Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #121 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> usual suspect wrote:
>> Phil Odox wrote:
>>
>>> I've graciously accepted your claim that animals
>>> are occasionally killed

>>
>>
>> They're killed systematically.

>
> No, I don't believe that they are,

=========================
Yes, they are. By the millions upon millions, killer.


and even if they are they
> don't *have* to be.

===========================
Yes, they do, or you and the rst of the world would not survive,
hypocrite...


No animals *have* to die to produce fruit
> and vegetables, and that's what makes the vegetarian's choice
> a morally good one. Your diet on meat always entails the
> intentional killing of animals, whereas my diet on fruit and
> vegetables doesn't. Our intentions concerning our respective
> diets are poles apart, and you'll just have to live with your
> shame like every other meat eater has to.

===========================
Lying hypocrites have no superiority, fool...

> <cut.






http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html







  #122 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...

>
> <cut>
>>
>> Explain why forests the size of England
>>
>>>can grow without the use of pesticides and animal killing
>>>while
>>>apples and sprouts can't. As I've been saying all along,
>>>"Animals
>>>don't *have* to die to produce vegetables and fruits, and
>>>that's
>>>why my diet is morally superior to yours.

>>
>> =================================
>> Again, where's those fields of wild potatoes, hypocrite...
>>

> They're around, so answer the question and explain how forests
> the size of England can grow without the use of pesticides and
> killing animals while apples and sprouts can't. As I've been
> saying all along, animals don't *have* to die in order to grow
> vegetarian food, and that's why my diet is morally superior to
> your meat diet.

================
still dishonestly snipping posts that you can't answer, eh fool?
Thanks for agian proving that your position is based on lys,
delusions and willful ignorance..


http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html







  #123 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> usual suspect wrote:
>> Phil Odox wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Animals don't have to die in vegetable production.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they *do*.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Occasionally,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Every day. Normally. Systematically.
>>>
>>>
>>> But they needn't,

>>
>>
>> Wrong, they *must*.

>
> Explain how can that be while bearing in mind forest areas the
> size
> of England which existed long before we came along killing
> animals
> and using pesticides.
> <cut>
>
>>> I choose a diet which doesn't mean that animals *have*
>>> to die for my food

>>
>>
>> Rhetoric doesn't match reality.

>
> The fact that animals don't *have* to die for my food *IS* a
> reality,

======================
No, it's your delusion. If, as you claim, you are so concerned
about not killing animals needlessly, why do you continue to post
your stupidity to usenet, hypocrite? I say it's just because you
like causeing unnecessary animal death and love the blood on you
hands, eh killer?

> and while I continue to eat vegetables for ethical reasons,
> those
> ethical standards behind my reasons are reached. Unlike you,
> when I
> buy my food I don't intend to kill animals. Intent is
> everything
> when making moral decisions, and yours is a bad one.
> <cut>

===================
No fool, actions are everything when making a decision.
Intentions mean nothing when they are based on delusion, lys, and
stupidity. You know that the choices you make cause massive
animal death and suffering, yet you make them anyway, hypocrite.
You have no moral basis to gloat, killer...




http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html







  #124 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>>><cut>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Animals by the millions die in the production of your
>>>>>>>>>>veggies
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't believe that the numbers are that high,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>============================
>>>>>>>>Willful ignorance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Then provide evidence pertaining to these numbers and
>>>>>>>enlighten me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>========================
>>>>>>ROTFLMAO Why fool? You've been snipping them out all
>>>>>>night, killer....
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Your list of pesticides doesn't include any evidence apart
>>>>>from
>>>>>some guesswork by the pesticide manufacturers. That isn't
>>>>>evidence
>>>>>of the millions you've claimed exists.
>>>>
>>>>=================================
>>>>ROTFLMAO Thanks for proving that your dogma requires you to
>>>>ignore the truth.
>>>
>>>Guesses aren't truths, and that's all you've supplied to
>>>back your claim, and that's why your claim is rejected.

>>
>> ==========================
>> LOL The only guesses are the ones you try to make in saying
>> that the sites I post don't provide data.

>
> They provide data, but they don't support the huge numbers
> you've
> claimed. Those sites only make a guess, and guesses aren't
> facts.
> Your claim is therefore debunked as a meaningless guestimate.

===================
I see you didn't read them, eh fool. many provide real, actual
counts. Too bad your too brainwashed to be avble to reasd for
comprehension, eh hypocrite?

dishonest snipping noted, again, fool...
restore
LOL The only guesses are the ones you try to make in saying that
the sites I post don't provide data. Too bad for you that those
that care, and those that can read for comprenesion can see that
they provide real numbers. Real numbers of dead bodies to
provide for your hypocritical lifestyle, killer.
dishonestly snipping still I see, killer. You have realized that
you lost, eh fool?
---
The sites I posted are not from manufacturers,
fool. And all the sites are not about pesticides. But then, a
usenet vegan wannbe has never let facts get in the way of a good
fantasy and delusions, right hypocrite?
----


It's just that your fantasy isn't reality and the way that the
veggies you eat are grown. It's a strawman. It's a house of
cards built
so that you can pretend to feel better than anybody else, despite
your obvious hypocrisy.

http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html



  #125 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> usual suspect wrote:
>> Phil Odox wrote:
>> <...>
>>
>>> I've dealt with your repeated list of pesticides a while ago
>>> by telling you that such measures aren't at all necessary to
>>> grow vegetables,

>>
>>
>> They *are* necessary

>
> No they aren't. Whole forests grow around the world without the
> use of any pesticides at all, and without our having to kill
> animals, so to claim that vegetables cannot grow without
> killing
> any animals or the use of pesticides is a lie and easily
> debunked.

========================
Then do it fool.

> Your attempt to drag vegetarians down to your level by
> insisting
> they kill animals shows you know that the killing of animals is
> wrong and that what you do is immoral. That's why you're here
> on
> a vegetarian board; you want to throw sticks at those who
> occupy
> a higher moral status than you.

==========================
ROTFLMAO Your twisting in the wind is all the proof we need to
know that it is youn that feels guilty about all the animals you
kill, fool. Normal, sane people understand that animals die for
us to live. That the insane vegans like you try to play games
with yourself to pretend that it isn't so is very amusing to
watch. You twist ytourself into knots trying to blame anybody
but yourself. Too bad your too willfully ignorant to see the
truth, killer.



It's just that your fantasy isn't reality and the way that the
veggies you eat are grown. It's a strawman. It's a house of
cards built
so that you can pretend to feel better than anybody else, despite
your obvious hypocrisy.

http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html





  #126 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas

Joe wrote:

RESTORE FOR CONTINUITY:
>>>>IOW, it shows you something about the real world as opposed to the
>>>>Utopian delusion so prevalent among vegans.
>>>
>>>Right now, EVERYONE who grows vast amouts of vegetables/herbs in
>>>their backyards, balconies, rented mini-land plots, etc.,

END RESTORE

>>"Vast amounts" isn't a term I associate with herbs grown on a balcony.
>>It also has nothing to do with the point I raised with respect to
>>Tracy's failed attempts to grow zucchini
>>
>>>That comment addressed Tracy's

>>realization that killing things is part and parcel of the cycle of life
>>-- including growing food for vegetarians.

>
> Ok, I see your points as detailed..... understood. [ I'd even
> apologise under a more civil climate].


Thanks for sparing me the agony of accepting it, ****. Now when was the
last time you saw "vast amounts of vegetables/herbs" grown on a balcony?
  #127 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas

Dreck wrote:
>> Self-crippled ex-greasemonkey and British cuckold Derek Nash wrote:

>
> And what's that supposed to mean?


You wrote last month that you were giving up usenet (for the umpteenth
time).

I don't watch much tele. In fact I don't think many people
on Usenet do. I'm going to take your advice though and
quit it today. I've gained all I can from it over the last five
years, thanks largely to you it must be said, and it's time
for me to move on to something completely different. Only
time will tell you how sincere I am about this decision. You
can certainly count on it though, so I'll say cheerio and hope
you wont think you've been a complete waste of my time.
-- Dreck Nash, 6 Oct 05: http://tinyurl.com/asu8d

"Only time will tell you how sincere I am about this decision,"
you've established your astounding level of insincerity by quickly
returning with yet another nym (but the same MO), so I'm compelled by
good taste to forbid you to waste my time with your chronic
shit-stirring. I will not enable you, fatso.
  #128 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas

Dreck wrote:
>>>> Self-crippled ex-greasemonkey and British cuckold Derek Nash wrote:
>>>
>>> And what's that supposed to mean?

>>
>> You wrote last month that you were giving up usenet

>
> No, I'm not Derek Nash,


Liar.
  #129 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><cut>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Animals aren't killed while
>>>>>>>>>>>producers grown every single piece of fruit or
>>>>>>>>>>>vegetable.
>>>>>>>>>>><cut>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>============================
>>>>>>>>>>OK Then just the ones that keep you alive, fool
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>At long last; you've finally mustered the courage to
>>>>>>>>>admit the
>>>>>>>>>fact that vegetables can be grown without killing
>>>>>>>>>animals to
>>>>>>>>>keep one alive. Now that that's settled, explain why I
>>>>>>>>>or any
>>>>>>>>>vegetarian is a hypocrite for following a diet which
>>>>>>>>>doesn't
>>>>>>>>>always require the deaths of animals.
>>>>>>>>>_________________________________________ ______________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt...281f601?hl=en&
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Like I said, "when I told you, "Animals aren't killed
>>>>>>>>>while
>>>>>>>>>producers grow every single piece of fruit or
>>>>>>>>>vegetable.",
>>>>>>>>>you replied, "OK Then just the ones that keep you
>>>>>>>>>alive,
>>>>>>>>>fool.""
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You failed to respond to the actual post, and that
>>>>>>>>>failure
>>>>>>>>>is because you've admitted that vegetables can be
>>>>>>>>>produced
>>>>>>>>>without killing animals, though not enough to keep me
>>>>>>>>>alive.
>>>>>>>>>That is an admission that some vegetables can be
>>>>>>>>>produced
>>>>>>>>>with killing animals, so you can just stop the rest of
>>>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>>>denials right now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>================
>>>>>>>>The denials are all still yours, killer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>They're all yours, even after being shown where you
>>>>>>>conceded.
>>>>>>>Now that's a bit odd. Tell me how forests exist without
>>>>>>>human
>>>>>>>intervention and the use of pesticides, and then tell me
>>>>>>>again
>>>>>>>why potatoes can't also be grown without killing animals
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>the use of pesticides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>==================
>>>>>>Tell me again how you propose to live on these items
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>By eating them, of course.
>>>>
>>>>=======================
>>>>But you don't
>>>
>>>Yes I do, so tell me how forest can exist without our
>>>pesticides
>>>and animal killing while vegetables can't.
>>>

> Evasion noted and your claim debunked.
> =========================

Nope. Not by you, killer...


>>>
>>>> You haven't told me how forests exist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>without human intervention yet,
>>>>
>>>>========================
>>>>You haven't told me where all those fields of wild potatoes
>>>>are either
>>>
>>>They're around, because it's not impossible to grow them
>>>without
>>>killing animals or using pesticides. Vegetables existed long
>>>before
>>>we came along with our pesticides and animal-killing poisons,
>>>so
>>>when you claim vegetables can't be grown without causing
>>>deaths,
>>>that claim is a lie built on the shame you feel as a meat
>>>eater.

>>
>> ===================================
>> Not in the forms that we eat now fool.

>
> That's not for you to say, but it's clear now that you're at
> least aware of the fact that vegetables and fruits *can* grow
> without humans killing animals and using pesticides.
> <cut>

===============================
Nope. Not the ones you eat, hypocrite...

>
>>>> including those pesticides and
>>>>>animal fatalities which you claim are vital to grow
>>>>>vegetables.
>>>>>As I've been saying all along - animals don't have to die.
>>>>>The
>>>>>shame you feel concerning your diet on meat won't allow you
>>>>>to
>>>>>concede it again like you earlier did, but that's irrelevant
>>>>>now.
>>>>>The fact is that vegetables and fruits and forests the size
>>>>>of
>>>>>England can and do grow without us having to kill animals
>>>>>and
>>>>>lay down pesticides. They don't have to die for my food, but
>>>>>they do for yours, and that why my diet is morally superior.
>>>>
>>>>=============================
>>>>ROTFLMAO Says the hypocrite of the month winner.
>>>
>>>No, says reason.

>>
>> =====================
>> You have no morals to stand on liar.

>
> I haven't lied by claiming vegetables can grow without our
> having to kill animals and use pesticides. You've lied by
> claiming they can't grow without those interventions, and
> there's the lie. Your shame is urging you to lie about the
> vegetarian's food so you can then go on to try and bring
> them down to your inferior level by claiming they *have* to
> kill animals for their food like you do, and that's just
> not going to work. It only reveals more of your shame instead.
> <cut>
>
> >>Animals don't *have* to die to produce vegetables
>>>and fruits, but your shame compels you to give the impression
>>>that they do so that you can then claim that vegetarians also
>>>eat a diet that *has* to kill animals. That's not going to
>>>work.

>>
>> ================================
>> Yes, it does

>
> No, it doesn't work. All you doing here is proving your shame.

================================
Yes, it does, because animals die by the millions and millions to
feed you, and provide for your entertainment. Yet here you are,
eating up every veggies you can and posting your inane crap while
your hands are dripping with blood.
Have a nice day hypocrite.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html








  #130 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>
>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I've graciously accepted your claim that animals
>>>>>are occasionally killed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They're killed systematically.
>>>
>>>No, I don't believe that they are,

>>
>> =========================
>> Yes, they are. By the millions upon millions, killer.
>>

> No, I don't believe they're that prevalent. If they are, they
> needn't be.
> =======================

Then you can't read afterall. Thanks for the proof, killer.


>>
>> and even if they are they
>>
>>>don't *have* to be.

>>
>> ===========================
>> Yes, they do

>
> No, they don't have to be. Ancient forests existed before
> we arrived killing animals and using pesticides, and many
> of these forests contain vegetarian foods, so to claim
> vegetable and fruits can't grow unless we kill animals and
> use pesticides in light of this forest example is a lie.
> <cut>
>
>> No animals *have* to die to produce fruit
>>
>>>and vegetables, and that's what makes the vegetarian's choice
>>>a morally good one. Your diet on meat always entails the
>>>intentional killing of animals, whereas my diet on fruit and
>>>vegetables doesn't. Our intentions concerning our respective
>>>diets are poles apart, and you'll just have to live with your
>>>shame like every other meat eater has to.

>>
>> ===========================
>> Lying hypocrites have no superiority, fool...

>
> That's you, Rick: a lying hypocrite. No animals *have* to
> die for vegetarians to eat, but your shame surrounding your
> diet on meat stops you from publicly admitting it, even when
> bearing the forest example in mind. Bringing yourself to admit
> that a vegetarian *can* eat without killing animals just kills
> you dead with anger and frustration, so you'll keep denying
> this
> simple fact until the proverbial cows come home, even if it
> means
> making yourself the village idiot. I've never seen such denial
> and blatant stupidity before now, and I've been around a bit, I
> can tell you that.

================================
Yes, it does, because animals die by the millions and millions to
feed you, and provide for your entertainment. Yet here you are,
eating up every veggies you can and posting your inane crap while
your hands are dripping with blood.
Have a nice day hypocrite.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html










  #131 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>><cut>
>>>
>>>> Explain why forests the size of England
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>can grow without the use of pesticides and animal killing
>>>>>while
>>>>>apples and sprouts can't. As I've been saying all along,
>>>>>"Animals
>>>>>don't *have* to die to produce vegetables and fruits, and
>>>>>that's
>>>>>why my diet is morally superior to yours.
>>>>
>>>>=================================
>>>>Again, where's those fields of wild potatoes, hypocrite...
>>>>
>>>
>>>They're around, so answer the question and explain how forests
>>>the size of England can grow without the use of pesticides and
>>>killing animals while apples and sprouts can't. As I've been
>>>saying all along, animals don't *have* to die in order to grow
>>>vegetarian food, and that's why my diet is morally superior to
>>>your meat diet.

>>
>> ================
>> still dishonestly snipping posts

>
> Yes. Now answer the question and explain how forests the size
> of
> England can grow without the use of pesticides and killing
> animals
> while apples and sprouts can't. As I've been saying all along,
> animals don't *have* to die in order to grow vegetarian food,
> and
> that's why my diet is morally superior to your meat diet.
> <cut>

================================
Yes, they do, because animals die by the millions and millions to
feed you, and provide for your entertainment. Yet here you are,
eating up every veggies you can and posting your inane crap while
your hands are dripping with blood.
Have a nice day hypocrite.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html








  #132 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>
>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Animals don't have to die in vegetable production.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>But they *do*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Occasionally,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Every day. Normally. Systematically.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But they needn't,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wrong, they *must*.
>>>
>>>Explain how can that be while bearing in mind forest areas the
>>>size
>>>of England which existed long before we came along killing
>>>animals
>>>and using pesticides.
>>><cut>
>>>

> No answer for that, eh killer?
>
>>>>>I choose a diet which doesn't mean that animals *have*
>>>>>to die for my food
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Rhetoric doesn't match reality.
>>>
>>>The fact that animals don't *have* to die for my food *IS* a
>>>reality,

>>
>> ======================
>> No, it's your delusion.

>
> No, it's a reality that you daren't admit is true because your
> shame wont allow you.

==========================
LOL I have nothing to be shamed of fool. I accept that animals
die for my life. You, on the other hand, are so guilt ridden
because of the massive death toll for your life that you have
reverted to blubbering delusions... Just ask Aristotle how bad
you are, killer..


>
>>
>>>and while I continue to eat vegetables for ethical reasons,
>>>those
>>>ethical standards behind my reasons are reached. Unlike you,
>>>when I
>>>buy my food I don't intend to kill animals. Intent is
>>>everything
>>>when making moral decisions, and yours is a bad one.
>>><cut>

>>
>> ===================
>> No fool

>
> Yes, and you know it, which is why you try to throw sticks at
> your
> moral superiors. You can't honestly deny the fact that
> vegetarians
> can eat without killing animals in light of the ancient forest
> example I gave you, so it's useless to put off publicly
> announcing
> this fact any longer. All those you tried to bully here are
> waiting
> to see if you and usual suspect have the courage to concede
> this
> simple fact, and so far, all you've done is reveal your shame
> by
> refusing to.

================================
Animals die by the millions and millions to
feed you, and provide for your entertainment. Yet here you are,
eating up every veggies you can and posting your inane crap while
your hands are dripping with blood.
Have a nice day hypocrite.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html








  #133 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>><cut>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Animals by the millions die in the production of your
>>>>>>>>>>>>veggies
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I don't believe that the numbers are that high,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>============================
>>>>>>>>>>Willful ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Then provide evidence pertaining to these numbers and
>>>>>>>>>enlighten me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>========================
>>>>>>>>ROTFLMAO Why fool? You've been snipping them out all
>>>>>>>>night, killer....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your list of pesticides doesn't include any evidence apart
>>>>>>>from
>>>>>>>some guesswork by the pesticide manufacturers. That isn't
>>>>>>>evidence
>>>>>>>of the millions you've claimed exists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=================================
>>>>>>ROTFLMAO Thanks for proving that your dogma requires you
>>>>>>to ignore the truth.
>>>>>
>>>>>Guesses aren't truths, and that's all you've supplied to
>>>>>back your claim, and that's why your claim is rejected.
>>>>
>>>>==========================
>>>>LOL The only guesses are the ones you try to make in saying
>>>>that the sites I post don't provide data.
>>>
>>>They provide data, but they don't support the huge numbers
>>>you've
>>>claimed. Those sites only make a guess, and guesses aren't
>>>facts.
>>>Your claim is therefore debunked as a meaningless guestimate.

>>
>> ===================
>> I see you didn't read them

>
> I read the guesses they gave, and their estimates don't support
> the claims you've made. What is your reason for exaggerating
> these numbers if not an attempt to drag the vegetarian down to
> your level by implying they *have* to kill animals for food
> like
> you do? You can't even admit the fact that a vegetarian can eat
> without killing animals, so I don't know why you expect them to
> accept anything else you say here.

================================
They aren't guesses, killer.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html








  #134 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>
>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>><...>
>>>>
>>>>>I've dealt with your repeated list of pesticides a while ago
>>>>>by telling you that such measures aren't at all necessary to
>>>>>grow vegetables,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They *are* necessary
>>>
>>>No they aren't. Whole forests grow around the world without
>>>the
>>>use of any pesticides at all, and without our having to kill
>>>animals, so to claim that vegetables cannot grow without
>>>killing
>>>any animals or the use of pesticides is a lie and easily
>>>debunked.

>>
>> ========================
>> Then do it fool.
>>

> I've done so already by providing the forest example. If
> ancient
> forests can exist without our having to kill animals and the
> use
> of pesticides, then so can other vegetation such as the
> vegetables
> and fruits I eat.
>
>>
>>>Your attempt to drag vegetarians down to your level by
>>>insisting
>>>they kill animals shows you know that the killing of animals
>>>is
>>>wrong and that what you do is immoral. That's why you're here
>>>on
>>>a vegetarian board; you want to throw sticks at those who
>>>occupy
>>>a higher moral status than you.

>>
>> ==========================
>> ROTFLMAO Your twisting in the wind

>
> No, I'm explaining the reason behind your refusal to concede
> simple
> facts. Publicly admitting the fact that a vegetarian *can* eat
> without
> killing animals and using pesticides ruins your efforts to drag
> them
> down to your level, but it's something you must do if you want
> to
> convince them you have any credibility left at all.
> <cut>

================================
Thanks for again proving that animals are of no concern to you,
hypocrite.
You cannot eat without killing animals fool, because animals die
by the millions and millions to
feed you, and provide for your entertainment. Yet here you are,
eating up every veggies you can and posting your inane crap while
your hands are dripping with blood.
Have a nice day hypocrite.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html








  #135 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
Joe
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas

The least I could do was accept your feeble explaination. I thought it
might mean something to you.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:20:22 GMT, usual suspect >
wrote:


>Now when was the
>last time you saw "vast amounts of vegetables/herbs" grown on a balcony?


Well a person with a monkey brain like yours wouldn't accept the proof
of it with pictures or a guided tour.... it's all a conspiracy in your
mind. Question is do you doubt it's impossible or will you now attempt
to find an archived study in your stockpile of rainy day links that
suggest growing veggies/herbs on a balcony is out of the question.
Think about it Charmer..... it's not that hard.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


  #136 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>

> <cut>
>
>>>>>Yes I do, so tell me how forest can exist without our
>>>>>pesticides
>>>>>and animal killing while vegetables can't.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>Evasion noted and your claim debunked.
>>>=========================

>>
>> Nope.

>
> Then do as you're bid and explain how forests can exist without
> our
> pesticides and the killing of animals. Everyone knows they
> existed
> before we came along with our poisons, so it stands to reason
> that
> other plant life can exist as well. Your lies only reveal your
> shame
> rather than anything relevant to vegetarianism.

=========================
As soon as you prove all the fields of wild potatoes, fool....


> <cut>
>
>>>>>Vegetables existed long before
>>>>>we came along with our pesticides and animal-killing
>>>>>poisons, so
>>>>>when you claim vegetables can't be grown without causing
>>>>>deaths,
>>>>>that claim is a lie built on the shame you feel as a meat
>>>>>eater.
>>>>
>>>>===================================
>>>>Not in the forms that we eat now fool.
>>>
>>>That's not for you to say, but it's clear now that you're at
>>>least aware of the fact that vegetables and fruits *can* grow
>>>without humans killing animals and using pesticides.
>>><cut>

>>
>> ===============================
>> Nope.

>
> Then you are a liar, because no one can honestly deny the fact
> that vegetables can grow without the use of pesticides and
> animal deaths.

=========================
Dishonest dodging noted, killer.
Why do you continue to ly about the veggies you eat, hypocrite?
Afraid of the truth?


> <cut>
>
>>
>>>>>>including those pesticides and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>animal fatalities which you claim are vital to grow
>>>>>>>vegetables.
>>>>>>>As I've been saying all along - animals don't have to die.
>>>>>>>The
>>>>>>>shame you feel concerning your diet on meat won't allow
>>>>>>>you to
>>>>>>>concede it again like you earlier did, but that's
>>>>>>>irrelevant now.
>>>>>>>The fact is that vegetables and fruits and forests the
>>>>>>>size of
>>>>>>>England can and do grow without us having to kill animals
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>lay down pesticides. They don't have to die for my food,
>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>they do for yours, and that why my diet is morally
>>>>>>>superior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=============================
>>>>>>ROTFLMAO Says the hypocrite of the month winner.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, says reason.
>>>>
>>>>=====================
>>>>You have no morals to stand on liar.
>>>
>>>I haven't lied by claiming vegetables can grow without our
>>>having to kill animals and use pesticides. You've lied by
>>>claiming they can't grow without those interventions, and
>>>there's the lie. Your shame is urging you to lie about the
>>>vegetarian's food so you can then go on to try and bring
>>>them down to your inferior level by claiming they *have* to
>>>kill animals for their food like you do, and that's just
>>>not going to work. It only reveals more of your shame instead.
>>><cut>

>
> Glad to see you understand that.
>
>>>>>Animals don't *have* to die to produce vegetables
>>>>>and fruits, but your shame compels you to give the
>>>>>impression
>>>>>that they do so that you can then claim that vegetarians
>>>>>also
>>>>>eat a diet that *has* to kill animals. That's not going to
>>>>>work.
>>>>
>>>>================================
>>>>Yes, it does
>>>
>>>No, it doesn't work. All you doing here is proving your shame.

>>
>> ================================
>> Yes, it does

>
> No, it doesn't. No one with any sense can make the claim that
> vegetables can't exist without the use of pesticides and
> killing
> animals - not when ancient forests the size of England are
> taken
> into account proving they can. All you're doing here is showing
> your ignorance and the shame you feel concerning your diet on
> meat.
>
>> because animals die

>
> I've conceded that fact many times during this discussion,

==========================
Only obtusely, and by claiming that they are few/occasinal/etc.
You continue to spew that ly, despite being shown evidence to the
contrary, killer. Why is that? Afraid of the truth?


and I'm
> now waiting to see if you have the courage to concede the fact
> that
> vegetables can be grown without the use of pesticides and
> animal
> killing.

=============================
And, as I have already stated, not in the quantity that you can
live on. Wjhy is that so hard for you to comprehend, fool?
Afraid of the truth?



So far the shame you feel concerning your diet on meat has
> made you deny this fact, even in light of the forest example I
> gave
> you.

================================
The shame and quilt is all from you, that's why you continue to
ly and dishonestly snip every post, hypocrite. Your
protestations tell all about your shame, killer.

Have a nice day hypocrite.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html











  #137 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've graciously accepted your claim that animals
>>>>>>>are occasionally killed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They're killed systematically.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I don't believe that they are,
>>>>
>>>>=========================
>>>>Yes, they are. By the millions upon millions, killer.
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, I don't believe they're that prevalent. If they are, they
>>>needn't be.
>>>=======================

>>
>> Then you can't read afterall.

>
> Non sequitur.
>
>>
>>>> and even if they are they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>don't *have* to be.
>>>>
>>>>===========================
>>>>Yes, they do
>>>
>>>No, they don't have to be. Ancient forests existed before
>>>we arrived killing animals and using pesticides, and many
>>>of these forests contain vegetarian foods, so to claim
>>>vegetable and fruits can't grow unless we kill animals and
>>>use pesticides in light of this forest example is a lie.
>>><cut>
>>>

> Glad you agree, but when are you going to change and stop
> lying to hide your shame, rick? That's the next question.
>
>>>>No animals *have* to die to produce fruit
>>>>>and vegetables, and that's what makes the vegetarian's
>>>>>choice
>>>>>a morally good one. Your diet on meat always entails the
>>>>>intentional killing of animals, whereas my diet on fruit and
>>>>>vegetables doesn't. Our intentions concerning our respective
>>>>>diets are poles apart, and you'll just have to live with
>>>>>your
>>>>>shame like every other meat eater has to.
>>>>
>>>>===========================
>>>>Lying hypocrites have no superiority, fool...
>>>
>>>That's you, Rick: a lying hypocrite. No animals *have* to
>>>die for vegetarians to eat, but your shame surrounding your
>>>diet on meat stops you from publicly admitting it, even when
>>>bearing the forest example in mind. Bringing yourself to admit
>>>that a vegetarian *can* eat without killing animals just kills
>>>you dead with anger and frustration, so you'll keep denying
>>>this
>>>simple fact until the proverbial cows come home, even if it
>>>means
>>>making yourself the village idiot. I've never seen such denial
>>>and blatant stupidity before now, and I've been around a bit,
>>>I
>>>can tell you that.

>>
>> ================================
>> Yes, it does

>
> Yes, what does? Did you think that writing something so vague
> in
> response to my comment somehow relieves you of the
> responsibility
> to answer fully? No animals *have* to die for vegetarians to
> eat,
> but your shame surrounding your diet on meat stops you from
> publicly
> admitting it, even when bearing the forest example in mind.
> Bringing
> yourself to admit that a vegetarian *can* eat without killing
> animals
> just kills you dead with anger and frustration, so you'll keep
> denying
> this simple fact until the proverbial cows come home, even if
> it means
> making yourself the village idiot. I've never seen such denial
> and
> blatant stupidity before now, and I've been around a bit, I can
> tell
> you that.

=================
You post more blatent willful ignorance every post, liar....



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html









  #138 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>><cut>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Explain why forests the size of England
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>can grow without the use of pesticides and animal killing
>>>>>>>while
>>>>>>>apples and sprouts can't. As I've been saying all along,
>>>>>>>"Animals
>>>>>>>don't *have* to die to produce vegetables and fruits, and
>>>>>>>that's
>>>>>>>why my diet is morally superior to yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=================================
>>>>>>Again, where's those fields of wild potatoes, hypocrite...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They're around, so answer the question and explain how
>>>>>forests
>>>>>the size of England can grow without the use of pesticides
>>>>>and
>>>>>killing animals while apples and sprouts can't. As I've been
>>>>>saying all along, animals don't *have* to die in order to
>>>>>grow
>>>>>vegetarian food, and that's why my diet is morally superior
>>>>>to
>>>>>your meat diet.
>>>>
>>>>================
>>>>still dishonestly snipping posts
>>>
>>>Yes. Now answer the question and explain how forests the size
>>>of
>>>England can grow without the use of pesticides and killing
>>>animals
>>>while apples and sprouts can't. As I've been saying all along,
>>>animals don't *have* to die in order to grow vegetarian food,
>>>and
>>>that's why my diet is morally superior to your meat diet.
>>><cut>

>>
>> ================================
>> Yes, they do

>
> I've conceded as much, and now I'm waiting for you to muster
> the
> courage and concede the fact that vegetables can grow without
> killing animals or using pesticides.

=========================
Again, not in the quantities that will keep you alive, killer.


The forest example shows that
> vegetation can exist without our intervention, so I'm using
> this
> opportunity to show the rest how dishonest you are and the
> shame
> you feel concerning your diet on animals.

===================================
Again, where's those vast fields of wild potatoes, hypocrite?


http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html









  #139 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Animals don't have to die in vegetable production.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But they *do*.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Occasionally,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Every day. Normally. Systematically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But they needn't,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wrong, they *must*.
>>>>>
>>>>>Explain how can that be while bearing in mind forest areas
>>>>>the size
>>>>>of England which existed long before we came along killing
>>>>>animals
>>>>>and using pesticides.
>>>>><cut>
>>>>>
>>>No answer for that, eh killer?

>
> Thought so.
>
>>>
>>>>>>>I choose a diet which doesn't mean that animals *have*
>>>>>>>to die for my food
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rhetoric doesn't match reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>The fact that animals don't *have* to die for my food *IS* a
>>>>>reality,
>>>>
>>>>======================
>>>>No, it's your delusion.
>>>
>>>No, it's a reality that you daren't admit is true because your
>>>shame wont allow you.

>>
>> ==========================
>> LOL I have nothing to be shamed of

>
> Then prove it by conceding the simple fact that vegetables can
> be
> grown without the use of pesticides or killing animals? Prove
> it
> by resisting the urge to bring vegetarians down to your level
> by
> claiming they can't eat without killing animals.

================================
You cannot live on veggies without causeing death and suffering
of animals. Too bad your brainwashing woun't allow you to see
the truth. If you could you might make choices that would better
fir the loony claims you make, hypocrite. As it is, as long as
you continue to deny your role in massive animals deaths, you
will continue to make the choices that cause those deaths.



>
>>>>>and while I continue to eat vegetables for ethical reasons,
>>>>>those
>>>>>ethical standards behind my reasons are reached. Unlike you,
>>>>>when I
>>>>>buy my food I don't intend to kill animals. Intent is
>>>>>everything
>>>>>when making moral decisions, and yours is a bad one.
>>>>><cut>
>>>>
>>>>===================
>>>>No fool
>>>
>>>Yes, and you know it, which is why you try to throw sticks at
>>>your
>>>moral superiors. You can't honestly deny the fact that
>>>vegetarians
>>>can eat without killing animals in light of the ancient forest
>>>example I gave you, so it's useless to put off publicly
>>>announcing
>>>this fact any longer. All those you tried to bully here are
>>>waiting
>>>to see if you and usual suspect have the courage to concede
>>>this
>>>simple fact, and so far, all you've done is reveal your shame
>>>by
>>>refusing to.

>>
>> ================================
>> Animals die

>
> They don't have to,

=======================
Yes, they do, to provide the quantity of food you need to live,
hypocrite.

but your shame stops you from conceding that
> simple and obvious fact. Like I said, you can't honestly deny
> the
> fact that vegetarians can eat without killing animals in light
> of
> the ancient forest example I gave you, so it's useless to put
> off
> publicly announcing this fact any longer. All those you tried
> to
> bully here are waiting to see if you and usual suspect have the
> courage to concede this simple fact, and so far all you've done
> is reveal your shame by refusing to.

================================



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html











  #140 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>><cut>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Animals by the millions die in the production of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your veggies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't believe that the numbers are that high,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>============================
>>>>>>>>>>>>Willful ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Then provide evidence pertaining to these numbers and
>>>>>>>>>>>enlighten me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>========================
>>>>>>>>>>ROTFLMAO Why fool? You've been snipping them out all
>>>>>>>>>>night, killer....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Your list of pesticides doesn't include any evidence
>>>>>>>>>apart from
>>>>>>>>>some guesswork by the pesticide manufacturers. That
>>>>>>>>>isn't evidence
>>>>>>>>>of the millions you've claimed exists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>=================================
>>>>>>>>ROTFLMAO Thanks for proving that your dogma requires you
>>>>>>>>to ignore the truth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Guesses aren't truths, and that's all you've supplied to
>>>>>>>back your claim, and that's why your claim is rejected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>==========================
>>>>>>LOL The only guesses are the ones you try to make in
>>>>>>saying that the sites I post don't provide data.
>>>>>
>>>>>They provide data, but they don't support the huge numbers
>>>>>you've
>>>>>claimed. Those sites only make a guess, and guesses aren't
>>>>>facts.
>>>>>Your claim is therefore debunked as a meaningless
>>>>>guestimate.
>>>>
>>>>===================
>>>>I see you didn't read them
>>>
>>>I read the guesses they gave, and their estimates don't
>>>support
>>>the claims you've made. What is your reason for exaggerating
>>>these numbers if not an attempt to drag the vegetarian down to
>>>your level by implying they *have* to kill animals for food
>>>like
>>>you do? You can't even admit the fact that a vegetarian can
>>>eat
>>>without killing animals, so I don't know why you expect them
>>>to
>>>accept anything else you say here.

>>
>> ================================
>> They aren't guesses, killer.
>>

> Yes they are, and I don't regard guesses as fact.

========================
LOL You're only guessing they are because you are afraid to
research the truth, hypocrite. Try reading without you blinders,
killer.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html













  #141 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Something for Chrismas


"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>>><...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've dealt with your repeated list of pesticides a while
>>>>>>>ago
>>>>>>>by telling you that such measures aren't at all necessary
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>grow vegetables,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They *are* necessary
>>>>>
>>>>>No they aren't. Whole forests grow around the world without
>>>>>the
>>>>>use of any pesticides at all, and without our having to kill
>>>>>animals, so to claim that vegetables cannot grow without
>>>>>killing
>>>>>any animals or the use of pesticides is a lie and easily
>>>>>debunked.
>>>>
>>>>========================
>>>>Then do it fool.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've done so already by providing the forest example. If
>>>ancient
>>>forests can exist without our having to kill animals and the
>>>use
>>>of pesticides, then so can other vegetation such as the
>>>vegetables
>>>and fruits I eat.
>>>

> No response to that, eh killer?

===================================
many many times already fool. Forests aren't crops. Now show me
all those fields of wild potatoes you talked about, killer.


>
>>>
>>>>>Your attempt to drag vegetarians down to your level by
>>>>>insisting
>>>>>they kill animals shows you know that the killing of animals
>>>>>is
>>>>>wrong and that what you do is immoral. That's why you're
>>>>>here on
>>>>>a vegetarian board; you want to throw sticks at those who
>>>>>occupy
>>>>>a higher moral status than you.
>>>>
>>>>==========================
>>>>ROTFLMAO Your twisting in the wind
>>>
>>>No, I'm explaining the reason behind your refusal to concede
>>>simple
>>>facts. Publicly admitting the fact that a vegetarian *can* eat
>>>without
>>>killing animals and using pesticides ruins your efforts to
>>>drag them
>>>down to your level, but it's something you must do if you want
>>>to
>>>convince them you have any credibility left at all.
>>><cut>

>>
>> ================================
>> Thanks for again proving that animals are of no concern to you

>
> That desperate little aside doesn't address the points I've
> just made.
> When and where are you going to summon the courage to admit
> that a
> vegetarian *CAN* eat a meal without killing animals, Rick?
> ===========================

You *CANNOT* live on veggies without causeing death to animals.
Too hard for your 2 braincells to understand, killer?


>> You cannot eat without killing animals fool

>
> Of course you can, but your dishonesty isn't going to allow you
> to admit
> that fact because doing so will ruin your efforts to bring
> vegetarians
> down to your animal-killing level. That's all you're here for
> on this
> vegan board: to try and drag the participants down to your
> level. That
> alone shows you realise your level is lower than that of the
> people you
> lie to here.

=======================
More dishonest snipping that proves you have lost, killer.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html









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