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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!
Hello!
This is an important post for me. I would like to see your: ideas experiences suggestions resources for starting a vegan restaurant. The restaurant would be a sideline, co-existing with a language school in the same 3 floor building. The building is part of a palisade of shops on a side-road. It is 100 meters from the entrance to a university. A coffee shop is on one side (great coffee!) and a real-estate office the other. It is quite mind boggling thinking about how to a) start off b) keep going. Theme wise, think Hello Kitty. The school is aimed at college girls. The menu? Dainty cakes, vegan ice-cream, that sort of thing is what is in mind at the moment, but what do you think? How to go about pricing/marketing? What about other stuff (that has not even been considered? How long to keep food that has been made? How to work out how much to make? How to pick what goes on the menu? Keeping / developing the menu? Where do most vegan restaurants go wrong? btw, this one is in Thailand I really appreciate your time reading this and hope very much you might write a few words. It would be a big help! |
Posted to alt.food.vegan
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PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!
I live in San Diego (USA) and have seen vegan restaurants with GREAT
FOOD go belly up. From my observations, I am of the opinion that the owners go wrong by trying to do it all themselves, failing to delegate. Think about it logically, if veganism is to promote kindness and health, then why would a vegan restaurant owner want to exploit its few workers or cheap out and fail to hire the necessary workers? I think you should let the workers run the restaurant and share the profits. Then, as long as the food is good, it will for sure thrive. The vegan restaurants I've seen bite the dust didn't lack for customers. The owners just couldn't stay open regularly because they were short staffed. Once people show up for dinner to a closed restaurant, they feel burned, and will stop going. Then the restaurant dies. Your restaurant must keep regular hours so the customers will always know when to show up. To keep those hours you need plenty of happy well compensated workers. I know I wouldn't work in a restaurant unless I was paid my fair share of the profits. Don't expect people to work for TIPS only or minimum wage. Your restaurant's theme will contradict itself (be kind to animals, but bleed your workers dry?) Sure, big chains like McDeath can stay in business while exploiting its workers, but that's only because they draw in the ignorant population. A vegan restaurant would be catered more to an enlightened crowd. On 16 Dec 2006 07:14:17 -0800, "n" > wrote: >Hello! > >This is an important post for me. I would like to see your: > >ideas >experiences >suggestions >resources > >for starting a vegan restaurant. > >The restaurant would be a sideline, co-existing with a language school >in the same 3 floor building. > >The building is part of a palisade of shops on a side-road. It is 100 >meters from the entrance to a university. A coffee shop is on one side >(great coffee!) and a real-estate office the other. > >It is quite mind boggling thinking about how to a) start off b) keep >going. > >Theme wise, think Hello Kitty. The school is aimed at college girls. >The menu? Dainty cakes, vegan ice-cream, that sort of thing is what is >in mind at the moment, but what do you think? > >How to go about pricing/marketing? What about other stuff (that has not >even been considered? How long to keep food that has been made? How to >work out how much to make? How to pick what goes on the menu? Keeping / >developing the menu? > >Where do most vegan restaurants go wrong? > >btw, this one is in Thailand > >I really appreciate your time reading this and hope very much you might >write a few words. >It would be a big help! > |
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PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!
* t.racer wrote:
> I live in San Diego (USA) and have seen vegan restaurants with GREAT > FOOD go belly up. From my observations, I am of the opinion that the > owners go wrong by trying to do it all themselves, failing to > delegate. They go belly up because they cater to a tiny niche rather than to a base wide enough to generate a profit and keep them in business. The only way a vegan restaurant can stay in business is to be in an area with a larger-than-average population of vegans and/or vegetarians. > Think about it logically, You're incapable of logical thought. > if veganism is to promote > kindness and health, It isn't. At it's core, veganism is misanthropic. > then why would a vegan restaurant owner want to > exploit its few workers or cheap out and fail to hire the necessary > workers? Exploitation? How many vegans are there in the US? Vegans are a tiny subset of the 4% who call themselves vegetarian. > I think you should let the workers run the restaurant and > share the profits. Socialist delusions. That's why you'd never survive in business. It's one thing to get input, another to turn your business model over to wide-eyed zealots whose lack of skills whittle down their job opportunities -- like doing menial tasks in a "vegan" restaurant. > Then, as long as the food is good, it will for > sure thrive. Non sequitur. A business thrives when its profits exceed its costs, and that includes the cost of its labor. > The vegan restaurants I've seen bite the dust didn't > lack for customers. Neither have meat restaurants, dummy. > The owners just couldn't stay open regularly > because they were short staffed. The problem is with their whole business model, not simply their employment practices. > Once people show up for dinner to a > closed restaurant, they feel burned, and will stop going. They'll also stop going when veganism loses its luster and they eat normally and sensibly again. > Then the restaurant dies. Restaurants die when the costs of doing business exceed the revenue the business generates. Or when said revenues fail to rise significantly over the costs. No matter how many employees they hire and how much they pay them, they still have to generate more money than they spend. You also have a very short-sighted view of the cost of labor, not to mention an ambitious approach to giving control to low-skilled workers. It doesn't merely cost a restaurant minimum wage to hire someone. The cost of a $15k employee is closer to $25k for an employer once you add up: actual salary, FICA/social security contributions, worker's comp (high in food industry), training costs, hiring costs (ads, time to interview and check out applications, etc.), state payroll taxes, holidays, etc. Here's a page with a sample of what an employee actually costs. http://www.employ-solutions.com/RealCosts.asp I'm sure you can find other similar information online, or from even your own employer. > Your restaurant must keep regular hours so the > customers will always know when to show up. It's the other way around. Your business should be open when customers are most likely to need your goods and services. > To keep those hours you > need plenty of happy well compensated workers. No, you don't. I know of restaurants that open only for a lunch service and a dinner service. They get by with small staffs in the kitchen and smaller staffs in the service area. > I know I wouldn't work > in a restaurant unless I was paid my fair share of the profits. Your agreed-to wage IS your fair share of the profits, retard. > Don't expect people to work for TIPS only or minimum wage. Why not? I've had friends, especially in college, who worked for tips only. They did very well and only had to work a couple busy nights a week. > Your > restaurant's theme will contradict itself (be kind to animals, but > bleed your workers dry?) No, it can only afford to pay people so much because customers like you will be repelled by the prices they'd have to charge to do business your way. > Sure, big chains like McDeath can stay in > business while exploiting its workers, McDonald's profits because their business model isn't based on the socialist paradigm you described above. Their employees agree to work for a specific wage -- their fair share of the profits -- and are given room for advancement within their very large company. Their starting wage here in Austin is well above the national minimum wage. Their managers also do very well from their base salaries AND their profit-sharing plan. > but that's only because they > draw in the ignorant population. No, and pretty rich coming from YOU -- a twit who doesn't give a shit about thimgs like supply and demand or profits and losses. > A vegan restaurant would be catered > more to an enlightened crowd. No, just a crowd of whiny and sanctimonious fools. > On 16 Dec 2006 07:14:17 -0800, "n" > wrote: > >>Hello! >> >>This is an important post for me. I would like to see your: >> >>ideas >>experiences >>suggestions >>resources >> >>for starting a vegan restaurant. >> >>The restaurant would be a sideline, co-existing with a language school >>in the same 3 floor building. >> >>The building is part of a palisade of shops on a side-road. It is 100 >>meters from the entrance to a university. A coffee shop is on one side >>(great coffee!) and a real-estate office the other. >> >>It is quite mind boggling thinking about how to a) start off b) keep >>going. >> >>Theme wise, think Hello Kitty. The school is aimed at college girls. >>The menu? Dainty cakes, vegan ice-cream, that sort of thing is what is >>in mind at the moment, but what do you think? >> >>How to go about pricing/marketing? What about other stuff (that has not >>even been considered? How long to keep food that has been made? How to >>work out how much to make? How to pick what goes on the menu? Keeping / >>developing the menu? >> >>Where do most vegan restaurants go wrong? >> >>btw, this one is in Thailand >> >>I really appreciate your time reading this and hope very much you might >>write a few words. >>It would be a big help! >> > chico |
Posted to alt.food.vegan
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PLEASE HELP! Starting a vegan restaurant!
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:54:51 -0500, chico > wrote:
>* t.racer wrote: >> I live in San Diego (USA) and have seen vegan restaurants with GREAT >> FOOD go belly up. From my observations, I am of the opinion that the >> owners go wrong by trying to do it all themselves, failing to >> delegate. > >They go belly up because they cater to a tiny niche rather than to >a base wide enough to generate a profit and keep them in business. The >only way a vegan restaurant can stay in business is to be in an >area with a larger-than-average population of vegans and/or >vegetarians. Is that your lay opinion? Is it rationally based upon your own perception? The restaurant owner (Mr. Yaffe) quoted in the article below says the opposite and he qualifies as an expert. http://www.projo.com/news/content/pr...g.3216b8c.html At this holiday dinner, hold the turkey The annual Compassionate Thanksgiving dinner, sponsored by Rhode Island Vegan Awareness, promotes vegetarianism for reasons of animal rights, improving the environment and nonviolence. 01:00 AM EST on Monday, November 20, 2006 By Michelle J. Lee Journal Environment Writer WARWICK -- Paul Dumont, a piano tuner from Lincoln, celebrated Thanksgiving early yesterday at the Radisson Airport Hotel with a feast of butternut bisque, stuffing and potatoes with gravy. What was missing from his plate was the turkey. Instead, he ate seitan, a meat substitute made of wheat gluten. Dumont became a vegan in 1997 when his older brother sent him a box of books on animal rights and health. The books persuaded Dumont to give up meat, dairy and other animal-based foods so he and his twin sons can prevent such problems as heart disease and high cholesterol. "It made my life have meaning, not hurting animals and making my children healthy," he said. "There's a lot of positive things from it. It makes my life fuller." Dumont was one of 110 people who attended the sixth annual Compassionate Thanksgiving held by Rhode Island Vegan Awareness, a group that promotes a vegan diet for animal rights, improving the environment and nonviolence. Elana Kirshenbaum, the president and cofounder of the organization, held the Thanksgiving event at her house in 2001. She noted some vegans and vegetarians might face confrontation when celebrating with family members who eat meat. "Thanksgiving can be a stressful time because their ethics aren't understood, their values, whatever [reason] they chose to be vegetarian," she said. "Sometimes they feel misunderstood and they can feel trivialized." It is difficult to count the number of America vegetarians. One national poll this year by the Vegetarian Resource Group estimated about 4.7 million adults over 18, roughly 2.3 percent of the population, said they never eat meat, fish and poultry. There are a number of reasons people embrace a vegetarian diet. Some believe in animal rights, others choose it for aesthetic or religious reasons. Still others choose vegetarianism for environmental reasons because industrial farms use tons of grains, thousands of acres and millions of gallons of water to raise animals. The farms can produce tons of waste, leading to air, water and land pollution. While some may view vegetarianism as a lifestyle, it is more of a "philosophy and practice of living in harmony with animals and nature," said Karen Iacobbo, a Glocester journalist, cofounder of the online Vegetarian Museum and coauthor of two vegetarian books with her husband, Michael. "Vegetarians had a remarkable influence on society that the community isn't aware of," Karen said. She noted that vegetarians were early champions of ideas such as preventive medicine, exercise, eating fruits and vegetables, and abstaining from drugs and alcohol. Vegetarianism has been practiced for thousands of years in religions such as Buddhism and Jainism. Notable figures such as philosophers Plato and Pythagoras were vegetarians. One of the first famous American vegetarians was Benjamin Franklin, who gave up meat for humanitarian reasons and even served a vegetarian meal to George Washington, Iacobbo said. However, during a fishing trip off Block Island, Franklin was tempted by cod and reverted. Vegetarians also played a strong role in how Americans eat today. The man considered the "father" of American vegetarianism, the Rev. Sylvester Graham, promoted "natural hygiene" and advocated using whole wheat in the 1830s. In the 1870s, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg proved Americans didn't need to eat ham or sausage for breakfast and developed cereals, Iacobbo said. Vegetarian food festivals in America date to the 1840s and meat-free Thanksgivings can be traced to 1895, according to Iacobbos' book . Nowadays, vegetarianism is more accepted by Americans and even meat eaters are willing to try the occasional vegetarian meal. Robert Yaffe, owner of the vegetarian Garden Grill Restaurant, in Pawtucket, said about 60 to 70 percent of his customers aren't vegetarian. "My customers are primarily into eating healthy, natural foods, but [are] not necessarily vegetarian," he said. The restaurant has offered five-course vegetarian Thanksgiving dinners since 2003. Last year, the dinner drew 75 people. Yaffe, who worked in the natural foods business for 36 years, opened the restaurant partly for environmental reasons and to cater to a special niche. Meatless Thanksgiving can provide a sense of community for vegans such as Barry and Chris Brown, of Warren. While the couple celebrate Thanksgiving with their own family, which includes vegetarians, they have attended the RIVA event since 2003 to show solidarity and meet other vegans. Being vegan made a huge difference for the Browns, who became vegetarians in 1991 when Barry was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, a type of cancer. In 1993, they became vegans after watching a film about a chicken farm. Barry said his cancer has been in remission since 2002, and he credits his diet. And Chris changed her career from layout artist to natural foods educator in 1997. Chris Brown said events such as Compassion Thanksgiving "brings people together and introduces them to healthy eating and changes their minds on what vegan food tastes like." The other benefit of a vegan diet is not worrying about hormones and food-borne diseases in meat, Barry said. "There's no such thing as mad tofu disease," he joked. For more information about Rhode Island Vegan Awareness, visit www.veganawareness.org. For more information about the Vegetarian Museum, visit www.vegetarianmuseum.com. -- Michelle J. Lee is a fellow with the Metcalf Institute for Marine and Environmental Reporting. |
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