"John Deere" > wrote

[..]
>> In the process, she has revealed the fatal flaw in
>> "veganism" and, necessarily, in "vegans" themselves:
>> they don't really believe their absolute claim that
>> killing animals is wrong. Once that claim is
>> effectively abandoned, as this reveals it must be, we
>> see that "veganism" isn't about ethics at all.
>
> You are putting forth a very contrived logical position.

What is contrived about counting the deaths of animals killed in the
production of food? That is essentially the vegan complaint against
meat-eaters

> It's possible that every time I drive north in the night, the
> light from my headlights ultimately ends up proving
> fatal to certain life-forms on an alien planet.
> That does not make me a killer.

Talk about contrived logical positions!

> Even if more
> of these life-forms die than an axe-wielding
> murderer kills, still the axe-wielding murderer
> is a killer, and I am not. If you don't see the
> logic of that, you have no fundamental concept
> of justice. I doubt that, though -- I think you
> do have the necessary fundamental concepts, you
> simply choose to hide them from yourself.

Right back atacha on that one skipper. You cannot explain rationally why I
should count myself responsible for a steer killed so I can eat a hamburger
yet not count myself responsible for a mouse killed so I can eat a
soyburger.

> There is no "logic" in your position, it's merely
> an extremely convoluted self-justification.

Yea, you keeping saying that, but that doesn't make it so.

> Moreover,
> it's clear that your position is deriving from your
> desire to eat meat and reconcile yourself with
> the guilt you feel about it.

That's not clear to me at all. I think he is trying to disabuse vegans of a
false sense of moral superiority.

> Your position is
> not deriving from pure unbiased thought/logic.

Oh yes it is, you are simply incapable of seeing it. People do not
relinquish cherished fantasies easily.

> Pretending strenuously is not going to make
> it so. Sorry.

You should be sorry, you have proclaimed his argument as illogical and
nothing but self-justification, but have not attempted to refute it with any
logic of your own. Contrived stories about aliens and axe-murders won't do.

Begin by explaining why you think it is wrong to kill an animal then eat the
dead body, yet you place no moral weight on killing an animal then letting
it rot in a field.