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| Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
A non-cross post from news:alt.humor.puns
Nemo "Tim Bruening" > wrote in message ... > > > nemo wrote: > > > "Tim Bruening" > wrote in message > > ... > > > 2 x 27 days to Christmas. > > > > On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me - > > Ten million pounds . . > > > > So I scarpered! > > 47 days to Christmas. > Hooray! Here's an old idea I resurrected last Christmas - a Christmas Pie. I made a pastry case with a layer of Christmas pudding mix in the bottom - a simple one - breadcrumbs, veg oil, rye flour, syrup, chopped nuts, vine fruits, cinnamon and nutmeg - then a layer of marzipan on top of that, then a layer of cake mix, then after it'd had about 20 minutes in the Microwave a final layer of marzipan and nice sharp-tasting icing made with lemon juice. Not much use if you're trying to lose weight, but at Christmas, who is? So you can add that to the following list! Jingle bells, jingle bells - There's the savory. Nice big bag of Brussels Sprouts All frozen just for me. Roasted spuds, parsnips too, Boy, they'll taste real good. Mustard, wine and Whiskey too All followed by the pud. See it disappear - See me wolf it down. Lovely roasted spuds Nice and golden brown. Savory made from nuts Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. Tastes as good, nutritious too And nothing has to die! |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"nemo" > wrote in message . .. >A non-cross post from news:alt.humor.puns > > Nemo > > > "Tim Bruening" > wrote in message > ... >> >> >> nemo wrote: >> >> > "Tim Bruening" > wrote in >> > message >> > ... >> > > 2 x 27 days to Christmas. >> > >> > On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me - >> > Ten million pounds . . >> > >> > So I scarpered! >> >> 47 days to Christmas. >> > Hooray! > > Here's an old idea I resurrected last Christmas - a Christmas > Pie. > > I made a pastry case with a layer of Christmas pudding mix in > the bottom - a > simple one - breadcrumbs, veg oil, rye flour, syrup, chopped > nuts, vine > fruits, cinnamon and nutmeg - then a layer of marzipan on top > of that, then > a layer of cake mix, then after it'd had about 20 minutes in > the Microwave a > final layer of marzipan and nice sharp-tasting icing made with > lemon juice. > > Not much use if you're trying to lose weight, but at Christmas, > who is? > > So you can add that to the following list! > > Jingle bells, jingle bells - > There's the savory. > Nice big bag of Brussels Sprouts > All frozen just for me. > > Roasted spuds, parsnips too, > Boy, they'll taste real good. > Mustard, wine and Whiskey too > All followed by the pud. ====================== I wouldn't have thought that pud was vegan, homo. But then, maybe you're not a gobbler, eh? > > > See it disappear - > See me wolf it down. > Lovely roasted spuds > Nice and golden brown. > > Savory made from nuts > Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. > Tastes as good, nutritious too > And nothing has to die! ========================= Still pushing this ly, eh killer? > > > |
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Something for Chrismas
nemo wrote:
<...> > Roasted spuds, parsnips too, > Boy, they'll taste real good. > Mustard, wine and Whiskey too > All followed by the pud. That's way too much information. We don't care to know that your mates take advantage of you after you get drunk. <...> > Savory made from nuts > Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. > Tastes as good, nutritious too > And nothing has to die! Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a result of the farming, transportation, and storage practices associated with grains. Many of the deaths are intentional (i.e., pesticides). Others aren't intentional (e.g., flooding during irrigation, burning fields, predation when croplands are harvested, slicing and dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> nemo wrote: > > <cut> > >>> Savory made from nuts >>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>> And nothing has to die! > > That is a correct statement. ======================= No, it is not, fool. Animals die by the millions in the production of veggies. Too bad you're just too stupid and/or willfully ignorant to know the truth, eh killer? > >> >> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a >> result of the farming, transportation, and storage practices >> associated with grains. Many of the deaths are intentional >> (i.e., pesticides). Others aren't intentional (e.g., flooding >> during irrigation, burning fields, predation when croplands >> are harvested, slicing and dicing during planting and harvest, >> etc.). > > That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from > nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide > vegetarians with food. ===================== Yes, they do. That you're too stupid to understnad is obvious, killer. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
> <cut> > >>> Savory made from nuts >>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>> And nothing has to die! > > That is a correct statement. No, it's patently false. >> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a result >> of the farming, transportation, and storage practices associated with >> grains. Many of the deaths are intentional (i.e., pesticides). Others >> aren't intentional (e.g., flooding during irrigation, burning fields, >> predation when croplands are harvested, slicing and dicing during >> planting and harvest, etc.). > > That maybe so, It *is* so, and it's why "nemo" was wrong. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>> <cut> >>> >>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>> And nothing has to die! >>> >>> That is a correct statement. >> >> No, it's patently false. >> > I've grown plenty of vegetables How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>> <cut> >>>>> >>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No, it's patently false. >>>> >>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >> >> >> >> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? > > How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, One more time. How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you ****? |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:14:47 +0000, Phil Odox > wrote:
>usual suspect wrote: >> nemo wrote: > ><cut> > >>> Savory made from nuts >>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>> And nothing has to die! > >That is a correct statement. > >> >> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a result of >> the farming, transportation, and storage practices associated with >> grains. Many of the deaths are intentional (i.e., pesticides). Others >> aren't intentional (e.g., flooding during irrigation, burning fields, >> predation when croplands are harvested, slicing and dicing during >> planting and harvest, etc.). > >That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >vegetarians with food. well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. rick and usual suspect are best ignored as whackos. I think it's mostly a matter of doing relatively less harm, than you would if you weren't vegan. I tried to grow some zuchhini over the summer, and the plants all got killed by bugs, before I got around to buying something to fend them off. If it's me or them, naturally I will pick me. When you do the growing yourself, it puts things in a slightly different perspective. tracy PS I think cutting out all dairy really is helping me already. wow. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>> >>>>>> No, it's patently false. >>>>>> >>>>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>> >>>> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>> >>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >> >> One more time. > > How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees Stop trying to change the subject. It's a very simple question. Answer it this time. Have you ever grown *wheat* and *rye*, and in sufficient quantity to make breadcrumbs? >> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," > > What about them? Have you grown them commercially or even for your own use? |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, it's patently false. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>>>> >>>>>> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>>>> >>>>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >>>> >>>> One more time. >>> >>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees >> >> Stop trying to change the subject. > > The subject is vegetable production No, ****, it's WHEAT and RYE. You haven't grown it, and you stubbornly refuse to admit that commmercially-grown crops are not death-free -- because that prove you're a liar. But that's okay. We know you are. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>> <cut> >>>> >>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That is a correct statement. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a >>>>> result of the farming, transportation, and storage practices >>>>> associated with grains. Many of the deaths are intentional (i.e., >>>>> pesticides). Others aren't intentional (e.g., flooding during >>>>> irrigation, burning fields, predation when croplands are harvested, >>>>> slicing and dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >>>> nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >>>> vegetarians with food. >>> >>> >>> >>> well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. >> >> >> >> "Has to die" is meaningless sophistry when you know damn well that >> animals DO die in the normal course of commercial-scale agriculture. >> > They might, They do die in the NORMAL course of commercial-scale agriculture. Your sophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate incessantly about not harming animals, is specious and meaningless since it's fantasy-based rather than reality-based. The reality of farming doesn't match your fantastical notions of what it could be like. Never has been, never will be. ****. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No, it's patently false. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> One more time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stop trying to change the subject. >>> >>> >>> >>> The subject is vegetable production >> >> >> >> No, > > > Yes, No, ****, it's WHEAT and RYE. You haven't grown it, and you stubbornly refuse to admit that commmercially-grown crops are not death-free -- because that prove you're a liar. But that's okay. We know you are. > it's about vegetable production and the simple fact > that vegetarians can eat without having to kill animals. You have a problem: animals *do* die in the normal course of commercial-scale agriculture. Your sophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate incessantly about not harming animals, is specious and meaningless since it's fantasy-based rather than reality-based. The reality of farming doesn't match your fantastical notions of what it could be like. Never has been, never will be. ****. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 13:53:37 +0000, Phil Odox > wrote:
> > >, fool. > >Your inability to converse in a civil manner is noted, >and you've barely finished your first sentence. > > Really Rick, sing a different tune for once. Your severe overuse of Fool and Killer makes entering a dialogue with you insignificant. Maybe I don't agree with alot of what Usual S comments about, but his posts at the very least usually has 'stocky' substance. As for his attitude I find it darkly entertaining more than offensive much like the villainous role played of 'Bill the Butcher' in 'Gangs of New York'. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a >>>>>>> result of the farming, transportation, and storage practices >>>>>>> associated with grains. Many of the deaths are intentional (i.e., >>>>>>> pesticides). Others aren't intentional (e.g., flooding during >>>>>>> irrigation, burning fields, predation when croplands are >>>>>>> harvested, slicing and dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >>>>>> nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >>>>>> vegetarians with food. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Has to die" is meaningless sophistry when you know damn well that >>>> animals DO die in the normal course of commercial-scale agriculture. >>>> >>> They might, >> >> >> >> They do die in the NORMAL course of commercial-scale agriculture. > > That may be so, It is so. > occasionally, Wrong. NORMALLY. ROUTINELY. >> Yoursophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate incessantly about >> not harming animals, is specious and meaningless since it's >> fantasy-based rather than reality-based. > > I've grown tons of the stuff Liar, and yet again you've failed to address the fact that commercially-grown wheat and rye causes harm to animals -- from combines (squashing, slicing, dicing, etc.), irrigation (drowning), clearing fields at harvest (predation), burning (farmers often burn fields following harvest), pesticides (fields, storage facilities), pollution from equipment (diesel exhaust is toxic), etc. But you have your Utopian fantasies about "what could be" rather than "what is." Keep avoiding reality, putz. It wouldn't suit you. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Joe wrote:
<...> > Maybe I don't agree with alot of what Usual S comments about, but his > posts at the very least usually has 'stocky' substance. Which is more than can be said about your asinine replies lately. WTF is this bullshit about "monosaturated" fats you were passing off? Do you really think that makes you appear intelligent? And then you wanted to argue whether fruits are actually vegetables. Talk about a waste of space. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> No, it's patently false. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One more time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Stop trying to change the subject. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The subject is vegetable production >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, >> >> >> >> No, > > > I can assure you it is. No, you cannot. The issue is still WHEAT and RYE. You haven't grown it, and you stubbornly refuse to admit that commmercially-grown crops are not death-free -- because that prove you're a liar. But that's okay. We know you are. >> **** > > Now that sort of language isn't called for It suits you quite well: Used as a disparaging term for a person one dislikes or finds extremely disagreeable. http://www.answers.com/topic/**** > <cut> > >>> it's about vegetable production and the simple fact >>> that vegetarians can eat without having to kill animals. >> >> You have a problem: animals *do* die in the normal course of >> commercial-scale agriculture. > > They might do, You have a problem: animals *do* die in the normal course of commercial-scale agriculture. Your sophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate incessantly about not harming animals, is specious and meaningless since it's fantasy-based rather than reality-based. The reality of farming doesn't match your fantastical notions of what it could be like. Never has been, never will be. Once again you've failed to address the fact that commercially-grown wheat and rye causes harm to animals -- from combines (squashing, slicing, dicing, etc.), irrigation (drowning), clearing fields at harvest (predation), burning (farmers often burn fields following harvest), pesticides (fields, storage facilities), pollution from equipment (diesel exhaust is toxic), etc. But you have your Utopian fantasies about "what could be" rather than "what is." Keep avoiding reality, putz. It wouldn't suit you. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: >> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>usual suspect wrote: >>> >>>>nemo wrote: >>> >>><cut> >>> >>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>And nothing has to die! >>> >>>That is a correct statement. >> >> ======================= >> No, it is not > > It's a perfectly true statement; nothing *has* to die > to provide vegetarians with food. ========================= No, it is not, and you have failed to prove it. > > , fool. > > Your inability to converse in a civil manner is noted, > and you've barely finished your first sentence. ======================== Your inability to accept reality is noted, killer. > > > Animals die by the millions in the >> production of veggies. > > That may be accepted as true, even without some supporting > evidence to make it true, but it takes nothing away from > the true statement, "nothing *has* to die to provide > vegetarians with food. ========================== Yet you have yet to prove that claim. Why is that? Thanks for proving that propaganda has taken over the few braincells you have. > <cut> |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Joe" > wrote in message ... > On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 13:53:37 +0000, Phil Odox > > wrote: > >> >> >>, fool. >> >>Your inability to converse in a civil manner is noted, >>and you've barely finished your first sentence. >> >> > > Really Rick, sing a different tune for once. Your severe > overuse of > Fool and Killer makes entering a dialogue with you > insignificant. ============================ Really? I call em as I see em. You post inane, foolish propaganda delusions, and you'll remain a fool. As for killer, we all are. Especially since you like to post you inane spews to usenet. That's why there are no 'real' vegans on usenet, killer. > > Maybe I don't agree with alot of what Usual S comments about, > but his > posts at the very least usually has 'stocky' substance. As for > his > attitude I find it darkly entertaining more than offensive much > like > the villainous role played of 'Bill the Butcher' in 'Gangs of > New > York'. ================================ Ah, basing reality on fiction. Quite the trait of vegans, isn't it, fool? > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure > Usenet News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via > Encryption =---- |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> Phil Odox wrote: >> >>>>> <cut> >>>>> >>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>> >>>> >>>> No, it's patently false. >>>> >>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >> >> >> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? > > How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, you crank? > Many vegetables can be grown to live on without killing > animals. > Nothing *has* to die. ====================================== ROTFLMAO What a hoot! You can't even stay with the post. Now you have to amend it, just to try to say something, and you have yet to prove your claims... |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> Phil Odox wrote: >> >>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No, it's patently false. >>>>>> >>>>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>> >>> >>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >> >> >> One more time. > > How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, you crank? > Many vegetables can be grown to live on without killing > animals. > Nothing *has* to die. > >> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," > > What about them? Are you honest enough to admit that vegetables > and fruits can be produced without killing animals? ================================ Not in quantities that will keep you alive, fool, and not in all cases. > > you ****? > > Oh dear; I'm dealing with another juvenile delinquent. ======================= No, you're just another of a long line of ignorant fools... |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> Phil Odox wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, it's patently false. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >>>> >>>> >>>> One more time. >>> >>> >>> How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees >> >> >> Stop trying to change the subject. > > The subject is vegetable production ====================== No, that wasn't the original post, fool.. and the fact that it doesn't > have to be the cause of any animal deaths. I asked you if you > were > honest enough to admit that fact, but it seems you aren't. Oh > well. > > <cut> |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > wrote: >> On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:14:47 +0000, Phil Odox > >> wrote: >> >> >>>usual suspect wrote: >>> >>>>nemo wrote: >>> >>><cut> >>> >>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>And nothing has to die! >>> >>>That is a correct statement. >>> >>> >>>>Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a >>>>result of the farming, transportation, and storage practices >>>>associated with grains. Many of the deaths are intentional >>>>(i.e., pesticides). Others aren't intentional (e.g., flooding >>>>during irrigation, burning fields, predation when croplands >>>>are harvested, slicing and dicing during planting and >>>>harvest, etc.). >>> >>>That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >>>nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >>>vegetarians with food. >> >> >> well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. > Nothing with any real sentience to take into account. ============================ LOL Now, ask her if it was mice or voles that were eating her food if she would still choose herself. You're just one more ignorant brainwashed fool. > >> rick and usual suspect are best ignored as whackos. > > I got that message loud and clear before you told me, but > thanks > for warning me anyway. ;-) ======================= You should know all about whack jobs, fool.. > >> I think >> it's mostly a matter of doing relatively less harm, than you >> would >> if you weren't vegan. >> > I agree, and furthermore being vegetarian means animals don't > have > to die for our food, even though some may die on occasion > during the > process of producing and transporting it. > ================================ Animals by the millions die in the production of your veggies, hypocrite. They even die for your entertainment here on usenet. But then, we already knew that animals weren't any real concern to you. Just spewing the same brainwashed propaganda was all you have in mind... >> I tried to grow some zuchhini over the summer, and the plants >> all got killed by bugs, before I got around to buying >> something to fend them >> off. If it's me or them, naturally I will pick me. When you >> do the >> growing yourself, it puts things in a slightly different >> perspective. > I've hardly anything worth boasting about this year. A > summer-long > hose pipe ban didn't help much. > >> tracy >> >> PS I think cutting out all dairy really is helping me already. >> wow. > I started off by cutting out all dairy products when going > vegetarian. > Shortly after that I moved next door to a goat keeper and > started drinking > about three pints a week. My neighbour suffered a stroke about > two years > ago and gave up keeping them, and since then I've noticed > higher energy > levels similar to those I experienced when first going > vegetarian. |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> Phil Odox wrote: >> >>>>>> <cut> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die >>>>>>> as a result of the farming, transportation, and storage >>>>>>> practices associated with grains. Many of the deaths are >>>>>>> intentional (i.e., pesticides). Others aren't intentional >>>>>>> (e.g., flooding during irrigation, burning fields, >>>>>>> predation when croplands are harvested, slicing and >>>>>>> dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >>>>>> nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >>>>>> vegetarians with food. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Has to die" is meaningless sophistry when you know damn >>>> well that animals DO die in the normal course of >>>> commercial-scale agriculture. >>>> >>> They might, >> >> >> They do die in the NORMAL course of commercial-scale >> agriculture. > > That may be so, occasionally, but are you honest enough to > say that they don't have to? So far you've shown that you > aren't. ============================= Not as long as you refuse to admit facts, killer. "Occasionlly" What a hoot!!! How many millions of pounds of pesticides are used on farms, storage areas, and processors every year, fool? Do you know how many voles can live on one acre of a farm? What are you afraid of? ========================= Nothing you have to offer, fool. > > Your >> sophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate >> incessantly about not harming animals, is specious and >> meaningless since it's fantasy-based rather than >> reality-based. > > I've grown tons of the stuff during my life without killing > animals. There's nothing unrealistic about that. ============================== That I'll say is a ly, killer... > > <cut> |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die as a >>>>>>>>> result of the farming, transportation, and storage practices >>>>>>>>> associated with grains. Many of the deaths are intentional >>>>>>>>> (i.e., pesticides). Others aren't intentional (e.g., flooding >>>>>>>>> during irrigation, burning fields, predation when croplands are >>>>>>>>> harvested, slicing and dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >>>>>>>> nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >>>>>>>> vegetarians with food. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Has to die" is meaningless sophistry when you know damn well that >>>>>> animals DO die in the normal course of commercial-scale agriculture. >>>>>> >>>>> They might, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They do die in the NORMAL course of commercial-scale agriculture. >>> >>> >>> >>> That may be so, >> >> >> >> It is so. >> >>> occasionally, >> >> >> >> Wrong. NORMALLY. ROUTINELY. > > No, Yes. > and even then we still have the fact > that they didn't have to. That's a wish, not a fact. >>>> Yoursophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate incessantly >>>> about not harming animals, is specious and meaningless since it's >>>> fantasy-based rather than reality-based. >>> >>> >>> >>> I've grown tons of the stuff >> >> >> >> Liar > > You're very quick to call everyone you disagree with a liar, Wrong, not everyone. You haven't grown TONS of anything, and you claim you have. That makes you a liar. Liar. > and in this instance you have no way of knowing whether I've > grown vegetables or not. I have reason to doubt you've grown TONS of them. >> and yet again you've failed to address the fact that >> commercially-grown wheat and rye causes harm to animals > > That might well be true It IS true, pansy. And since it IS true, all your sophistry about whether or not animals had to die is specious and wishful thinking. They DO die, and they die in the NORMAL course of producing food for vegetarians. |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> Phil Odox wrote: >> >>>>>>>> <cut> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO >>>>>>>>> die as a result of the farming, transportation, and >>>>>>>>> storage practices associated with grains. Many of the >>>>>>>>> deaths are intentional (i.e., pesticides). Others >>>>>>>>> aren't intentional (e.g., flooding during irrigation, >>>>>>>>> burning fields, predation when croplands are harvested, >>>>>>>>> slicing and dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to >>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>> vegetarians with food. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Has to die" is meaningless sophistry when you know damn >>>>>> well that animals DO die in the normal course of >>>>>> commercial-scale agriculture. >>>>>> >>>>> They might, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They do die in the NORMAL course of commercial-scale >>>> agriculture. >>> >>> >>> That may be so, >> >> >> It is so. >> >>> occasionally, >> >> >> Wrong. NORMALLY. ROUTINELY. >> > No, only occasionally, and even then we still have the fact > that they didn't have to. ==================================== No fool, routinely and, in many cases, deliberately. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > >>>> Yoursophistry, as noble as you may think it is to prate >>>> incessantly about not harming animals, is specious and >>>> meaningless since it's fantasy-based rather than >>>> reality-based. >>> >>> >>> I've grown tons of the stuff >> >> >> Liar > > You're very quick to call everyone you disagree with a liar, > and in this instance you have no way of knowing whether I've > grown vegetables or not. You know, when publicly calling > someone a liar it's often done to discredit that person, but > when you do it you have the knack of discrediting yourself > instead. > ========================== In this case, truth... > , and yet again you've failed to address the fact that >> commercially-grown wheat and rye causes harm to animals > > That might well be true on some occasions, but not all, and > on the occasions where they do, they didn't have to. > > > <cut> |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: >> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>rick wrote: >>> >>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... >>>> >>>> >>>>>usual suspect wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>nemo wrote: >>>>> >>>>><cut> >>>>> >>>>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>And nothing has to die! >>>>> >>>>>That is a correct statement. >>>> >>>>======================= >>>>No, it is not >>> >>>It's a perfectly true statement; nothing *has* to die >>>to provide vegetarians with food. >> >> ========================= >> No, it is not, and you have failed to prove it. >> > I've proved it many times over the years by growing quite a > fair bit of veg, and no animals died during it's production. > Animals don't have to die in order for vegetarians to eat. ======================== Not if you want to live. > > >> >>>, fool. >>> >>>Your inability to converse in a civil manner is noted, >>>and you've barely finished your first sentence. >> >> ======================== >> Your inability to accept reality is noted, killer. >> > The reality is your shame and lack of courage to admit the > fact that vegetarians can eat food without killing animals. > <cut> ============================== Not in any amounts that will feed them, fool. And, as to the original post that started this, it was about celebrating a holiday, and it was posted on usenet. The fact remains that it was all a ly. Except maybe the part about him and puds. Quite a number of vegans seem to lean towards that... Must be the diet, eh fool? http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > usual suspect wrote: >> Phil Odox wrote: >> >>>>> <cut> >>>>> >>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>> >>>> >>>> No, it's patently false. >>>> >>> I've grown plenty of vegetables >> >> >> How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? > > How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, you crank? > Many vegetables can be grown to live on without killing > animals. > Nothing *has* to die. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: >> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>usual suspect wrote: >>> >>>>Phil Odox wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>><cut> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>>And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>No, it's patently false. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >>>> >>>> >>>>One more time. >>> >>>How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, you >>>crank? >>>Many vegetables can be grown to live on without killing >>>animals. >>>Nothing *has* to die. >>> >>> >>>>How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," >>> >>>What about them? Are you honest enough to admit that >>>vegetables >>>and fruits can be produced without killing animals? >> >> ================================ >> Not in quantities that will keep you alive > > Yes, even that. Animals don't have to die in vegetable > production. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html |
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>> <cut> >>>>> >>>>>>> Savory made from nuts >>>>>>> Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>> Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>> And nothing has to die! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That is a correct statement. >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================= >>>> No, it is not >>> >>> >>> It's a perfectly true statement; nothing *has* to die >>> to provide vegetarians with food. >> >> >> ========================= >> No, it is not, and you have failed to prove it. > > I've proved it many times No, you've grown only enough for yourself -- and I bet you haven't grown 100% of the food consumed in your household. The more commercially-grown food you consume, the greater the number of animals injured, poisoned, or killed for your diet. That pile of dead and wounded animals, if you had the guts to even start to count through it, is the evidence that a vegetarian diet is a meaningless gesture if the criterion for not harming animals actually means NOT HARMING ANIMALS. If you consider harm to animals to be a moral issue, your virtue isn't based on your pipedreams about mythical production that doesn't harm animals, but on your actual consumption and how that consumption affects animals. You get some reprieve to the extent that you grow some of your own food. But since you likely consume foods that are grown on a commercial scale (e.g., grains and legumes) and stored (where health codes REQUIRE proactive pest control), you DO kill animals through your consumption. That makes you no better than someone who eats meat by your own criterion. > Animals don't have to die in order for vegetarians to eat. That's your mythical little pipedream. In the real world, standard vegetarian diets cause animal deaths. >> Your inability to accept reality is noted, killer. >> > The reality is your shame and lack of courage to admit the > fact that vegetarians can eat food without killing animals. You have a higher hurdle to jump since standard vegetarian diets cause animal deaths, and in great quantities. |
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
<...> > Animals don't have to die in vegetable production. But they *do*. That makes vegetarians who claim some form of virtue arising from a meatless diet to be hypocrites. > <cut> |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: >> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>usual suspect wrote: >>> >>>>Phil Odox wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><cut> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>>>>And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>No, it's patently false. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I've grown plenty of vegetables >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>How about "Breadcrumbs *wheat* and *rye*," you imbecile? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>One more time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>How about potatoes, swedes and fruit grown on trees >>>> >>>> >>>>Stop trying to change the subject. >>> >>>The subject is vegetable production >> >> ====================== >> No, that wasn't the original post, fool.. >> > It is now, and I see that none of you have the courage to > say aloud that animals don't have to die in order to > produce vegetables for vegans. ============================ For you to live, yes it does. that you can handgrow a few meals means nothing, fool. It is because you can't say > the same about your food? Is the shame which surrounds your > diet on meat stopping you from being honest about vegetarian > food? http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > <cut> |
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
>> Animals by the millions die in the production of your veggies > > I don't believe that the numbers are that high, They are. > and even if they > were, they didn't have to die. Vegetables and fruit can be grown > without killing animals, Yet they are. > so if one has a moral conscience and > can't bring themselves to intentionally kill them, Causing collateral death or injury through personal consumption doesn't exculpate a vegetarian consumer from any moral guilt for them. > the best and > only option is to eat vegetables instead. Bullshit. http://www.scienceblog.com/community.../20024572.html > Do you have the courage Do YOU have the courage to admit that your paradigm of "I don't harm animals if I don't eat them" could be flawed, and that other paradigms that include eating certain kinds of meat (see link above) could cause less harm? |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: > <cut> > >> Animals by the millions die in the production of your veggies > > I don't believe that the numbers are that high, ============================ Willful ignorance. The trademark of veg*ns everywhere... and even if they > were, they didn't have to die. =============================== Yes, they did. The world cannot be fed on your fantasy, and neither can you, killer. Vegetables and fruit can be grown > without killing animals, so if one has a moral conscience and > can't bring themselves to intentionally kill them, the best and > only option is to eat vegetables instead. Do you have the > courage > to admit that fact, or are you too ashamed? =========================== Not at all. You are the one too ashemaed to admit their bloody footprints, hypocrite... http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > > <cut> |
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
<...> > It's a basic fact > that vegetation can be produced without killing animals. It's *not* a fact, it's only the dream of a navel-gazing putz who can't get his head far enough out of his own ass to see the real world. |
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Something for Chrismas
BTW...
Why did you ignore this? The more commercially-grown food you consume, the greater the number of animals injured, poisoned, or killed for your diet. That pile of dead and wounded animals, if you had the guts to even start to count through it, is the evidence that a vegetarian diet is a meaningless gesture if the criterion for not harming animals actually means NOT HARMING ANIMALS. If you consider harm to animals to be a moral issue, your virtue isn't based on your pipedreams about mythical production that doesn't harm animals, but on your actual consumption and how that consumption affects animals. You get some reprieve to the extent that you grow some of your own food. But since you likely consume foods that are grown on a commercial scale (e.g., grains and legumes) and stored (where health codes REQUIRE proactive pest control), you DO kill animals through your consumption. That makes you no better than someone who eats meat by your own criterion. > I've grown enough for myself and others when I had the time, You also bought food to supplement what you grew (probably the other way around: you supplemented your normal store-bought diet with some of the produce from your little garden). Why do you avoid discussing your own moral responsibility for causing ANY animal injuries and deaths via your personal consumption of commercially-grown, -stored, and -processed foods and focus only on those who consume meat? You kill animals, they kill animals. You're in the same ****ing boat. |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: >> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>usual suspect wrote: >>> >>>>Phil Odox wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><cut> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>>And nothing has to die! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That is a correct statement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Guess again, you prancing poof. Plenty of animals DO die >>>>>>>>>as a result of the farming, transportation, and storage >>>>>>>>>practices associated with grains. Many of the deaths are >>>>>>>>>intentional (i.e., pesticides). Others aren't >>>>>>>>>intentional (e.g., flooding during irrigation, burning >>>>>>>>>fields, predation when croplands are harvested, slicing >>>>>>>>>and dicing during planting and harvest, etc.). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That maybe so, but the it doesn't take anything away from >>>>>>>>nemo's correct statement; nothing *has* to die to provide >>>>>>>>vegetarians with food. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>well, you mean nothing with a face has to die. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>"Has to die" is meaningless sophistry when you know damn >>>>>>well that animals DO die in the normal course of >>>>>>commercial-scale agriculture. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>They might, >>>> >>>> >>>>They do die in the NORMAL course of commercial-scale >>>>agriculture. >>> >>>That may be so, occasionally, but are you honest enough to >>>say that they don't have to? So far you've shown that you >>>aren't. >> >> ============================= >> Not as long as you refuse to admit facts, killer. > > Then it's certain you're aware of the fact but won't give in to > it unless I agree with something you say first. That's > hilarious. > Why are you so ashamed of your diet on meat, Rick? ======================= LOL It is you that is unwilling to admit your bloody footprints, killer. I have always admited that I kill. Why do you continue to delude yourself, hypocrite? Afterall, here you are posting your ignorance on usenet, uneccessarily killing animals for no more reason than your entertainment. > >> "Occasionlly" > > Rather than *all the time*, as you seem to be insisting, yes. ============================== Yes, ALL the time, fool. Routinely, systematically, and deliberately. > >> What a hoot!!! How many millions of pounds of pesticides are >> used on farms, storage areas, and processors every year > > I've grown veg without the use of any pesticides at all for > years. > It can be grown without it. Animals don't have to die in order > to > provide vegetarians with food. =========================== Not and provide you with anywhere near the amount you need to live. Your fantacy doesn't equate to reality... > >> >> What are you afraid of? >> ========================= >> Nothing you have to offer, fool. >> > That's false. Your shame has made you incapable of being honest > concerning vegetarian diets, so much so that you can't even > bring > yourself to admit basic truths about it. =========== No it has not. Your dogmatic brainwashing has made you unaware of the reality of veg*n diets. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html |
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Something for Chrismas
Phil Odox wrote:
<...> > Your shame has made you incapable of being honest > concerning vegetarian diets, You're the one who's being dishonest about it by prating about your fantasy about no-harm farming rather than blood-and-guts real-world farming and the dead animals accepted as a normal consequence of agriculture. What goes unaccounted for in Regan's vegan conclusion, according to Davis, is the number of animals who are inadvertently killed during crop production and harvest. "Vegan diets are not bloodless diets," Davis said. "Millions of animals die every year to provide products used in vegan diets." "Over the years that I have been studying animal rights theories, I have never found anyone who has considered the deaths of - or, the 'harm' to - animals of the field," Davis said. "This, it seems to me, is a serious omission." Consequently, Davis asks what is the morally relevant difference between the field mouse and the cow that makes it okay to kill one but not the other so that humans may eat. Few studies document the losses of rabbits, mice, pheasants, snakes and other field animals in planting and harvesting crops. Said one researcher: "Because most of these animals have been seen as expendable, or not seen at all, few scientific studies have been done measuring agriculture's effects on their populations." Davis has found evidence that suggests that the unseen losses of field animals are very high. One study documented that a single operation, mowing alfalfa, caused a 50 percent reduction in the gray-tailed vole population. Mortality rates increase with every pass of the tractor to plow, plant, and harvest. Additions of herbicides and pesticides cause additional harm to animals of the field.... Davis proposes a ruminant-pasture model of food production, which would replace all poultry, pig and lamb production with beef and dairy products. According to his calculations, such a model would result in the deaths of 300 million fewer animals annually (counting both field animals and cattle) than would a total vegan model. This difference, according to Davis, is mainly the result of fewer field animals killed in pasture and forage production than in the growing and harvest of grain, beans, and corn. Applying the Least Harm Principle, Davis argues that people may be morally obliged to consume a diet based on plants and grazing ruminants in order to cause the least harm to animals. http://www.scienceblog.com/community.../20024572.html You also need to respond to what I wrote: The more commercially-grown food you consume, the greater the number of animals injured, poisoned, or killed for your diet. That pile of dead and wounded animals, if you had the guts to even start to count through it, is the evidence that a vegetarian diet is a meaningless gesture if the criterion for not harming animals actually means NOT HARMING ANIMALS. If you consider harm to animals to be a moral issue, your virtue isn't based on your pipedreams about mythical production that doesn't harm animals, but on your actual consumption and how that consumption affects animals. You get some reprieve to the extent that you grow some of your own food. But since you likely consume foods that are grown on a commercial scale (e.g., grains and legumes) and stored (where health codes REQUIRE proactive pest control), you DO kill animals through your consumption. That makes you no better than someone who eats meat by your own criterion. You're a poseur. Don't be offended or feel alone. You're neither the first nor the last. The question is whether you'll be honest enough about it to do something about it or if you'll continue spouting off your delusional platitudes. |
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Something for Chrismas
"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... > rick wrote: >> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>rick wrote: >>> >>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... >>>> >>>> >>>>>rick wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message ... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>usual suspect wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>nemo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>><cut> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Savory made from nuts >>>>>>>>>Breadcrumbs wheat and rye. >>>>>>>>>Tastes as good, nutritious too >>>>>>>>>And nothing has to die! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That is a correct statement. >>>>>> >>>>>>======================= >>>>>>No, it is not >>>>> >>>>>It's a perfectly true statement; nothing *has* to die >>>>>to provide vegetarians with food. >>>> >>>>========================= >>>>No, it is not, and you have failed to prove it. >>>> >>> >>>I've proved it many times over the years by growing quite a >>>fair bit of veg, and no animals died during it's production. >>>Animals don't have to die in order for vegetarians to eat. >> >> ======================== >> Not if you want to live. >> > Yes, even that. When times were hard I ate only what I could > grow, > and not a single animal died during that time, which goes to > prove > that a vegetarian can eat without killing them, unlike meat > eaters. > ======================== You can ly to yourself all you want, but we don't believe your fantacy, killer. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html |
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