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Old 16-12-2006, 04:14 PM posted to alt.food.vegan
n n is offline
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Default PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!

Hello!

This is an important post for me. I would like to see your:

ideas
experiences
suggestions
resources

for starting a vegan restaurant.

The restaurant would be a sideline, co-existing with a language school
in the same 3 floor building.

The building is part of a palisade of shops on a side-road. It is 100
meters from the entrance to a university. A coffee shop is on one side
(great coffee!) and a real-estate office the other.

It is quite mind boggling thinking about how to a) start off b) keep
going.

Theme wise, think Hello Kitty. The school is aimed at college girls.
The menu? Dainty cakes, vegan ice-cream, that sort of thing is what is
in mind at the moment, but what do you think?

How to go about pricing/marketing? What about other stuff (that has not
even been considered? How long to keep food that has been made? How to
work out how much to make? How to pick what goes on the menu? Keeping /
developing the menu?

Where do most vegan restaurants go wrong?

btw, this one is in Thailand

I really appreciate your time reading this and hope very much you might
write a few words.
It would be a big help!


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Old 20-12-2006, 06:20 AM posted to alt.food.vegan
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 36
Default PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!

I live in San Diego (USA) and have seen vegan restaurants with GREAT
FOOD go belly up. From my observations, I am of the opinion that the
owners go wrong by trying to do it all themselves, failing to
delegate. Think about it logically, if veganism is to promote
kindness and health, then why would a vegan restaurant owner want to
exploit its few workers or cheap out and fail to hire the necessary
workers? I think you should let the workers run the restaurant and
share the profits. Then, as long as the food is good, it will for
sure thrive. The vegan restaurants I've seen bite the dust didn't
lack for customers. The owners just couldn't stay open regularly
because they were short staffed. Once people show up for dinner to a
closed restaurant, they feel burned, and will stop going. Then the
restaurant dies. Your restaurant must keep regular hours so the
customers will always know when to show up. To keep those hours you
need plenty of happy well compensated workers. I know I wouldn't work
in a restaurant unless I was paid my fair share of the profits. Don't
expect people to work for TIPS only or minimum wage. Your
restaurant's theme will contradict itself (be kind to animals, but
bleed your workers dry?) Sure, big chains like McDeath can stay in
business while exploiting its workers, but that's only because they
draw in the ignorant population. A vegan restaurant would be catered
more to an enlightened crowd.

On 16 Dec 2006 07:14:17 -0800, "n" wrote:

Hello!

This is an important post for me. I would like to see your:

ideas
experiences
suggestions
resources

for starting a vegan restaurant.

The restaurant would be a sideline, co-existing with a language school
in the same 3 floor building.

The building is part of a palisade of shops on a side-road. It is 100
meters from the entrance to a university. A coffee shop is on one side
(great coffee!) and a real-estate office the other.

It is quite mind boggling thinking about how to a) start off b) keep
going.

Theme wise, think Hello Kitty. The school is aimed at college girls.
The menu? Dainty cakes, vegan ice-cream, that sort of thing is what is
in mind at the moment, but what do you think?

How to go about pricing/marketing? What about other stuff (that has not
even been considered? How long to keep food that has been made? How to
work out how much to make? How to pick what goes on the menu? Keeping /
developing the menu?

Where do most vegan restaurants go wrong?

btw, this one is in Thailand

I really appreciate your time reading this and hope very much you might
write a few words.
It would be a big help!


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-12-2006, 11:54 PM posted to alt.food.vegan
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2
Default PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!

* t.racer wrote:
I live in San Diego (USA) and have seen vegan restaurants with GREAT
FOOD go belly up. From my observations, I am of the opinion that the
owners go wrong by trying to do it all themselves, failing to
delegate.


They go belly up because they cater to a tiny niche rather than to
a base wide enough to generate a profit and keep them in business. The
only way a vegan restaurant can stay in business is to be in an
area with a larger-than-average population of vegans and/or
vegetarians.

Think about it logically,


You're incapable of logical thought.

if veganism is to promote
kindness and health,


It isn't. At it's core, veganism is misanthropic.

then why would a vegan restaurant owner want to
exploit its few workers or cheap out and fail to hire the necessary
workers?


Exploitation? How many vegans are there in the US? Vegans are a tiny
subset of the 4% who call themselves vegetarian.

I think you should let the workers run the restaurant and
share the profits.


Socialist delusions. That's why you'd never survive in business. It's
one thing to get input, another to turn your business model over to
wide-eyed zealots whose lack of skills whittle down their job
opportunities -- like doing menial tasks in a "vegan" restaurant.

Then, as long as the food is good, it will for
sure thrive.


Non sequitur. A business thrives when its profits exceed its costs,
and that includes the cost of its labor.

The vegan restaurants I've seen bite the dust didn't
lack for customers.


Neither have meat restaurants, dummy.

The owners just couldn't stay open regularly
because they were short staffed.


The problem is with their whole business model, not simply their
employment practices.

Once people show up for dinner to a
closed restaurant, they feel burned, and will stop going.


They'll also stop going when veganism loses its luster and they
eat normally and sensibly again.

Then the restaurant dies.


Restaurants die when the costs of doing business exceed the
revenue the business generates. Or when said revenues fail to rise
significantly over the costs. No matter how many employees they
hire and how much they pay them, they still have to generate more
money than they spend.

You also have a very short-sighted view of the cost of labor, not
to mention an ambitious approach to giving control to low-skilled
workers. It doesn't merely cost a restaurant minimum wage to
hire someone. The cost of a $15k employee is closer to $25k for
an employer once you add up: actual salary, FICA/social security
contributions, worker's comp (high in food industry), training
costs, hiring costs (ads, time to interview and check out
applications, etc.), state payroll taxes, holidays, etc.

Here's a page with a sample of what an employee actually costs.
http://www.employ-solutions.com/RealCosts.asp

I'm sure you can find other similar information online, or from
even your own employer.

Your restaurant must keep regular hours so the
customers will always know when to show up.


It's the other way around. Your business should be open when
customers are most likely to need your goods and services.

To keep those hours you
need plenty of happy well compensated workers.


No, you don't. I know of restaurants that open only for a lunch
service and a dinner service. They get by with small staffs in
the kitchen and smaller staffs in the service area.

I know I wouldn't work
in a restaurant unless I was paid my fair share of the profits.


Your agreed-to wage IS your fair share of the profits, retard.

Don't expect people to work for TIPS only or minimum wage.


Why not? I've had friends, especially in college, who worked for
tips only. They did very well and only had to work a couple busy
nights a week.

Your
restaurant's theme will contradict itself (be kind to animals, but
bleed your workers dry?)


No, it can only afford to pay people so much because customers like
you will be repelled by the prices they'd have to charge to do
business your way.

Sure, big chains like McDeath can stay in
business while exploiting its workers,


McDonald's profits because their business model isn't based on the
socialist paradigm you described above. Their employees agree to
work for a specific wage -- their fair share of the profits -- and
are given room for advancement within their very large company.
Their starting wage here in Austin is well above the national
minimum wage. Their managers also do very well from their base
salaries AND their profit-sharing plan.

but that's only because they
draw in the ignorant population.


No, and pretty rich coming from YOU -- a twit who doesn't give a
shit about thimgs like supply and demand or profits and losses.

A vegan restaurant would be catered
more to an enlightened crowd.


No, just a crowd of whiny and sanctimonious fools.


On 16 Dec 2006 07:14:17 -0800, "n" wrote:

Hello!

This is an important post for me. I would like to see your:

ideas
experiences
suggestions
resources

for starting a vegan restaurant.

The restaurant would be a sideline, co-existing with a language school
in the same 3 floor building.

The building is part of a palisade of shops on a side-road. It is 100
meters from the entrance to a university. A coffee shop is on one side
(great coffee!) and a real-estate office the other.

It is quite mind boggling thinking about how to a) start off b) keep
going.

Theme wise, think Hello Kitty. The school is aimed at college girls.
The menu? Dainty cakes, vegan ice-cream, that sort of thing is what is
in mind at the moment, but what do you think?

How to go about pricing/marketing? What about other stuff (that has not
even been considered? How long to keep food that has been made? How to
work out how much to make? How to pick what goes on the menu? Keeping /
developing the menu?

Where do most vegan restaurants go wrong?

btw, this one is in Thailand

I really appreciate your time reading this and hope very much you might
write a few words.
It would be a big help!



chico
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Old 02-01-2007, 04:24 AM posted to alt.food.vegan
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 36
Default PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:54:51 -0500, chico wrote:

* t.racer wrote:
I live in San Diego (USA) and have seen vegan restaurants with GREAT
FOOD go belly up. From my observations, I am of the opinion that the
owners go wrong by trying to do it all themselves, failing to
delegate.


They go belly up because they cater to a tiny niche rather than to
a base wide enough to generate a profit and keep them in business. The
only way a vegan restaurant can stay in business is to be in an
area with a larger-than-average population of vegans and/or
vegetarians.


Is that your lay opinion? Is it rationally based upon your own
perception? The restaurant owner (Mr. Yaffe) quoted in the article
below says the opposite and he qualifies as an expert.


http://www.projo.com/news/content/pr...g.3216b8c.html

At this holiday dinner, hold the turkey
The annual Compassionate Thanksgiving dinner, sponsored by Rhode
Island Vegan
Awareness, promotes vegetarianism for reasons of animal rights,
improving the
environment and nonviolence.
01:00 AM EST on Monday, November 20, 2006
By Michelle J. Lee
Journal Environment Writer
WARWICK -- Paul Dumont, a piano tuner from Lincoln, celebrated
Thanksgiving
early yesterday at the Radisson Airport Hotel with a feast of
butternut bisque,
stuffing and potatoes with gravy.
What was missing from his plate was the turkey. Instead, he ate
seitan, a meat
substitute made of wheat gluten.
Dumont became a vegan in 1997 when his older brother sent him a box of
books on
animal rights and health. The books persuaded Dumont to give up meat,
dairy and
other animal-based foods so he and his twin sons can prevent such
problems as
heart disease and high cholesterol.
"It made my life have meaning, not hurting animals and making my
children
healthy," he said. "There's a lot of positive things from it. It makes
my life
fuller."
Dumont was one of 110 people who attended the sixth annual
Compassionate
Thanksgiving held by Rhode Island Vegan Awareness, a group that
promotes a vegan
diet for animal rights, improving the environment and nonviolence.
Elana Kirshenbaum, the president and cofounder of the organization,
held the
Thanksgiving event at her house in 2001.
She noted some vegans and vegetarians might face confrontation when
celebrating
with family members who eat meat. "Thanksgiving can be a stressful
time because
their ethics aren't understood, their values, whatever [reason] they
chose to be
vegetarian," she said. "Sometimes they feel misunderstood and they can
feel
trivialized."
It is difficult to count the number of America vegetarians. One
national poll
this year by the Vegetarian Resource Group estimated about 4.7 million
adults
over 18, roughly 2.3 percent of the population, said they never eat
meat, fish
and poultry.
There are a number of reasons people embrace a vegetarian diet. Some
believe in
animal rights, others choose it for aesthetic or religious reasons.
Still others
choose vegetarianism for environmental reasons because industrial
farms use tons
of grains, thousands of acres and millions of gallons of water to
raise animals.
The farms can produce tons of waste, leading to air, water and land
pollution.
While some may view vegetarianism as a lifestyle, it is more of a
"philosophy
and practice of living in harmony with animals and nature," said Karen
Iacobbo,
a Glocester journalist, cofounder of the online Vegetarian Museum and
coauthor
of two vegetarian books with her husband, Michael.
"Vegetarians had a remarkable influence on society that the community
isn't
aware of," Karen said. She noted that vegetarians were early champions
of ideas
such as preventive medicine, exercise, eating fruits and vegetables,
and
abstaining from drugs and alcohol.
Vegetarianism has been practiced for thousands of years in religions
such as
Buddhism and Jainism. Notable figures such as philosophers Plato and
Pythagoras
were vegetarians.
One of the first famous American vegetarians was Benjamin Franklin,
who gave up
meat for humanitarian reasons and even served a vegetarian meal to
George
Washington, Iacobbo said. However, during a fishing trip off Block
Island,
Franklin was tempted by cod and reverted.
Vegetarians also played a strong role in how Americans eat today. The
man
considered the "father" of American vegetarianism, the Rev. Sylvester
Graham,
promoted "natural hygiene" and advocated using whole wheat in the
1830s. In the
1870s, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg proved Americans didn't need to eat ham
or
sausage for breakfast and developed cereals, Iacobbo said.
Vegetarian food festivals in America date to the 1840s and meat-free
Thanksgivings can be traced to 1895, according to Iacobbos' book .
Nowadays, vegetarianism is more accepted by Americans and even meat
eaters are
willing to try the occasional vegetarian meal. Robert Yaffe, owner of
the
vegetarian Garden Grill Restaurant, in Pawtucket, said about 60 to 70
percent of
his customers aren't vegetarian. "My customers are primarily into
eating
healthy, natural foods, but [are] not necessarily vegetarian," he
said.
The restaurant has offered five-course vegetarian Thanksgiving dinners
since
2003. Last year, the dinner drew 75 people. Yaffe, who worked in the
natural
foods business for 36 years, opened the restaurant partly for
environmental
reasons and to cater to a special niche.
Meatless Thanksgiving can provide a sense of community for vegans such
as Barry
and Chris Brown, of Warren. While the couple celebrate Thanksgiving
with their
own family, which includes vegetarians, they have attended the RIVA
event since
2003 to show solidarity and meet other vegans.
Being vegan made a huge difference for the Browns, who became
vegetarians in
1991 when Barry was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, a type of
cancer. In
1993, they became vegans after watching a film about a chicken farm.
Barry said his cancer has been in remission since 2002, and he credits
his diet.
And Chris changed her career from layout artist to natural foods
educator in
1997.
Chris Brown said events such as Compassion Thanksgiving "brings people
together
and introduces them to healthy eating and changes their minds on what
vegan food
tastes like."
The other benefit of a vegan diet is not worrying about hormones and
food-borne
diseases in meat, Barry said. "There's no such thing as mad tofu
disease," he
joked.
For more information about Rhode Island Vegan Awareness, visit
www.veganawareness.org. For more information about the Vegetarian
Museum, visit
www.vegetarianmuseum.com.
-- Michelle J. Lee is a fellow with the Metcalf Institute for Marine
and
Environmental Reporting.




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