buy wine "en vrac" you bring your jug or barrel to a
sort of
gas pump, and fill it up. Great way to buy sometimes, we have even
bottled
ourselves on occasion although I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble now.

I didn't see anything useful on the labels, but I must say I find calling
a wine "vrac" (and then charging 8 bucks for it) very bizarre!

-E
--
Emery Davis


Yes, I believe on the back of the VRAC bottle, it did say, it meant bulk
wine.

What I find more bizarre is that it tasted as good as the du Pape that I
paid $20 for. I just can't understand that. If it were just me, I'd chalk
it up to 'my taster," but DH felt the same way. Perhaps the du Pape wasn't
as good as it should have been.
Dee


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Old 06-09-2007, 09:24 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:37:33 -0400
"Dee Dee" wrote:


"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:04:34 -0400
"Dee Dee" wrote:

http://www.wineaccess.com/store/gary...ct_id=10941073
VRAC Cotes du Rhone - 2006 - purchased for $7.99 at Gary's

http://tinyurl.com/2oqncn
Kirkland Chateauneuf du Pape - 2005 purchased at $19.99


I had put down on my list to buy another bottle of du Pape, but DH said
let's try the VRAC and compare. We both found so little difference that
we
didn't even bother to blind taste test.


Sounds like a great operation! If you get what seems the same for $8 US
as what
used to cost $20, you're way ahead.

What is "Vrac?" Some kind of negociant?

In France "vrac" just means "bulk" (more or less, or "loose" I suppose,
never looked
it up). When you buy wine "en vrac" you bring your jug or barrel to a
sort of
gas pump, and fill it up. Great way to buy sometimes, we have even
bottled
ourselves on occasion although I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble now.

I didn't see anything useful on the labels, but I must say I find calling
a wine "vrac" (and then charging 8 bucks for it) very bizarre!

-E
--
Emery Davis


Yes, I believe on the back of the VRAC bottle, it did say, it meant bulk
wine.

What I find more bizarre is that it tasted as good as the du Pape that I
paid $20 for. I just can't understand that. If it were just me, I'd chalk
it up to 'my taster," but DH felt the same way. Perhaps the du Pape wasn't
as good as it should have been.


Dee, if you've got a taster that's happy with "cheap", as far as I'm
concerned you're ahead of the game. The bottom line is to drink
what you like; if you can do it on the cheap, more power to you!

Negoc wines can vary vastly even in the same year. Like when 2 buck
chuck came out, some reviewer liked it, then reviled it later. Really it was
because it wasn't the same wine.

Sometimes, for one reason or another, a negoc may get hold of an amount
of CdP that's really pretty good (or they may be able to blend successfully).
Enjoy it while it lasts, (and perhaps lay some in if you really like), because
it may very well be swill 6 months from now...

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit
http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

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Old 06-09-2007, 09:40 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape

Dee Dee wrote:

What I find more bizarre is that it tasted as good as the du Pape that I
paid $20 for. I just can't understand that. If it were just me, I'd chalk
it up to 'my taster," but DH felt the same way. Perhaps the du Pape wasn't
as good as it should have been.


Dee,
There's plenty of swill that comes from Chateauneuf-du-Pape, just as
there is from any other area. Likewise, there's plenty of great wine
made in areas that aren't entitled to any name other than "Cotes du
Rhone." In this case, Dom. de Nalys actually has a decent reputation,
but you have to wonder why they decided to sell it to Costco in the
first place. For Costco to market it at $20, they probably can't pay
Nalys any more than $10 per bottle, which is probably 50% less than
they'd get selling it under their own name (their '04 is selling for
$25-30 retail). In fact, their '05 white is being sold under their
name, which makes me wonder again about the decision to sell it to
Costco. I suspect that they weren't happy with what they had on their
hands and chose to "declassify" the wine by selling it to Costco for
marketing under their own name. Perhaps the most surprising thing is
that Nalys agreed to have their name appear on the wine! ;-)

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com


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Old 06-09-2007, 10:54 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...
Dee Dee wrote:

What I find more bizarre is that it tasted as good as the du Pape that I
paid $20 for. I just can't understand that. If it were just me, I'd
chalk
it up to 'my taster," but DH felt the same way. Perhaps the du Pape
wasn't
as good as it should have been.


Dee,
There's plenty of swill that comes from Chateauneuf-du-Pape, just as
there is from any other area. Likewise, there's plenty of great wine
made in areas that aren't entitled to any name other than "Cotes du
Rhone." In this case, Dom. de Nalys actually has a decent reputation,
but you have to wonder why they decided to sell it to Costco in the
first place. For Costco to market it at $20, they probably can't pay
Nalys any more than $10 per bottle, which is probably 50% less than
they'd get selling it under their own name (their '04 is selling for
$25-30 retail). In fact, their '05 white is being sold under their
name, which makes me wonder again about the decision to sell it to
Costco. I suspect that they weren't happy with what they had on their
hands and chose to "declassify" the wine by selling it to Costco for
marketing under their own name. Perhaps the most surprising thing is
that Nalys agreed to have their name appear on the wine! ;-)

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com


Good post reply. I enjoyed reading it a lot.
Dee Dee


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Old 07-09-2007, 03:18 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape

Hi Mark,

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:40:07 -0400
Mark Lipton wrote:

Dee Dee wrote:

What I find more bizarre is that it tasted as good as the du Pape that I
paid $20 for. I just can't understand that. If it were just me, I'd chalk
it up to 'my taster," but DH felt the same way. Perhaps the du Pape wasn't
as good as it should have been.


Dee,
There's plenty of swill that comes from Chateauneuf-du-Pape, just as
there is from any other area. Likewise, there's plenty of great wine
made in areas that aren't entitled to any name other than "Cotes du
Rhone."


Too right. Or sometimes vin de pays can be a revelation... especially considering
the what the AOC strictures force on the growers.

I was told by a CdR producer on this last trip that they are not yet able
to bottle a certain 2006 villages wine, because the syndicat is requiring
more time so that less successful growers can move the 05. So my
guy can't sell his 06 villages, but he's got no 05 villages left to sell. Basically
he's being told he can't sell his product. The "solution" is to bottle some
now as Vin de Pays; this he can sell at a somewhat lesser price, but
at least keep the bills paid. The rest, _the exact same wine_, will be
bottled later as more expensive CdR villages.

In this case, Dom. de Nalys actually has a decent reputation,
but you have to wonder why they decided to sell it to Costco in the
first place. For Costco to market it at $20, they probably can't pay
Nalys any more than $10 per bottle, which is probably 50% less than
they'd get selling it under their own name (their '04 is selling for
$25-30 retail). In fact, their '05 white is being sold under their
name, which makes me wonder again about the decision to sell it to
Costco. I suspect that they weren't happy with what they had on their
hands and chose to "declassify" the wine by selling it to Costco for
marketing under their own name. Perhaps the most surprising thing is
that Nalys agreed to have their name appear on the wine! ;-)



This could be. But big quantity discounts are pretty high, and a lot of
the CdP folks are desperate to get into the US market. They may not
know much about Costco anyway, but I'd guess they're hoping to
leverage some name recognition later on. There are a boat load of
CdP producers, as you know.

Chateauneuf has become a lot like the Bordelais, there is really an "us
and them" culture. Those who have successfully entered the foreign
markets are doing really well, everybody else is just scraping along.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit
http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

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Old 07-09-2007, 03:37 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default VRAC vs. Kirkland's Chateauneuf du Pape

Emery Davis wrote:

Too right. Or sometimes vin de pays can be a revelation... especially considering
the what the AOC strictures force on the growers.


Yup. One of my favorite VdPs is VdP des Collines Rhodanniennes, which
produces some really lovely QPR Syrah (and, increasingly, Viognier) from
the benchlands above Cote Rotie/Condrieu. It seems to serve a purpose
much like Vino di Tavola served in Italy for all those producers who
want to break with AOC/DOC regulations. In this case, it seems to
mostly embrace those producers who find good terroir lying outside of
established AOC boundaries.


I was told by a CdR producer on this last trip that they are not yet able
to bottle a certain 2006 villages wine, because the syndicat is requiring
more time so that less successful growers can move the 05. So my
guy can't sell his 06 villages, but he's got no 05 villages left to sell. Basically
he's being told he can't sell his product. The "solution" is to bottle some
now as Vin de Pays; this he can sell at a somewhat lesser price, but
at least keep the bills paid. The rest, _the exact same wine_, will be
bottled later as more expensive CdR villages.


Ridiculous, but hardly a surprise.

This could be. But big quantity discounts are pretty high, and a lot of
the CdP folks are desperate to get into the US market. They may not
know much about Costco anyway, but I'd guess they're hoping to
leverage some name recognition later on. There are a boat load of
CdP producers, as you know.

Chateauneuf has become a lot like the Bordelais, there is really an "us
and them" culture. Those who have successfully entered the foreign
markets are doing really well, everybody else is just scraping along.


Well, the weird thing here is that they already had/have an importer, so
the decision to go with Costco couldn't just be to break into the US
market, nor would it seem very plausible that Costco was paying them
more than their other importer.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com


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