Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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Old 07-07-2005, 05:45 AM
Melinda
 
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Default Something I've noticed about greens

I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it. When
I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever it's
fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or whatever) but
as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a straw color. It's
really interesting. I can tell my tea is cooled off by the color.

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter



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Old 07-07-2005, 09:45 AM
Nigel
 
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This is due to chemical oxidation of the green tea catechins into
orange theaflavin - while the tea is sitting in your cup it reacts with
oxygen dissoved in the water - same reaction as would happen to make
black tea in a tea factory except that then it is catalysed by natural
tea enzymes. Some green teas do this more than others: I suspect that
using freshly drawn water also increases the rate of browning.

Nigel at Teacraft

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Old 07-07-2005, 02:42 PM
Melinda
 
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That's very interesting Nigel...does that mean, do you suppose, that when
drinking green tea for it's health benefits, it would be better to drink it
while it is still hot? I don't know if the catechins are better for one's
health than the theaflavin...both are antioxidants aren't they?

Thanks for the info!

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter
"Nigel" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is due to chemical oxidation of the green tea catechins into
orange theaflavin - while the tea is sitting in your cup it reacts with
oxygen dissoved in the water - same reaction as would happen to make
black tea in a tea factory except that then it is catalysed by natural
tea enzymes. Some green teas do this more than others: I suspect that
using freshly drawn water also increases the rate of browning.

Nigel at Teacraft



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Old 07-07-2005, 02:47 PM
Melinda
 
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That's also possible Michael, but if I overbrew my greens in hot water it
still doesn't turn brown until it cools. You're right about the fine bits
though...I get a lot of the fine hairs from the leaf surface in my tea but I
figure that's a good thing. I don't actually deliberately wait until my tea
is cold to drink it, but sometimes it gets forgotten. Unless I'm making iced
green tea that is. It goes without saying that hot green tea and green tea
that's been forgotten and left to cool taste different...I definitely don't
get the depth of flavor with the cooled-off tea.

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter
"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...


Melinda,

I would go further and guess that the color change indicates that little
bits of stuff is floating around, continuing to brew, and ruining the
taste
as well as the color of your green tea. This sometimes cannot be helped.
those bits are small enough to be unstrainable.

Michael





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Old 07-07-2005, 03:15 PM
crymad
 
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Melinda wrote:

It goes without saying that hot green tea and green tea that's
been forgotten and left to cool taste different...I definitely
don't get the depth of flavor with the cooled-off tea.


What greens are we talking about? As a rule, I let my Japanese
greens cool down a minute or so after brewing before consuming.
Even though brewed at temps in the 160F range, this heat still can
overwhelm the delicacy of the tea if drunk immediately after
pouring in the cup.

--crymad
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:42 PM
pilo_
 
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In article ,
"Melinda" wrote:

I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it. When
I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever it's
fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or whatever) but
as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a straw color.


Sometimes I'll make a small pot of green and keep it on my
desk on a little holder with a tealight candle underneath to
keep it warm. If any tea stays in the pot longer than about
an hour, the same thing happens - it turns darker and the
taste changes markedly. I'm not sure if this effect is a function
of cooling or something else......................................p*
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Old 07-07-2005, 04:01 PM
Lewis Perin
 
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"Melinda" writes:

I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it. When
I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever it's
fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or whatever) but
as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a straw color. It's
really interesting. I can tell my tea is cooled off by the color.


Hmm, this is something I haven't noticed myself. Maybe I just don't
pay close enough attention, but could you describe how you make green tea?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
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Old 07-07-2005, 04:05 PM
Lewis Perin
 
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"Nigel" writes:

This is due to chemical oxidation of the green tea catechins into
orange theaflavin - while the tea is sitting in your cup it reacts with
oxygen dissoved in the water - same reaction as would happen to make
black tea in a tea factory except that then it is catalysed by natural
tea enzymes.


So hot water can substitute for the enzymes destroyed by the firing of
green tea?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
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Old 07-07-2005, 05:12 PM
Lewis Perin
 
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"Nigel" writes:

This is due to chemical oxidation of the green tea catechins into
orange theaflavin - while the tea is sitting in your cup it reacts with
oxygen dissoved in the water - same reaction as would happen to make
black tea in a tea factory except that then it is catalysed by natural
tea enzymes. Some green teas do this more than others: I suspect that
using freshly drawn water also increases the rate of browning.


While I haven't noticed a color change as the cup cools, I have often
found that green tea liquor loses astringency and gains sweetness as
it cools. Could this be a catechin-theaflavin effect?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html


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Old 07-07-2005, 09:25 PM
DPM
 
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"Melinda" wrote in message
...
I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it.

When
I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever

it's
fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or whatever)

but
as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a straw color.

It's
really interesting. I can tell my tea is cooled off by the color.

Melinda,

I've noticed something similar, but it usually takes hours. I will
occasionally make a pot of green tea in the afternoon at work; I drink the
first infusion that afternoon, then make a second infusion and leave it till
the next morning. Even after reheating it in a microwave I notice that the
color usually has darkened and the flavor has changed. In some cases it
seems more "oolong-like", and I attributed the change to slow oxidation
overnight.

Some teas seem to benefit from this treatment - I've had Darjeelings that I
thought improved the second day. Others, like very fresh greens, seem to
lose their brightness (no surprise, I guess). Most black teas seem to show
little discernable change, which favors the slow-oxidation theory.

Regards,
Dean



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Old 07-07-2005, 10:22 PM
WJ van den Berg
 
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I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it. When
I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever it's
fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or whatever) but
as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a straw color. It's
really interesting. I can tell my tea is cooled off by the color.


I have been told by my 'supplier' that you should soak green tea in a
small quantity of cold/lukewarm water for a short while before adding
boiling water. It would prevent the bitterness some greens have.

Wouter
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Old 08-07-2005, 12:40 AM
Melinda
 
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I am referring to sencha but mostly to the various Chinese greens that I've
been drinking (Kaihua Long Ding, Long Jing, etc.) And when I say "cool down"
I mean room temp...I've left the glass for probably a good 30 minutes or
longer.

As far as the delicacy for Japanese greens goes, I'm afraid my experience
and tastes don't favor those (though I do drink them) so I could easily be
missing subtlety there. I usually drink genmai cha if I'm going to drink a
Japanese green. But if I do recall correctly I've seen that turn browner as
it cools as well.

People can try this at home! (how's that for a switch...) brew a glass of
green tea of your choice and note the color and then let it sit for a couple
of hours and then take a look. But look at it in a clear glass.

Melinda


What greens are we talking about? As a rule, I let my Japanese
greens cool down a minute or so after brewing before consuming.
Even though brewed at temps in the 160F range, this heat still can
overwhelm the delicacy of the tea if drunk immediately after
pouring in the cup.

--crymad



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Old 08-07-2005, 12:47 AM
Melinda
 
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I may do a standard steep (4 grams in 300 ml of water at say 155-165 for
about 45 sec the first time...depends on the tea). But I also at times do
multiple successive steeps and pour them off into a larger glass pot which
will go to my desk with me.

in order to see this it is important to use glass.

Also, good point from pilo...I have assumed it was from cooling because I
don't use a tea light and all my tea cools off...I just assumed it was
because of the lowering of temp. It could be a function of time for all I
know though. I don't reheat my greens in the microwave, though I don't know
what difference that would make if the change had already occured. Unless
the change were a result of something "precipitating" out as the tea cooled
which would go back into solution presumably when the tea was reheated.

Melinda


"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
"Melinda" writes:

I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it.
When
I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever
it's
fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or whatever)
but
as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a straw color.
It's
really interesting. I can tell my tea is cooled off by the color.


Hmm, this is something I haven't noticed myself. Maybe I just don't
pay close enough attention, but could you describe how you make green tea?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html



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Old 08-07-2005, 05:47 AM
Marlene Wood
 
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I've noticed this with blacks too. Especially yunnan gold. I'll be
distracted half way through a pot, and when I come back an hour or so later,
and the dark amber will have changed to almost coffee black.
Marlene

I have noticed this for a while now but never thought to comment on it.
When I brew a green, when it's still hot/warm, the liquor is still whatever
it's fresh-brewed original color was (light green or blue-green or
whatever) but as the liquor cools off, it turns to more of a brown or a
straw color. It's really interesting. I can tell my tea is cooled off by
the color.

Melinda





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